Dennis = Nader.

[BzaDem]

Of course, there will always be some who learn all the wrong lessons from this, and would thank Dennis for being like Nader. I'm just so happy that all of these people got steamrolled over tonight. Nader might have been able to delay healthcare reform for 9 years, but his doppelgänger wasn't able to kill it forever.

[Truth2Tell]

1. Heathcare reform just got delayed a lot longer than 9 years. nt

[BzaDem]

3. I am so, so happy that you and people who support your position failed tonight.

I am very happy that healthcare reform passed. I am also happy that you failed for the sake of you failing.

While people like you may be able to whine on a message board, today's vote showed the perpetual failure that you are in actually affecting and killing legislation. You would make Nader proud, which is why the failure of your movement is so important to the future of this country. Keep it up.

[Truth2Tell]

5. Just curious,

if Obama shit in your hand and called it healthcare reform, would that still be a victory?

[BzaDem]

8. Nope. And anyone who calls this "shit in a can" either is uneducated or lying.

I'll let you pick.

[Truth2Tell]

12. Not a can. Your hand.

Because this victory is for you. The champagne corks are popping in the private lounges at the top of those Big Pharma and Insurance Industry skyscrapers tonight. Are you there celebrating with your allies?

[BzaDem]

13. Quick question: If there were a bill that helped the uninsured AND helped those of Big Pharma

would you support it or kill it?

This bill does not do both; it helps the uninsured without making Big Pharma/Big Insurance celebrate. After all, they are opposed to the bill and will no longer be able to deny coverage or impose lifetime caps.

But let's say, for the sake of argument, that this bill both covered the uninsured and helped both industries. And let's say it is the only bill that could pass.

Why is it even a legitimate position in this situation for someone on DU to be against this bill? How is it OK to be a Democrat and simultaneously say "screw the people as long as we are also screwing big pharma"?

[Truth2Tell]

18. Because this bill does more harm than good.

It may help a small number of uninsured, but it will guarantee that the majority of the uninsured remain that way, likely for the remainder of their lives. It is a net negative for people who need insurance and healthcare in America. And if you really believe the insurance industry opposes this bill, I've got a bridge to sell you.

[NYC_SKP]

50. Can't tell, haven't read it. We're all just relying on others' opinions.

And they haven't read it either.

[spoony]

7. Hmm, seems like you're more happy about the "failure"

of people you consider opponents than you are about the passage of the bill. We didn't need DK's vote on this, so what's with the obsession?

[BzaDem]

11. I believe the DKers are parasites to our party.

If we lose a vote on healthcare reform because Republicans and conservadems beat us, that just means we need to work harder next time to defeat the conservadems and Republicans. But there is a special place for people who run as a liberal Democrat and then vote to defeat our highest priority in the past century. These people need to be primaried and ejected from Congress just as much anyone else in our party that would kill healthcare reform.

[Sebastian Doyle]

19. Allow me to correct the typo in your last post.....

I believe the DLCers are parasites to our party.

Ok, now it reads accurately.

[SammyWinstonJack]

53. +1

[madrchsod]

24. i am a parasite?

so sorry i did`t pass your du purity test....

i guess i`ll find out about just how bad that government funded medicare insurance when i`m eligible in two years

[Desertrose]

26. Are you for real? PARASITES!

Wow. No wonder Dems never get anything done. Too busy turning on each other.

[BzaDem]

27. Why bother having a "liberal" Democrat in the caucus when they don't vote with Democrats?

The two biggest pieces of legislation Obama ran on were climate change and healthcare. He has voted against both. What makes him ANY different than a Blue Dog who voted against both, or a Republican who voted against both?

DK comes from a very liberal district. That district could elect a real Democrat. One that actually votes with the Democrats. DK almost lost his seat due to a primary challenge from someone who as actually willing to vote for the Democratic agenda. Hopefully he will actually lose his seat next time.

[Desertrose]

28. What good does it do to vote with Dems if

their legislation doesn't help the people they are supposed to be representing?

Is this all to support the Dems (who don't support me) or Americans?

What good is a "party" if it doesn't represent the people?

Sure the interests of the rich are always taken care of...but what about those of us who can't afford to buy influence? Guess we don't count.

[BzaDem]

31. I don't know who you are. But it regardless of what you might or might not say

the bill helps millions and millions of people. I don't know about you, but to me, this bill isn't about "me, me, me." It is about the millions of uninsured who will now be insured with part or full subsidy by the federal government.

You of course may proceed to railing against the idea of private insurance, which is an idea that might very well deserve to be railed against. But people who need an operation don't care about that battle. They care about whether they can get the operation. And they will be able to under this bill.

[Truth2Tell]

34. More millions will be left out of this bill.

And their chances of relief in their lifetimes have been reduced dramatically by this bill. I'm glad millions will be insured (maybe) now, but it's still a net loss overall.

[bluetrain]

58. Over half of the country is left out of this bill.

[Desertrose]

52. Does this benefit everyone? It will help some of course...but

what about the millions it will NOT help? The ones who need it most? What about them?
Do we smile and say well, we did the best we could and go on like its ok to exclude some people?


Single payer would cover EVERYONE.

[Xicano]

36. Using your own logic

Obama is no different than a repub. After all didn't Obama vote for Bush's requests for more Iraq funding? Didn't Obama reject Kucinich's call to impeach Bush? Didn't Obama vote yes on Bush's FISA crap, etc, etc?

Obama is a Bush light Wall Street puppet.

[Le Taz Hot]

49. "The highest priority in the past century?"

You've never actually READ history, have you?

[quakerboy]

60. If there is a "special place" for people who run as dems, then vote to defeat

our highest priority in the past century, I'm pretty sure every dem but one is headed there at this point. I suppose time will tell. I wonder what the final bill will look like. If there is a final bill.

[donheld]

16. +!

[Aramchek]

2. and he accomplishes about as much

[Jennicut]

4. Not really. Nader wouldn't even support Gore for the election.

Dennis never supported another party for winning the election in 2008.
He is naive however, in thinking we would miraculously get something better if only we waited or "started over".

[bertman]

6. I love Dennis!! Nader too.

[Electric Monk]

9. IBTL

[Enrique]

10. Dennis's vote didn't have the consequences that Nader's run did

it's very possible that if his vote would have made the difference he would have voted for reform.

[Individualist]

14. Damn the DLC!

[Oregone]

15. I prefer both to many corprotists Dems

Go figure

[BzaDem]

17. And as you said in another thread, you have insurance and this bill wouldn't help you.

So I am not surprised.

[Oregone]

22. As I said in another thread, I'm not desperate for shit as a Stockholm victim

Perspective: it's what's for dinner

[quakerboy]

61. How about me

I don't have insurance, and this bill wouldn't help me either, from what I have read thus far. And while I wish Nader would get his act together, I think DK was probably right on this one, and that you are certainly wrong.

[seabeyond]

20. ego wins for these two. nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

21. Bravo for both men of integrity rather than cheaply bought politicians.

[madrchsod]

25. yes it amazes me just how cheaply they sell us out.

give them a million and get back hundreds of millions...hell billions.

[HughMoran]

23. = ego

Sadly, the truth is unavoidable here.

[MajorChode]

29. Dennis isn't fit to shine Nader's shoes

Although I don't really care much for Nader the politician, he made his bones as a political activist and consumer advocate well before he ever even attempted to enter any political races. Dennis has been a perennial candidate for something or a professional politician for almost his entire adult life.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dana_b]

32. that's the second time I've seen you use that word

"dittocrat". I like it!

[SammyWinstonJack]

54. It's a good one!

dittocrat

[BzaDem]

33. At least I'm not willing to let 40,000 die every year just because the bill doesn't punish

insurance companies as much as I want.

[MajorChode]

39. That's why I want to know what these people are smoking...

if they believe nothing is better than this bill.

Even if you have a complete lack of the mental faculties for empathy and can dismiss the 40K or so that die because they don't have insurance, just how in the hell do they figure insurance companies WON'T continue to rape the consumer? Health care costs are already about 17.5% of GDP and over the next 10 years it's projected to rise north of 50% more than the rise in GDP. So the insurance companies continue to get richer anyway while even more people die and more people are destroyed financially. The only thing I can come up with is either they are only interested in what's in it for them (kinda sounds like freeper thinking, no?) or they just blindly follow whatever the fuck the almighty Dennis tells them. I'm not sure which is worse.

[Fading Captain]

43. I'm originally from Canada. People there *knew* what victory was

This is garbage.

[Inuca]

38. Absolutely. That's why the insurance

industry loves it so much and threw its full support behind it.

Just in case:

[Fading Captain]

44. Trust me, if the insurance industry was 100 percent against this

They'd have sent their marching orders.

And I bet anything this thing is made worse in the Senate.

The problem is, Democrats love the sound of the voice when they're talking like capitalists.

They don't talk about health reform like it's a health issue. They talk about it like they are republicans. They are going to create EXCHANGES, they are going to create COMPETITION, they are going to make sure this pays for itself.

LOL. What a fucking joke.

Shell out the tax dollars, because that's what it takes for reform that actually helps people. But this new era of Democrat is more interested in Clinton's supposed "surplus" then they are about helping people.

[Go2Peace]

35. You really believe this is "Reform"?

It is a regulatory bill and a social program. I think we should get real here. If it remains as is it should pass. But it should be seen as a terrible compromise.

Our representatives gave corporations special access and many listened to them more than either the people or their conscience.

Something tells me DU has been invated by washington insiders.

[Skittles]

41. invaded by fucking idiots

[SammyWinstonJack]

55. One in the same.

[MadBadger]

37. I dont like Dennis, but I will say one thing about him. He's never run for Prez in a third party

And I def thank him for that.

[MajorChode]

56. ...yet

He's only 63 and still has a bright future ahead as a political spoiler. I wouldn't even be surprised if the GOPhers secretly fund the effort.

[Vidar]

40. I support both Kucinich & Nader and despise corrupt corporatists of both parties.

[mmonk]

42. You mean insurancecare.

[Mari333]

45. Dennis isnt a corporate whore. like some on here seem to like.

[MajorChode]

59. False dichotomy fail

Ya gotta love the Dennis groupies. Anyone who isn't one of them MUST be a "corporate whore" as if anyone can only be one or the other. The premise has no basis in fact, reason, coherency, or lucidness but it is good for a chuckle.

[ncteechur]

46. I like Dennis Kucinich but he is not President and has the same legislative power as John Boehner.

He gets 1 vote of 435. His vote was offset by Rep. Cao's.

[western mass]

47. Do corporate lobbyists get paid overtime

for working on the weekends?

Just wondering.

[Le Taz Hot]

48. Epic Fail

by the OP. Unrec.

Here's a dollar, Sport. Go out and buy yourself a clue.

[MajorChode]

62. Even if it was a fail, at least he offered a reason for his assertion

The best you could manage was that anyone who disagrees with you MUST be wrong and a pathetically trite cliche.

Cheers!

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bluetrain]

57. Sounds to me like someone got turned down at the baths.