NOT the change I voted for.

[Nikki Stone1]

Federal Funding for Corporate/Charter Schools

My insurance won't pay for abortion if I'm raped

Record Unemployment

Continuing redefining of "unemployment"

President not supportive of gay marriage

50% of US kids on Food Stamps at some point

Dems and White House overturning Wall Street anti-fraud law

Wall Street getting vaccine when most Americans don't

Democrats protecting the Federal Reserve from Congressional Oversight

The Continuing Privatization of Government Services

Abu Ghraib Photos Suppressed

Main Street suffers while Wall Street gets bonuses

Continuing war in Afghanistan with no end in sight

Obama continues Bush policy in the Middle East

Still supporting corrupt Karzai

American income drops

CIA raped people with broken bottles with no accountability--even now

Net Neutrality under major attack

Bankers profiting on cluster bombs

[ixion]

1. kicked and recommended

me, either.

[emilyg]

148. +1

[Nikki Stone1]

246. Thanks

.

[babylonsister]

2. Digging deep, aren't ya. You're blaming unemployment, which

didn't start miraculously on 1/20/09, on this admin? Likewise kids and food stamps? I quit reading after that. Nice try.

[KharmaTrain]

6. Yep...They Want It ALL Now...

I guess these folks were happier with how things were before 1/20/09. Or they support the unitary executive idea...that President Obama must rule by fiat...to hell with the separation of powers. But ya know, Sis...I expected this...they were tolerant of President Obama at best and quietly hoping for him to fail. With friends like these...

It's easy to condemn and cry for one's pony...but I don't see any constructive ideas on how to achive all those bitches. But bitch they will...

[natrat]

8. please, take a look at the big issues, say war and money

we are a country going broke and these corrupt bastards are handing over trillions to the war machine and to private banking interests along with fake regulation and complete lack of oversight.How anyone with a brain and a conscience can overlook this is beyond me.

[KharmaTrain]

9. Parking A Battleship

So one person can wipe away 30 years of what has amounted to a kleptocracy? President Obama didn't push for the "deregulation" that led to the massive redistribution of wealth and power into the hands of the corporates. And overturning decades of "Raygunomics" is no easy task...especially since the GOOP spent 12 years in control of the House and 8 years of near one-party rule all but codifying their greed.

It's not overlooking or not condmening...but overturning all the damage that has been done won't be easy. Again...I ask how do you propose turning back the clock? Not wishes, but actual, practical means to do this. And to make these changes without destroying the economic infrastructure that will only hurt the middle class, working poor and others more than they already are.

I'm not happy with how slow change is happening...but we elected President Obama for 4 years, not 9 months. His plate is loaded with problems and as we're seeing in the healthcare debate, he and others are meeting resistance every step of the way...and sadly some come from within the Democratic party.

[samplegirl]

10. Greatest reply I have read yet

and all the nay sayers are right up there with Limbaugh as far as I am concerned!!! Your reply sparked every reason why we must all continue to support President Obama.

[morillon]

19. I totally agree.

I don't get all the skepticism and nay-saying. I mean, I'm horribly judgmental and skeptical and cynical about almost everything I encounter on a daily basis, and yet I see a LOT of progress so far in this administration.

[Stinky The Clown]

26. He needs to visibly, clearly, actively, obviously lead

He hasn't.

Health care is a prime example. He has been absent from the debate except for mostly lofty speeches to mostly obscure groups. Even his strongest supporters in the House have said as much.

And don't say we would have been happy if palin were president or that we loved Idiot Son. Those are strawmen. Obama is there and it is Obama's job. No, no one who is reasonable expects he would have had everything done in a short time. BUt what reasonable people expected to see was movement in the right *direction*. And that hasn't been obvious, even to many of us who are paying close attention.

[KharmaTrain]

31. Separation Of Powers...

I know after 8 years of "unitary executive" it's a concept some may not understand. Congress is where bills are written and rewritten...supposedly by people elected to represent those who elected them. The President can stand on his head and hold his breath but if those in the legislative branch don't write or propose the legislation, nothing move, period. He can express his opinions and lobby, but in the end, it's the votes and the compromises that ensue that is what the framers had in mind when they designed this system. During the boooosh years I resented seeing bills written in the backrooms before they were brought forward and then debate was limited, if there was any at all...all directed by a handful of powerful powerbrokers.

Todays Democratic party represent a large number of people, regions and interests. Yes, it's madenning to see how slow and complex this process is but it also represents the many divides and special interests of a country of 300 million people.

There's a diference in leading and dictating. If the progress is too slow or not to your liking, look at who represents you in Congress.

[pampango]

70. Great point about the unitary executive. While we hate the concept (particularly when it was Bush)

of the unitary executive because it is so un-democratic, part of us wants our turn at having a unitary executive. We suffered through 8 years of an idiot unitary executive, surely we are due at least 4 years of having our own. Someone who can undo the bad things and do the good things (kind of an un-Bush) without going through congress (the Bush method).

I suppose it's better for the long term health of our democracy to discredit the concept of the unitary executive. We've seen how dangerous it can be. But President Obama not wanting to be one, may be delaying my gratification longer than I can stand.

Nice post, KharmaTrain

[NoSheep]

129. Can I recommend this comment? You are so absofuckinglutely right.

[Nikki Stone1]

214. Twisting one's party like a pretzel to get Olympia Snow's vote seems like an odd strategy

And it was one that the president wanted.

[tabatha]

32. Obama is trying to avoid the Clinton failure

according to Grayson. I.E. Clinton took the lead and refused to negotiate and the bill was killed.

[Stinky The Clown]

46. Let's talk about then and now

Clinton won through the back door of a split vote betwixt Poppy and That Whiney Nut From Texas, King Ross. He did not have a plurality in any way, shape, or form. And he was the target of deep seated hate that went back years and was a well funded campaign. So what does he do? He puts his wife in charge. She was, at that point in time, way too ambitious, but with absolutely no portfolio.

Then they developed these incredibly detailed plans and tried to sell it on teevee and on Capitol Hill. The material was discussed in ways that were so dense, even the most nerdy eyes rolled shut. Or got wider with building resentment and "How Dare She?" outrage.

Instead of leading, they tried to do it all themselves. Mom and Pop, living over the store, trying to add Amway to their product line.

Contrast that with today. Obama started with, pretty much, the biggest majority and the most massive stock of political capital of any Democrat in my lifetime. But he has yet to say in even lofty terms what he wants. His fingerprints are nowhere *near* the various bills going through Congress. Maybe that's planned. This way, he can claim innocence if it fails and credit if it doesn't.

I think he should have started by saying he favored single payer (in some tarted up guise or other) and then negotiated downward from there. When he started halfway to the repubican demands, he lost the race before it started.

That's how I see it. The comparison to Clinton falls apart petty damned quickly.

[tabatha]

62. Well, then Alan Grayson must be talking out his butt.

[Stinky The Clown]

80. I don't get the connection .....

.... Alan Grayson?

[bikingaz]

89. Obama needs to lead, not flowery talk

We desperately need leadership that he promised during the campaign. Don't do everything at once - focus on delivery of the promises - one at a time.

[Nikki Stone1]

189. He seems to be following, not leading

And the people he has around him, especially Geithner and Summers, are not in it for the good of the country but for the good of their cronies.

[Generic Brad]

237. He was on Capitol Hill twisting arms today!

That sounds to me like something a leader does.

[CANDO]

203. Well, if they plan on doing as we all wish...

they had better get started soon and with extraordinary haste. The corpo-media is already priming the dumb fuck American voter to hand it all back to you know who next November. What we don't have is time and patience. What we need is an all out assault on the the banksters and insurance plutocrats. Sadly, we're not getting it. We're being told 60 votes is not enough when historically it is way more than enough.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

250. Thanks, excellent reply

I don't get how people can't understand something as simple as this metaphor:

We have an attic that's been piled up to bursting with crap over decades, many decades in fact (corporate greed and planning in their own interest has been going on far longer than the repuke hold on government of the past 12 or so years)---

Cleaning it out takes some time and will look like a godawful mess for a while.

Metaphors can be very useful in helping to understand real complexities.

[C_Lawyer09]

25. How about

Audit the fed and make the DOD as well as CIA budget transparent?

[TheWatcher]

37. And Sacrifice National Security? All in the name of Transparency and Rule Of Law?

What are you, a Forefather?

Sheesh, next you'll be quoting from some quaint 200 some odd year old document and start some crazy rant about "inalienable rights" and "freedom".

Get a New Sign, Street Preacher.

[Name removed]

166. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[arcadian]

65. You dropped a pom-pom.

[HughMoran]

127. That's so funny

I lol'd as I hit the red "X"

[arcadian]

205. Thanks

[Lone_Star_Dem]

152. Honestly, is that your idea of a thoughtful reply to a post?

While I may not agree 100% with KharmaTrain at least they express intelligently their views and the reasons they hold them.

Pom-Poms? Is that really the best you've got to offer to the discussion?

[arcadian]

204. I think it's rather funny.

[Missy Vixen]

87. Oh, yeah, that explains everything

>It's easy to condemn and cry for one's pony.<

I don't want a fucking pony. I never did. I want health care insurance. I want to know that if my husband has some kind of health issue (he's an insulin-dependent diabetic, by the way,) that we can go to the hospital without losing everything we own to pay for it.

Barack Obama has dragged his feet, remained silent, and let the Republicans frame the issue. The day before yesterday, Harry Reid announced that the health care deadline was going to "slip".

Do you think this is fun? It sure as hell isn't for us, and fifty million others that spend day after day uninsured, and can't hope to get through underwriting, even for a catastrophic care policy.

We were promised "hope and change", and all we're seeing is "meet the new boss, same as the old boss".

In the meantime, you might want to change your sig.

[Andronex]

197. This is like getting into a cab...

and the cab is going into the wrong direction, but you're supposed to sit there and say nothing, eventually you tell the driver that he needs to turn back, but you are told to shut up...

[lib2DaBone]

215. I have put hundreds if not THOUSANDS of constructive ideas on this board...

My house is still foreclosed... I am still unemployed.. I have no health care and the banks are still getting richer while taxpayers wither away....

[ZombieHorde]

240. You are using a logical fallacy called straw man.

A straw man is a fake or exaggerated argument which is created to be easily argued against or make one's opponent seem silly. Straw men distract from the actual argument and are contrary to critical thinking.

[CJCRANE]

11. Reminds me

of the old catch phrase on DU "it's Clinton's fault", parodying freepers who blamed Big Dog for everything.

[blindpig]

50. It is the lack of mitigation of unemployment which is to be decried

Where are the jobs? FDR knew what had to be done and did it, the example is there. We needed FDR and got Calvin Coolidge.

[Name removed]

99. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blindpig]

124. Why don't you stay on topic, geek?

Why aren't there any jobs from the government, like the WPA? Why is this not possible in the richest country in the world?

What I hate, Mr Geek, is capitalism. It is the primary source of misery and oppression, it is killing the planet. What's not to hate?

Ya'll are sounding more like Tail Gunner Joe every day.

[geek tragedy]

134. No jobs from the government. More Freeper lies

http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/career-articles-6_fields_that_...

Construction. The biggest thrust of the stimulus plan is a national two-fer: creating jobs while shoring up the nation's infrastructure, including roads, bridges, rail lines, and wastewater and drinking water facilities. The Associated General Contractors of America estimates that stimulus spending would create or save 1.85 million jobs, including 640,000 in construction and 300,000 among suppliers and equipment manufacturers. Job opportunities will be even broader than traditional hard-hat jobs; there will also be openings for transit coordinators, waste disposal engineers, and accountants and managers with experience in large construction projects.

The Green Sector. This is a broad category of jobs, and there is some overlap with construction and energy. But generally these jobs are in some way aimed at reducing greenhouse gasses, reducing dependence on oil, or reducing consumption of other non-renewable sources. Examples can range from architects, to manufacturers and installers of solar panels, to energy rating auditors.

Medical Information Technology. The stimulus bill includes $19 billion for updating health information technology. This is intended to increase the number of physicians who use computers in their practice and will likely create opportunities for training health personnel and running health systems. It could also lead to job openings in hardware and software companies, from computer assemblers to systems analysts to project managers.

Education. Many states have made cuts in their education budgets, but the stimulus plan calls for a $53.6 billion state-stabilization to help states avoid further cuts and layoffs. Funding could also lead to new jobs for teachers and administrators in areas such as Head Start and other early-education programs. The stimulus also sets aside funds for modernization of schools (which overlaps with infrastructure and construction).

Energy and Utilities. A key part of the stimulus plan, and a campaign pledge by Obama, is the modernization of the nation's electrical grid. "Smart grid" jobs will include regulators hired by public utility commissions, in addition to load management engineers, meter manufacturers and systems control center operators.

Federal Government. A $787 billion package doesn't just administer itself. There will be openings for more lawyers, regulators, accountants, and administrators to ensure all of the dollars go where they're intended.

Of course, when Joe Lieberman is needed to vote for every dollar of spending, life is soooo simple.

[blindpig]

150. Where are the jobs now?

FDR had the WPA up and running in three months.

This 'stimulus plan' is so trickle down that a time traveler from the past might think that Reagan authored it. The dollars that find their way into working class pockets will be paltry.

It's not as though I'm talking about nationalizing chunks of the economy fer chrissake (though that would be a good idea) but simply taking a precedent from history which brought relief to the people and applying it to the current crisis. Apparently that is not a priority...

[geek tragedy]

157. Democrats had a +200 majority in the House after 1932.

So, FDR got pretty much whatever the hell he wanted.

[Deep13]

138. Not a question of blame.

It's a question of inaction. What are they doing about it. Just because the previous govt. caused the problem is not license to ignore it. Kudos for stopping a major depression, but they could have ended the recession too.

[geek tragedy]

140. No, they couldn't have. There's no credible economist

who will tell you that Obama could have avoided this recession. It would be like catching a cannonball with your teeth.

[Deep13]

141. Seems to me it is a matter of degree.

If $800B will prevent a depression, why couldn't some more lessen the recession?

[geek tragedy]

144. The stimulus should have been bigger, I agree.

And the admin probably screwed up somewhat by not asking for an outrageous amount--it should have bargained in bad faith.

But, it needed 60 votes, which means people like LIEberman and Snowe and Ben Nelson and Evan Bayh.

[Deep13]

147. I'm not putting this merely on POTUS.

We didn't just vote for change in the White House. I seem to remember a big Congressional election last year too.

[geek tragedy]

149. Unfortunately, the Senate is a barrier to change and always has been.

In consolation, though, it could have done a lot of damage under Bush if there were no filibuster.

[C_Lawyer09]

158. Because

Money doesn't grow on trees, and when you print more money that has no actual backing then inflation ensues. Give me a raise and then make me pay 7 bucks for a jug of milk. Doesn't work.

[Deep13]

248. Repeal the Bush tax cuts, end the wars and tax assets of the uber-rich. nt

[Greyhound]

201. But there are a large number of very credible economists that said what

he is doing is wrong as well as being not nearly enough.

[C_Lawyer09]

206. Keynesian vs. Austrian

The Austrian school makes more sense to me though at first glance it seems inconsiderate of the poor, after much reading, I came away with a different viewpoint, though I acknowledge that I'm no expert on economic theories. Rothbard and Hayek do a good job of explaining its underlying priciples. That said, the part I remain unconvinced on is health care, I feel there must be single payer. I don't see another way to provide competition to insurance companies that seem to have run amock.

[Cha]

220. It's all about the stupid

"not the change I can believe in " Just put any ol' thing up there and the haters will make the whine more bitter.

[gleaner]

224. It may not have started ....

with Obama's election, but then we hoped he would do more to stop it. And to OP who thinks that those of us who do not think Obama is doing enough and that we set him up to fail, you are mistaken. We are aware that no one is perfect, but we would like to see an effort on Obama's part, working with his fellow Democrats to turn things around instead of letting us descend further into Republican authored chaos.

FDR faced a very similar situation, but he realized that drastic action would be called for to restore the country to a livable place for its population. Against fervent opposition, he picked up the existing social order and shook it like a big pillow. He sold his programs. He created jobs. My father took a job in the WPA to support his family. It saved us. We were utterly poor before he had work. FDR created a retirement system for those who did not have one and devised a way to stop future bank failures which had wiped out the savings of so many families. There is so much more that he did that I cannot even list it.

I do not understand why Obama cannot be more dynamic. I agree with OP who started the thread. I did not sign on for what I am getting from this administration, and it is very simplistic for anyone to insist that being displeased with what we are getting means that we approved of Bush or want his administration back. If I had wanted a repeat of Bush, I would have voted for McCain, not Obama. I wanted the changes that Obama promised during his campaign, but which he has failed to pursue diligently.

I am also getting tired of the same old drum roll that I have to love Obama or I am somehow betraying the ideals of Democracy. The Democratic party is big enough to have room for a diversity of ideas and a diversity of people. To suggest otherwise diminishes us all, and I will not accept that, anymore than I accept that I have to unconditionally approve of a President who gives every indication of messing up big time. You are entitled to your opinion of Obama. You are entitled to state it without interference. Now isn't it time that those who feel differently have the same entitlement? As I remind all of you in every post like this that I write, this is a political board and not an Obama board. In my opinion the post which began this thread has it dead on, and I thank the writer for setting it down. That will not change until Obama ceases to be the Jimmy Carter of the 21st century. A good man, but seemingly with no capacity to be a strong and definite leader.

[C_Lawyer09]

239. Fine friend

That was one heck of an apt, concise and eloquent post. I second not accepting the Obama or nothing claptrap, I voted for change as well. Get behind the legislation and push it. Stop vacillating and fight!

[gleaner]

245. Thank You ...

It is kind of you to say so. I notice that you have a low post count, so welcome to DU. I do this at my own peril, because the last time I did it OP had been a long standing member who read a lot, but posted very little. It was embarrassing, but what the heck, no one dies of embarrassment and welcomes are good.

[PuraVidaDreamin]

3. a plus 1 rec from me too.

yeah-yeah I know... change is slow.

Time for action!

[proud2BlibKansan]

4. Pretty misleading claim on abortion there

I also don't blame Obama for hungry kids. You lost me on that one. We have been dealing with hunger for generations now. To expect Obama to fix this in 9 months is insane.

Lots of other problems with your list. I'm no big Obama fan either but honesty matters.

[dsc]

20. How is it misleading

If that provision passes any private insurance company participating in the exchange will be banned from paying for abortions. Only those working for companies which self insure will still have the benefit.

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. Turn on CSPAN or MSNBC

They are discussing this now. You are correct - IF this provision passes. But the House was up late last night discussing this very provision as well as several others. Nothing has been decided yet and no votes have been cast. So yes, it is misleading to imply that private insurance will be barred from paying for abortions.

It is also beyond ridiculous to blame Obama for hungry children. That alone was enough for me to take the entire OP and put it in my 'DOUBT IT' file.

[Smarmie Doofus]

5. Ouch. Take some prisoners next time, will ya? nt

[jpak]

7. Palin 2012! You betcha!!11

[Stinky The Clown]

29. Up your straw man

No one said that except you.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Stinky The Clown]

53. Argue with the OP, not me. I didn't post that.

I'm taking issue with the notion that if you don't support Obama, then you must support Palin. Black and white thinking and childish snark is bullshit and that's what I'm calling out.

[Le Taz Hot]

54. Now, now,

you know perfectly well "if yer not fer us, yer agin us!"

[HughMoran]

125. You're not helping

...as usual

[Le Taz Hot]

154. And as usual,

you don't know what you're talking about.

[TheWatcher]

30. .....

[ZombieHorde]

241. Logical fallacies are contrary to critical thinking. nt

[lonestarnot]

12. 20 years of theft can't be undone in 10 months.

[Overseas]

72. 30 years of theft, actually, since Grandpa Reagan

slashed taxes, busted unions, and expanded our deficits perpetrating his illegal wars of choice. He revived the concept of vicarious living-- idolizing the Lifestyles of the Rich & Famous while our middle class incomes and wages declined.

So yes, as I see the poisonous attitudes of the GOP pushing further and further to the hard right, calling even the most basic human compassion, like giving our citizens freedom from medical bankruptcy, "socialist, communist, Nazi, Antichrist," I do review the positive things our president has managed to do against that barrage of idiotic barbaric shouting from the hard right.

Perhaps letting the general public see the hard right in all their ridiculous and cruel bluster will give him the support he needs to move closer to the FDR model that we desperately need right now.

President Obama has done many things that have begun to clean up the major messes left to him by the cruel Bush Cheney Gang Rule. Made some incremental steps that have dramatically improved our national profile on the world stage.

I just want the change to continue and become more progressive in the years to come. I liked having Van Jones on the team because of his dedication to Green jobs. If the USA got going on retrofitting and other domestic green jobs programs, we could demonstrate to the many other countries working on reducing their carbon emissions that we were stepping up to join the world community in ameliorating the climate crises our wasteful lifestyles have engendered.

But we've been learning this year just how powerful our Medical Industrial Complex is. We knew the Military Industrial Complex had become what Eisenhower warned us against, but while too many Democrats were extolling the virtues of the private sector and the "wisdom of the free market," the privatization of health care soared ahead and now we have a very powerful Medical Industrial Complex too. It has managed to get a majority of the Democratic legislators, who should realize giving low cost medical care to the citizens would make them very popular in the voting booth, to defy that logic and craft a bill that gives preferential treatment to privatized health insurance.

The "triggers" of decency blew off their hinges years ago. After defeating national health insurance in the Clinton years, the private health insurers didn't give us the great savings the "wisdom of the free market" promised-- they gave us more discrimination based on preexisting conditions (including age), more medical bankruptcies, and more early deaths, while their private profits soared. Yet we are still seeing Democratic legislators wanting to make things easier for the private insurers. That really shows us how very intimidating the Medical Industrial Complex is right now.

The Polluters' Industrial Complex-- fossil fuels, industrial chemicals-- may also be Too Strong to Fail. They will be using the same amoral right wing PR techniques to push their case for slowing down change our global climate systems need. With their lobbies and campaign contributions prove too powerful for our Democratic majorities to overcome?

[Greyhound]

96. .

[lonestarnot]

103. Thanks, my concept of time isn't too good these days!

[Overseas]

123. You're welcome. //nt

[CJCRANE]

13. Link dump.

[Obamanaut]

14. Rec, agreed. nt

[FormerDittoHead]

15. What would you want? Do you want him to lie us OUT of a war?

Not a bad idea, actually.

[SidDithers]

16. K&U...

for idiocy.

Sid

[Buzz Clik]

18. +1

It's still illegal to call posters Freepers and/or trolls, right? I mean, I don't want to get in trouble with the mods doing their thankless jobs. So, I'll refrain from saying something untoward about the OP.

[HughMoran]

35. +2

for unrelenting negativity to the point of piling on just to hurt people

[TheWatcher]

43. That's right!

Let's Burn the Witch!

BURN HER!

[TheWatcher]

41. Classy as always, Sid.

I can always count on you to never be childish, combative, or irrelevant.

Nobody does it better.

[SidDithers]

104. The OP got what it deserved...

and I'm not the only one who thought it was idiotic to blame Obama for everything on that list.

Sid

[berni_mccoy]

145. +100

[Lord Helmet]

217. +1

[Buzz Clik]

17. Continued this ... continued that....

Change is instantaneous?

Tons of progress has been made.

I should introduce you to my knuckledragger acquaintances. You have much in common.

[Buzz Clik]

170. For those who think Freepers don't say shit like that in the OP, gander at this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

I'm sorry, but the resemblance is startling.

[Mari333]

21. a mild mannered lawyer from Chicago who is in the middle of the road

and has a lot of sleazy advisors, it seems, that he listens to.
This is why Clinton used to piss me off.

[C_Lawyer09]

27. Good post Mari

Exactly, change doesn't come from Geithner and those cut from the same bolt of cloth. Strange bedfellows, just like Clinton and Dick Morris.

[TheWatcher]

33. Strange Bedfellows, or Complicit Conspirators?

Does the country have the courage to determine for sure?

We'll see.

[geek tragedy]

42. The country wants him to succeed.

Unlike his political enemies, at Free Republic and at Democratic Underground.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ClarkUSA]

38. Bullshit... he was a $10K community organizer out of Columbia U and opposed the Iraq war in '02...

He's also passed alot of good progressive legislation in ten months of governing that Obama haters never can acknowledge, for obvious reasons.

[mopinko]

61. just for the record- in '02

he was a state senator.
and a damn good one.

[noamnety]

143. Yep - he opposed the war before voting to fund it.

[ClarkUSA]

233. He opposed the war when it was political suicide to do so, unlike the Dem cowards who voted for IWR

As for "voting to fund it" - he wasn't going to cut off monies to the troops when their safety and livelihood was at stake. Only an idiot
would think he would do that.

[noamnety]

234. It wasn't political suicide to give lip service to opposing it

as a state senator. (Obviously)

[ClarkUSA]

236. Wrong again: He wasn't a state senator when he opposed it in 2002 prior to the IWR vote.

It's hard to take someone seriously when they can't get their facts straight and are obviously so embittered by their Obama hatred
that they regurgitate discredited talking points from last year.

[ClarkUSA]

23. Still bitter, eh? nt

[Lord Helmet]

216. +1

[ZombieHorde]

243. You are using a logical fallacy called ad hominem.

The ad hominem argument is against the person, as opposed to the actual argument. Logical fallacies are contrary to critical thinking.

[madmom]

24. I think this one was unfairly blamed on Obama as well....

Wall Street getting vaccine when most Americans don't........

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[TheWatcher]

28. Sounds like somebody has a case of The Mondays on a Friday.

It's almost like you're trying to tell us that MAYBE, Just MAYBE, that NEITHER SIDE is on OUR SIDE.

I'm Sorry, that's just too difficult to believe.

Now that our Football team has the Ball, everything that was wrong is now right, and we must give it at LEAST 15 terms of Football Team Rule and Grand Chess Games before 1/1000000000000 of what Bush did (Puppets don't run anything, but hey, this is AMERICA, where fantasy is reality) can be undone.

You're a whiny DoomPants because you want real change, and you're not willing to just feel good and pretend. You know how things actually work in this country, and that Fake Political theater is what rules us, but you have to rock the boat and ruin everyone's fun, and frankly, I'm sick of Doomers like you.

Because I'm a Democrat, I won't wish you into a camp or to have you silenced, but now that our Football team has all those neat Powers that The War Criminals left behind, I'll probably look the other way if it happens, and then it won't exist because our Football Team is good and theirs is bad, and that's the way I roll.

Unemployment is a lagging indicator, but you want to focus on it and blow my high about the Recovery that EVERYONE says is happening. If you keep thinking so negatively, the Recovery won't be real anymore, because everyone will stop feeling good, and Oprah told me The Secret only works if I keep feeling good and believe in it. This False Paradigm seems to work for everyone save for a few Rotten Rosies like you, so why should our Matrix have to suffer because you want to Rebel and take Some Red Pill.

Besides, your only other choice was McCain and Caribou Barbie, so you will take whatever Crumbs, um, I mean Democracy our Football Team thinks we should have, and you'll learn to like it, or you can't have a voice in The Party anymore, because you're probably a Repug in disguise who fantasizes about Football Team Failure.

And get over your teh Gay issues, because Rome wasn't built in a day (Wasn't Burnt in a day either, but side issue), and you have to be patient until the human race evolves enough to accept you. besides, McCain/Barbie would have treated you no better, and at LEAST you just get ignored and have your rights taken away from you. Under those two you probably would have been exterminated in some Hitleresque Bonfire, so you just buck up and worship. You'll get your crumbs from the table.

Someday.

As far as the Wars go, now that our Football team has the ball, we have to have a more open mind. We can't just leave Iraq, and even though Afghanistan is probably going to do for us what it did for Russia, we really have to stay, because the Poppies have to be looked after, and those damn Evil Doers living in those caves just MIGHT be out to get us (Yeah, I know, that's SO Last Administration, but the Party Line, after all, IS the Party Line, so just deal, k?), so we have to stay there until we're done. Whatever done means.

And you really need to get over this Bankster/Wall Street Conspiracy. The Dow is above 10K, The Recession Is Over, The Recovery is here, and if you don't think it's real, you just want The Quarterback to Fail, which makes you a RepblicanInDisguiseWhinyDoomPants.

And yes, The Patriot Act is still here, we still Torture, War Without End, and all those fun Draconian Laws and Legislation that Adolf Bush And The Funky Bunch put together are still in place, The burgeoning Police State is still.....Burgeoning, but our Football team has the Ball, so it's all OK, and as long as we have the Ball, all that stuff doesn't matter, and we just have to look forward, not backward. Rule Of Law, Constitution, Bill Of Rights, Civil Liberties, Democracy, Representative Government, all that stuff is cool, but it's also kinda nerdy and hard, and a bit confusing if you think about it. Simplicity is the way to go, and when you're on The Winning Team, you're a part of the Club. Yeah, I know what Carlin Said, but he was a bitter old fart, and he's dead anyway, so let's just feel good and not think about that.

Besides, have you seen the new episode of Dancing With The Stars? How about 'V'? Did you see the Yahoo Front Page about the Buzz the girl who plays the lead Alien has created?

You haven't?

Why Don't You Like Fun?

Anyway, I understand your concern, but enlightenment and being informed is kinda nerdy, and you're not going to make a lot of friends that way, because all the Cool Kids are feeling good and going along with The Program. I know you think rebelling makes you cool and edgy, but this isn't High School anymore. Besides, don't you want to feel good? Can't you just believe everything you're told and roll with it?

Well, I hope you feel better, because I hate to see someone be isolated and lonely like that. I hope you can get over this negativity and join the herd. It's really fun! You just listen to Propaganda, believe what you're told, feel good, and nothing else matters! It's easy! I know you aren't going to be open to it right now, but if you change your mind, I'll be here for you.

Ooooo, I almost Forgot. Pony, Chess, Blind Faith, 10 Months, Belief, Support, Confident, Recovery, Lagging Indicator, That's always been his position on that issue, 1st term, 2nd term, Biden, Debbie Downer, You Want Obama To Fail, You could have had McCain instead, Doom And Gloomer, Conspiracy Theorist, Show Me a link to a Credible Source, Reality Is Rose-Colored, aaaand....Don't enable the Republicans.

I think that about covers it.

Oh Yeah, and Don't Be Negative Nabob Eeyore DoomPants.

And one last thing.....



Thank You for reminding us of The Truth, even if it is Painful To Read, and even more Painful To Accept.

[Autumn]

45. Now THAT is one hell of

a good post. Thank you.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Autumn]

58. I would bet the farm on it.

I think you covered it all.

[Greyhound]

57. Hear, hear, with a hearty LOL thrown in for good measure.

+01
& R

[Le Taz Hot]

59. Alright!

Excellent!

[Name removed]

63. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tnlefty]

82. Very well done!

I'm so envious of your writing ability.

[salguine]

88. TheWatcher, did you ever know that you're my hero?

[TheWatcher]

98. OK, you're just flirting now. :)

And you're making me blush.

Now, if I could just get Hugh to love me. Sigh. Such a bitter, unrequitted pill to swallow.

In all seriousness though, and in all sadness, that post, though written in satire, is an attitude that has become FAR too prevalent on this Site and the country itself.

For me, it is no longer an issue of left or right, Liberal or Conservative, or even a question of Politics.

It is a question of RIGHT and WONG.

It is a question of REAL FREEDOM VS. The LOSS Of Freedom

There are many truths that the people of this country need to face right now. We need to stop being afraid of the Truth, and realize this is out FUTURE and our COUNTRY, not an NFL Rivalry.

People need to Fight for The Truth instead of being willing to Die for a Lie.

After all all, haven't enough people died because of the lies of the previous eight years alone, much less that past 80.

As David Caruso might have said (Paraphrasing from the fantastic final Scene from the movie "Session 9")

"America.....I need you to WAKE UP....And take a Really, Really.....REALLY....Good look at yourselves."

[HughMoran]

34. You're on a regular rampage - day after day

Your posts are so consistenly negative - I'm not sure I see the point any more.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TheWatcher]

68. So this is what it has come to.

Usually I would jest here, but I find your plea a bit disgusting Hugh, so playtime is OVER.

Am I really hearing that you are begging to have those who might disagree, dissent, or otherwise QUESTION The President CENSORED and thrown off DU?

Am I REALLY reading this?

You really wish to go down this road? because if that's what you want Hugh, then you are NO BETTER than the Monsters that inhabit that other dark place whose name we do not mention here.

THAT'S What those assholes supported for eight years, and what they STILL stand for.

You want to have a Site where everyone just blindly worships and tows the line, holds hands, and sings Kumbaya?

There's a Site already tailor made for that, Hugh.

It's been around for years.

It didn't work out well for them either.

To defeat the monster, you must become like the monster, huh?

I've got an even better idea. Why don't we just demand that everyone that has a dissenting voice be given a Special Avatar they have to display?

Absolutely SHAMEFUL.