H1N1 Vaccine Yes or No

[Erva]

Do the positives outweigh the negatives?

[Orrex]

1. .

:popcorn:

[blondeatlast]

3. Co'Cola? nt

[Pirate Smile]

2. Yes.

[Chemisse]

4. For the high risk population, I think the answer is yes - nt

[Erva]

23. My teenage children

I read up on it and the information is so vague.

[blondeatlast]

5. Yes.

[stray cat]

It depends - getting the H1N1 virus - yes or no? If you don't mind getting H1N1

save the vaccine for those of us who don't want to get H1N1 infect our family and be out of work for a week or two. Also, science needs people not to get the vaccine and get sick so we can study why it is so severe in some but not others - we need sick people and lots of them to get sufficient data (and actually cadavers so we can examine histology post-mortem - determining why the virus has such potential to damage the lungs compared to seasonal flu really requires at least a few intact pulmonary systems that can be taken apart and examined.

[Ian David]

6. Vaccinations will corrupt your precious bodily fluids.

If you're afraid of being vaccinated, save the vaccines for the people who are not afraid of it, and are therefore more fit to pass-on their genes.

There's a shortage.

I'm not going to try and talk stupid people into getting vaccinated this year.

If you're gonna be a big baby, I'll take your vaccine for MY family.

[Warpy]

10. I wish I could recommend a post

because that one deserves it.

[Robb]

11. He's been on a hell of a roll lately. nt

[blondeatlast]

20. Your pharmacist response the other day was a gem as well. nt

[Ian David]

87. I've been drunk. n/t

[blondeatlast]

19. +1. nt

[Erva]

22. A simple non-response works best

when you have nothing helpful to add. Next time keep your mean self to yourself.

[SIMPLYB1980]

34. Ironic you should say that.

What is helpful about that post.

[Chemisse]

29. Why exactly do you feel the need to be rude about it?

People were talking about yes or no, for themselves and their children.

Does everybody have to agree with your exact position or else they are 'stupid'?

[Robb]

32. I think it's the same psychology as road rage

When those around you put you and yours in danger through their own (what you perceive as) idiotic actions, you tends to get angry with them.

[Chemisse]

39. If someone does not get the swine flu vaccine

But you do, how does that put you in danger?

Live and let live. To each his own.

[Robb]

51. There are perfectly legitimate reasons not to get the vaccine.

A family member may be unable to get the shot for legitimate medical reasons. And they are put at increasing risk by each person who elects not to get the shot.

Tell me, does "live and let live" also apply to people who want to blow ciggy smoke in your face? Or run their diesel generator in the adjacent yard? Or is it a selective sentiment?

[TwilightGardener]

54. People have a duty to protect themselves. They don't have a duty

to take vaccines primarily to protect others, unless they work with high risk populations. You can't blame people who are unvaccinated for others who fall ill--not being vaccinated is not some sort of malicious act against society. One can remain unvaccinated and never get sick and never be a carrier. You can't blame people who get sick, either. Who you CAN blame are those who realize they are sick and have symptoms and are shedding the virus but still refuse to stay home from work, school, etc. and don't try to avoid contact with others. The people like the lady at Applebee's a few weeks ago, at the booth across from my family's, who spent the entire meal hacking up a fucking lung. She would stuff her fat face full of dinner between racking spasms--the wait staff kept thinking she was choking.

[Robb]

57. No one is "blaming the sick."

But not being vaccinated, when you could be, is indeed a malicious act against society.

If there are conditions that physically or economically preclude you from getting a shot that protects others, you may have an argument. Or if you are patently ignorant of the existence of a vaccine for an infectious, potentially deadly disease. Or merely ignorant of the effects not getting the vaccine may have on others.

You live in a society with a social contract. It is not every man for himself. Putting the onus for self-protection on the most vulnerable is not a particularly progressive ideal.

[TwilightGardener]

58. Bullshit. How many people get vaccines that they themselves don't necessarily need

(let's say, Gardasil for boys and men--how come the other party in spreading HPV isn't vaccinated? Because they can't get cervical cancer, I guess) in order to protect more vulnerable populations, unless they work or live with someone in that population? If you feel that a vaccine is unwarranted for yourself, you are not harming society by not getting it, you don't have a societal duty to put a foreign substance into your body on the THEORY that you MIGHT catch a disease and then you MIGHT get sick from it and MIGHT inadvertently spread it. You only do harm if you are sick AND spreading the disease. Some people are not personally concerned about the flu, and don't get flu shots. Fine. So get yours and protect yourself.

[Chemisse]

63. Very well said.

I do not understand why some people want to make this into a 'them vs us' issue.

[Robb]

67. Unless, unless, unless...

Unless they work or live with vulnerable populations. Unless they get the flu.

Which tropical libertarian island do you live on? Do you ever get lonely? And how is the weather?

[AlienGirl]

70. Boys and men probably SHOULD get Gardasil.

Although HPV is most easily spread during sex, it can live outside of the body for a time and spread from an unwashed hand, to an object, to another hand, to a mouth. HPV has been identified as a factor in IIRC at least 40% of oral cancers in people of both sexes, including in people who have not yet had sexual contact.

I know a man online who had oral cancer caused by HPV (he was in the original study that confirmed the HPV virus was present in the tumor). Because of the slow growth of the tumor his oncologist thinks he probably got infected as a young kid, when someone left viruses on a doorknob or something.

If there'd been Gardasil when he was younger, he wouldn't have had to get cancer; he could have gotten a shot instead.

Tucker

[TwilightGardener]

72. Well, I guess the reason they don't is because perhaps the risk of developing

cancer from HPV in men is probably weighted against the feasibility and cost and health risk of mass vaccination--apparently they haven't yet found a strong enough association or occurrence to warrant male vaccination. They figured out that HPV is very highly implicated in cervical cancer (not all forms, though), and cervical cancer is one of the more common cancers in women--thus it makes more sense cost and risk-wise to vaccinate girls. Interesting info, though, thanks.

[trotsky]

65. Pure DU Gold.

You live in a society with a social contract. It is not every man for himself. Putting the onus for self-protection on the most vulnerable is not a particularly progressive ideal.

One of the most beautiful and true things I've ever read on DU. Wonderfully put.

[Chemisse]

64. It is not my responsibility to get a vaccine to protect someone else

And 'live and let live' is a great guideline. The 'let live' part of it includes not doing things that will intentionally harm or do displeasure to someone.

We have the right to do to our bodies as we wish. Under your logic, there are people who might be affected by a woman's decision to have an abortion - perhaps couples who are waiting for a baby to adopt. It is not your responsibility to make a baby for them. Neither is it your responsibility to have a vaccination to protect someone else.

[seabeyond]

41. do they have enough shots to cover every single person? i guess one can see it as selfish

for the person that is least likely to get the flu, contaminate others yet use a limited source denying others.

does that in turn allow me to be an ass?

road rage? someone goes into a rage because of a precieved slight on the road, ergo in their rage they cause actual harm? and that makes sense to you

all in a perspective

[Ian David]

53. No, they don't have to agree with my exact position in order not to be stupid.

But please.

If someone is afraid of vaccines, then they shouldn't be vaccinated.

I won't try and change their minds this year.

Not since we're on a waiting list to get the H1N1 vaccine.

[Canuckistanian]

55. +1

[girl gone mad]

56. Only stupid people doubt the effectiveness of flu vaccines?

That's an absurd notion. There is a plethora of top notch research which casts doubts on the usefulness of flu vaccination. Plenty of reason to be skeptical of the h1n1 vaccine, too.

[Ian David]

59. If you say so. I won't try to change your mind. You go and do whatever you think best. n/t

[olegramps]

62. Could you post the sources?

[cynatnite]

81. Excellent response! n/t

[Robb]

7. Yes. nt

[hobbit709]

8. For most people +

Me, I don't like flu shots-they give me the flu. 3 shots-3 cases of flu. The only times in the last 40 years I've had the flu was about 7-10 days after each shot.
Of course my immune system is weird-half the vaccinations I've had didn't react right.
After 8 tries they gave up on the smallpox vaccination and my body did NOT like the plague shot.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

9. No

It has not been thoroughly tested, and there could be severe side effects (check the history of the flu outbreak in the '70s). How many people have died world-wide in this so-called "pandemic"? Last I saw was 250. That's not a pandemic, people. I don't like the way people are being forced to take the vaccine, either--to me it smells like corporations making sure they are insured high profits.

BTW, I work in a health clinic, and my doctor told us NOT to get this shot. By using preventative measures, last year none of us got the regular flu, even though we treated many patients shedding virus. I've heard from some of our patients that they used to get a flu shot but always got sick; by following the doctor's advice, they have gone for years without getting the flu at all.

[Robb]

12. May I ask

...What kind of health clinic, and in what state?

[blondeatlast]

16. +1. nt

[MilesColtrane]

37. There have been 946 deaths from H1N1 in the U.S. so far.

Statistically that's not a lot, but the numbers are increasing.

The United States has the most reported infections at 44,555, followed by Australia and Mexico.

The U.S. fatality rate for those infected with H1N1 is 1.52%.

The world wide fatality rate for the 1918 Spanish flu was 2.5%, with deaths totaling 50 million plus.

The average fatality rate for all other seasonal flu outbreaks is 0.1%.

[alarimer]

50. The difference between this and seasonal flu is the population it kills.

Most seasonal flu kills the old and the very young. With H1N1, it is killing people aged 10-60. It remains to be seen how bad this will be but it is on its second go-round.

[trotsky]

38. "It has not been thoroughly tested"

You should know that is patently false. It's the same vaccine production method that has been used to distribute the seasonal flu shot for the last ~60 years. The ONLY difference is that it contains inactivated H1N1 virus instead of any of the other umpteen dozen flu viruses. (And newsflash: when the virus is inactivated, it CANNOT infect you.)

[CAG]

43. Nice anecdotal information. Try stats next time if you want to impress.

The fact that none of you got sick in a relatively weak flu season last year means nothing.
How about checking the history of the actual rate of disease from the 70's swine flu vaccine.

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/

There have been 43 pediatric deaths in this nation. Your 250 worldwide number is way off. BUT THATS HAPPENED IN THE SUMMER AND EARLY FALL MONTHS, WHICH IS UNPRECEDENTED. The less the population gets vaccinated, the curves shown in the cdc link above will go thru the roof as we hit December, January, and February, and the curve will be inversely correlated with the number who get vaccinated. So, those kids who get sick and die, and those people above and beyond the 30,000 that "usually" die in a typical season, will have those that didn't get the vaccine to thank for.

Yes, some big pharma's will get money. Surprise, surprise. They get money when we get cancer, when we get heart disease, when we get...., but that doesn't mean that cancer and heart disease don't exist and don't need proper management.

[uppityperson]

85. WHO says at least 4735 deaths reported to them so far.

Of course you can always skew the #s by saying "well, many of them died of pneumonia, not influenza". Which gets me a really big eyeroll

[uppityperson]

84. That # is way wrong. 292 in USA w + flu test, 2029 including flu+pneumonia, 4735 worldwide

http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/updates/us/#totalcases
U.S. Influenza and Pneumonia-Associated Hospitalizations
and Deaths from August 30 – October 10, 2009
Posted October 16, 2009, 11:00 AM ET
Data reported to CDC by October 13, 2009, 12:00 AM ET


Hospitalizations Deaths
Influenza and Pneumonia Syndrome* 15,696 2,029
Influenza Laboratory-Tests** 4,958 292


WHO for worldwide
http://www.who.int/csr/don/2009_10_16/en/index.html
As of 11 October 2009, worldwide there have been more than 399232 laboratory confirmed cases of pandemic influenza H1N1 2009 and over 4735 deaths reported to WHO.

[glowing]

13. Its up to you. The vaccine is being administered nextt week in my county's schools.

Kids must sign the permission slip to recieve the vaccine. If you are sick or your child is sick with a cold or other flu like symptoms, don't take the vaccine. A vaccine tricks your body with a mild form so that it will recognize the real deal and fight off the flu when you are exposed. So, if you are running a fever or your child is running a fever or you are already run-down with a cold or fatigue.. don't take the vaccine. Your body is going to react to the vaccine. It is much harder to fight the vaccine's effects if your immune systom is compromised with another cold or flu. This is the reason you get the flu vaccines before flu season.. so that you are not exposed already or sick already.

If you are unsure, wait a week or two once the vaccine has been out in the masses. If it seems their are problems with the vaccine, then you will know within the first week or two. Ultimately, its up to you if you want to get the vaccine. If you think you've been exposed to the virus already, it may be much too late to even get the vaccine.

AND all bodies respond differently to vaccines. For most of the population, nothing happens. You recieve a shot and are immunized from the swine flu. For some, their bodies react badly and their are consequences. Making sure that you are healthy when recieving any immunization is just smart.

[stray cat]

14. the H1N1 vaccine is made the same way and by the same people that make the seasonal vaccine.

It is a killed vaccine - so since it causes an immune response there will be mild side effects from inflammation just like the seasonal flu vaccine. In the US it is made in eggs so if you are allergic to eggs you are out of luck and should avoid this vaccine just like the vaccine for seasonal flu.

Each year new antigens are swapped for the seasonal flu vaccine based on what are anticipated to be the common and most virulent flu strains. H1N1 swaps an antigen into the regular seasonal flu vaccine.

In fact, if we had discovered H1N1 two or three months earlier it would have been a component in the seasonal vaccine instead of a separate vaccination.

[The River]

15. Too Old To Need It

I'm in the older group which probably has immunity already.
I will be getting a seasonal shot as I do every year.
It beats the hell out of having the flu

[seabeyond]

17. no. nt

[CBR]

18. Still undecided. nt

[corpseratemedia]

21. yes for me

i have ongoing problems resulting from contracting a flu decades ago

when I don't get the flu shot, I get the flu, which worsens the problems

got the seasonal, getting h1N1 as soon as I can get it.

[Erva]

24. Thanks for the honest opinion N/T

[EndersDame]

25. I want to get it but will wait for kids pregnant women and people with immune problems to get i

it first. I heard that they made less then they needed

[Ichingcarpenter]

26. "I would refuse to let my child have the flu vaccine "

if he hadn't died of measles earlier this year."

"All right, you got me! I don't love my kids."

The Onion..... http://www.theonion.com/content/amvo/parents_against_swine_flu_vaccine


Get the vaccine.

UK NEWS
SWINE FLU KILLS YOUNG MOTHERS
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/134282/Swine-flu-kills-young-mothers

[Jennicut]

27. For me and my daughter, totally yes.

We have diabetes and asthma. We get regular flu shots every year.

[ecstatic]

28. The thing I hate is that I'm at the mercy of my inner circle

Obviously this flu might be a little more contagious than past flus, so I'm hoping they are taking the proper precautions (and I brought it up a few times). I've only had the flu once or twice in my life but all this fearmongering is beginning to make me nervous!

[northernlights]

30. it's a moot point since it not available where I'm at

both the university where I'm a student and the financial company where I work have been unable to obtain the vaccine. I'm in a lower risk category anyway, due to my age. And I don't raise pigs, so it's not like I'd infect my herd.

So for me, it's irrelevent. I will forgoe the stampede in order to allow someone in a higher risk group or with greater need (say a family of dependents to support) to be vaccinated. If there is a local outbreak, I'll increase my dose of Sambucol as a prophylactic and will stay home if I'm able. I'm already close to finished my annual preparations to be home for a few weeks in the event of an ice storm or blizzard.

Once the vaccine is actually available here, I'll make a more definite decision.

[SIMPLYB1980]

31. Already got mine.

[MilesColtrane]

33. For me, no.

If I had kids I would get them vaccinated.

[TwilightGardener]

35. I suspect I've already had H1N1 this past summer, so I'll forego it.

I'm not high-risk, will let those who need it get it. Haven't made up my mind on the regular flu shot.

[bigwillq]

36. No

I never, ever had a flu shot. I will take my chances. I had the flu last year, and it was horrible, but still am not getting the shot. My mom had a flu shot last year, and still got the flu. Was as sick as I was when I got it.

[girl gone mad]

40. Young and healthy..

don't mind building up my immunities naturally. Don't think the vaccine will be very effective since the virus will likely have mutated.

[AlienGirl]

71. Young and healthy people are the ones at disproportionate risk from this flu. nt

[wordpix]

74. it's true that in my area some kids came down with h1n1 at camp---also spreads in college dorms

[girl gone mad]

78. More at risk of catching it..

less at risk of serious complications.

[rucky]

42. Not for me.

I'm taking elderberry extract, doing the neti pot, washing my hands and am not in crowded places very often.

[The Backlash Cometh]

44. Sambucol?

What happened to the good, thick Sambucol from Israel? This new stuff seems watery.

[northernlights]

45. my bottle says the modified the formula to make it more palatable

Same active ingredients. Slightly different delivery vehicle.

[rucky]

52. Mine's called Sambucus

It's thicker than office coffee, and had the highest concentration of the ones I saw at the shop.

[newfie11]

46. no n/t

[xchrom]

47. i can't imagine not getting it. nt

[SidDithers]

48. Absolutely yes....nt

Sid

[Forkboy]

49. If I was in a risk group or cared about dying I wouldn't hesitate.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

60. Already had it.

[Kievan Rus]

61. I'm getting it

[olegramps]

66. I would encourage those don't want to get the vaccine:

Firstly there are some who have a reaction to the egg protein that the virus is cultured in and they can't tolerate the vaccine. Unfortunately, those who have had a reaction to a prior vaccine can not be convinced that there is no possibility of getting the flu from the vaccine.

However, what ever is your reason not to get the vaccine, especially for those in the 6 months to 24 years category, please look into vitamin D therapy. There are documented studies that have demonstrated that it can have an effect on immunity to viruses.

[Blue_In_AK]

68. I don't have any philosophical issue with vaccines,

but my husband and I are not getting this one. We're outside of the at-risk age group and we stay at home mostly since we're retired, so our chances of being exposed are far less. I haven't had a really serious bout of the flu since 1968 when I was down with the Hong Kong flu for two weeks. I think I may have made myself somewhat immune.

[ctaylors6]

69. Probably not going to get it myself

But I'll have my 8 year old daughter get the vaccine if she doesn't get the flu itself by the time the shots are available. I've read that it may be the beginning of November before they're available near me.

I make sure my kids get every recommended vaccine. If a type of vaccine is new (eg when chicken pox first came out), I sometimes wait a year or two depending on the type of vaccine. I'll admit I was a little hesitant about the h1n1 vaccine. However, I've seen first hand how sick this flu made my son (he just had it) and many of his friends (and their parents). I know several kids who are fighting serious secondary infections. Healthy kids with no underlying illnesses. I've also read about the death rates in kids and the way it appears to be affecting their lungs.

So I've seen how it affects kids. And I've read about how hard it's hitting pregnant women. If there's a limited amount of vaccines, the people in the high risk groups need the vaccine much more than I do. If it ends up that the vaccines are easily and widely available I'll get one. I also think I may have grown a few of those antibodies already considering how my son coughed and threw up on me while he had the h1n1 flu.

[Posteritatis]

73. Yep; planning on getting it; continue to despise antivaxxers. (nt)

[wordpix]

75. video: "politics being played" and "fastracked unlicensed components"

I am undecided but this is an interesting video:

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5237185n

[Odin2005]

76. Yes. I'm sick of the anti-vax BS.

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[arthritisR_US]

79. No. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

80. Yes... absolutely they do

[carlyhippy]

82. not sure

say a person had it in the 70's, is the immunity still there?

[uppityperson]

83. Yes. Overall, yes. If you have egg allergy or other health issue impacting getting it,then no

but overall, yes. It does.

[lonestarnot]

94. Egg allergy means no vaccine?

[dysfunctional press]

86. definitely. i have an immune system disorder, and diminished lung function.

[WVRICK13]

88. I Was Not Getting The Vaccine Until

I thought about people I am around who need to be protected from H1N1. Although I am a bit skeptical about vaccines I feel my fear does not justify putting others at risk.

[betharina]

89. i have a 3 month old. so me, my husband and 2 year old son will be vaccinated,

as soon it becomes available.

[Strelnikov_]

90. What's it matter? It will probably not be available for most n/t

[tammywammy]

91. I would get it, but I'm waiting for now due to the shortage

I'm 29, and would rather the health care workers/first responders/pregnant women and young children get it first. I've been around a few people that have gotten the H1N1 flu so far, and *knock on wood* I still haven't gotten it.

If there's eventually more of the vaccine and not the shortage, then yes I wouldn't hesitate to get it. It's been tested just as well as the regular flu shot which I've gotten for years and not gotten the flu.

[Barack_America]

92. Hell yes.

And I'm getting it Thursday, thank God.

I am an asthmatic with a strong family history of people dying from overwhelming sepsis (read: cytokine storm). And I'm a medical student.

I have been desperate to get my hands on the vaccine.

[BuddhaGirl]

93. absolutely not

never had a flu shot and I'm not going to start now. I go the preventive route by keeping my immune system healthy.