With Public Option; can employers now dump employee health care ?

[FarPoint]

This issue has been a talking point I can not yet defend when talking to republican co-workers. So, does anyone know if employers can just end health care benefits to save the company money as Public Option will be a choice for employees.

[melm00se]

1. if the ROI

(the cost of dropping coverage and paying any "fine" vs the cost of carrying) is there, then employers very well might drop coverage.

as to the legalities? 2000 page bill will take some time to review

[csziggy]

2. They can end coverage now - and employees have no recourse

There is nothing stopping employers from just stopping their insurance coverage at any time as things are now. At least if we get one of the proposals now in front of Congress there would be alternatives. That is one of the few things I like about the current proposals, by the way.

Most companies offer insurance as an incentive to attract employees, so I doubt that most would drop their coverage - unless rates keep going up as much as they have been. And if they do drop coverage, employees should see a net increase in their wages since employers should pay them the portion that was paid to the insurance companies.

[FarPoint]

3. Then again, I live in a de-funked General Motors

community..........OMG, no one ever imagined the extent of disregard for dedicated employees and its town. So, I am guarded with the trust issue.... I never hear this issue talked about on MSNBC, so I threw it out here.

[CTyankee]

9. If this is the way this thing goes, why as progressives should we complain?

If the PO becomes the provider of choice by more and more individuals, particularly healthy ones in the workforce, why should we not welcome it? European employers don't have to provide health insurance to their employees because they have a PO, called national health care, and private companies to provide other benefits and it works fine. If anything, employers will eventually benefit by not having that cost cutting into their profit margin. Of course, we have to work on the fine issue but eventually we might see such a strong PO that so many people like that we end up with more of a European model entirely. Yes, I'd like to see "socialized medicine"!

[csziggy]

11. That is the only reason I don't give up - this may be a wedge to work into

Something better.

I'd like to see Medicare for All - simple, the system is there, it spreads the pool of insured so that Medicare will no longer only treat one of the most expensive groups of people, and it will cut administrative costs since there will be only one form of coverage for everyone. The insurance companies make plenty of money selling supplemental policies to Medicare patients now, they can just do that for everyone who wants a "cadillac" policy.

But that is far too logical for the Republicans and the Democratic Caucus will not fight for it. <sigh>

I do think we will end up with something like that model eventually, but how much will it cost the country meanwhile?

[CTyankee]

15. In my long life I have seen a procession of politicians decry "socialized medicine" and say that the

U.S. has the "best medical care in the world." Those were once unassailable (publicly) assumptions. But that has changed. More and more people are seeing the real advantages to socialized medicine and don't think it's that bad. And WAY too many have been treated so roughly in our system of hc insurance that they don't believe that we anywhere NEAR the best health care in the world.

As to your question, I would ask you, how much will it cost the country if we do NOT take at least this step?

[csziggy]

17. I know - and look at what the US has lost in international competitiveness

I agree, we have to do something. What is currently proposed is a step. Not the step I want but if we can get something that is a step in the right direction, that is progress. But I worry that this step is not in the right direction and will be used as a justification for not going on to a real health care system instead of the present health insurance industry that makes money scaring people about their health care.

[CTyankee]

18. I share your worry on this. I am taking this on a bit of faith and I am wary and ready to do battle

again if necessary. Eternal vigilance...

[SoCalDem]

14. Exactly.. at some point it will all just get to be too much

and as employees can no longer afford their end of the deal, they will have to drop it. A group plan only "works" because of the numbers.. If they drop below a certain amount, the "discount" disappears, and the whole plan becomes unaffordable, so the boss just drops coverage altogether.

Employer plans only started because of wage/price freezes, and if raises were impossible to give, people would leave that job for one that was "frozen" at a higher rate of pay, so these "perks" were added , to keep good workers or to attract better ones.

There is NO SHORTAGE of "good workers" anymore.

[pnwmom]

4. They'll have to pay a fine if they do -- unlike now.

The reason they offer insurance now is because its a way to get and keep a good work force -- not because the government requires them to.

[Ganja Ninja]

5. Any time between now and when it kicks in they can dump you.

But once it kicks in if they have a payroll of over a certain amount they will be required to provide coverage or pay a fine. At least that's how I understand it.

[FarPoint]

6. Thanks....

To be honest, I don't think it's a firewall and am :scared: that I could loose my great healthcare coverage. I know my employer is a national corporation, privately owned and republican.

[Toots]

7. If they want to pay 2.5% of their income as penalty for not providing Insurance.

Pretty sure that would be considerably less than the cost of providing Insurance..As long as business is obligated to provide for Health Insurance for their employees it will be very difficult to compete in the Global Economy..We are the ONLY country that puts that extreme burden on our business.

[FarPoint]

8. Ya know, we, or shall I say me, I become complacent

without realizing it..........Your point is jaw dropping, that we are the only country to burden our business with such an essential task. In light of the tension in our country regarding the Health Care Reform.......I do believe it is essential we evolve...I have been awakened! This will benefit America.

[cm0431]

13. Not exactly true...

Employer Mandate Excise Tax (Page 275): If an employer does not pay 72.5 percent of a single employee’s health premium (65 percent of a family employee), the employer must pay an excise tax equal to 8 percent of average wages. Small employers (measured by payroll size) have smaller payroll tax rates of 0 percent (<$500,000), 2 percent ($500,000-$585,000), 4 percent ($585,000-$670,000), and 6 percent ($670,000-$750,000).

That 8% of wages penalty is substantially less, ergo, the employer will pay the fine and drop employees.

[zbdent]

10. I remember plenty of discussions where RW types were arguing that the

companies are paying way more than you "realize" in "health care benefits", and that, if they didn't have to pay that to the provider, they "could give that to the employee in salary/wage!" (right ...)

and don't forget the mythical $72/hour GM worker that was "saying" they worked for less than half that wage ... weren't they making those calculations by adding in what the "health care" coverage would cost?

[Nye Bevan]

12. Health care insurance should not be linked to employment

so this is not really a bad thing.

The current situation is as though if a fire started in your house the fire department would not just come and put out the fire. Instead, you have to buy fire coverage through your employer, which will ensure that the firemen will come and extinguish any fires in your home. But if you lose your job you also lose the services of the fire department and it will be impossible, or difficult and expensive, to arrange for alternative fire coverage. Especially if you have had any previous fire-related incidents. And if you lose your job and God forbid a fire *does* start at your house, you will probably become bankrupt and/or homeless. Insane? Yes. But this is the current health care system.

[FarPoint]

16. Whoooooooo

it's going to be a rough ride until we get this worked out. Excellent point.