For those of us who have had an abortion...

1) Lots of women have abortions that save their lives and/or abort dead or entirely nonviable fetuses.
2) None of us ever ever ever take it lightly.
3) It's nobody else's business.
4) For many of us, we are making the best decision for our children and ourselves.

You can think what you want. this is what I know.

as a pre-existing condition? Hell, they use domestic abuse. I wonder...

And I agree with your post!

... than pay for futile care of a non-viable fetus.

As awful as this is, it DOES show that they WILL vote against the insurance lobby for SOMETHING.

In this case, for whacked-out fundie morons.

...for their mistresses. As for everyone else who isn't a rich white Christian male, too bad.

Disgusting.

I am firmly of the belief that as long as Republican lawmakers have (or are) mistresses and unwed daughters, at least SOME form of abortion will always remain legal. They can pay lip service to being "Pro-Life" all they want, but they will never stand for outlawing abortion completely because they know they might want it some day.

It costs them less for an abortion than it does for childbirth and well baby care, even for a healthy baby.

at planned parenthood to really see what it is all about.

Spend time working in the Foster Care system and try to find homes for all the children that need and want a family.

I've heard far too many horror stories about what happens to kids who are either unwanted or even worse, wanted only because the adults in their lives can abuse them in unimaginable ways. Either way, I think the abortion protestors should be required to spend time with those kids, see the effects of what they've endured, and commit themselves to helping those kids on the path to healing. My bottom line is, far better for those kids to have been aborted than suffer the abuse inflicted upon them. Perhaps the anti-abortion-no-matter-what types could even step up to the plate and become foster parents to provide these victims with the safe and nurturing environment they're entitled to. My guess? They'd keep carrying their protest signs, cheer when abortion providers are murdered, and cheer even louder when abortion is outlawed altogether.

Sick!

pet project is the agenda. It is sick and personally, I think there is something wrong with people that support the unborn and could care less about the living.

are to the unborn. It seems like the vast majority of anti-choice folks also have a problem with welfare, food stamps, raising taxes for education, universal healthcare, birth control, sex education, and the list goes on. They don't want women to have access to information, education and birth control, and it's somebody else's problem once that kid is born, but by golly the fetus is THEIR DOMAIN. It makes me sick.

woman experiencing a complicated pregnancy who is put on bed rest at home or is in the hospital. I never saw any of the zealots when I was in that situation more than once.

Bastards.

decisions and both were under 21. I could never judge, not after seeing how hard it was on them up close.

as some repukes like to make people think.

It's a complicated decision and definitely not an easy one.

tossing out a pair of old shoes.

Glad I never had to make that harder decision.

I hate abortion. But I don't want it outlawed or hard to get. It's nobody's business what a woman decides to do with her body and its contents.

It was part of being female.

cut off federal funding for abortions for women in the military, I knew of several soldiers that had abortions. In no case did I know of anyone having one and going partying afterward. I almost aborted my daughter when I discovered I was pregnant with her as I was getting ready to leave my ex-husband. I'm so very glad I didn't, but I did go ahead and not divorce the creep for another two years. My mother had an abortion in the 1940s. She had tuberculosis, was Hispanic and poor, and all TB patients were kept in isolation at the state run TB hospital in San Antonio, TX. Abortion was practically mandated for pregnant TB patients and a state hospital nurse performed it. I hate the fundies. What business is it of theirs what women do with their bodies? If they'd quit voting against decent housing, wages, jobs bills, safety nets for pregnant out-of-wedlock girls, maybe many wouldn't have abortions. It's like, we love these un-nucleated cluster of cells, they are a child. But, once an actual living child takes it's first breath out of the mother's body into the world, they turn their collective backs on you and tell you that you are on your own, you shameless hussy and your bastard kid.

Or anything that was interpreted as condescending, judgemental or insensitive. My eloquence is about as good as a drunk sailor giving a eulogy and I know how charged a subject matter abortion is. If I said anything hurtful or wrong, please accept my apologies.

But I have seen people get very very uncomfortable when I do. It's their problem, not mine. It is legal, it is safe, and it's what I needed to do at the time. I do not suffer any mental illness from it, I did it in a way that made me comfortable with my decision (i.e. I found out early and as soon as possible I had it done so as not to deal with a more developed fetus), and I would do it again under the circumstances. I believe that my decision has allowed me to make life better for others and myself. On a more philosophical level, I believe that that I freed that soul (if there was one) to find it's actual family. Is all this so hard to understand?

I truly believe that. It still wasn't an easy decision and I don't think I'd change it if I had to do it over again because if I did I wouldn't have a great husband that I've been married to for over 20 years, and two more additional kids that we made together.

I don't have any regrets.

I've never had an abortion, and my reproductive system is no longer productive. I do, though, have three grand-daughters. I'll be damned if I'm going to allow strangers to feel as though they have the right to stick their noses into my girls exam rooms.

I have had an abortion. I would not have been able to give that child a good life, but it is not an easy thing to live with. Did I do the right thing? I do wish I could have been strong enough emotionally to go through with the pregnancy and put the child up for adoption. There are too many unknowns and what ifs to know for sure, but I do think that for me in the situation I was in I did the right thing. I am at peace with my past and with my decision. I have gone on to live my life the best I can, and I am very happy. I have been married for 15 years to a wonderful man and have two beautiful children. I would like to see less unwanted pregnancies and I think we could lower unwanted pregnancies alot by increasing access to birth control and sex education. But the religious right would never support that. They don't want anyone having sex until they are married. Do they not realize that married women take the pill too or are we all suppose to be like the Duggar's and have 20 children? I think the religous right got angry when women starting having control over how many children they wanted to have. They have been telling women how to have children for a long time and they don't like it that women have the power to control how they have children now. Look at the reaction they had when birth control was first invented. Even married women weren't suppose to take the pill back then unless their husband's gave them permission to. Loretta Lynn's song The Pill was banned from the radio. Now insurance companies won't pay for the pill but will pay for viagra and women have to pay more for health insurance because we have to have gynelogical/obstetricional care? I do without a doubt believe there is an assault on women's rights in this country and some women are just handing them over.

Very well said!

I've been married for 25 yrs. now.

K & R

I look forward to celebrating 25 years of marriage with my husband.

My younger sister was 17 the first time, still in high school. She made her boyfriend go with her to the clinic and wait for her.

The second time, she and her husband already had two children, one of them with special and all-consuming needs. She would have loved to have a third child, she really would, but her husband was adamant. For the good of her marriage...

But it didn't end there -- they were living in New Jersey at the time, some 20 years ago, a place she perceived as being stuck in the 1950s. Her OB/GYN prescribed her a sponge-contraceptive. When she went back to the clinic knowing she'd gotten pregnant anyway, a different doc saw her and scoffed that sponges were notoriously unreliable. Then he and the rest of the clinic proceeded to stall her until nearly the end of her first trimester. They really did not want to allow her to do this and made it emotionally and in every other way hard. I think she finally pitched a fit. Then they didn't want to let her husband be in the room with her. She was furious beyond words, but I think she had a few choice ones anyway along the lines of it was his sperm.

They're still married and love each other, the two kids are grown...

My best friend in college got pregnant by her future husband. Roe vs. Wade had just been decided. She told me at the time, "Well, I took care of it." Her first baby, a girl, was conceived on their honeymoon and is now grown with a child and a career of her own. Her son is a lawyer. Somewhere after 40 she had cramping and spotting... She said, "I'm pretty sure I was pregnant and losing it, so I took care of it." That last is what my mother and her contemporaries would have called a D&C, dilation and curettage, used to scrape out the contents of the uterus after a miscarriage to forestall infection. It can also be used for early abortion, unsurprisingly, but it is useful after a miscarriage.

The point is: both of these women love their existing children with all their hearts. They love their husbands likewise. But they also made decisions based on their urgent plans for their futures, their own health, their husbands' needs, and the needs of their existing children.

We are past the time, nearly a century ago, when my too-fertile-for-health grandmother's doctor warned her to have no more babies (she had 4 in 4 years) and her MIL gifted her with a leather couch and said, "Tell Ed to sleep on that." Gran loved Ed too much for that, and I don't know what they did do, but it was 7 years before she got pregnant again, and another 7 years before they had their last child.

And to those that would have condemned the women I love and respect to bear children unwillingly and untimely, I say: Walk a mile in their shoes. Then walk a mile in the shoes of a *really* desperate woman. Then STFU. I despise Republicans.

This is what I know, too, and I've never personally had an abortion.

Hekate

and I think you are completely correct do you know that there are some extreme RWers that advocate prosecuting women that have had past abortions as murderers? I'm just pointing out the insane nature of the opposition in case some don't understand what we are up against. Knuckle draggers. Real knuckle draggers.

or should i say bring it on?

I know it's not easy and our society has no sympathy. I also appreciate those of you that understand and support a woman's right to choose. think about those 4 words.

that up to half of those women have had abortions themselves. for many it remains their dirty secret.

"Did you know Senator Tom Coburn believes abortion doctors should be executed?" Excerpt of NARAL profile on him.

As you said, there are some RW'ers who make even the most hideous reptilian critters seem cuddly and attractive. The "Visitors" have nothing on this oozing slime ball.

This is his stance that got him elected in OK.

Coburn stated "I favor the death penalty for abortionists and other people who take life."

Rest of story here:

http://www.prochoiceamerica.org/choice-action-center/in...

Plenty in our own party as well -- religious fanatics -- playing the game.

I have the two children I was meant to have and am a more mature parent - what ever happened prior is nobody's business.

Then I discovered what a huge decision and burden pregnancy can be. I had a child who was wanted and healthy, and I was safe, but not all women have those conditions when they are pregnant. Thank you for standing up and speaking out.

until she had her first. i recall when i had one she told me if it was her she'd have the baby and put it up for adoption. then she was faced with a situation she could not handle.

this was back in the 70's and early 80's. almost every woman i know from that period had at least one abortion.

wanted. I hope she is still well and thriving.

I also very glad you expanded your perception of this issue beyond your own situation to the situations of other women. I wish far more people, men and women, could do this. We need a whole lot more people realizing that the pro-choice position needs to be supported at all costs for all women, regardless of what choice they chose personally.

As a gay man I have never "had a horse in this race," as the saying goes, but I have always considered this a vital civil rights issue. I think Everyone should be fighting for this.

If we can't support the full civil rights of 51% of the population to make their own medical decisions and control their own bodies then how seriously are we really supporting anyone's civil rights? If we allow 51% of the population to be denied their rights, then everyone's rights are at risk.

A minor medical procedure that millions of women need access to, many of which are working class and poor. Insurance coverage especially in the heavily subsidized group of women should be available.

I can't believe I now wish for the good old days when abortion was relatively inexpensive and readily available. So if this passes in the final bill we now can provide aid to women overseas for abortions but can't help women within the US.
Pathetic.

When I was much younger, in 1976, we got married because she was "knocked up." (ugly term) My daughter is 33 now, and we made it through 18 basically happy years, and respect the hell out of one another to this day. Tough decision then, but it was HERS ultimately. Of course, my offer of marriage played a role. No regrets. Now, I am with someone who had a couple abortions when younger, and that is just the historical record. We are both now 58, so no longer a personal issue.

That's my history, as a guy, but I would never presume to make that decision for a woman. If I were a woman, I certainly would not want some smug Rethuglican who would strip every benefit from my child in a heartbeat forcing a decision upon me.

She tells me that she remembers those days, too. That's the only reason why she does not want abortion outlawed. She's so firm about this that I wonder if she knew someone who had a back alley abortion that may not have gone well.

If federal funds can't pay for elective abortions now, and under Stupak, federal funds still can't pay for abortions, why is there suddenly going to be an increase in back alley abortions? Or is this just hyperbole?

such as waiting 24 hrs, etc. It costs money to travel, spend the night in a motel. This article explains. http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/sfaa/mississippi.html

When the insurance companies in the exchange no longer have to pay for abortions, this will allow for other insurance companies to drop the coverage also.

Insurance companies aren't required to pay for abortions now. Federal funds can't pay for abortions now.

What does the amendment change? What does the amendment do that isn't already being done, i.e., not allowing federal funds for abortions?

deciding that they shouldn't have to cover the legal medical procedure either.

There is nothing forcing them to offer it now, and some do. I don't see why this will change anything for the plans that already offer it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

This will allow insurance companies to deny abortion coverage for ALL abortions...if the mother is very ill (unless they might die), if the baby is going to be born with it's organs outside its body, or no brain, or if the fetus is dead, or brain dead. How would you like to go shopping for a doctor you can afford for one of those procedures? Not a walk in the park, and very emotionally damaging for the woman.

according to that site. As I understood it the amendment was about the government not paying for abortions and the insurance companies didn't have role in it.

...

The compromise brokered Friday night on the volatile issue of abortion finally secured the votes needed to pass the legislation.

As drafted, the measure denied the use of federal subsidies to purchase abortion coverage in policies sold by private insurers in the new insurance exchange, except in cases of incest, rape or when the life of the mother was in danger.

But abortion foes won far stronger restrictions that would rule out abortion coverage except in those three categories in any government-sold plan. It would also ban abortion coverage in any private plan purchased by consumers receiving federal subsidies.

...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33748707/ns/politics-health...

government money. So this ban will affect essentially everyone no matter what insurance you have. It is a back-handed way of banning abortion, by making sure nobody is able to get one unless they can afford to pay cash for it.

were NO legal abortions, so I remember the deaths and horrific physical and mental damage that happened to women in those days. It makes me very angry and sad when I see how quickly we have forgotten the lessons of the past.

Recommend.

people out there who know this - they don't care because it is not and has never been about saving lives and making the best decisions for our children and ourselves. It is about controlling women - period. Its about keeping women in their place. And it is especially about controlling women's sexuality.

"She made that bed, now she must lie in it.

why women join these religions confounds me!!

those things to anyone?

I resent that we, as women, feel we have to defend the decision to have an abortion and have to state over and over that it wasn't an easy decision. It's nobody else's fucking business.

it's not something any woman wants to do --

but in many cases, the decision is clear and not a struggle.

AND ... It's nobody else's fucking business.

In 1991 I was carrying twins- at 15 weeks I began to bleed.
My doctor sat me down, said "Look, you have a 5 year old child who needs you and
this pregnancy may put your life in danger and I recommend termination."

It was horrible to go through, but I am now alive and there for my child-
had I not listened to my doctor, I may not have made it through that pregnancy.

How is abortion, in a case like mine, different than treating any other life threatening condition?

BHN

Bit I think he summed up what abortion should be very well.

SAFE, LEGAL, and RARE.

To which I humbly add, in that EXACT order.

SAFE, LEGAL, AND NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS!!


I long for the day when we don't evn talk about this anymore, and women can o about their lives knowing thier uteri aren't what defines them and their worth in society.

Skittle's, that is!!!

they go on - so it's predictable and only changeable if we get more

user friendly birth-control.

Which -- we might also notice -- doesn't interest those males in control of our

government, either!!

The rare being from actually supporting birth control measures. Ounce of prevention being worth a pound of cure (and a lot less risk to ladies because they do not have to worry about actually getting pregnant if they do not want to)

How about you however not snarling just because, despite believing what you do should be SAFE and LEGAL, I also believe that we should do whatever we can as a society so that we do not have to get to a point which involves surgery and suffering to anyone. No, we have to be dogmatic to where if anyone disagrees, they get snarled at.

It was a tubal pregnancy (I probably speeled that wrong)..but it was necessary.
I had three little boys at home that needed their mom.
It was not easy.
It was horrible and one of the hardest things in my life.
I am just thankful that there was a way to get the care I needed at the time. I am sad to think my granddaughters might not have that option that so many women fought and died for.
I remember as a little girl the uproar when they found another dead woman from a back alley abortion..and how sad it was that such a nice young girl died that way.
For every man or woman that voted for this bill that left out women's health care in regards to abortion...shame on you!

Organized patriarchal religions being one of their major tools --

Ain't nobody's business if I do.

Especially pasty white men.

A voluntary abortion is the termination of a pregnancy, meaning deliberately ending the life of a fetus or embryo, for whatever reason.

A spontaneous abortion is when a fetus or embryo dies of natural causes, or sometimes due to an accident to the mother. Sometimes a dead fetus or embryo is not "miscarried" on its own but has to be removed.

I'm always surprised when someone says "I had to have an abortion, my baby died." If your baby died, you didn't have an abortion, you just had a dead baby removed from your body.

But I think the person that had this happen to them should be able to call it whatever it was to them. And if I recall, the doctors had to induce ABORTION for my dear friend who had tried so hard to get pregnant and her baby died in utero at 8 months. She and her husband took the baby home over night before they had a full funeral. they now have 2 natural kids.

and they called it a missed abortion if the baby dies stays in the uterus and won't be a spontaneously aborted.Any which way the medical field calls it an abortion,dead or alive.

The actress Debbie Reynolds talks about being refused an "abortion" --

after it became clear that her pregnancy was over - dead fetus at 8 or 9 months.

She had to go on the two additional months because she couldn't get the care she needed.

She became pregnant again after that -- same thing -- however, this time the fetus died

in a much earlier month -- maybe 5th and she had to walk around carrying the dead fetus

for 4 months or so!!!

Later, they medical report showed she had been low on resources - vitamins/essential stuff --

to support a pregnancy. And obviously, having to carrying dead fetuses around didn't help her!

But, patriarchy was happy with it!!!

should be "between a woman and her doctor" this is it. thank you for posting. been there done that.

AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. I detest this idea that all women who abort agonize over the decision when many or maybe even most it's an easy one to make, and those women should not be made to feel bad that they DIDN'T agonize over it. I've been lucky enough to have not needed to have an abortion but I have always known that should I ever wind up pregnant despite efforts not to I would go directly to the nearest abortionist without a single qualm, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. The only reason I wouldn't "take it lightly" is the fact that I'd have to pay for it, surgery isn't fun, and I'd have to deal with some physical discomfort. But in no way would I suffer the slightest emotional trauma over the decision to abort whatsoever, and I resent the idea that all women do or should.

I have no children. I have NEVER wanted children. I've known all my life I would never want children. I am now 47 years old. I have never changed my mind on this.

I was 18 and in college (and working nearly full-time on top of classes to pay for it and support myself - college had no dorms). We used a condom so we weren't careless. I got pregnant anyway.

There was no agonizing in my mind at all. None. I found out I was pregnant at 10 weeks. I had an abortion 48 hours later. I was not awake for this. The after-effects were about 48 hours of cramps and a week of heavy bleeding. As well, a month of restrictions: no tampons, no sex, no baths (showers only) for a month. It cost me $300 and I paid for it all on my own (nothing from the guy).

No suicidal ideology. No lingering depression. Nada. I have NEVER regretted this decision.

And I have fought and will continue to fight tooth and nail against those who would take this choice away from the next generation of women -- whether this means by outlawing it or just by making it out of the reach of those who need it via restrictions or intimidation or lack of clinics.

No regrets whatsoever. No agonizing decision. RELIEF when it was done. The only reason I've never had an abortion myself is sheer luck. There have been MANY times I could have gotten pregnant or possibly was pregnant but my own body thankfully didn't cooperate. Like you I have never wanted children and have never changed my mind on that, and the more time goes by (I'm 45) the more adamant I am that I don't want any children. Like you I have always known that should I ever become pregnant I already knew I would get an abortion. I have never known a single woman that doesn't already know what they would do if they got pregnant accidentally. It pisses me off the idea that woman don't think about this at all until it happens. Plenty of women may change their mind when they discover they accidently became pregnant, and I have no issue with that at all as long as no one is coercing their decision one way or another, but the idea that women don't already know what they would want to do if they accidently become pregnant is absurd.

It really bothers me how many women have agonized over their decision to abort, and most if not all of that is because of society's stigma about it and exactly why it pisses me off when people insist that it's such a difficult decision and an agonizing one to make for all women because it shouldn't be. It should be no more agonizing or traumatizing then the decision of whether or not to have a tooth extracted.

to counteract the fact that the opposite is true. A whole "post abortion syndrome" was fictionalized along with bogus studies to "prove" it's existence by religious control freaks.
The fact is that the vast majority of women are confident in their decision and relieved afterwards.

The real agony and violence comes from restrictive laws and numerous barriers to safe legal abortions in this country. We juat added one more to the pile.

Like it somehow makes women who chose abortion more deserving of the right to abort. And I believe it's perpetuated by pro-choice advocates to counteract the religious right when they claim women use abortion as birth control and/or are frivolous about chosing to abort. No woman is frivolous about chosing to abort, but that is entirely different than insisting no woman makes the choice to abort without agonizing over the decision and finding it to be a difficult decision. For many and perhaps most woman it's a very simple non-agonizing decision that is not the least bit frivolous.

Abortion is not a “necessary evil.” Abortion is a moral and positive choice that liberates women, saves lives, and protects families.

It required thought, I still have thoughts about it (meaning I have an opinion) and I still strongly stand by my decision. I think you might be reading something in to all this based on society's backlash. Get a grip.

Everyone and every situation is different. If some don't agonize over it that is fine. I did. It was hard for me to live with. It took a long time for me to find peace with many things in life including the abortion. That does not mean I think I did the wrong thing, but it was hard on me. We shouldn't try to invalidate each other because we handle it differently. I do agree that the anti-abortion activisists shouldn't exploit the fact that it can be hard emotionally. They try to argue that because it can be hard emotionally that that justifies their argument of making it illegal. I don't see it that way. My emotions don't belong to anyone but me and I am free to feel however I want. I don't believe the way I felt after the abortion justifies their argument at all.

There are plenty of reasons why a woman might agonize over an abortion, and it has nothing to do with the social stigma. It's a very personal decision. You seem to want to make a judgement yourself about how or what or why should one feel a certain way while telling others to mind their own business.

You don't want kids. You have no emotional connection to motherhood. Cool. You can view it like a tooth extraction. Great. Others can't.

I also did not want children. I found out I was pregnant at age 19 (am now 44) and immediately started looking through the yellow pages for a clinic. The closest one was 70 miles away. I called and made an appointment for the next week. After my abortion I had the same restrictions and I was a little weepy and strange. But that was just my body trying to adjust to being pregnant and then not in such a short amount of time. After a week or so I was back to myself and have never regretted it and really don't even think about it.

It really was one of the best decisions I ever made and it was not difficult or emotional like the religious right would like it to be

Safe, legal and none of your business.

There is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of.

over whether or not they want a child is crap --

Many clearly know what they want and it's to end the pregnancy!

And you recite the many concerns women do have ... paying for it -- surgery -- and sometimes

dealing with a partner can be difficult, either pro or con -- or having to keep it secret from

them.

Others, may have difficulties -- that's their business, however -- either way!

Seems about half of the unwanted pregnancies do go forward -- which is why patriarchs don't want

improvements in birth control. They'd lose those births!

but the baby was already dead. Would that be outlawed?

I was also actively miscarrying, but was in serious condition. I was bleeding heavily and would have needed a transfusion, hospital stay, and would have risked future fertility and possibly my life if I didn't have d&c. I made some comment to the surgeon about whether he performed abortions. He said that he didn't, that this was entirely different.

we had a report here a few months ago of a hospital refusing to take in a woman

who was having a miscarriage -- cause the administration was afraid they would lose

their funding if it was misinterpreted that they had performed an ABORTION!!!!

Patriarchy is on the verge of denying women the right to self-defense . . . IF THE

ASSAULT ON HER LIFE IS BY A FETUS!

otherwise you are on your own to find someone to do it for a price you can afford. Pleasant thought isn't it?

a woman having a miscarriage -- cause they feared being accused of giving her an abortion!!

I have 3 grown children, I would've had 4 had I not chose to terminate a pregnancy. I've never had regrets, have never been depressed or fixated on it as it was a very informed and hard decision that my husband and I made on what was best for me and our family at the time.

I am sitting here in disbeleif of the Stupac ammendment that was adopted...!! What astounds me is that women will have more restricitons on their reproductive rights and a harder time terminating a pregnancy than I did 22 years ago and I was in the bible belt!!!

Thank you DUers for sharing your experiences and making it clear why the pro choice position is so important in this "Debate".
Not what I was expecting to be reading first thing Sunday morning but very enlightening. I think if more women were so forthcoming about their feelings about this issue, there would be less and less attention spent covering the Pro life position and guys like Stupid would not have to be putting up anti choice admendments to appease the vocal prolife wingnuts. Thank you DUers.

I have a friend whose son's girlfriend had an abortion about a year ago. She said she was/is angry that the girlfriend's decision "deprived her of a grandchild".

Yes, this person is a religious fanatic who sees abortion as "murder", so that's not helping the issue any.

But what really got me going was the selfishness.

SHE wants a grandchild, so a young woman who may not be ready for parenthood should be forced to bear a child that may or may not end up with a mom who resents it. Of course, the "grandmother" would never think of taking responsibility for raising the poor kid if something like that happened. No...foist the task onto someone else and enjoy the benefits of being a grandma no matter what happens to the kid.

I just shake my head in disgust over the self-centeredness. It's the very same attitude so many of them have. "Oh, poor, poor little embryo/fetus" turns into "Don't look at ME...it's not MY kid!!!"

My daughter had a couple of abortions.

They were not easy decisions for her, but I feel she did the right thing, as she was heavily into alcohol and drugs at the time. I cringe to think of what may have happened to any children she might have had at that point.

I was too young, they said (a mother at 17 and knew I didn't want any more kids!!)

You'll find the right man someday, they said (never did!!!)

If you do it you'll regret it (oh yeah?? says who??)

I was able to be a good single mother to my daughter because she was my only one. I'e always been behind financially because I didn't graudate high school and I only went back to college after my daughter grew up. Still never been married, either. Probably never will even though I do have a LTR.

Reproductive self-determination and access to education are the best things women can do to improve thier lives. AND THEY WANT TO TAKE ONE OF THOSE AWAY!!!

I have had 2 abortions, mainly because I was young and not so good with the birth control. I wanted to get the IUD, but was refused because of my age. Then as I got older I wanted to get my tubes tied, was refused again because I was still too young. Suggested the IUD again to Dr, but it is not covered under insurance and to get in was several thouand dollars. "SIGH" I got tired of hearing the same old argument, you'll change your mind, you haven't met the right person, yadd, yadda, yadda. I am 40 now, still no kids and wouldn't have it any other way. I do not regret my decisionn, and it was not agonizing. It just was. Still to this day it is a a worry, I stopped taking the pill because the hormones mess me up, my husband and I use condoms, which I hate, because we can't afford to get him or I fixed. So, as I said we worry. It really does seem that we live in the dark ages sometimes.

I was only able to get my tubes tied when my daughter was 18.

I was 35 and said, "See, I've STILL never 'Found the right man,' I STILL DON'T want any more kids, DO YOU BELIEVE ME NOW???"

and condescension from doctors, telling you that they know better than you what you will want or what is good for you. That is such blatant invasive paternalism that everyone who reads that should be outraged.

How Dare those doctors prevent you from making your own decision solely because you were a young woman! How Dare they decide that they knew your future and what was best for your life better than you do!

If they did this routinely to men the way they do it to women, or if they did this to wealthy people they way they do this especially to poor women then you know damned well there would be a revolt. Reforms would happen pretty damned quick.

The history of Doctors dictating outcomes to poor young women, especially if they were minority women, is so full of horrors it make my head hurt. Women refused services. Women forced into medical procedures they didn't want or didn't even know about. Women who couldn't get their tubes tied. Women who didn't want their tubes tied but it was done to them anyway. Women given unnecessary hysterectomies. Doctors refusing to discuss or provide birth control. Doctors performing unnecessary C-sections because they would be paid more for a C-section than a vaginal birth.

And I love the tuxedo cat in your icon.

emotionally prepared to be parents. He would have preferred that I not have an abortion, but stood by my decision because, well, it was MY decision to make. We married a few years later (and then divorced in the 90's), and we have a wonderful son together, born nearly 10 years after my abortion, when we were in better financial shape and both ready to be parents.

I didn't agonize over the decision, and I've never regretted it. I made the best decision I could have made for my life and health - both physical AND mental - at that point in time.

Every woman has a life. Our lives are precious to US. Our lives are precious to others. Our lives have meaning.

Bodhissathvas seek to ease suffering: that means the suffering of people in the reality of their lives. That is why suffering must be considered in terms of actual life in the here and now. An undifferentiated mass of cells is not capable of suffering. If a late term fetus must be aborted, it is surely because of consideration for the life and suffering of the woman, a living, breathing individual.

To the Abrahamic religionists, we are not real human beings. And, hierarchical religions lend themselves to treacherous manipulation by those who want power.

Religion that puts doctrine and mythology above the experiences of actual human beings leads society to horrible suffering.

I guess they just don't have room on their signs for the rest of that...

"Keep Government Out of Health Care Except For Abortion, Stem Cell Research, Medical Marijuana, Life Support, and Other Stuff that I Don't Like"

Sheesh. It's always a matter of privacy EXCEPT when its convenient for them to thump a Bible.

Enough. Can't they just deal with their own lives and let others deal with theirs?

Take the options, don't take the options, use Medicare, don't use Medicare, opt out of Soc Sec, take SS.... isn't it all private decisions?

No woman takes ANYTHING to do with her reproductive system lightly. We live with this system every day, in so many ways, all our lives -- from our first period, way beyond our last.

I find it completely disheartening that a cadre of men get to make decisions about women's bodys.
And a cadre of raving idiots get to "inform" those heartless white guys.

Back to the drawing board, eh?

Uppity woman"...

Three and half months along and I began miscarrying. The doctor performed a therapeutic abortion to stop my severe cramping and blood loss. By the time the miscarriage had started, the fetus was not viable. I suppose there are some that would have preferred that I remained curled up in a fetal position, slowly hemorrhaging blood until I passed the fetus but I didn't. Why? Because I did that once because I had no money. That miscarriage started in June and lasted until September. It was a horrible experience and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Oh yeah, I had another abortion. I was single, alone and couldn't afford having a child either financially or emotionally. Rather than bring a child into the world that I didn't want or couldn't care for, I aborted. And, before anyone tries to condemn me for it, I was on birth control but got pregnant anyway. It was my decision, and my decision alone, because the father took off as soon as he found out I was pregnant.

I honestly think you did what was best for your child. I have never believed that a fetus is a conscious autonomous being. It's like saying a seed is a tree.

however, IMO, the legislators who are running these deals which harm women have

no other philosophy than controlling women's bodies and reproduction.

I've had two abortions -- one illegal!

but gladly take and get their kids smallpox and Rubella vaccines. Those vaccines were made from cells cultured from aborted fetuses. Smallpox, the greatest scourge of and killer of mankind, was made extinct due to abortion. And what about frozen embryos? They were being disposed of for years without any muss or fuss until a couple of years ago when it became politically expedient for anti-choicers. The fact is that the anti-choice masses are being lead by politically powerful leaders that know that they need these emotional ignoramases around to keep pushing their agendas with this hot button issue. If abortion wasn't an issue, they couldn't get a lot of these religious kooks to the voting booths. Many anti-abortion and anti-contraceptive laws could've been passed during the Bush Administration, but weren't. And remember during the '08 election, when it looked like McCain was pulling ahead of Obama before the financial crisis? The Conservatives in the Supreme Court really started sweating. Because a Rethug prez would throw a conservative justice or two that would overthrow Roe v. Wade. Immediately, Justice Scalia made appearances at Pepperdine University and 60 Minutes, talking about how abortion isn't mentioned in the Constitution and that if it is overturned, the individual states will pass their own laws. Bull-fucking-shit! He was scared out of his wits. He knew that if there was a 5-4 conservative majority, it would be shit or get off the pot. What would an argument to outlaw abortion be like? Well, first they'd have to deliberate on when life actually starts. And the stupids would probably have to appease the wingnuts by saying it starts at CONCEPTION. Well, that would outlaw most artificial birth control. The trouble with many young women today, that were not born around the time of the women's movement, is that they are blase or take their reproductive freedoms for granted. If they thought that they might lose their right to use artificial birth control because of a bunch of religious crazies, a new women's movement would start that would make the one in the 70s look like a picnic outing. AND THOSE WINGNUTS IN POWER KNOW THIS. So, on the one hand, you have these fanatic masses, frothing at the mouth, demonstrating in front of abortion clinics, and then you have the puppet masters, pulling their strings to keep this hot button issue alive as a way of keeping them stirred. But, stem cell research is a steamroller that they can't stop. If it isn't allowed in the U.S., other countries will make all the innovative life-saving discoveries and we'll be left behind as a third world scientific tundra. Where kids are taught that the Earth is 6,000 years old. Abortion has it's place in our society. My sister gets angry when I tell her that there were abortions in the time when Jesus walked the Earth and why didn't he mention them specifically? She states that there were not! Wrong. Pharmacopedic parchments that archeologists have recovered from that time state that the biggest articles for sale were pessaries, abortifacients, and bladders of goat's blood for a girl to put in her vagina on her wedding night so that she would bleed at first intercourse and thus not get stoned for not being a virgin. I guess if Jesus didn't have a problem with abortions, I don't know why all the handjobs do. Oh, marijuana was also popular during labor in those days. The Prince of Peace must of been born awfully mellow.

All of the natural means for women to abort, interrupt conception,

create lifelong infertility if they wished by means of drugs/plants ...

were destroyed by patriarchy.

Much of the knowledge was made taboo, as well.

Thanks for resurrecting truth!!!

RU-486 is based partially on a natural drug/plant chemical which prevents the

fertilized egg from adhering to the wall of the womb.

Evidently, in the South Sea Islands women still have access to it -- from papaya?

Think they eat it for 7 days --

At any rate, there were many means -- all destroyed.

that became extinct by the first century AD. It was a very effective method of birth control and induced an uncomplicated abortion up to the second month according to Pliny and several other philosophers and writers. But, of course, according to Philo the Jew, and Dominic Crossan, among other religious scholars, the favored methods of Jews and early Christians of ridding themselves of unwanted children up until the second century CE was exposure. Unwanted female babies and babies born "with blemish" were left unattended in places where they were sure to die quickly from the elements or from predators. The place where Jesus was crucified, Golgatha, or the Place of the Skulls, was such an area where unwanted babes were dropped off to die. I'm so damned glad I live in an era where we have choices that don't include leaving babies to be eaten by wolves or kids being sold as slaves just because they happen to be girls or be children born "with blemish", whatever the heck that means! You know, the kind of Biblical "Godly" life we're supposed to be living. We can be thankful that we struggled to give our daughters choices, and fight to keep those choices available for our granddaughters. Because a lot of these younger women really don't know the stakes. They have had reproductive freedom all their lives and have hardly noticed how, little by little, those freedoms are being chipped away.

Women today will be shocked to find how far back they can be taken if this continues on!