People who continue to say that people will be jailed for not having insurance should be BANNED.

[BzaDem]

I'm sure people who continue to post that the Democratic plan has death panels would be banned. Why should that falsehood be any different than this one?

If you don't have insurance (and you CAN afford it), you get a tax of 2.5% or 1500, whichever is smaller. That is the only penalty for not having insurance. This is the same thing as raising everyone's taxes by 2.5% and then giving people a tax credit for that amount if you have health insurance (or can't afford it).

If you don't pay any of your taxes, you then go to jail. What a surprise! This has been around for decades.

If you don't pay part of your taxes because you don't agree with the Iraq war, you go to jail.

If you don't pay part of your taxes because you don't agree with the bailout, you also go to jail.

There are valid liberal reasons for being against the mandate. I personally disagree with them all, but at least they are legitimate reasons that should be debated. But saying that you will go to jail if you don't purchase health insurance is a FALSEHOOD and the people peddling it should stop, just as people peddling "death panels" should stop.

If this post breaks any rules then feel free to lock.

[ProleNoMore]

1. We Are Told That Insurance Will Now Be A Mandate - No Payee, Then Jail

Ban Away!

[BzaDem]

2. You can say that, but it is no more true than "DEATH PANELS."

If you want to act like Sarah Palin then go right ahead.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kahuna]

7. I guess you believe there will be Obama Death Panels too, huh?

:eyes:

[bbinacan]

4. What happened to the no tax

pledge? Remember, anyone making less than 250k.

[BzaDem]

5. Fine. He violates the pledge. He already violated it with the tabacco tax. That is NOT the same

as jailing people who don't have health insurance. If you want to debate whether he violated his campaign promises, then go right ahead. It is good to hold elected officials accountable.

But that is VERY different than completely misrepresenting the law.

[ncteechur]

9. How is a tobacco tax a violation of that pledge?

[BzaDem]

17. It is a tax that hits people who make less than 250,000...

or did I misread it?

[bbinacan]

32. It's a tax that hits those of us

making under 250k. What's so hard to understand?:smoke:

[Obamanaut]

46. The tobacco tax only affects those who smoke. The only way to

make it the same as a health insurance tax is to mandate smoking for everyone.

Don't smoke, no tax

Don't buy insurance, pay a penalty

What's so hard to understand?

[bbinacan]

47. I was told NO NEW TAXES

on ANYONE making below 250k.

[BzaDem]

53. I didn't see you complaining in Feb. 2009

when SCHIP was paid for with the tabacco tax, which definately affects people who make less than 250,000. So forgive me for being skeptical.

[bbinacan]

58. I was complaining. n/t

[bbinacan]

34. Sorry to get off topic

but I'm in a mood about politicians in general. Obama pledges no new taxes and no mandates. Well guess what.

[ncteechur]

6. Have we departed from that? How?

[bbinacan]

14. You're kidding right?

see the OP and #9

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

8. So it's a new tax on people making less than $250K??? Think before getting on your high horse

Your epic point here is that the bill breaks Obama's most fundamental campaign pledge?

Really, this talking point is worse than useless.

[BzaDem]

12. Yes, it is. I don't care. If we want to debate campaign promises, that is a good debate to have.

But peddling falsehoods about "jail" is bullshit.

[inna]

36. It is effectively a massive regressive back-door tax. nt

[truedelphi]

10. Sorry to have to rain on your parade, but the 2.5% refers to the PENALTY!

And along with that penalty comes a five year jail term (Well, I admit that is the max, but how many people wanna do any time in jail.)

I admit the legalese is confounding, but ifyou read it morecarefully you will see you have not gotten the fuller more correct picture.

[BzaDem]

13. That is an absolute LIE.

The 2.5% penalty does NOT come with jail time. The jail time is if you do not pay your full tax bill, including your penalty and any other taxes you have.

[MercutioATC]

11. People will be jailed for not having insurance.

Have at me.

[BzaDem]

15. Again, you can say that, just as Sarah Palin can talk about death panels.

It doesn't really add much to the discourse though to be indistinguishable from Sarah Palin.

[MercutioATC]

21. Perhaps I was obtuse.

Of course, people won't be jailed for not having health insurance.

I'm not arguing that fact, I'm opining that your OP is ridiculous.

[BzaDem]

23. Oh. Well I still think that if people posted about death panels, they would eventually be banned.

Maybe there is a difference between the two falsehoods. But they are both still falsehoods.

[MercutioATC]

30. You seem to be carrying a big "Ban 'Em" standard...

You DO realize that this place doesn't work that way, right?

[BzaDem]

33. I see people banned all the time who come and post lying freeper talking points.

Maybe there is a distinction. Maybe once you are here long enough you can post anything you want. But it is not unheard of by a long shot.

[MercutioATC]

40. I've had differences with the admins.

For whatever reason (I'm betting that it has something to do with their appreciation for differing opinons) I'm still here.

Regardless, it's silly (and repressive) to suggest that people who don't toe the party line get banned.

[republicansarewhores]

18. The irony being

When in jail they will get government paid health care!

RAW

[ncteechur]

19. Do you have health insurance? Do you not want health insurance?

[MercutioATC]

24. Relax.

I'm just addressing a silly OP.

[greennina]

16. Call it a tax is BAD!

Why are you trying to make the Party look bad by calling it a tax like that? Associating it with taxes is bad, bad, bad. Stop that.

[BzaDem]

20. It is a tax. It is collected by the IRS. At least that is a true statement, unlike

the statement about "jail."

[greennina]

22. No one is claiming jail time.

Not a single person. You're just making-up crap because you can't defend yourself any other way.

The problem is that you can end-up in prison if you can't afford to pay this new tax. That's the problem. This is bringing back debtor prisons.

[Unvanguard]

28. You can end up in prison if you "can't afford to pay" any tax. n/t

[BzaDem]

29. Are you kidding?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6955256&mesg_id=6955256

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6963649

They aren't saying people will be jailed if they don't pay the fine. They are saying that people will be fined AND jailed for not getting health insurance.

And there are even people who say this in this very thread.

The tax is a percentage of your income. It cannot exceed your income (or even 2.5% of your income). If Congress raised everyone's taxes by 2.5%, would you claim that that is bringing back "debtor's prisons?" I would hope not.

[greennina]

35. NO ONE IS SAYING JAIL!

You're the one saying jail.

The penalty is prison.

[greennina]

31. No one is claiming jail time.

Not a single person. You're just making-up crap because you can't defend yourself any other way.

The problem is that you can end-up in prison if you can't afford to pay this new tax. That's the problem. This is bringing back debtor prisons.

[Xenotime]

59. Good point. Thank you.

[Hello_Kitty]

25. Just as soon as they start banning anti-choicers and rape-apologists. eom

[paulsby]

26. if you banned people merely for repeating falsehoods

everybody here would be banned...

except me of course :)

[kenny blankenship]

27. Yeah, people who continue to say that should be thrown in JAIL!

How dare they slander us!

[Waiting For Everyman]

37. You really like that idea of forcing others to behave as you want "or else", don't you?

Maybe this Congress ought to try harder at coming up with health insurance that people WANT to buy into, insurance that people feel is worth it - maybe then they'd do just that. That might be a thought.

If people have to be forced to buy this, then there is no legitimate marketplace or choice. Addressing consumers' wants and needs becomes even more irrelevant, and so are unlimited costs. But that's ok because then we'll have not universal coverage but near-universal unacceptable coverage. Great improvement! More people will be forced to pay way too much for not nearly enough. Yay us!

[Autumn]

38. It's worse than jail or prison, you have

to deal with the IRS, if you don't buy insurance and get fined.

[spotbird]

39. What happens to people who refuse to

pay taxes?

[NoPasaran]

42. They get locked in an iron box with spikes on the inside

[spotbird]

49. Do you know what happens to people

who don't pay their taxes? You act like you don't. Maybe there are people that ill informed and you're one of them?

[HughMoran]

41. The suggested punishment that you've recommended is rather extreme

...but your point is well taken. I'm not sure how repeating Fox-style talking points is good for anybody here.

[Stinky The Clown]

43. Unrec

You favor censorship, do you?

Maybe YOU should be banned for not supporting Democratic principles or some such bullshit.

[scheming daemons]

45. People have been tombstoned at DU for propagating GOP talking points for 8 years...

...why should this particular talking point be different?

It's just as false as all the others...

[spotbird]

50. Just answer the simple question

What happens to those who willfully refuse to pay the fine.

[scheming daemons]

44. It's a GOP talking point that is FALSE... those continuing to say it are propagating a LIE

[TexasObserver]

48. Oh, hell. Why not just make it anyone who disagrees with you about anything?!

Why settle for a purge on only one basis?

[BzaDem]

51. This isn't an opinion that is debatable. This is a fact. People are either lying about it or not.

[MajorChode]

54. There's a difference between being wrong and lying

Lying implies willful deception. Some aren't smart enough to know they are carrying the wingnuts' torch.

[TexasObserver]

55. I know, that's your story and you're sticking to it.

I'd go for banning posters who start threads calling to ban other posters.

Your desire for censorship is much more dangerous than any of those you attack for their opinions.

[MajorChode]

52. I'm not for banishment, but they sure are going to feel stupid when they finally read the bill

Or not. Some people are just used to screaming bullshit at the top of their lungs and being wrong doesn't seem to phase them anymore.

[Shagbark Hickory]

56. In order to get your healthcare, you must first check into the big house.

Read the fine print.

[Individualist]

57. If you're so hot to ban people, start your own damn website.