Sorry, Christians.

[Toasterlad]

I hope that nothing I posted today hurt your feelings. I should have realized that, on a day after marriage rights were stripped from the people of Maine by bigoted religious people, that we should be considerate of how that must make you feel.

Sorry again.

[Joe Chi Minh]

1. I haven't read your post, but don't mention it.

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. Hey, you are rightfully hurt and pissed off. I totally understand. I'm pissed at

the bigoted Christians(TM) who once again forced their theocratic agenda on everyone else: gay-rights supporting christians and members of other religions, gay-rights supporting atheists, gay-rights supporting agnostics, gay-rights supporting straights......and the big losers in this whole mess, the gays who only want the same rights and class status as their straight fellow citizens.

We will get there someday, but I am truly sorry that yesterday wasn't the day.

[el_bryanto]

3. Can't tell if this is sarcasm or not.

My gut tells me this is sarcasm, and it's more of an FU to DU Christians. But I could be wrong.

Bryant

[SidDithers]

6. I read it as sarcasm...

and that's why I give it a big K&R.

Sid

[hlthe2b]

4. You do realize that many or even most "true" Christians are

liberal progressives and are socially progressive as well, don't you? Why paint them with the shame of the RW fundie poseurs? Seems to me a better strategy would be to try to activate the liberal progressive Christian faction against the hypocritic Xians rather than engaging in such sarcastic denigration and unfocused blame, however cathartic that might feel at the moment.

[SidDithers]

7. How can you be sure that the RW fundies aren't the "true" Christians...

and the liberal progressives aren't the poseurs?

Sid

[cbdo2007]

16. Um...maybe because the RW fundies aren't doing what Jesus said?

I think that's what the poster means by them not being "true" Christians.

[trotsky]

28. Maybe because they say YOU'RE the ones not doing what Jesus said?

You both have bible verses to back yourself up - you just pick & choose different ones than they do.

[cbdo2007]

30. Right, I'm picking all of the Bible verses that are exactly what Jesus preached. They pick & choose

random ones from wherever they can to try to make their point.

It's two different philosophies. Either you live your life based on what Jesus preached and how he lived or you live your life and try to use Christianity to justify whatever you do.

Jesus never said anything about gay marriage or even homosexuality being wrong. He did say don't judge others though.

[piratefish08]

34. The RW Fundies are doing exactly what the bible says. THAT'S the problem.

Jesus approved of the laws in the OT.

[hlthe2b]

36. No... they are picking and choosing and exploiting the old testament

ignoring totally, the new testament...

[LanternWaste]

37. Many of the OT laws were specifically directed...

Many of the OT laws were specifically directed towards the priestly caste of the Israelite, e.g., the book of Leviticus is a book of laws written by the priestly caste (the Levites) for the priestly caste. The vast majority of the tenets in that particular book are to be followed only by the Levites, with some to be followed by the tribe of Israel, and only a few to be followed by humanity in general.

[roguevalley]

48. where did he say that?

[hlthe2b]

25. One would think those who profess to be "followers" of Jesus

would actually "follow" his tenets... RW xians don't even seem to regard the New Testament as part of the bible, since it does not include the passages they love to bastardize and exploit to their own bigoted ends.

[cbdo2007]

27. True dat! In my view the New Testament is much more important from a Christian

perspective because it has Jesus telling us which stuff from the Old Testament shoudl be followed and what is wacky.

[BurtWorm]

8. You mean the Catholics who voted against marriage equality aren't true Christians?

What a confusing religion, that has true and false members.

[Chan790]

24. Why not...

as a religion they've had countless popes and anti-popes...all of whom thought they were the real pope and the other guy was a heretic who needed to be burned alive surrounded by his 100's closest friends. If that's not proof of true and false Catholics or just false Catholics, I don't know that is. (Disclosure: Chan790 was a student in the Catholic seminary before he "washed-out" disillusioned with the hierarchy of the church. I think Catholics are great, it's the Vatican I've no use for. I think they've been misleading the flock since they didn't tell Saint Paul to GTFO ~1990 years ago.)

[hlthe2b]

26. Not all Catholics agree with this bigoted Bishop....

You might give that a bit of consideration. I may not be Catholic, but I know many, if not most American Catholics do not agree with the Pope on birth control, bans against pre-marital sex and many other official tenets of that religion.

Lump and stereotype all you wish... you only exclude many willing supporters from your cause by doing so...

[BurtWorm]

31. It's you, apparently, who holds the key to the meaning of 'true' Christian.

Don't look at me. You're the one who has the power to distinguish the good Catholics from the bad ones.

[hlthe2b]

38. Such BS...

If you can read, all one needs to do is read the new testament and then apply that side by side with what the RW Xians preach... There is no contest. Whether they are "good" or not is not the issue. The issue is whether they follow and espouse the teachings of Jesus Christ. They do not. I'm not religious at all, but I can recognize hypocrisy and paradox when I see it.

As to the disparity in Catholic beliefs-- that has been the case through the millenia. Even supposed infallible POPES have been declared quite the contrary in later centuries...

[BurtWorm]

39. A Christian is not someone who follows the teachings of Jesus Christ. That would be a Jesusist.

A Christian is a member of the Christian religion.

[hlthe2b]

40. A Christian is a follwer of Christ... call them a Jesuist if you wish...

LOLOL

[BurtWorm]

41. That's just not true, what you're saying. A Christian is a member of a Christian religion.

Trust me, it's much easier to keep track of them that way. You don't have to submit each one to a hypothetical test each time. They're either members of the religion or they're not.

[hlthe2b]

42. So , now YOU hold the answers to who IS and is NOT a Christian

Do you not appreciate the irony?



Choose as you wish....

Definitions of christian on the Web:

* relating to or characteristic of Christianity; "Christian rites"
* a religious person who believes Jesus is the Christ and who is a member of a Christian denomination
* following the teachings or manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus Christ
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn


* The Georgian Apostolic Autocephalous Orthodox Church (საქართველოს სამოციქულო მართლმადიდებელი ავტოკეფალური ეკლესია, sakartvelos samocikulo martlmadidebeli avtok'epaluri ek'lesia) is one ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_(Georgian_Orthodox)


* Christian music is music that has been written to express either personal or a communal belief regarding Christian life and faith. Common themes of Christian music include praise, worship, penitence, and lament, and its forms vary widely across the world.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_(music)


* A Christian is a person who adheres to Christianity, a monotheistic religion centered on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth and claimed ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian


* Christian is a popular first name and surname in Northern Europe. The use of Christian as a personal name derives from its use to describe ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_(name)


* William Jason "Jay" Reso (born November 30, 1973), is a Canadian professional wrestler and actor. He is currently signed with World Wrestling ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_(professional_wrestler)


* A believer in Christianity; An individual who seeks to live his or her life according to the principles and values taught by Jesus Christ; Of ...
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/christian


* christ - Jesus: a teacher and prophet born in Bethlehem and active in Nazareth; his life and sermons form the basis for Christianity (circa 4 BC - AD 29)
* christ - messiah: any expected deliverer
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn


* christianity - a monotheistic system of beliefs and practices based on the Old Testament and the teachings of Jesus as embodied in the New Testament and ...
* christianity - Christendom: the collective body of Christians throughout the world and history (found predominantly in Europe and the Americas and Australia); "for a thousand years the Roman Catholic Church was the principal church of Christendom"
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn


* The Christians are a soul-influenced sophisti-pop band from Liverpool, England, who scored several UK and international chart hits in the late ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Christians_(band)


* Christianese - The following is a list of terms used in Christianity. Complete definitions of these terms, and additional sources, may be found in the full ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianese

[BurtWorm]

43. My answers are easier than yours,

I just say, "Are you a Christian?" and if they say yes, they're a Christian! You have to guesstimate what's going on in their brains and hearts.

[hlthe2b]

47. Mine are far more descriminating... and therefore...

less likely to paint all believers with the same brush of intolerance....

[KittyWampus]

46. sort of like who is a true Democrat and who is a DINO.

[walldude]

45. If that is true then you need a much louder voice.

Because you are being drowned out by bigotry and hate.

[cbdo2007]

5. That's ok. Everybody needs someone to blame.

[cbdo2007]

11. And I'll add that most people blame groups/people they understand the least.

[gratuitous]

9. Uh huh

"Love the sinner but hate the sin," is that it? I can tell you, I've worked on progressive causes with people who appreciate the effort, and those who'd prefer I just drop dead. It's pretty hard to tell the difference between the death wishers who are hidebound conservative knuckleheads and alleged progressives. But I've been told in other threads that the broad brush nonsense isn't "real" prejudice and discrimination, so we're all pals, right?

[stray cat]

10. Blanket bigotry isn't a progressive value no matter who you lump together

but YOUR BIGOTRY is your right just as others have the right to be bigoted toward you I guess.

[PVnRT]

20. Let me know when gays get the power to strip Christians of their rights

[treestar]

32. If/when they do, will that bigotry be excused?

You're still stereotyping a group, when you wouldn't allow it for a group you belong to.

[Mari333]

12. there are gay christians

www.gaychristians.org

however there are also idiots who use the word christian to describe themselves who are actually insidious twits who need to be slapped into oblivion.

love you

[Toasterlad]

18. .

[Tsar_Bomba]

13. I'm not sorry

[Ozymanithrax]

14. In the privacy of the voting booth, many otherwise liberal Christians will vote to deny...

gays and lesbians equal rights. We saw that in California. I'll bet it happened in Main.

There are many people who are progressive on Health care, national defense, and economics but are aghast at the idea of gay people enjoying the same benefits they have as husband and wife.

In my opinion, a law that grants all the benefits of marriage but the license is just separate but equal all over again. This nation put up with separate but equal until Brown Vs. the Board of Education put that lie down. I suspect it will be the same with equal rights for gays.

[Horse with no Name]

15. Do we also have to be respectful to the KKK members who

terrorize the country?
Same difference.

[seabeyond]

49. slight difference. all kkk is hate of minorities. minority of christians are anti gays. nt

[fascisthunter]

17. very good post

we can distinguish between those bigots and the church themsleves... not all carry the same water as these churches do.

[underseasurveyor]

19. I like to make the distinction by using 'fundie'

All fundamentalists are whacked no matter what their affiliation is. I have friends of all faiths and with the exception of one or two, their hearts and minds are in the right place and I would hope I never offend any of them and never would intentionally. The one or two I mentioned I do goad them a little now and then

[JerseygirlCT]

21. Haven't seen your post, but this Christian has spent the day

sad and angry over what happened in Maine. It's frustrating, and that's not nearly a good enough word for it.

It sucks. It's wrong.

[la_chupa]

22. how did the Civil Rights Act of 1964 get enacted?

Oh sure I could look it up, but that would take effort. My point is, I promise there are parts of the country that would NOT have voted for the Civil Rights Act.

Hell that jackweed judge wouldn't do mixed race marriages what last week.

The point is, I don't think it is exactly fair that basic rights are something that one group should be able to vote to allow or disallow another group.

I have also failed to see any valid argument from anyone as to why gay marriage should not be allowed.

note: A "valid" argument is not one that invoked any sort of sacred text unless all parties involved agree on its use and unless you agree to let me use the Hitchhikers' Guide to the Galaxy as my sacred text, you cannot use the Bible as yours.

[Bluenorthwest]

23. They need to get used to what it is like when one is a member

of an anti-minority, anti-equality activist group. Those that say 'I'm not that' have lackadaisically allowed the others to define them, and so they are defined that way. They never fought it. Never organized against even the likes of Phelps. They sat and silently held their coats.
Anyone who would take umbrage that one is angry that their community harmed ours is not a person of any sort of faith, not in God, not in man, not in America. They should be begging our forgiveness, as their religion teaches them to do. If they get mocked for their faith, that faith teaches them they should rejoice in that, and love those who mock them. If they do not do that, they are not following their own faith, and thus have nothing to whine about at all. They are the ones in the wrong. Period. For they are the ones with commands to follow that they never, ever do about interaction with others. The few who are decent are being kind. The rest speak for themselves.

[DainBramaged]

29. Not a problem

I love Jesus, not bricks and mortar and organized religion that dictates morals for the immoral.

No offense taken, you deserve ALL of the rights I enjoy, period, no discussion. maybe if we wait a couple of years, the people with entrenched hatred for love will be gone and we can try again. I KNOW waiting sucks, but until we take away IRS non-taxable status from these institutions that participate in the political process, this kid of hatred will continue.

[LanternWaste]

33. delete dupe

dupe

[LanternWaste]

35. I imagine we all of us...

I imagine we all of us-- Christian, Muslim, Atheist, Agnostic, et. al. go out of our way to hurt people's feelings from time to time for no other reason than its own sake.

But I usually attribute that type of boorish and inconsiderate behavior to the culture we live en toto in rather than a specific belief system/world view.

[raw oysters]

44. Here is a way to get a blank stare from a homophobic "christian": Ask him to cite

anything, one single thing that Jesus ever said about homosexuality. Not the OT, not Saul the terrorist of Tarsus, but Jesus the very icon of their self-identified religion.

[pinto]

50. We're locking this.

The loss in Maine was disheartening, to say the least, yet there are Christians that are supportive of equal civil rights for the GLBT community.

We feel that a broad brush slam on all Christians is analagous to regional slams, racial slams, gender slams, sexuality slams and other religious slams.

The point of this lock is the broad brush.

Thanks all.