Jesus FUCK how did 1 pass in Maine????

[Taverner]

Shit this just goes to show me the average voter is a soulless idiot with shit for brains

Honestly - whomever is running our side of these gay marriage referendums (that is the pro-gay marriage side) - stop. You suck. This makes what, 7 for 7???

You really sucked the last time we had one here in CA.

And it looks like you sucked in ME too...

[MineralMan]

1. People's rights should never be subject to an election.

We need a SCOTUS decision or an act of Congress. Rights are not subject to majority rule.

[Taverner]

2. Oh I agree...We'd still be keeping slaves if it were up to a referendum

[polmaven]

3. Actually,

I think it is 31 for 31!

[Toasterlad]

4. It Is Not the Fault of the Campaign Leaders That People Vote for Hate.

[KittyWampus]

5. If you can't market/frame/package your message effectively, it most certainly is the campaign.

or at least, that is a significant part of the problem.

[Toasterlad]

7. The Problem Is The Bigots Who Voted to Remove Civil Rights From People.

You shouldn't need a TV ad to tell you not to hate people. You shouldn't need someone knocking on your door to tell you that all people should be equal.

Your message of blame the victim is not welcome.

[KittyWampus]

12. a victim who remains passive or refuses to engage in both EFFECTIVE offensive and defensive strategy

is likely to continue getting hurt.

That is an objective assessment of reality.

How many threads did you start or participate about this crap in Maine BEFORE last night?

I admit to not spending much time on DU lately. Maybe there were quite a threads about it over the last month trying to raise awareness, raise money and brainstorm.

I'd love to see the ads Pro-Gay advocates ran in Maine.

And it'd be interesting to see what the bigots ran too.

[Toasterlad]

16. Please Don't Lecture Me on Activism

I have given both money and time. Yet, I do not blame those gay people who do NOT contribute time or money for the anti-gay hate in this country. I blame the people who hate gay people.

We ran a good campaign in Maine. We learned from what happened in California, and we adjusted our tactics. Our contributions were good, and our feedback was positive.

And we still lost.

Not because we didn't try. Not because we didn't try ENOUGH.

Because there are a lot of fucking bigoted assholes who hate gay people.

That is NOT our fault.

[KittyWampus]

18. I'm not "blaming those gay people" either. The topic was the CAMPAIGN. And if you ran a good

campaign in Maine, congratulations. I didn't even know about it. Did the majority of DUers?

I'd really love to see the ads you ran in Maine.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WI_DEM]

9. well how would you go about it?

[KittyWampus]

10. Did tv ads run in Maine showing gay couples in a sympathetic light explaining their position?

Were there any NEGATIVE ads exposing where the money for this crap came from?

I have no idea.

DU'ers seem so very passionate about Gay Rights after this crap happens.

Did anyone post any of the ads PRO-gay fighters had going?

Did anyone post any of the ads the bigots had going?

[Toasterlad]

17. How Dare You Lecture Us When You Don't Know What We Did?

Get your ass on Google and find the fucking ads yourself. How dare you come here the day after our hearts got ripped out and blame US for failing?

How much did YOU fucking give to No on 1? How many phone calls did YOU make? How many doors did YOU knock on?

How dare you lecture US when you weren't even in the fight?

[KittyWampus]

20. Again, the topic of the thread is the CAMPAIGN & LEADERSHIP. My comments about DU are valid-

many DU'ers (gay and straight) are understandably outraged today.

Is it really so horrible to ask where was the outrage and information and leadership over Maine BEFORE LAST NIGHT?

You talk about me not "being in the fight" but it sure didn't seem like many other DU'ers were either in regards to Maine.

Might have missed it here on DU and if I did I apologize.

[YOY]

6. Putting legal issues to the popular vote is both incredibly wrong and brings idiots out in droves.

Rovian tactic. 100%

[boobooday]

11. That's right. The courts made a decision - they are there to balance the rights of the minority

Against the ignorance/prejudice of the majority. Which is exactly the way it worked in CA and ME. This should be unconstitutional, to put a minority's civil rights to a vote. Not negotiable.

[WI_DEM]

8. It's not the people who run the campaign--it's the ignorance of voters in blue and red states

many want civil unions but not recognized marriage. To blame the organizers is not right. They work hard. What are they supposed to do? lie and say it isn't gay marriage?

[Taverner]

13. Yes and no

I saw how well the Yes on 8 folks were organized, and I saw how piss poor the No on 8 folks were organized

I know they didn't do it on purpose, but we need a change of management for Darwin's sake

[AngryOldDem]

14. NOW will they finally strip the Church of its tax-exempt status??? n/t

[jpljr77]

15. What message is being used on the pro side?

I haven't really seen any advertising for (I saw plenty against on the Internet during the Prop 8 thing).

The thing that really got me solidly in the pro-same sex marriage camp was a story I heard about a woman being denied visitation rights to her partner in the hospital. I then saw a lot of similar stories. Also, a story about a couple in Alabama (I think) where one died suddenly, without a will, and all of his assets were given to his bigoted family who had refused to talk to him for years. The only thing his partner got was what the court deemed common property, stuff they had bought together (TV, furniture, etc.) They had been together for 11 years and living together for 10.

That's what hits people, I think. Basic legal rights being shredded because a couple isn't "married." Even common-law same sex couples have more rights.

Is that part of the messaging on these campaigns?

[AngryOldDem]

19. Once in a Catholic group meeting...

...a lawyer in the group made the same argument to a priest that same-sex couples, without the legalities of marriage, are denied almost all basic rights. She specifically cited a case she handled where one partner became ill, and that partner's family suddenly came out of the woodwork after years of cutting that person out of their lives, and took over all the decision-making that should, by rights, have been made by the other partner -- even to the extent of denying the partner hospital visitation rights. The lawyer went on to describe other situations, such as property issues and such, and then asked the priest if he had any rebuttal to the fact that same-sex couples are entitled to the same rights and protections as the rest of us, and merely because they are gay, are denied them.

The priest had no answer other than to admit the lawyer made some excellent points. I was glad that he had to admit the foolishness and hatred of Church thought on this issue in front of a room full of people.

[KamaAina]

26. Reason No. 84,762 why domestic partnerships, civil unions, etc. are not sufficient

I just learned that domestic partnerships (at least in CA) can be dissolved if the couple is no longer living together -- for instance, if one partner is admitted to a nursing home.

[jpljr77]

31. I agree. And I'm not for partnerships, unions, etc. It should be marriage.

My basic point is that the only ads I've seen on the pro same sex marriage side are humorous ones, that mostly bash the other side (rightly) for their positions. Can someone please point me to some sober, straight-faced persuasive ads that have run in CA or ME?

The message of abridged civil rights is a very powerful one, imo.

[jpljr77]

27. It's a powerful argument. I would really just love to know how often it's presented...

to the voting public.

I'm not excusing bigots and narrow minded people. I just wonder if they really know what they're voting for.

[GreenPartyVoter]

21. It wasn't the Vote For NO peoples' fault, it was the huge money coming in from the religious people

It was CA all over again.

[KittyWampus]

23. are you saying there weren't a lot of Pro-gay CA residents with tons of money to donate

that could have countered the influx from out of state?

Hollywood?

Politics involves two opposing sides.

If one side is more organized then the losing side needs to review their strategy and adapt because it doesn't matter how righteous their cause is.

Simply being right doesn't mean you win in politics.

[GreenPartyVoter]

24. So where was the money? Why is it so hard to outspend the other guys? :^(

[Johonny]

25. I think we are saying the "gay Agenda" is a myth

and gay people tend to be like everyone else and vote for both republicans and democrats, conservative and liberal causes. The thought they are one giant organize political mass hell bent on pushing their anti-American agenda is simply silly. Yes there are rich gay people. They are however not well organized into one political force. They certainly aren't united to promote some magic agenda.

[mainer]

30. We DID have a lot of money. And a lot was spent.

My husband and I personally gave a thousand dollars to the cause, and a lot of money came from out of state.

But in the end, even money couldn't change the minds of the religious, the conservatives, and the poor rural voters who are skeered to death of those gay folks.

[GreenPartyVoter]

32. Do you think we could put it back to vote again during a major election year? Would we

get more votes for our side then? (Not that it should be up for vote in the first place. *sigh*)

[jonnyblitz]

28. this thread is fucking SICKENING. stop blaming the VICTIMS nt

[Taverner]

33. The organizers are not the victims

[mainer]

29. Can the Maine Supreme Court rule on this?

It seems to me that the judiciary is the only way this can be made right. After all, a referendum cannot legally take away the rights of black people, even if a majority votes for it. Can't the Maine Supreme Court call this unconstitutional discrimination?