How bad must it be for the military, when an Army psychiatrist goes on a killing spree?

[TheWraith]

I can't help but wonder what this says about the Army's internal psychology and stress level.

[polichick]

1. These wars are insanity - unfortunately it's not the deciders who suffer. nt

[Ruby the Liberal]

5. Or their offspring...

Only 'other people's kids'.

[TheDebbieDee]

2. Mental Health Professionals are people, too!

Who's to say he wouldn't have snapped even if there wasn't a war going on?????

[braddy]

3. How bad must it be for the military, when an Army psychiatrist goes on a killing spree?

Right now he appears to have been Muslim, that might be more significant than his being a psychiatrist

[Ruby the Liberal]

7. Then again, YOU try to counsel those who have seen unimaginable atrocities

I don't condone his actions by any stretch, but I can understand his misguided attempt to prevent more shattered lives. He must have been dealing with internal demons for a long time.

We need to bring our troops home. NOW.

[Caliman73]

16. Psychiatrists don't typically counsel clients anymore.

Though some do, I would say that Psychiatrists are basically doing symptom management. Granted, they may still hear some pretty bad stuff, they aren't doing the intensive "talk therapies" these days. Psychologists or other Therapists are more likely to be doing counseling in conjunction to the medications prescribed by the Psychiatrists.

[Ruby the Liberal]

19. Um, he was a Walter Reed Psych with a specialty in traumatic

stress experiences, recently promoted and transferred to Ft. Hood.

Hos JOB was to listen to those traumatized by Bush's wars of convenience.

[Caliman73]

23. That he was a specialist in PTSD does not mean that he was a counselor

His job as a Psychiatrist is to look for the biomedical foundations of trauma and to prescribe medications to alleviate symptoms. He may well have done other therapeutic interventions like talk therapy as well, but you cannot assume that just because a person's specialty is in a certain area of disorder, that they are counselors.

[Ruby the Liberal]

25. And it is apparently your job to assume

that he could listen to this trauma for years (since 2005) and have it not affect him as his patients were being returned for tour-of-duty after tour-of duty.

Forgive my tone. I don't do war-apologists well.

Have a nice weekend.

[Caliman73]

48. My statements have nothing to do with war

They have to do with the practice of psychiatry. I am completely against the wars but I will correct assumptions made about the mental health profession which I have worked in for the past 15 years. We do not know what the factors were in this person's decision to engage in his behavior. Perhaps you are correct, but then again you may not be.

I will forgive your tone and your erroneous assumption of my position on the wars.

[HipChick]

9. really? psychiatrist's have a high level of suicide to begin with..

[braddy]

27. really? psychiatrist's have a high level of suicide to begin with..

This seems to be a little more than a "suicide".

[Hansel]

22. This is probably going to be a bit more complicated

than "he was a Muslim".

I'm sure he has seen and heard some pretty screwed up things. My niece served 4 tours in Iraq and was force to kill a little boy as she led her troops in Army supply trucks over the top the car he was in. Insurgents had driven in front of her truck and jumped out and started shooting at them. She had to make the decision to kill a small child to save her troops. She suffers for that every day.

Every soldier has stories like these. He hears them day in and day out because they have made Fort Hood the main place for dealing for PSTD and these people are stressed to the limits and have done many things they hate themselves for and have seen everything. War is horrible and should ALWAYS be a last resort.

And as many have already pointed out, psychiatrists, although many good at their work, are not that good at following their own advice. They have their own demons and are usually drawn to the profession because of them.

There are too many mitigating circumstances here to just say it was just because he was Muslim. My guess is this is something different. I believe the Army has already warned that this is not terrorism.

It's time to end that war or start forcing some "arm chair soldiers" to take their turn and relieve these people. Enough is enough.

[Ruby the Liberal]

4. WWII vets served and went home. We keep sending our soldiers back.

Time to end the "war on Islam" now. They have survived quite successfully since 630ad without "democracy". Time to admit that we don't have a lock on ideology.

[polichick]

6. All true! nt

[AwakeAtLast]

36. If I could rec a post.....

:hi:

[Barack_America]

42. Right? And we wonder why they get confused between "home" and "battlezone".

We also used to send men home by boat. Lots of time to decompress.

Airplanes? Not so much.

[dflprincess]

44. There were a lot of WWII vets who suffered "battle fatigue"

and WWI vets were "shell shocked".

I remember reading when counseling centers finally started opening for Vietnam Vets the people running them were surprised at the number of WWII & Korean vets who showed up asking for help - no one ever really thought they needed it. And, remember when "Saving Private Ryan" came out? The VA had special phone lines set up for any vet, but especially Normandy veterans, who might feel they needed help after seeing the movie.

I bet this kind of thing has always happened with veterans it's just never been talked about before and we didn't have the communications so we'd hear about.

[Barack_America]

41. +1

[lefty369]

8. my brother inlaw has told me many stories

about his fellow shrinks. He says the psychiatrists are the craziest ones around. Wishes he never got in the profession.

[lildreamer316]

10. Brings to mind: "You teach best what you most need to learn"

Truer words and all that.

[Coventina]

11. I once had a psychologist tell me, quite seriously, that most people

drawn to becoming mental health professionals are looking for answers for themselves.

I still don't know if it's true or not, but when I hear about these things, I wonder.

[Hansel]

12. I would agree.

Been around plenty of them in earlier career and my son is one. Many have had pretty screwed up lives, but in many cases, the more screwed up the better they are at their profession. I think they are drawn to answers for themselves and are very good at projecting those answers onto their patients, but not so good at implementing them themselves.

[Caliman73]

20. I would hope that everyone was looking for answers on how to be the best person possible.

Mental health professionals probably do have a natural attraction to the workings of the mind, including their own. The picture of the mental health professional presented by media and film has always been a negative one. They are portrayed as either arrogant, cold people who want to tinker with your mind, or bumbling idiotic "new agers" into "primal scream".

Mental health professionals are people. People with their own daily problems, like everyone else. They go to school to study concepts that help them to relate to the problems of others, to guide people toward solutions to their problems, and to provide safe environments for people to do so.

[slackmaster]

38. That is one reason I originally sought a career in clinical psychology

I got out quickly when I discovered that I can't stand listening to people and the stupid problems they often brought on themselves.

[Missy Vixen]

15. I've seen a psychologist that had more issues than a magazine subscription

We also see another psychologist who is the only person on the face of the planet I feel complete safety with. He has done more for me than I could ever say.

Depends on the person, depends on the therapy, depends on how you select the mental health professional you work with.

To paint all people in a profession with the same broad brush is just wrong.

IIRC, wasn't Fort Hood shut down for three days earlier this year for a debriefing of sorts due to the sheer number of suicides?

[slackmaster]

35. My late beloved uncle was a psychiatrist who did private practice and in the Naval Reserve

He was an unusual man but I wouldn't call him crazy in any way.

I'm very sure that one of the reasons he got into psychiatry was to try to gain some insight into his own mind. I don't believe he ever did.

[Codeine]

13. I'm amazed how everyone wants to focus on "soldier" and "psychiatrist"

but you're all afraid to say "Muslim."

Come the fuck on. If he were a fundie Bible-thumper there'd be no such hesitation. None.

[Ruby the Liberal]

17. I am not afraid to say that his faith may have contributed to this

or even fueled it. My point is that people who claim this is TMB (Typical Muslim Behavior) are ignoring the fact that there are other factors involved.

Yes, ingrained Islamic mindset (72 FWBs waiting) likely contribute to the execution (for lack of a better term), but the fact that a plan was deemed necessary speaks more to the information the man processed than the irrational reaction to it.

If that makes sense.

We need to end these wars now. Bring them home.

[TheWraith]

24. Problem is that there's no history there.

How many Muslim soldiers are there in the US military, for the last 8 years of war, without going postal on anybody? I can think of only one other instance of a Muslim or Arabic soldier committing an act of violence against his fellow troops--the guy in 2003 who threw a grenade into his CO's tent because the guy felt he was being unfairly treated. There's no record of Muslim troops being a threat to their fellows.

Does anyone seriously think that somebody would get to the rank of Major in the United States Army if it was perceived that they had anti-American viewpoints? Not to mention, what would inspire somebody to take up a gun over religious angst NOW, when the US is on it's way out of Iraq?

[TwilightGardener]

26. True. There's no evidence his profession played a role, there's no evidence

that his religion played a role...but no one knows yet. It might have had to do with his conversion to Islam--sometimes new converts to a belief system are the most zealous. But we can't assume that--and we may never know.

[Codeine]

33. Actually it's becoming clear his religion did play a role.

So, yeah.

[TwilightGardener]

34. Yeah, I just read that.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

37. My thread was locked...

But I did see your reply in my thread, and I appreciate it.


This board would have 500 threads of condemnation if it had been a non-Muslim name. :eyes:



And get this... I'm a gay agnostic! I'm pissed at the Christians when they vote against gay marriage... but apparently it's forbidden to speak against any organized religion but Christianity.


I'll speak against any religion I want to (until my thread is closed).

[Codeine]

43. DU is insane when it comes to religion. nt

[Jennicut]

45. He had double the issues.

He was picked on by other soldiers because of his background and he was a psychiatrist listening daily to the crap other soldiers went through. And he was torn about us being over there when we were fighting Muslims and he is one.

[Codeine]

14. dupe

[southernyankeebelle]

18. Believe me as a wive of a retired soldier people have no idea what a soldier goes through when he

is stressed out. They are afraid to say anything because they worry that they will report him to his command and it will effect their job. Many soldiers have that fear especially the ones who want to make it a career. I have seen many soldiers who have buckled under such high stress. Sometimes they come to you and all they want to do is just talk to someone they can trust and know you won't repeat anything. The soldier sometimes gets harassment from the other soldiers and again they are afraid to say anything because he doesn't want to be a snitch. Sometimes they have martial problems because of their jobs. I remember when the soldiers would go out on a training weekend you would see some wives cheating on their husbands.

[Ruby the Liberal]

21. My ex was a Vietnam vet.

20+ years after the fact, he would wake up in a cold sweat, crying, after unexpected nightmares reliving the experience.

He would never discuss anything with me other than to joke about the heroin they all used to numb the emotions. Said I would never understand. He is right. I could empathize, but I don't think I would have ever understood.

[Hansel]

28. A good friend of my was also in Vietnam.

It was his job to pick up the remains of the dead. He has been in and out of mental institutions ever since. He got particularly bad after his sister was shot in the head by her best friends abusive boyfriend because she was helping her to leave him.

He would always talk about how you could not trust anyone over there. Smiling little kids, pretending to ask for candy would run up and through grenades in the trucks. He saw one guy who was set to go home the next day kick a small child in the head and kill him because he was so afraid he was going to die on his last day there and this boy was going to kill him. Turns out the little boy really just wanted candy.

He had horrible flashbacks and nearly stabbed me during one before I convinced him I was not an enemy. We had to part ways after that.

[Ruby the Liberal]

29. This story is likely emblematic of why he would never discuss this with me.

:(

[w8liftinglady]

30. my son once told me about 1/100th of what he carries inside

stories of holding buddines limbs and guts together so they could be medevaced...at 19!

[951-Riverside]

31. Someone FUCKED UP big time allowing this guy to remain in the Military...

Story: Fort Hood shooting: Nidal Malik Hasan 'said Muslims should rise up'
Source: The Telegraph
URL: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6511591/Fort-Hood-shooting-Nidal-Malik-Hasan-said-Muslims-should-rise-up.html

Col Terry Lee, a retired officer who worked with him at the military base in Texas, described angry confrontations between Maj Hasan and other officers after he expressed his views.

Maj Hasan was reportedly fighting orders to be deployed to Iraq at the end of the month, claiming that he was the victim of harassment and insults because of his Arab background and his faith.

The major was a psychiatrist who had been treating soldiers returning from Iraq for post-traumatic stress and alcohol and drug abuse problems.

"He was making outlandish comments condemning our foreign policy and claimed Muslims had the right to rise up and attack Americans," Col Lee told Fox News.

"He said Muslims should stand up and fight the aggressor and that we should not be in the war in the first place." He said that Maj Hasan said he was "happy" when a US soldier was killed in an attack on a military recruitment centre in Arkansas in June. An American convert to Islam was accused of the shootings.

Col Lee said that other officers had told him that Maj Hasan had said "maybe people should strap bombs on themselves and go to Time Square" in New York.

He said he was aware that the major had been subject to "name calling" during heated arguments with other officers.

[TwilightGardener]

32. Christ. How stupid is it to let this man stay in the military, AND provoke him?

[jesus_of_suburbia]

40. Very stupid... he should have been forced into a mental hospital.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

39. Wow... this guy should have been put in a mental hospital long ago.

[alittlelark]

47. If America was occupied by China

Who attacked because we refused to service our debt (or whatever). Would we bow down? What would we do?

This is an educated man who reached a breaking point - we are ALL capable of reaching a breaking point - his was on 'steroids'.


This country has done hideous things all over the world. Our military is 1/2 of our budget. We have bases in something like 120 countries.



We are the enemy to most of the oppressed and thinking world.


It sucks - so does blowback.



This was a very smart man that just plain 'LOST IT'. He's likely listened to hundreds of horror stories...............................




If we continue on our course there will be more.:evilfrown:

[Electric Monk]

50. Red flags all over the place

Major Hasan was an "accident" waiting to happen.



He was right though, in that we shouldn't have been in the Iraq or Afghan wars in the first place. I blame GW Bush for that, totally. Bush (and friends) wanted those wars in 1999 and he got em.

[deaniac21]

46. It's been my experience that shrinks are the craziest people

around.

[earth mom]

49. Maybe people on this board should start thinking how fucking bad war is instead of cheering Obama's

role in continuing the ENDLESS wars over there.

Stop the killing.

Stop the greed for oil.

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

51. I hear you.

All the "anti-war" sentiment on DU over the last seven years wasn't anti-war sentiment, it was anti-Bush sentiment.

[earth mom]

52. Yes, but I also think the current crop of warmongers here have scared many anti-war DUers away...

A bit of both perhaps? x(

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

55. Maybe,

I just wish certain Democrats (here on DU, and those in elected office) would worry more about doing what's right instead of trying to look "tough".

[morgan2]

53. how bad is it for the military when a psychiatrist

can shoot up 40 soldiers before he's stopped. someone needs to whip them into shape..

[EFerrari]

54. That's the same thought I've had all day.

:(