News from FactCheck re: The Swine flu vaccine:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

Inoculation Misinformation
Claims that the "swine flu" vaccine is dangerous range from seriously overblown to flat-out false.

October 19, 2009
Summary

Wild rumors are flying about the newly developed vaccine for pandemic influenza H1N1, also known as "swine flu." We’ve seen e-mails stating that the vaccine is tainted with antifreeze or Agent Orange, causes Gulf War syndrome, or has killed U.S. Navy sailors. One says the vaccine is an "evil depopulation scheme." The claims are nearly pure bunk, with only trace amounts of fact.

If you are the sort who trusts anonymous e-mails more than you do doctors and experts from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, you may wish to stop reading now. For others, here are the facts as stated by the best authorities we can find:

* The vaccine does have some risks – the same risks as the seasonal flu vaccine. Except for the virus, it is functionally identical to the vaccine that’s given every year.
* The multidose formulation of the vaccine contains thimerosal, which prevents contamination. Some have accused thimerosal of causing developmental disorders in children, but scientific evidence doesn’t support this.
* The vaccine does not contain squalene, which has been accused – also without good evidence – of causing Gulf War syndrome.
* There’s no reason to believe that a vaccination would cause Guillain-Barre syndrome. GBS was associated with several hundred flu vaccinations in 1976, but there’s been no evidence of an association since then, despite close monitoring.
* While it’s true that a Navy vessel was prevented from deploying because of a flu outbreak, that had nothing to do with the vaccine, which hadn’t been developed at the time. And there were no deaths aboard the ship, as some e-mails claim.
* Vaccination is not mandatory for the public nationally or in any state, although New York requires that health care providers get vaccinated. Massachusetts legislation granting standby powers in case of health emergencies does not require vaccination or establish quarantine "camps."

The complete article at link:
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/10/inoculation-misinforma... /

[Zoeisright]

1. Gee, actual facts!

Whodathunkit?

[CaliforniaPeggy]

3. Thank you!

This group is well known for getting the facts.

[Ian David]

2. I'm going to unrec because there is a waiting list.

If you need to be convinced to be vaccinated, you're not genetically fit to survive flu season.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

4. And this is my fault...how?

[Ian David]

5. Not punishing you. Just don't think we should talk idiots into vaccinating this year.

The bottleneck this year is SUPPLY, not compliance.

[TZ]

31. Yes we need to Ian David.

Anti-Vaxx loons endanger people who medically CAN'T get vaccines, like my sister with Lupus.

[Ian David]

36. True. But the bottleneck now is not compliance. It's supply.

There are only x number of vaccine doses available.

Convincing anti-vax nutjobs to get vaccinated will not increase the number of vaccinated people in the population this year.

It will only increase the number of STUPID vaccinated people in the population this year.

[Ian David]

37. Self-delete (duplicate) n/t

[edc]

99. Amen brother

We already have kids in my town coming down with Swine Flu, more each day. The cavalry is way late to the rescue. We should have been vaccinating people in late August or early September for this. This debacle goes far beyond malfeasance. While not a supporter of the Chinese Communist regime, it does have certain appealing qualities. In China, for instance, people responsible for this public health failure would be shot in the back of the head and their survivors billed for the bullets. Alas! the essential drawbacks of even pretend representative democracy.

[MrsMatt]

195. The H1N1 flu hit earlier than

the seasonal flu.

It's an entirely new strain, and considering the length of time it takes to create a vaccine, they did a stellar job in having it available now.

http://www.influenza.com/Index.cfm?FA=Science_History_6

[edc]

227. OK

The first cases were reported in March and five of the largest pharmaceutical companies are manufacturing vaccines, so I stand corrected. However, a doctor told me yesterday that he figures by the time the vaccines arrive so many people will already be infected that it probably won't much matter.

[Trekologer]

236. It takes approximately 6 months to grow and cultivate flu vaccines

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33420826/ns/health-cold_and...

[edc]

247. H1N1 vaccine is here now.

The inoculation du jour is injection for seasonal flu and live virus mist for H1N1. I did just that today with my kids. Many people will pass on the mist because they fear negative reactions to it. I hope they're wrong. I don't know what to believe, but I"ve just drawn one card to a straight on the health of my children. The odds are hugely in my favor. I should win. If not I'll never forgive myself. There is much less stress playing far worse odds for nothing more valuable than money in high stakes poker any day.

[Patchuli]

164. That's ice cold

You got a superiority thing going on?

[girl gone mad]

17. Huh?

"If you need to be convinced to be vaccinated, you're not genetically fit to survive flu season."

That's not very reasonable of you. There are plenty of valid reasons to avoid flu vaccination, including the growing body of evidence that flu vaccines offer very limited protection against infection and morbidity.

http://chemistry.about.com/cs/howthingswork/a/aa011604a...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/health/02flu.html

http://www.pizaazz.com/2009/02/06/does-flu-vaccine-work...

[uppityperson]

23. dry dry dry humor, sarcasm. eom

if a joke has to be explained, it loses the humor part.

[ipaint]

27. Every single one of those articles recommends the flu shots be given to certain high risk

population groups, that they not be abandoned, and a 30% prevention rate is better than 0%.

Combine that with the op's info and the current uneducated vaccine hysteria outbreak is pure bunk.

[Ian David]

28. If you say so. I won't try to change your mind. You go and do whatever you think best. n/t

[HughMoran]

91. Another moronic post

You have a habit of this!

[CreekDog]

6. Thank you, even though this shouldn't be necessary

[CaliforniaPeggy]

10. My dear CreekDog!

You'd think it shouldn't and I agree...

But there's so much controversy!

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. I'll recommend, FACTS

quite refreshing by the way

[CaliforniaPeggy]

13. I appreciate the rec!

Aren't facts refreshing?

I thought so too...

[elocs]

25. Choice is refreshing also. I simply choose not to be vaccinated.

It has nothing to do with fear of the vaccine. I have never had a flu shot and probably the last time I had the flu was 30 years ago.

[TZ]

34. You do realize you've probably made many people sick with the flu right?

Just because you don't feel sick doesn't mean you aren't contagious. Alot of people can't get the vaccine for medical reasons and are very vulnerable. People die because of the SELFISH choice not to be vaccinated.

[elocs]

39. That is pure supposition on your part and you know that full well,

but why pass up an opportunity to be self righteous?

[alarimer]

254. It is not supposition; it is true

Anti-vaxxers ARE FUCKING IDIOTS. All of the them. Selfish idiots who put people at risk. People like this young boy who has leukemia who cannot be vaccinated. Yet he is at risk because of idiots like you who refuse to vaccinate their kids.

http://www.doublex.com/section/kids-parenting/your-unva...

In my opinion vaccinations for healthy people need to be mandatory and severe fines if they are not done. At the very least, the unvaccinated need to be ostracized and isolated by everyone else.

[Techn0Girl]

77. You are wrong - completely wrong

You can NOT be contagious without having the flu. If your body fights it prior to the point where you show ANY symptoms then you are NOT shedding virus because you do NOT have an appreciable viral load in your body. Period.

[NJmaverick]

83. Your statement is completely and utterly FALSE

Adults are contagious 1 full day before being symptomatic and children up to 4 or 5 days. Those are facts and can not be altered by your opinions or desires. PERIOD!

[Techn0Girl]

189. Yes this is true

But it is not what you said before.
What you said before was that if you could be contagious without ever knowing about it. That is a false statement. Perhaps I misunderstood because at some point you will will fall ill and then you will know you are contagious.

And what will you do then?
You will do what everyone has always done. You will go home , rest and keep away from the public and thus prevent the dreaded Swine-Flu-Zombie-Apocalypse.

Just like we always have done.

And if everyone practices simple sanitary measures like appropriate hand washing and covering one's mouth when you sneeze then that will likely do a lot more good overall then a vaccine that is only 30% effective (give or take) and one that only perhaps 20-30% of the overall population at best will receive.

It's not the Apocalypse. It's just a flu.

[Grinchie]

136. How do you know? Your statement is complete nonsense

People die from Vaccines too. In fact more people are damaged and disabled for life dure to Vaccines than die, but I guess quality of life means nothing to you, as long as the Politicians and Pharmaceutical companies continue to rake in their Billions of dollars in revenue, and make it look like we have such a caring loving Government at the same time.

Meanwhile, we eat poisoned food, drink tainted water, eat Genetically Modified Food, breathe polluted air, and have never seen a living virus, despite the fact that we can create and manipulate nanoparticles with Atomic Microscopy.

No me Vaccine Cheerleaders.. The business makes too much money for the truth to come out, and that's why this vaccine has the weight of Propaganda behind it as heavily as that which supports GMO Food.

[bejamin wood]

165. We pass around shit all day long.

What planet are you from?

[Ian David]

38. Good. I'm glad you're not being vaccinated.

I hope you spend a lot of time with your family inside confined spaces.

Be sure to visit grandma in the nursing home.

[elocs]

43. Wow, I bet you are feeling particularly clever now.

Maybe we could eliminate choice and have armed medical squads going from door to door forcing everyone to be vaccinated. Wouldn't that be special? You could be the leader of your local vaccine police.

Fortunately I have a special place where I can put self righteous people like you where I never have to read their "cleverness" again.

[Ian David]

44. Nope. Why thwart Natural Selection? n/t

[cwydro]

46. I'm with you elocs.

I have never seen such hysteria on DU, mostly because everyone is buying into the media frenzy.

All these DUers who usually think they are too smart to fall for media inflation...lol.

Let's check in at the end of this nonsense and point out how we are not dead yet.

[uppityperson]

61. Which media frenzy?people are dying and more may die or vx's will kill you?

Kind of difficult for those who died to check in. Rather like saying we all survived childhood diseases so why vaccinate for them?

If I die, I will ask MrUP to check in and pm you directly and let you know. Or maybe my ghost will haunt DU and cause glitches for yrs.

[cwydro]

64. Oh, you will still be here!

I did survive chicken pox, German measles, and red measles. My sis had mumps but I never got it.

I thank god for the polio vaccine. Back in the day we took it in a sugar cube.

I was also vaccinated for smallpox as a child.

The flu frenzy I just see differently. My opinion, nothing else.

Btw, (and off the subject) wasn't it you who had that link to Africacam some years ago? I have never been able to get that back up, no matter how I search.

[uppityperson]

68. I was watching last week, links... My cousin's 21 yr old kid died from influenza aftermath.

http://www.africam.com/wildlife/index.php
I clicked on Nkorho Pan and it came up on popup right now. Actually is on that mainpage also.

[texastoast]

146. Here you go

http://www.africam.com/wildlife/umo0

This is my favorite spot. It's quiet now. Give it a while to load if you have dial up.

[earcandle]

54. Ditto!

[Jakes Progress]

78. I'm not afraid of rutabagas.

I have never eaten a rutabaga and the last time I got mumps was more than thirty years ago. So I guess avoiding rutabagas is a good way to avoid mumps.


Sheesh.

[texastoast]

143. Tritto

Just not going to get vaccinated. Never have. And still, DU has to put up with me. Why is everyone so afraid of this particular flu? Could it be the media hype? Ooogie booogie! Be skeered!

[GirlinContempt]

167. Because it's killing people?

[TwilightGardener]

209. Flu has ALWAYS killed people. Many thousands, every year.

[GirlinContempt]

238. So far it's killing MORE people, and more healthy people

as opposed to the immune-suppressed and the elderly.

[Butch350]

210. So does bullets, cars, planes, snakes, spiders, sharks...etc

You'd better get busy putting on your kevlar long johns!

[texastoast]

212. Flu always kills people

Vaccines kill people. People get flu from vaccines. Life kills people.

That a few weeks ago ONE DEATH in China from this flu made international news is just ridiculous. Why now? Why the frenzy now over this mild flu?

[TwilightGardener]

214. Well, let's just be honest here: The increased concern over THIS flu

has to do with: 1) its highly contagious properties among adults younger than 50, who haven't been exposed to similar flus before and are thus very vulnerable.
2) It's killing more of the healthy younger and middle aged adult population, rather than only the chronically ill and elderly, who customarily succumb to the usual yearly flu strains by the thousands.

The affected population is what's really key in concerns over this particular flu, let's all acknowledge that. People weren't as terrified when yearly seasonal flu was only taking out grannies in nursing homes. It's personal now!

[texastoast]

226. Well perhaps

it's a good lesson in compassion, then.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

150. It's okay lots of people let fear control them.

[Statistical]

8. Boo... facts suck. Anti-vax hysteria is so much more fun. All the cool kids are anit-vaxers

[CaliforniaPeggy]

11. ROFLMAO!

[era veteran]

197. Cool kids

That is a fact. I work with a lot of college students who are convinced they would be getting chipped. Too bad since they are in that dangerous age group.

[tandot]

9. I'll get it as soon as it is available. I have a 5 month old infant.

Thanks for posting the facts. I didn't need convincing, though

[CaliforniaPeggy]

12. Always glad to shed some light on a controversial topic...

Good luck getting some!

Have fun with your baby!

[Oregone]

22. You vaxing your baby?

[tandot]

33. He is 5 month and infants under 6 month will not get the flu shot.

He was also born prematurely at 3.5 lbs and is still about 3 lbs below the average weight for his age. I'll discuss having him vaccinated at his 6 month check-up next month.

[Oregone]

42. Mine is the same age

But will be six months in Dec. Mine is far over weight. Have fun with your newborn.

[betharina]

137. yep. 3 month old here--will be vaccinated as soon as i can. nt

[tiptoe]

14. k & r n/t.

[tiptoe]

15. dupe/delete

[usregimechange]

16. kick

[amborin]

18. K & R

[TreasonousBastard]

19. They won't believe it, but it's always good to...

get the facts out.

And speaking of facts, here's the CDC site with the skinny on the flu:

http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu /

Good stuff there, but a some of it is a little too technical for the tinfoil brigade to deal with.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

21. Thanks for the link!

Lots of useful info there.

I felt this thread would be helpful...

Glad you agree!

[Oregone]

20. Mine will contain squalene

"The product from GlaxoSmithKline, Canada's sole provider of H1N1 vaccine, called Arepanrix, uses an adjuvant called AS03, which consists of squalene (shark liver oil), DL-alpha-tocopherol and polysorbate 80. There are claims that squalene, part of the adjuvant used in the anthrax vaccine, was to blame for Gulf War syndrome, but the evidence is weak."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/technology/science/...

[TZ]

30. Oh christ give it up

.01% of a vaccine is the adjuvent. Plus a vaccine is shed by the spleen in about 10 days which is why some needs boosters. Stop with the fucking fear mongering.
And there is NO evidence that adjuvents were responsible for gulf war syndrome outside of the loony anti-vaxx's fringe campaign.
BTW all the adjuvent does is make the vaccine more potent, its never ever a free floating chemical like some "believe".

[Oregone]

41. Give what up?

I stated a fact and quoted a news article. The Canadian version is not the same as the American one, so the following doesn't apply universally: "The vaccine does not contain squalene".

I made no judgment on that. Ease up on the coffee.

[gkhouston]

35. Actually not. I've contacted the Little Gray Men and asked them to put a

Special Surprise in your dose.

[SidDithers]

51. Non-adjuvanted may be available if you want it...

Is the Government ordering non-adjuvanted vaccine? Who will it be recommended for and why?

The Government of Canada plans to purchase a small quantity of non-adjuvanted H1N1 vaccine (approx. 1.8 million doses) as part of its total order of 50.4 M doses.

The purchase of a small quantity of non-adjuvanted vaccine is a precautionary measure for pregnant women as no clinical data of the safety of adjuvanted vaccine in this group is available.

In these cases, should a non-adjuvanted vaccine prove to be effective, it may be the preferred option. The WHO has indicated that it has no special concerns about the safety of adjuvanted H1N1 vaccines in general. The WHO has also strongly recommended that pregnant women be immunized against the H1N1 flu virus, even if no non-adjuvanted vaccine is available.

.

http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/alert-alerte/h1n1/faq_rg_h1n...

Sid

[Oregone]

53. Im not sure they will hand out the non-adjuvated one like candy

Id imagine they will take firm measures to save it for kids and pregnant women, which is fine. Honestly, I don't care. If I get all messed up Ill just stop working and live off the system, so the notion doesn't bother me.

[uppityperson]

24. Person today told me not getting vx because those in power want to decrease population

and are using vaccines to do so. I think they think there is something in vaccines that will kill people, hoping 1/2 people in the world get vx and die for some reason.

I really didn't know what to say and managed to not burst out laughing. It is really sad.

[LeftishBrit]

49. And if the people in power want to decrease the population...

why is there so much opposition by so many powerful people to birth control and abortion?

[stray cat]

26. 1/2 of my employees are out sick with H1N1 -

This is tough on small businesses. And my employees are in their 20s so the flu is hitting them hard.

[FourScore]

29. Great post. Thank you. n/t

[TZ]

32. Thank you.

People are stupidly more afraid of the vaccine then they are of H1N1 which is probably going to result in unnecessary flu deaths.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

40. You're welcome, my dear TZ!

I thought it might be helpful to come out with the facts...

There's so much hysteria about the vaccine. It's nuts.

[existentialist]

45. "trace amounts of fact"

Nicely written. Appears to be good reporting, and proof that good reporting is not inconsistent with a sense of humor.

[neverforget]

47. My 5 year old daughter has the swine flu right now. She had a temperature

of 103.7 at the doctor's office yesterday and that was day 5. We were going to get her vaccinated next week. Too late. I recommend getting the vaccine.

[Robb]

59. Holy cow.

My thoughts are with your kiddo. That's a high temperature. Best for a speedy recovery.

[neverforget]

171. Thank you for your thoughts. It's 24 hours later and she still has a fever

around 101. This crap can last 2 weeks.

[kimmerspixelated]

82. My daughter had the flu , too.

102.9 closely watched, administered Oil of Oregano!... and I never intend to go without some strong antivirals in the house. Oil of Oregano helps squash viruses trmendously. Educate and be prepared.There are many other things you can do as well. I'd hate to think the only way out is through mainstream medicine. She is fine now. Of course I would have taken her to the doctor had her temp been too high.

[harun]

222. How did you know it was swine flu?

Not saying I don't believe you, in case you think I am asking for that reason. Just curious how they are determining it right now.

[colsohlibgal]

48. This Needs Wide Circulation

I love Bill Maher's show but he is getting way out there in quack land for being ultra paranoid about vaccines and risk, he needs to see these kind of facts. he isn't even convinced they work, despite acknowledging that Polio was virtually wiped out by vaccines. He was going off so much on this Friday night that his panel called him on it and he clearly got angry and defensive with them. It was awkward until Gary Shandling came on and got them all falling on the floor laughing, his shtick is still so funny, I was snarfing up my pepsi.

I'm a big time conspiracy loving gal, I have always thought the Warren Commission's report was shoddy fiction at best etc, but I don't think there is anything nefarious going on with flu vaccines, I think in this case they do have our best interest in mind. I get the regular flu shot each year (and haven't had any serious flu since I've done this) and I'll get the swine flu one as well. There is plenty to be paranoid about but this isn't worthy of it.

[kimmerspixelated]

86. I have to disagree.

I was glad to see Bill Maher bring it up. He knows how vaccines work. His point is that, one, it is overhyped for Big Pharma profits, and two, injecting yourself with crap the body does not recognize and is toxic is ludicrous. WHY CAN't they make GREEN Vaccines!?????

[SidDithers]

50. Highly recommended...

Great post.

Sid

[Kadie]

52. Thank you so much for posting this CaliforniaPeggy.

My kids are getting regular flu shots this week, and I am getting ready to talk to their Dr. about swine flu vac. I have been a little nervous (sometimes I think I read too much information) I get confused and worried.

K&R

[CaliforniaPeggy]

57. Glad I could help, my dear Kadie...

More info is a help!

I hope your kids stay flu-free!

[earcandle]

55. Like religion, this is a matter of personal choice and personal responsibility.

I don't think people should take it.
I don't think people should die for religious reasons either.
But I do think it is a matter of personal choice.

Some people take good care of their bodies and have strong
immune systems.
They don't need to take it.  

If we lived in a less political enviroment with a more
trustworthy medical system
perhaps it would be easier to make decisions like this for
your family.

Why have the military been involved in medical decisions
since 1790? 
why is it customary to have naval officers involved? 

[trotsky]

56. The big difference here is that your "personal choice" affects others.

People who have health issues that prevent them from receiving the vaccine rely on the rest of us to build an immunized "buffer" around them. This is also known as "herd immunity." (If enough members of a population are immune to a disease, there aren't enough vectors for it to spread effectively.)

Some people take good care of their bodies and have strong immune systems.

Yup, and some of those people have died from H1N1. It is pure foolishness to think that because you eat well and exercise, no virus can take you down.

[Grinchie]

138. You want to get rid of vectors? Dump that bucket of standing water

You'll oprevent more illness that way instead of injecting foreign material deep within your tissue and circumventing your own immune system

The only herd immunity around here is caused by the placebo effect that causes flu like symptom all by itself... The flu shot.

[trotsky]

147. Well, I see you've got your impenetrable ignorance shield up.

If only that could block viruses.

[D23MIURG23]

162. Yeah, because that's how they got rid of polio and smallpox...

oh wait... nevermind.

[Grinchie]

176. Those I happen to agree with, but not at birth.

I have memories of when we received those immunizations, at age 5.

Additionally, Smallpox in my day was a skin prick, not a few Ml's of thimerosol preserved dead viral and chicken protein, injected deep in my body.

The cheerleaders here have this strange idea that Doctors actually know how all of this crap actually works, when in reality they just get lucky because of the amazing ability of the body to fight of disease and contaminants.

They basically just have very good odds, but sometimes they roll craps, and it's the random individual that pays the price.

[trotsky]

237. Polio vaccine isn't given "at birth." Smallpox has been eradicated...

and vaccines are no longer given for it.

Where the heck are you getting your BLATANTLY FALSE information from?

[Name removed]

239. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Robb]

60. Bullshit. Utter fucking bullshit.

When a three year-old with an egg allergy who could not get the vaccine dies because you made a choice not to get it, because you thought your immune system had anything to fight off a NOVEL virus, I hope your tinfoil hat keeps you warm at night.

[earth mom]

63. Quit with the bullshit intimidation, derision and fear mongering. Your post is disgusting!!!

FYI: You are NOT the fucking decider and you have NO FUCKING RIGHT to tell anyone what they can or can not do with their own bodies!!!!!

[rd_kent]

66. What is disgustiong about pointing out a fact?

The fact being that those who CHOOSE not to get vaccinated put everyone else at risk.

[earth mom]

67. It's fear mongering and intimidation and nothing but. nt

[rd_kent]

70. It is? In what way? Do you dispute the fact that those that choose not to vaccinate place others

at risk? How is that intimidation and fear-mongering?

[Posteritatis]

72. Facts that make the fact-free uncomfortable are eeeeeebil! (nt)

[texastoast]

144. I've been exposed

And I work with people who are at higher risk (very fearful diabetics who happen general Bush fear believers). The time for me to pass on my cooties to the less immune and for the less immune to contract the flu has passed now.

They haven't gotten the flu. The likelihood of someone getting it from someone who has merely been exposed is extremely small. Probably less than getting run over by a train.

Life is risky.

[blondeatlast]

206. It is intimidation and fear-mongering because it is an unpleasant fact that the tinhatters

don't want to have to defend--because they have no defense for it.

I'm at-risk and so is my son. We choose where we go during flu season VERY carefully--and no, tinhatters, that doesn't mean we have no life. We just have a life free of tinhatnuttery.

Hmm--it actually works out rather well, now that I think of it.

[Grinchie]

240. You buying that Herd Immunity BS that the Pharmaceutical companies are pushing?

Your Herd Immunity rhetoric is nothing more that bullying tactics and Propaganda from a million dollar industry that partial science, and partial Placebo effect.

The argument is so flawed, that it's incredible that you guys have bought it. In reality, the people that refuse to take the vaccine are most at risk, and if it is their choice, then it all falls on their shoulders.

You are being taught that you are no longer qualified to manage your own health, and basic the Corporations now have a right to inject toxic material Deep within your tissue, where it will remain forever.

On the other hand, I choose to let my immune system do it's job, and I help it along by eating Organic, hand prepared food, drinking clean, distilled water, breathing air charged with Ozone and Negative Ions, and provide for the missing vitamins and supplements that are reduced in the modern diet.

I'll take my chances, simply because every Vaccine carries a risk and a chance for disease or damage.

4700 people worldwide have died in this so called pandemic.. 4700 out of 6,000,000,000 people. Do the math.

[Grinchie]

241. Dupe

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

249. If you are intimidated by facts I suggest you find another venue.

[Grinchie]

242. Care to point out just who would be at risk? The Vaccine makers Pocketbook?

Your talking point is pretty weak.

[LeftishBrit]

250. Um, people who get preventable diseases?

[kimmerspixelated]

90. Tou Fucking Che'!

These guys are batshit crazy, aren't they?

[NJmaverick]

92. There is something seriously wrong with a view point that finds FACTS disgusting

IMNHO

[LeftishBrit]

252. So is the fearmongering about vaccines.

'FYI: You are NOT the fucking decider and you have NO FUCKING RIGHT to tell anyone what they can or can not do with their own bodies!!!!!'

He isn't. What do you think, that he's going to jump through your computer screen and punch you in the nose or something if you don't get vaccinated? He is perhaps inflicting a guilt trip - but what about all the people on the other side who imply that anyone who *supports* vaccines is a pharma shill, or uncaring about autistic children, or actively trying to harm children? That is also inflicting a guilt trip!

[Vilis Veritas]

84. post hoc, ergo propter hoc

No proof, no facts and no proof of a direct correlation between the two events.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

96. Not true.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity

When people choose not to get vaccinated, they promote the spread of disease.

[Vilis Veritas]

160. Yes True. Re-read the post I responded to...

The author of the post stated that baby A dies as a result of n-Vaxer B not being vacinated. Baby A is not vacinated due to an egg allergy on the part of the baby. Disregard the fact that egg free vaccine exist, the direct correlation of Baby A to n-Vaxer B is not provable in the current context and at best is a poorly structured theorymon not supported by facts and based on a future state of unpredictable quanta.

Egg Free Vaccine: http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/health/scientists-d...

Post Hoc Fallacy: "Since that event followed this one, that event must have been caused by this one."

Please see the link...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc