Are the storm clouds building?

[Brigid]

Threads about rich bankers making almost deliberately provocative remarks (complete with replies about tumbrils, pitchforks, torches, and guillotines), threads about "Bushvilles" in Michigan (the unemployment capital of the nation), movies and documentaries about John Dilllinger, the battle over health care -- could the American version of the French Revolution really be such a far-fetched idea?

[Warpy]

1. FDR only got his reforms through because there was

a credible threat of a socialist revolution among the dispossessed and unemployed. That's one of the reasons McCarthy was allowed to do damage in the 50s when the crisis was over, to make sure all those socialists would never rise again.

You can't kill an idea, though, whether it's a good one or a bad one.

Things are going to have to get a lot more desperate before there's a credible threat of an uprising and Congress is terrified into real reform.

Considering the bankers are back to business as usual, that might just happen.

[TheCoxwain]

2. excellent insight ... are you a historian ?

[Warpy]

3. No, I just read a lot

and much of it has been history.

[Laelth]

4. Brilliant graphic in the sig. line, btw.

That very accurately describes the American political landscape and shows why American policy continues to lean right.

:dem:

-Laelth

[Democracyinkind]

5. Nice. And FDR knew exactly how far his class allowed him to go.

And let's not forget, there was at least one coup plotted against him.

I think we are still far away from the kind of social momentum that was around in the 30's.

Great post.

[Brigid]

6. I'm not so sure about that.

The parallels are almost eerie. And we have tools like the internet and twitter that did not exist then and which the rich cannot control.

[Democracyinkind]

8. No organized vets. That's the main difference. No massive out-of-paradigm movement.

I could go on but I am working. I'd like to write more and hear more from other on this topic.

In the 30's, there were credible alternatives to our current system.

The only revolutionary potential I see comes from the RW fringe and they are simply to irrelevant to be taken serious. Not like the Socialists/Communists/Fascists back in the 30's....

[havocmom]

11. Another eerie parallel: the GOP has worked to degrade the US economy to near ruin

Had the history channel on while doing chores the other day. It was about Albert Speer and explained a bit about Germany while he was growing up, then the rise of the Nazi party. Hmmm, a nation in ruin after disastrous ventures into war, economic infrastructure in ruins, people without employment, people with limited access to information, increased willful ignorance and intolerance of academia/intellectuals, rise of nationalism, jingoism replacing rational discussion of public policy, accusations that any who did not get in step were traitors, programs to intimidate those who were still brave enough to dissent.....

'OMG',I thought; the BFEE has set about creating similar conditions here.

And now we are looking at some real upheaval in global currency practices. Yep, all we need is to have to use a wheelbarrow to carry the money for a loaf of bread and we are there.

Old album by comedian Bill Dana did a bit about interview with a spy. Interviewer asks the agent (Dana) "What was the best kept secret of WWII?" Dana replied: "That it is still going on". It was a funny joke in the 60s when the album came out and we were getting our fist big taste of Japanese electronics and seeing a car or two on the road. Now, it gives me a chill and seems all too serious as one looks at old BFEE/Nazi dealings and the shit clan Bush has done to America. Perhaps that war never did end.

[rudy23]

12. On top of that, I've suspected one reason for the Obama/Hitler comparisons is to make the next round

of comparisons between (GOP Pres of choice--Jeb Bush?) and Hitler seem like absurd tit for tat, when that president acts like Hitler.

[havocmom]

16. Yep. The Nazis excelled at propaganda & Newt taught Goebbels' methods to young GOP pols

Just details to keep reminding John Q. Public ;)

[OffWithTheirHeads]

7. I'm not so sure. I don't know anyone who is not REALLY angry

right now. On the other hand, I don't know any really rich folks either. If I did, I might consider having them for dinner. Literally. I hear that when fattened up with a diet of pate', Champaign and Caviar they are quite tender and juicy.

[Democracyinkind]

9. I come from a rich family. No one's afraid of a mob here....

Anyway.. are the people you are talking about angry enough to camp out in Washington DC? Angry enough to confront authorities? Angry enough to overthrow someone?

And if they are angry enough... do they have the means to overthrow anyone, structurally speaking?

Anger is one thing. Revolution is something else.

[Greyhound]

13. I concur, prevailing opinion in the reich-wing here is that Americans are simply too well

conditioned to be much bother.

Oh, and the corporations are still leaving...

[edwardian]

25. "prevailing opinion in the reich-wing here is that Americans are simply too ...

lazy and sheep-like.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

15. I don't think armed insurrection is on the table

if that's what you mean. I don't know what's going to happen but if the downward slide continues, something is going to break.

You wouldn't happen to be free for dinner would you?:shrug: :rofl:

[Democracyinkind]

18. LOL.....Eat me if you can....

You'd have to take a trip across the great pond though :-)

[Joe Fields]

23. if it weren't for the much needed unemployment extensions......

[Bgno64]

10. We may have Twitter but we also have Dancing With the Stars

Americans are far too passive to ever make that much trouble in the streets these days. Dude, I can't march, I have to update my Facebook page.

But we ARE being prepped to accept declining standards of living and fewer jobs - you saw the stories this week about higher joblessness being the "new normal," the Goldman advisor saying that the only way to ensure broad prosperity is to give more money to the rich. This economic crisis has allowed the people with the money to accrue even more money and power; Fox News is diverting the proles' attention, telling them it's all the fault of government and ACORN and SEIU; and the mainsteam media is repeating the mantra: Relax citizen, lower expectations are merely the way of the world now.

[RaleighNCDUer]

14. There is something to that - after all, before the 1960s it was absurd

to think that 5.25% unemployment was 'normal'. In most of the industrial world, and for most of our history, normal unemployment was under 2.5%, for 'full employment' stats. For most of the past 35 years, full employment was deemed to be anything under 5 1/4%. Will the new norm be 7%?

[mmonk]

17. Good question. Whatever the American people are willing to tolerate

through their ignorance, I guess.

[Sinti]

19. I certainly hope not.

Revolutions are bloody, ugly things that kill small children.

We need a Revolution of the Mind We can get there, everyone knows there's something wrong, they're just divided about what. The system is broken - so the people living in it also feel kind of broken. We just need to begin looking at what's really wrong here, and finding solutions rather than who to blame.

:think:

[willing dwarf]

21. Have you read George Lakey's Handbook for a Living Revolution?

It points the way to how to have a revolution of the mind, and revolution in the structures of society while never working for anything but peace.

I thought it was requisite reading for anyone on the left, but it's about 40 years old now, and perhaps it's been forgotten?

[Sinti]

24. No I have not, but I'll have a look into it :) thanks very much n/t

[willing dwarf]

20. Do you suppose Pres. Obama just threw us a bit of bread to ward off the pitchforks?

when he announced rules on bonuses etc for banks still holding TARP money?

I really thought he'd be doing more for regular Americans, but while it's not bread and circuses, it's still more bread than any major change.

[tranche]

22. The only thing brewing are double milkshakes and triple cheese burgers.

This country is too fat to do anything. When people are hungry. That's when shit gets done.

[jimlup]

26. I think you are correct... storm clouds are brewing on BOTH sides of the political spectrum.

I like Michael Moore's 15 things Americans can do now as an action plan to help prepare for what may be the strongest storm in the history of the nation.

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mikes-letter/michael-moores-action-plan-15-things-every-american-can-do-right-now

I'm working hard on the credit card thing. I'd like to be out of debt by this time next year. I think it is one of the most politically significant moves we can make right now. If things get worse, we may have to take more direct action against the blood sucking vampire bankers.