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Maine-ah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 01:47 AM
Original message
To our GBLT friends: I'm sorry.
Edited on Wed Nov-04-09 01:47 AM by Maine-ah
I'm sorry that in this country that human rights gets to be voted on. I'm pissed as hell that religions/churches/religious groups are able to change laws and still maintain tax exempt status. I'm pissed at the people in this state that allowed their vote to be influenced by out of state organizations.

I would like to know the % of income that all religious groups spent on this. Everyone who is tax exempt...I want to know how fucking much.....AND if there isn't a law about how much they can actually spend, there should be. Their parishioners can vote how ever they damn well please, but tax exempt groups should not be able to pull this kind of shit.

A quote from the msnbc story:

"We're here for the long haul and whether it's just all night and into the morning, or it's next week or next month or next year, we will be here," said Jesse Connolly, manager of the pro-gay marriage campaign. "We'll be here fighting. We'll be working. We will regroup."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33609492/ns/politics-more_p...
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Heidi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 01:48 AM
Response to Original message
1. Recommended.
:kick:
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 01:48 AM
Response to Original message
2. Thank you
:hi:
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Maine-ah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. your welcome
:hug:
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 01:51 AM
Response to Original message
4. Again the religious freak-a-zoids shove their tired old dogma down our throats.
And again, though much quieter this time, the mormon church is a PRIME player in the war to defeat gay rights.

They won a battle, not the war. It's time to start attacking religious groups that dare to spend their tithes and donations influencing political actions.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. Yes - focus on the ones who are spending $ against GLBT people
as I have read pastors, parishioners, and other religious indivuals stories of why they were voting NO to show support for GLBT people. it's not all of them, it's a certain highly conservative group of these Baptist/Mormon/etc churches who are doing this and they should be held accountable for actively keeping rights from people, and called out for it. I loved seeing people going to the Mormon churches and protesting!

Shame them, it works! They're embarrassed because they should be.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #4
68. Amen!
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CitizenLeft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 01:51 AM
Response to Original message
5. I'm sorry too.
Don't give up. Keep pushing. "We'll be here fighting. We'll be working. We will regroup." Please do.
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tishaLA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 01:51 AM
Response to Original message
6. It's incredibly fucked up
I cannot believe this happens over and over again. It's just pathetic.
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #6
87. that is the word for it pathetic.
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underseasurveyor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 01:51 AM
Response to Original message
7. Here in California we still feel bad
and I'm sorry we suck x( I had my hopes up for Maine too.

We'll get there it just means that when it finally does happen it will be all the sweeter.

But still, it saddens me :-(
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. exactly how I feel!
and I was in CA for that vote. :( Such a bittersweet night. I was touched when Obama still mentioned Gay people in the acceptance speech when the most Americans more than likely ever heard him talk at one time other than possibly the day time inauguration.
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underseasurveyor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 02:22 AM
Response to Reply #9
15. I really thought it was a go and frankly I was surprised
I know so many worked so hard and it really felt like we had it going on on our side. I thought California was cooler than that.

Well that just means we keep on truckin' until we get it done! Hugs for you :hug:
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. and...
hugs for you to, friend! :hug:

It will come in time. I think, truly, that if it is on the 2012 ballot it will pass this time. I was hoping Maine would come through, and they did great up there - such hard work - but I'm hoping none of this will be necessary if we can get the Supreme Court to rule on it.
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underseasurveyor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 02:43 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Always and forever
in solidarity MY friend :loveya:
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Kajsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #7
50. Yes we do, in fact I am beyond sad and
Edited on Wed Nov-04-09 09:48 AM by Kajsa
very pissed at all the lying BS the Fundies pulled to get 8 passed!!

As a teacher, it's very infuriating to hear ANYONE claim we
" teach gay marriage" to our students.

Just how in the hell do you do that?!?

I must have skipped that lecture in one of my Ed. classes, working
towards my credential. ( don't need a sarcasm smilie, do I?)

:(

Maine, I am so sorry- apparently the Fundies pulled the same
fear mongering BS there and it worked.

:grr:
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 01:54 AM
Response to Original message
8. I believe the open-minded religious types made a difference this time & will continue to do so!
Edited on Wed Nov-04-09 01:55 AM by Divine Discontent
Just think if this vote took place in 1959 - it would have been 85-15 in favor of it.

I read a conservative woman's interview in one of the Maine papers, and she said she thought about it, and she couldn't see how in the world she could vote against someone's LOVE of another person.

We're making inroads - most of those people who did vote YES on 1 called themselves "Christian", surely, but you can bet that a very large majority of the NO on 1's called themselves the same thing.

So, although it's already turned into a "f*ck the religious - send them to the lions again" night, and I understand the anger, we have to gain hope that so many people voted NO on 1! That's great - next time, we'll get 1.5-2% changing their minds and put us over the 50% mark.

I don't think we should hang our heads at all! Plus, Washington State's equal rights for Gay domestic partners compared to married couples is ahead with a few more days of counting to go!
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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 02:01 AM
Response to Original message
11. Don't be sorry.
It's not your fault.

If you want to "be" something about all this, then BE MAD.
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underseasurveyor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 02:27 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. MAD comes after feeling sad
Fucking bastards...... We will get it done and then we will party but until then... you're right!
:mad:thanks for the kick in in the pants.
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ezgoingrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 02:11 AM
Response to Original message
12. I'm sorry too.
It is disgusting that there can be a vote whether or not to give citizens of this country their civil rights. It pisses me off. Please, don't give up. The tide will turn, not fast enough but it will turn.
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FlyingSquirrel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 02:17 AM
Response to Original message
13. .
in solidarity
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 02:20 AM
Response to Original message
14. Me too. Even HAVING this on a ballot for the populace to decide is wrong.
R 71 in WA is passing, but results won't be complete for days because it is all mail in ballots.

http://vote.wa.gov/Elections/WEI/Results.aspx?RaceTypeC...
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #14
103. Absolutely -- Our Constitution should simply be in play in every case ...
and that means "equality for all" -- nothing else.

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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 02:34 AM
Response to Original message
17. K&R, it's the long haul
but in solidarity, always, forever..
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 03:12 AM
Response to Original message
20. Recommend
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 03:43 AM
Response to Original message
21. +1
Too sad.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 03:53 AM
Response to Original message
22. Indeed. A nation that got its start from men from the Enlightenment
has completely abandoned the idea of being enlightened in the 21st century.
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Chemisse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 04:11 AM
Response to Original message
23. I am sorry too - and for all of us, gay or straight
Because the hate stains us all, just by being out there, acted upon, and succeeding.
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 05:37 AM
Response to Original message
24. K&R. nt
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peacefreak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 05:46 AM
Response to Original message
25. Standing proudly with Maine-ah.
When I was in the voting booth, I thought of all the wonderful people that deserved the same rights as so many of us take for granted. I breaks my heart that they still don't have them. I am angry that once again out of state interests have manipulated the issues to their own narrow agenda.
I will stand once again for my friends & family until they have the same rights as the rest of us.
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Ruby the Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 05:51 AM
Response to Original message
26. Recommend.
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 06:11 AM
Response to Original message
27. ditto
to the glbt community: know that there are many people gay and straight who recognize your struggle for what it is: civil rights, which not one person should be denied.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 06:12 AM
Response to Original message
28. You made an awesome effort. Don't stop trying. You're going to win soon.
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ChicagoSuz219 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 06:17 AM
Response to Original message
29. I'm sorry, too, and...
...if I live to be 1,000 I'll never understand how, if a gay couple gets married, it impacts my life one iota.

I seriously do NOT understand why this is such a big issue for people. What the hell are they afraid of? What am I missing? I just don't get it...
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Maine-ah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. the bastards are down to arguing about a word
Edited on Wed Nov-04-09 08:38 AM by Maine-ah
it's a dumb ass argument that the word marriage specifically belongs to religious institutions. They're using this argument to cover their bigotry.
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
31. You can't say you're sorry.
Because you didn't do anything wrong.

It's all the RW, religious, homophobic bigots out there who should be apologizing. But that'll be a cold day in hell.

But thanks anyway.
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
32. K&R
:-(
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Ishoutandscream2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
33. "I'm pissed as hell that religion/churches/ religious groups
are able to change laws and still maintain tax exempt status." Excellent statement.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
34. Bigots have no rigght to vote away the rights of others!
:grr:
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
35. I just hope DU takes it easier on the people of Maine...
...than we did on the people of California.

That was some bullshit right there.
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TommyO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
36. Thank you Maine-ah
I know that there are plenty of good people in Maine who didn't vote to discriminate against gay people and our families.

My initial reaction though is, "fuck Maine." Yes, I know that is my anger speaking, and time will temper it, but please understand that many of us are truly hurt and angry at the discrimination we face at the hands of the electorate (and the fact that our rights are up for popular vote in the first place).

Of course, I'm facing a double-whammy, living in NJ and having Christie as our new governor.

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Maine-ah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. .
:hug:
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eShirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
38. +99999999999
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sonias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
39. Heartbreaking
I am so sorry that bigots and uninformed people feel so scared that they vote against people.

But you never give up. One day there will be equality in this country. We all wish it would come sooner.

Good diary on DK with some hope
Daily Kos Diary 11/4/09
UPDATED-LGBT Rights: Yes, we lost Maine. But we WON Kalamazoo (& probably Washington) & elsewhere!

(snip)
The anti-discrimination ballot proposal in Kalamazoo, Michigan PASSED!

(snip)
UPDATE: As pointed out in the Comments by a variety of folks, St. Petersburg, Florida has now elected its first openly-gay City Council member Steve Kornell, Chapel Hill, North Carolina elected its first openly-gay mayor Mark Kleinschmidt, and one of the two people that will go into a run-off election in five weeks for mayor of Houston is Annise Parker, a lesbian, who was the leading vote-getter.


And this also happened this week in Austin, TX
City of Austin expands same-sex benefits. It took a long time too. I was living in Austin in 1994 when voters repealed a city policy that extended benefits to domestic partners. It was a very ugly fight. Finally under the radar so to speak the new city council did the right thing.

Sonia

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mimitabby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
40. GOOD NEWS IN THE STATE OF WASHINGTON!
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #40
43. Indeed it is. nt
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Kajsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #40
45. Yes it is!

It's the one bright spot here.
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Balderdash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #40
60. I Know I should be feeling good about this but
"Everything but Marriage" law? :(

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underseasurveyor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #60
66. Yea that part grabbed my gut too
It's something I suppose but it still can't be called a victory IMO.

EQUAL Rights for EVERYONE
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FedUp_Queer Donating Member (679 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #60
96. YAY!!!!! SEPARATE BUT EQUAL.
Pardon me if I turn down the champagne.
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Politicub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #40
63. This brings tears to my eyes - to think the tide may be turning
At least fairness exists in some corners of the US. But there is still much work to do to disallow people being able to vote away human rights.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
41. K&R
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
42. K & R!
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BREMPRO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
44. I have Catholic friends here in Maine- the told me they were strongly urged
to vote yes (to repeal the gay marriage law) by their pastors. THis was primarily a church/religious based effort. ALL churches that advocated for this referendum should have their tax exempt status reviewed and repealed.
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CatholicEdHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #44
48. I read the Catholic effort was intenste
Edited on Wed Nov-04-09 09:46 AM by CatholicEdHead
Maine's bishops pulled out all the stops, FORCING every pastor to preach on it (Yes Stance)for 6 weeks straight. One pastor even removed one woman from her weekend ministry duties because she wrote an op-ed to a local paper urging a No stance on this referendum. It sounded like it was mean and vindictive and the Catholic community in Maine has some deep wounds over this for no reason. The people are open minded, the bishops are still way out of touch.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #44
70. Not only the Catholics. I know of Protestant churches (or church members) that were
into the whole mess as well.
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NotNarrow Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #44
75. If Obama had guts...
He'd recall our ambassador to the Vatican for consultation. As with any other nation, the Vatican cannot interfere in the internal affairs of the U.S. If that doesn't work, how about conducting intimidating air maneuvers.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #44
105. Agree...and we should remember the right wing and Churches never quit . . .
nor should any of us quit on providing equality for all --
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skepticscott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #44
111. Why?
Where in the law regarding political activity of tax-exempt organizations does it forbid what they did?
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BREMPRO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-05-09 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #111
140. churches tax exempt status prohibits them from advocating for or against candidates and limits their
lobbying activity including referendums. They can provide education on issues, but there are limits on the money, time and resources spend on such efforts. From what i've seen here, there is a case that they have crossed the line into overt advocacy- from IRS.GOV: "too much lobbying activity risks loss of tax-exempt status."
:

http://www.irs.gov/charities/article/0,,id=163392,00.ht...

In general, no organization may qualify for section 501(c)(3) status if a substantial part of its activities is attempting to influence legislation (commonly known as lobbying). A 501(c)(3) organization may engage in some lobbying, but too much lobbying activity risks loss of tax-exempt status.

Legislation includes action by Congress, any state legislature, any local council, or similar governing body, with respect to acts, bills, resolutions, or similar items (such as legislative confirmation of appointive office), or by the public in referendum, ballot initiative, constitutional amendment, or similar procedure. It does not include actions by executive, judicial, or administrative bodies.

An organization will be regarded as attempting to influence legislation if it contacts, or urges the public to contact, members or employees of a legislative body for the purpose of proposing, supporting, or opposing legislation, or if the organization advocates the adoption or rejection of legislation.

Organizations may, however, involve themselves in issues of public policy without the activity being considered as lobbying. For example, organizations may conduct educational meetings, prepare and distribute educational materials, or otherwise consider public policy issues in an educational manner without jeopardizing their tax-exempt status.


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demmiblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
46. K&R
:cry:
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ensho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
47. its the religiously insane that has ruined our country - US mullahs


the religiously insane are disgusting people
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #47
89. they are a small minority why do they have to dictate or shove
their sick beliefs on other people, no such thing as tolerance.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
49. Not your fault, but thanks for saying it
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Maine-ah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #49
51. .
:hug:
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
52. I am sorry I did nothing this year to GOTV
There is enough blame to cast it towards ourselves

say what you will about all the factors, if we progressives (not Democrats) had a good GOTV campaign, this might not have happened
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
53. sorry and embarassed.
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druidqueen Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
54. More apologies from Maine
Here is a copy of the letter I sent to Bishop Malone of the Portland Catholic diocese (I have yet to receive a response):

Bishop Richard Malone
Roman Catholic Diocese of Portland Maine
510 Ocean Avenue
P.O. Box 11559
Portland, ME 04104

Dear Bishop Malone,

It is with a heavy heart that I write this letter to you. Be assured that I have put this to prayer over these last several weeks. I am now writing to you about the diocese and your position on Maine Question 1.

Three weeks ago at Mass, I was most disturbed to have the sacred liturgy interrupted by your political infomercial. I have always believed that it is our sacred liturgy that binds our faith community together. However, three weeks ago I saw our faith community torn apart by your homily. Many in the assembly left the church during your infomercial, only to return after it was over. Most were appalled at the half-truths promulgated in your speech; and some, even though they may have agreed with you, were upset because it caused many uncomfortable questions from their children who were attending Mass with their parents as a family - - the true domestic church.

I never in my life thought that I would live to see the day when a member of the Catholic episcopacy would actually encourage Catholics to vote for discrimination against a minority. As a junior in college in the spring of 1965, at the age of 18, I spent a month in Selma, Alabama. I have always taken the Churchs attitudes about peace and social justice seriously. I have been a proud and faithful Catholic for my entire life, now over 62 years, and I am appalled at your stance about civil marriage equality. I am sure that in the past, there were bishops who spoke out for slavery, against civil rights, and against womens suffrage, but I thought that we, through the guidance of the Holy Spirit, had moved beyond such misguided ideas as Gods will. I have attended Catholic schools throughout most of my life and have completed post graduate work in Catholic theology. And, as a result, I must vote my conscience on all matters: peace, social justice and rights for minorities and the oppressed.

As for your claim, as stated in your homily, that it is all about protecting the children, I find that a little hard to accept. If children are raised in a loving home with parents who love and care for them, regardless of the parents sexuality, they will have all they need to succeed in life and grow up to be loving, caring individuals. After all, the members of the Catholic episcopacy have very little high moral ground on which to stand about protecting children, given recent events.

I firmly believe that ones sexuality is not a choice, it is the way we, each one of us, were created; and God, She doesnt make mistakes. I, personally, did not wake up one morning in my teens, and choose to be heterosexual, any more than any gay or lesbian person made the choice about their own sexuality.

God is Love, Lover and Beloved. Since all love is God, what difference does the form of that love make? I do believe that all love should be celebrated and blessed.

I remain a proud Catholic for marriage equality and encourage my Catholic sisters and brothers to support equal rights for all of us, no matter what their created sexuality.

With peace and love I remain

Sincerely yours,




Pamela Murphy Ewers
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Maine-ah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #54
58. great letter!
:yourock:
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druidqueen Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #58
61. Thank you
Thank you so much...... My husband says I may be burned at the stake....I'm telling everyone to bring marshmallows & hot dogs....I plan to go out in a huge blaze of glory!!!! :fistbump:
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Neecy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #54
59. Outstanding letter
Thank you.

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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #54
91. good letter,
I like this sentence

"I firmly believe that ones sexuality is not a choice, it is the way we, each one of us, were created; and God, She doesnt make mistakes".

:)
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euphoria12leo Donating Member (511 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
55. Keep fighting
don't give up. The religious freaks want everyone to just give up.

:cry: They make me sick :puke:
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d_r Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
56. Not from Maine but I'm sorry
I also don't understand how majority votes can deny people of basic rights. I hate this, it boils my blood.
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beac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
57. I cannot believe that almost thirty thousand Mainers believe that their fellow citizens should have
access to medical marijuana but not the freedom to marry whom they choose.

I phonebanked for NO On 1 and I'm sick at heart today. But I vow to keep working until every citizen enjoys the same rights that I do by the accident of my genetics.
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Politicub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
62. Thank you for your post
It feels like this idea of human rights are something that shouldn't be voted on is a new dimension for the ongoing discussion about LGBT rights.

I know I have had enough with marriage votes, and I hope the people that can really stop this insanity with allowing human rights to be voted on can put a stop to it.

But we will never back down. Never.
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alp227 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
64. Some thoughts about this
1. Human rights are human rights, and should never, ever, ever be decided by direct democracy. It doesn't matter whether 53% or 88% of the people disapprove, but gay marriage is a right and will be here to stay. There is no credible, non-religious reason to deny same-sex couples the same rights as opposite ones. So far the only reasons for one to oppose same-sex marriage have been either religion or ignorance in general. regarding "ignorance": CNN's exit poll in 2008 showed that the more educated one was (movin on up from high school diploma to a postgrad degree) the less likely he would support Proposition 8 (California's predecessor to Maine's Question 1)

2. I appreciate all the hard work the Maine government put in the same-sex marriage bill and all what the No on 1 campaign did. It's just that the religious organizations can exploit "zombie voters", those who are naive about the issues, into voting Yes on 1. The religious right orgs know damn well that those people can buy the lies about public schools promoting homosexuality, preachers going to jail for considering homosexuality immoral, and general character attacks on gay couples. I also went to the IRS web site, and on its Tax Guide for Churches and Religious Organizations:

To qualify for tax-exempt status, such an organization must meet the following requirements...
- no substantial part of its activity may be attempting to influence legislation,
- the organization may not intervene in political campaigns...


and, again to debunk the myth of religious thoughtcrime:

The political campaign activity prohibition is not intended to restrict free expression on political matters by leaders of churches or religious organizations speaking for themselves, as individuals. Nor are leaders prohibited from speaking about important issues of public policy. However, for their organizations to remain tax exempt under IRC section 501(c)(3), religious leaders cannot make partisan comments in official organization publications or at official church functions.


Honestly, when will the feds ever start investigating the fuckdies who are instigating this anti-equality BS? And do situations like Prop 8 and Question 1 pose a need for a literacy standard for voting? I don't mean the bad old Jim Crow Laws that prevailed until the Voting Rights Act of 1965, but I mean requiring all voters to have at least a high school diploma/GED or to demonstrate rudimentary knowledge of the issues?
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Maine-ah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #64
69. sweet! I just posted that on my FB
great information :yourock:
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #64
71. +1,000,000
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
65. GLBT...not GBLT.. isn't BLT a bacon lettuce and tomato sandwich?
:crazy:
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Maine-ah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #65
76. well...I had just finished practicing for Maine's medical mar juana law
so...I might have been a bit hungry at the time

seriously...though, does it matter what order it's in? Edumacate me on it...cause if it does make a difference, I would like to change how I type the abbreviation
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #76
88. I'm not gay but I've never seen it rearranged to be GBLT before.
I've seen a "Q" added to it as in GLBTQ..

4 Factorial = 4*3*2*1=24 possibilities. (Excluding the Q..)

Here they are:

BGLT
BGTL
BLGT
BLTG
BTGL
BTLG

GBLT
GBTL
GLBT
GLTB
GTBL
GTLB

LBGT
LBTG
LGBT
LGTB
LTBG
LTGB

TBGL
TBLG
TLBG
TLGB
TGBL
TGLB

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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #65
129. I don't think the order technically matters in any way.
Stick an 'S' in there somewhere for Straight, and the order doesn't matter. We all have equal rights.

Well... we're supposed to anyway. Or we do, but some people haven't noticed. Or some are more equal than others... take your pick.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
67. Me too. I am so ashamed of half the people in my state!
:cry:
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
72. I would like to thank all my fellow Mainers for their efforts!
including my parents up there. :grouphug: Maine is where I grew up.

jonnyblitz in CT
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
73. I thought for sure that people had evolved into more compassionate
lot...guess not. NEXT TIME!!!! I know you won't give up!
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mainer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
74. I am pissed as well. I had high hopes that Maine would come through
And in urban areas and coastal areas, for the most part, it did. We here in the mid-coast had predominantly "No" votes. But the conservative rural, poor, and religious areas went against gay marriage.

So here's what I hope tourists from outside Maine will do. They will stay away from northern Maine. They will refuse to spend money in any county that went against gay marriage. Reward the liberal towns. And let those rural areas know that they can stuff any chances of tourist dollars. They voted for discrimination -- it's their turn to be discriminated against, with the almighty missing dollar.
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
77. We made a little progress for you over here in Washington.
It's still not marriage, but it's an improvement.
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Shagbark Hickory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
78. With maine being so close to canada, you'd think the state legislature would try to be a little more
competitive and accommodating.
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Maine-ah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #78
79. the state had passed it...
then outside groups got involved and made it get on the ballot to get it repealed.
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mainer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #78
82. The state legislature DID pass gay marriage. This was a referendum.
Our legislature is liberal, and passed the gay marriage act. The governor signed it into law.

Unfortunately, Maine has a referendum system that allows any cuckoos to put measures on the ballot -- all they have to do is collect enough signatures to do so. And with Catholic churches telling their parishioners to sign that petition, it was easy to get it onto the ballot. And it took only a simple majority to get it passed. It was California's downfall as well.
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Shagbark Hickory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #82
90. Right but they did allow this to become a referendum so thx for nothin.
Edited on Wed Nov-04-09 12:04 PM by Shagbark Hickory
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mainer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #90
97. They have no ability to stop a referendum. It's in our state law.
All it takes is enough people to sign the petition.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
80. THIS is what HATE looks like.... pay attention DUers
Edited on Wed Nov-04-09 11:32 AM by fascisthunter
especially the moderates who love to use the word against those who disagree with their President.

Well, church-USA... you are hated everyday a bit more for your hatred of others. One day you will be begging for pity, you hate-filled bigots. You are the last people to represent this country, nor do you represent a God. You represent evil...

This vote was UNCONSTITUTIONAL. NOBODY, has the right to vote for others rights... it is not something that can be compromised, especially by religions who are to be separated from State action. This whole thing is unconstitutional. I now believe it is time to take away their tax exempt status, and then investigate the shit out of them for fraud.
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #80
92. ............................
:thumbsup:
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caseymoz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-05-09 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #80
137. I agree with you completely, but It won't happen.

I don't like tax exempt status either, but there's less chance of that happening than of all fifty states voting for equal marriage rights. If you make this about tax exempt status, too, the odds of ever winning are vanishingly small.

This battle is going to go on for our lifetimes. I mean, in States where it passes, they are going to bring it up for repeal again and again until they get it repealed. We are going to see this in states every damn election. In Maine, No on 1 had five times the donors and two times the funding as the opposition, yet, it lost. How do you combat that?

GLBT's are a small minority and I don't think it makes up nearly 10 percent of the population, as GLBT's estimate. I think it's more like 3 percent at most. This means it needs a lot of help from the straight community. Unfortunately, most of the straight community either opposed or is open to manipulation by the militants.

How to win? There's no easy answer. I think that ultimately, the manipulated people are going to figure out that they are being duped. It's harder to face when it's somebody you trust that's doing it: like priests.

It will happen, of that, I'm certain.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
81. i am sorry too. thanks for the post. nt
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jtrockville Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
83. A shameful day in the USA for sure.
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philly_bob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
84. Can someone in Maine provide scans of anti-gay literature or links to ads.
Edited on Wed Nov-04-09 11:39 AM by philly_bob
We should see what we're up against.

Again, progressives everywhere are ashamed.
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Shallah Kali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #84
134. here is the website of the anti-marriage equality group link
You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy......

http://www.standformarriagemaine.com/index.php?home=1

Also their biggest sponsor National Organization for Marriage http://nationformarriage.org /

People for the American Way's Right Wing Watch has been keeping track of the power players and sources of $ behind the anti group here: http://www.rightwingwatch.org/category/states/maine

wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_Maine
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philly_bob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-05-09 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #134
145. Thanks for links, Shallah. RWers want no accommodation at all for gays. n/t
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Highway61 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
85. When I heard the arch diocese poured
six figures into this (I heard about 190K)It made me sick. I was brought up catholic and was taught that God loves ALL of us. How DARE they take money and pour it something they have no business being involved in. Maine has a large catholic conservative population. Did these same people forget the scandals a few years back when the same arch diocese paid out mucho $$$ to abuse victims? How soon they forget.

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radhika Donating Member (563 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
86. Religion is incompatible with Equality and Democracy
Gross societal injustice to minority groups is generally linked to and supported by religious memes. Slavery, racism/sexism, The Inquisition, marriage restrictions, colonialism, Native American reservations, Middle East terrorism and Western imperialism. Even when a religion has some sects that are committed to social justice in the small-d democratic, egalitarian sense, those adherents are usually too few/too powerless to shift the larger body.

Without the wealth and influence of Catholic and Mormon clergy, LGBT people in California and Maine would not have been stripped of civil rights. We need to stop the retrograde religios is to strip them of tax exemptions and funds.
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NotNarrow Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
93. I need a geography lesson, I guess
I always thought Maine was a northern state, but it must be in the deep, irrational, bigoted and backward south.
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2QT2BSTR8 Donating Member (320 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
94. The problem is...
The problem is I feel the fact that the GLBT community is tired of fighting and fighting with politicians say that they will not only join the fight, they will in some cases help to champion such rights. Not to say that there aren't those in the GLBT community who will fight the long haul fight, myself and my spouse included, but for the most part, I fear that our community does not have the sense of what I think is an urgency to get involved. Of course, here in Texas, it will be a cold day in hell before DOMA is overturned. I pray each election cycle that Texas will turn blue, but unfortunately the only true blue areas in order are Houston, El Paso, Dallas, and Austin. I am deeply saddened by what happened in Maine, and I fear that Obama will look at that as a litmus test for removing Don't ask - Don't tell. Who knows, maybe Obama will surprise us, I can only wish that he will.
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2QT2BSTR8 Donating Member (320 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #94
95. Thank you to Maine-ah for your post!
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theFrankFactor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
98. K&R
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SpookyCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
99. This sucks. WTF is wrong with people?
My brother and his partner have been together for 15 years, and yet straight marriages in California have not collapsed.

Fucking bigots.
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byronius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
100. Goddamned Neanderthal Throwback Dickheads. May they pass from us.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
101. I'm sorry too
I can't believe we have such ignorant redneck types right here in New England where we usually allow for all types. Ignorant morons in Maine pass a law legalizing bigotry - how shameful.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
102. We have to wake up to how the Mormon and RCC churches have been controlling
"human rights" with tax-exempt dollars over and over again --

The Mormon and RCC Churches used tax-exempt dollars to fight the Equal Rights Amendment

for women -- that's how that was lost.

And now we see their involvement in California's Prop 8 --

And now they've succeeded again in Maine???????????

The Catholic Church seems to have also decided to defeat health care reform --

I think it's time we REFORMED the churches and withdrew tax-exempt status from them!

Yes... church and its surrounding property, tax-exempt. Their soup kitchens -- tax-exempt.

All their real estate holdings and their stock portfolios NOT TAX EXEMPT.

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aint that a blip Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
104. It's good to know there are decent people in Maine! Thank you!
Is your state full of many religious people (like we associate with the Bible Belt in the South)? It kind of surprises me that this happened because I thought of Maine as pretty progressive.
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CrownPrinceBandar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
106. I'll keep fighting for gay rights...........
and I will not stop until we have EQUAL RIGHTS FOR ALL!
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winyanstaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
107. K & R....
I say..to hell with their tax exemptions and lets get rid of that perk NOW.
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la_chupa Donating Member (357 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
108. seriously what ARE they so afraid of
I had a gay roommate for three years. I promise it isn't contagious.
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kaehele Donating Member (77 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #108
115. joy n/t
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SalviaBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
109. k and r
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
110. K&R
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
112. Putting these on the ballot is simply an end-around the legal system.
Big Religion decided it didn't like some court decisions so they started challenging things by putting them on the ballot, knowing full well that the idiots will buy their bullshit if they spend enough money on ads. And typically they count on the fact that turnout is low in off-year elections and also in mid-terms, which helps them tremendously.
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TK421 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
113. Don't apologize on behalf of the state...I know there are plenty of decent people there
I hear what you're saying, but the ones I really feel sorry for are the people in Maine who want equality
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
114. I always think of Maine as being a gay tourist destination. Seems like
Maine doesn't want gay tourism dollars. Now, Massachusetts is a much friendlier state to spend your money.
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AllieB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #114
125. Provincetown vs. Ogunquit
It's really shameful and unconstitutional to vote on anyone's rights. But Maine also shot itself in the foot economically-and it's one of the poorest states in the nation.
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WritingIsMyReligion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
116. Prop 8 pissed me off, but it was impersonal. Pure political rage and annoyance. This has made me
a lifetime ally, cast in stone. The rage and sorrow that filled my veins last night and today really has changed something in me.

Passive championing no more. Enough, enough, enough. From now on I cannot and will not ever shy away from this issue: it needs to be directly championed and it needs people.

No more shadows; no more passive "I'm so sorry"s; no more "sympathy." Maine's question 1 has made me forever an active participant of the fight for marriage equality, and I look forward to the day that I get to feel the sweetest of all victories in the face of all this ignorance and outright hate.
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Maine-ah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-05-09 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #116
142. hell yeah!!
:yourock: :applause:
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Omaha Steve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
117. K&R!
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mrbarber Donating Member (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
118. Goddamn bigots.
Spit on them and rot their bones, the lot.
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undergroundnomore Donating Member (248 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
119. my nephew
Edited on Wed Nov-04-09 07:53 PM by undergroundnomore
who is gay is so upset about this. None of us understand why people who claim to believe that God is love turns that love into hatred against a group of people. I am so sad for my nephew, so sad for GLBTs nationwide. I hope that Obama will come out and say something about this travesty.

I know it's a state issue but once upon a time Slavery was too. This is absolutely a human rights issue and the Supreme Court needs to make a ruling on this.
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mrbarber Donating Member (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #119
121. "I hope that Obama will come out and say something"
Yeah, and I hope that tomorrow morning i"ll wake up with a million dollars and Spider powers.
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undergroundnomore Donating Member (248 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #121
122. I know. I know
he has said be patient but what if when he was to marry Michelle he'd been told the same thing. What if he had to wait for years, decades, heck centuries? I have a gay couple who lives next door and they've been together for about 20 years. Do they love less?

This is a human rights issue and our President, the one we put into office should say something, should do something.
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Texasgal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
120. Whatever state I live in
and whenever I can I will always SUPPORT marriage for all!

This will go with me to the polls... for the rest of my voting years.

I stand with you my brothers and sisters.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
123. Now you know how we felt last year in Cali
for the record the Mormons want to play politics, FINE... remove their tax exempt.
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chadmak09 Donating Member (91 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
124. Why are so many quick to label?
I dont think calling fellow americans bigots is very helpful.
Just because someone thinks differently is not a legitimate reason to act negatively toward them.

We need to remember that this was a good process.
People came to the voting booths and voted thier opinion without violence and peacefully. which is a great thing.
Those that opposed gay marriage voiced thier opinion in a peaceful manner without using violence and intimidation.
Democracy took place and the people spoke. This is the whole point.

This was a good process.
At least in america we have a choice to vote for these type of issues.

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Texasgal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #124
127. Oh bullshit!
There is NO REASON why any GLBT should NOT be able to marry legally. PERIOD.

If you are against that... then face the facts. YOU ARE A BIGOT!
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chadmak09 Donating Member (91 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #127
128. dictionary can help
by definition
A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices.

So by definition, someone who considers everyone who doesn't think like they do a bigot, is actually themselves intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions.

Sorry, just reading the definition here.

People should be more open-minded.

Just because someone shares a different system of beliefs than you, does not give you the right to call them names or label them.
What if everyone acted this way?

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Texasgal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #128
131. Belief?
it's not even about beliefs! It's about a basic HUMAN RIGHT.

It's OUTRIGHT Bigotry in the nastiest form!!

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #131
133. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Spryboy Donating Member (77 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-05-09 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #133
139. God you're an idiot.
"So basically what your doing is labeling the majority of the united states population as Bigots"

Yes. Exactly. AND IT'S TRUE.

You're probably ignorant of this fact too, but when interracial marriage was legalized in this country, over 90% of the population was against it.

Thank GOD that wasn't put up to a vote. Ninety percent of the country at the time was full of ignorant bigotry. Today, interracial marriage is no big deal in most of the country. Of course, there are still ignorant bigots who oppose it (as witnessed recently in Louisiana).

"they see gay marriage as going against what god wants"

Who cares? How is that relevant? Ever hear of the separation of church and state? Or religious freedom? MY religion doesn't demonize or deny same-sex love and marriage. Why does YOUR religion get to have its ignorant hateful stupid anti-gay prejudicial beliefs enshrined in secular law, so that suddenly I have to live by your religious tenants?

Hell, divorce is against the teachings of Jesus and the Bible. It's VERY explicit about it, yet divorce is legal. The bible is much less explicit about gay marriage (and Jesus had nothing to say on the topic at all).

I think YOU are the one that needs to open their mind, and be more tolerant and accepting.

I'm just telling the truth: ignorant bigots are IGNORANT BIGOTS and I'm tired of sugar coating it.

And I have another belief: Tolerance of intolerance is stupidity; Intolerance of intolerance is intelligence.

Gay marriage doesn't hurt anyone. Denying gay marriage has seriously negative consequences to a LOT of people. Denying gay people the basic civil right of declaring their partners as "family" under the law is evil and immoral and hateful. Defending the stripping of fellow Americans of basic civil rights that you yourself enjoy is evil, immoral, hateful, ignorant, and bigoted.

If you want to know what an ignorant bigot looks like, look in a mirror. You disgust me.
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-05-09 02:17 AM
Response to Reply #133
144. Since you're so understanding and tolerant of others' beliefs...
...my belief -- which I hold deeply, and religiously -- is that God should condemn everyone who has ever voted to strip me of my fundamental right to marry, from California to Maine, to die in a fire, with his or her colon filled with shards of broken glass.

Thanks for understanding my deeply held religious beliefs! :hi:
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #124
136. If all civil rights were still on the ballot
we'd still have slaves.

This should NOT be up to a vote...
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Spryboy Donating Member (77 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-05-09 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #124
138. Sorry, but you're full of shit
Voting to strip fellow citizens of the equal rights you enjoy is not just "thinking differently". It's an ACTION. And it's an ignorant, hateful, and bigoted action. By definition. I can't believe you actually posted this crap on here.

It was NOT a good process. Civil rights are not up to vote. They're inherent. Imagine if they put all the civil rights of blacks or hispanics or catholics or scientologists or muslims up to popular vote. The constitution and the bill of rights exist to protect minorities against the tyranny of the majority.

You are WRONG WRONG WRONG. In every way it's possible to be wrong. On every level.

The whole point, which you miss, is that you should not have the power to strip anyone else of rights you enjoy, for any reason. That you think this is valid makes you an ignorant bigot. Fuck you.
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-05-09 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #124
141. Say that when your rights are up for a vote.
Until that day comes, you cannot really know what it is like to NOT have equal rights. Bigotry exists. The LEAST you can do is admit it.

Considering the fact that you seem to have a real problem with the idea of equal rights,
here is some interesting reading for you:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...





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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-05-09 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #124
143. Tell you what
You put your rights on the next ballot. Let "the people" decide who you can marry (if you can marry at all), if you can adopt, and what other rights you can have. While we're at it we'll decide if your religion should be legal or not. It's not based on bigotry, mind you, just a "difference of opinion".


I've fucking had it up to here with assholes who think they should be able to vote on my civil rights, when they wouldn't put a single one of their rights to "the will of the people". So put your money where your mouth is. Get out there and put your rights on the chopping block.

Or is it only gay people you think should have to beg for the rights you take for granted, from people who shouldn't have the right to withhold them in the first fucking place?



And I'll fucking call any bigot a bigot if I want to. If it talks like a bigot, walks like a bigot and denies me my civil rights like a bigot it is a fucking BIGOT.
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piratefish08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-05-09 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #124
147. Human rights are not to be VOTED ON. Bigot is accurate.
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-05-09 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #124
148. >>This was a good process. At least in america we have a choice to vote for these type of issues.
You've got to be kidding. You don't *vote* on civil rights. The real travesty is not the outcome, it is the fact that this is being voted on at all.
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
126. Yeah I'm sick of this shit too.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
130. K&R
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Liberal_Stalwart71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
132. As a straight, black woman, I am ashamed! Ashamed of what's happening in this country.
In D.C., the city council is trying to get gay marriage passed, but it's the black churches and clergy actively trying to stop it here...in this supposedly *progressive* city. So sad.

I stand with you. I stand with you Maine governor, who has been incredibly brave throughout this entire process. I cry for you. But I am hopeful. I believe with all my heart than in our lifetime, we will witness a sea-change on this issue.
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caseymoz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
135. I'll second that. nt
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philly_bob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-05-09 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
146. From a RW website: no marriage, no domestic partnership, no nothing!
I've sometimes thought a temporary accommodation could be worked out over these issues by granting full legal rights for 'domestic partnerships' or 'civil unions' and holding off on the use of the word 'marriage' until a more enlightened future. (I know that's not a popular view; I don't want to argue it.)

But these guys won't even allow that! Here's a line from post-election press release from Catholic Liberty Counsel:

Heres the bad news. The margin of victory could have been greater. Many behind the Yes on 1 campaign, rather than simply telling the truth, chose the Neville Chamberlain approach. They merely circled the wagons around the word marriage, even suggesting that domestic partnerships (gay marriages by another name) are acceptable. This makes no sense. If thats a viable compromise, then why not simply allow 'gay' duos the word marriage? Its an incongruity that demands an explanation.


It scares me that the right-wing moves further and further right.
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