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Sheila Samples Donating Member (264 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-01-09 07:49 PM
Original message
Rack 'em and Screw 'em, Boys!
Is there anything scarier than the New York Times' Halloween treat entitled, "Documents Detail Conditions Found at Secret C.I.A. Jails"?

Pardon my Palinese, but -- You betcha! You damnbetcha!

For starters, the "conditions" the Times mentions only briefly are, in reality, depraved, corrupt, immoral, inhumane torture. According to the Times...

"F.B.I. agents who arrived at a secret C.I.A. jail overseas in September 2002 found prisoners manacled to the ceiling and subjected to blaring music around the clock, and a C.I.A. official wrote a list of questions for interrogators including How close is each technique to the rack and screw'. . ."


What is more frightening -- that the C.I.A. got its jollies by torturing, even murdering human beings in its secret sodomy frat-houses -- or that the F.B.I. took one look, fled the scene and remained silent for years?

Perhaps it's the two-page memo President George Bush had circulated seven months earlier wherein he determined -- under his authority as Commander in Chief and Chief Executive of the United States --

"...none of the provisions of Geneva apply to our conflict with al Qaeda in Afghanistan or elsewhere throughout the world because, among other reasons, al Qaeda is not a High Contracting Party to Geneva." (emphasis added)

<...>

"...I determine that the Taliban detainees are unlawful combatants and, therefore, do not qualify as prisoners of war under Article 4 of Geneva. I note that, because Geneva does not apply to our conflict with al Qaeda, al Qaeda detainees also do not qualify as prisoners of war."


Bush then added piously that our values as a nation that we shared with many nations (?) required us to treat humanely even those not qualified as humans nor entitled to such treatment. So -- wink, wink -- rack 'em and screw 'em, boys!

According to the Times, the documents were released as a result of several Freedom of Information Act lawsuits filed by the American Civil Liberties Union and Judicial Watch. Makes you wonder if this nation's mainstream media, both print and electronic, has no access -- nor interest -- in freedom of information, doesn't it?

The Times did provide links (see below) to the released documents -- 953 pages it knew most of us would never read. To offset that, the Times assigned two of its top investigative reporters -- Scott Shane and Charlie Savage -- to get the critical information out.

These guys hopped right on it and, after yawning through the assignment, their bland 306-word "news" article was published on page A28.

I don't know about you, but even for Halloween -- that's scary!

Links to released documents via New York Times
A.C.L.U. vs. C.I.A.(SDNY)(13 pages)
A.C.L.U. vs. D.O.D.(DDC2)(441 pages)
Judicial Watch vs. C.I.A.(DDC)(34 pages)
A.C.L.U. vs. D.O.D.(SDNY)(98 pages)
A.C.L.U. vs. D.O.D.(DDC2)(61 pages)
A.C.L.U. vs. D.O.D.(141 pages)
Feinman vs. C.I.A.(DDC)(163 pages)
Judicial Watch vs. D.O.J.(DDC)(2 pages)
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thunder rising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-01-09 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. K&R
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Sinistrous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-01-09 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. All I can add is
K&R.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-01-09 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
3. I'm glad these things are coming out.
And we should add that Congress shares a great deal of the blame.

When Senator Durbin read an FBI report of hideous torture on the floor of the US Senate, he was pilloried for it -- by Republicans, but Democrats didn't help much in his defense. Obama's only defense of his fellow Senator from IL was something to the effect that "We all make mistakes". Well, Durbin bringing out that information was not a mistake!

Durbin's statement on the Senate floor, 2006:

Imagine if the president had followed Colin Powells advice and respected our treaty obligations. How would things have been different? We still would have the ability to hold detainees and interrogate them aggressively We would be able to do everything we need to do to keep our country safe. The difference is, we would not have damaged our reputation in the international community in the process.

When you read some of the graphic descriptions of what has occurred here I almost hesitate to put them in the record, and yet they have to be added to this debate. Let me read to you what on FBI agent saw. And I quote from his report:

On a couple of occasions, I entered interview rooms to find a detainee chained hand and foot in a fetal position to the floor, with no chair, food, or water. Most times they urinated or defecated on themselves, and had been left there for eighteen to twenty-four hours or more. On one occasion, the air conditioning had been turned down so far and the temperature was so cold in the room, that the barefooted detainee was shaking with cold On another occasion, the air conditioner had been turned off, making the temperature in the unventilated room well over 100 degrees. The detainee was almost unconscious on the floor, with a pile of hair next to him. He had apparently been literally pulling his hair out throughout the night. On another occasion. with the detainee chained hand and foot in the fetal position on the tile floor.

If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their control, you would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in the gulags, or some mad regime Pol Pot or others that had no concern for human beings.

It is not too late. I hope we will learn from history. I hope we will change course. The president could declare the United States will apply the Geneva Conventions to the war on terrorism. He could declare, as he should, that the United States will not, under any circumstances, subject any detainee to torture, or cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment. The administration could give all detainees a meaningful opportunity to challenge their detention before a neutral decision maker.

Such a change of course would dramatically improve our image and it would make us safer. I hope this administration will choose that course. If they do not, Congress must step in.

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Sheila Samples Donating Member (264 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-01-09 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Please note...
...that the two-page memo I cite from Bush was sent to --

The Vice President
The Secretary of State
The Secretary of Defense
The Attorney General
Chief of Staff to the President
Director of Central Intelligence
Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs
Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

Colin Powell was in the loop from the outset, and it was his UN presentation that took us to war. And Durbin is/was fully aware of that. When Powell gives advice or makes a public statement, you can bet your ass it is to cover his ass...
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-02-09 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. I know someone who is a friend of Dubin's wife..
Edited on Mon Nov-02-09 07:30 AM by whathehell
She said that Durbin's remarks rankled Mayor Daley to no end because his son was in the military at the time.
Apparently Daley raked him over the coals..and Durbin then apologized, which I thought was lame..He should have stuck to his guns..Fuck Daley.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-01-09 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
4. the mainstream aka corporate media only have interest and access AFTER the fact.
Or, in local parlance, after the horse is out of the barn.

Of course, they are only doing what our President asked us to do: look forward, not back.

Rec.
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Gold Metal Flake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-01-09 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
5. K&R
Troll harder, unreccers.
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Sheila Samples Donating Member (264 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-01-09 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Um...
...what is an "unreccer"?
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Gold Metal Flake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-02-09 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. A person who unrecs.
Edited on Mon Nov-02-09 01:20 PM by Gold Metal Flake
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-01-09 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
7. k&r
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-01-09 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
9. Doesn't matter anymore.
We are supposed to look the other way, or "look forward" or something.
Same difference.
Its now our National Policy.
The War Criminals WILL be protected.

If the photos aren't released, it NEVER happened.
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coalition_unwilling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-02-09 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
11. Torture is as American as cherry pie (with apologies to H. Rap Brown and
a nod to your thread title)
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-02-09 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
12. K&R
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-02-09 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
13. Just think. If these people weren't recruited by the CIA...
they'd be loose on the streets.

:scared:
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-02-09 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
15. Torture and Genocide. Do Americans really want the blood of these crimes on their hands? nt
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-02-09 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
16. +1
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-02-09 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
17. K&R. (nt)
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