Obama 'may unveil Afghan surge'

[demoleft]

Source: bbc

US President Barack Obama may announce a substantial surge in US troops to Afghanistan, the BBC has been told.

The BBC's Newsnight said the increase could be announced next week.

However, White House press secretary Robert Gibbs dismissed the report, saying the president had not yet made a decision on troop numbers.

Earlier, UK PM Gordon Brown said Britain would send 500 more forces personnel to Afghanistan - but only if key conditions were met.


Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8308133.stm

---

it makes 2, after uk. italy recently denied an increase was on the agenda.

[beachmom]

1. We should probably wait for the official announcement.

Grain of salt. That's how I take this article.

[demoleft]

2. right. but bbc is usually well informed. we'll see. n/t

[Oregone]

3. That'd be interesting

Because the cheerleaders were pointing out how the 14,000 was just part of the normal rotation from the laureate. If true, they may be eating crow on this one

[peace13]

4. If he must fight a war, I would prefer that the deed is done and then we hear about it.

We already had one *resident that told all while our people were still on the battlefield and that didn't work out too well.

[Wizard777]

5. No need to go telegraphing the punch. Even if we do live in a computerized cell phone age.

Oh hell, especially because we live in a computerized cell phone age.

[SIMPLYB1980]

6. Good.

If true.

[L0oniX]

22. Hey ...why don't you sign up and help them out.

[SIMPLYB1980]

29. That argument didn't work when "progressives"

tried it with the right, and holds no weight with me. I think you should join the military before you talk about military matters is a strawman.

[Jakes Progress]

32. Hmmm. Doesn't like progressives.

Thinks we should fight wars but only as long as it won't hurt him.

Hmm. Who does that remind me of?

[SIMPLYB1980]

38. Because I was never afraid of republicans enough

to stop being a Liberal Democrat.

[Jakes Progress]

52. I see you've never been afraid of saying stupid things

or clarity or inanity, either.

One who wants war without being willing to fight is a hypocrite.

[L0oniX]

33. Your welcome to use brute force rather than understanding.

"Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy." -- Henry Kissinger

Patrotism is for fools!

Never was a patriot yet, but was a fool.

– John Dryden

A patriot is a fool in ev’ry age.

– Alexander Pope.

Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.

– Samuel Johnson

In Dr. Johnson’s famous dictionary, patriotism is defined as the last resort of a scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer, I beg to submit that it is the first.

– Ambrose Bierce

Patriotism is as fierce as a fever, pitiless as the grave, blind as a stone, and irrational as a headless hen.

– Ambrose Bierce

That pernicious sentiment, “Our country, right or wrong.”

– James Russell Lowell

“My country right or wrong” is a thing that no patriot would think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying, “My mother drunk or sober.”

– G. K. Chesterton

Patriotism which has the quality of intoxication is a danger not only to its native land but to the world, and “My country never wrong” is an even more dangerous maxim than “My country, right or wrong.”

– Bertrand Russell

Patrioism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it.

– George Bernard Shaw

Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious.

– George Bernard Shaw

You’ll never have a quiet world till you knock the patriotism out of the human race.

– George Bernard Shaw

Patriotism is a pernicious, psychopathic form of idiocy.

– George Bernard Shaw

Patriotism is an ephemeral motive that scarcely ever outlasts the particular threat to society that aroused it.

– Denis Diderot

To me, it seems a dreadful indignity to have a soul controlled by geography.

– George Santayana

The Athenian democracy suffered much from that narrowness of patriotism which is the ruin of all nations.

– H.G. Wells

Nationalism is our form of incest, is our idolatry, is our insanity. “Patriotism” is its cult. . . . Just as love for one individual which excludes the love for others is not love, love for one’s country which is not part of one’s love for humanity is not love, but idolatrous worship.

– Erich Fromm

One of the great attractions of patriotism–it fulfills our worst wishes. In the person of our nation we are able, vicariously, to bully and cheat, Bully and cheat, what’s more, with a feeling that we are profoundly virtuous.

– Aldous Huxley

Many studies have discovered a close link between prejudice and “patriotism” . . . Extreme bigots are almost always super-patriots.

– Gordon Allport

It seems like the less a statesman amounts to, the more he loves the flag.

– Elbert Hubband

Patriotism varies, from a noble devotion to a moral lunacy.

– William Inge

Every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud, adopts, as a last resource, pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and glad to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority.

– Arthur Schopenhauer

Patriotism is the passion of fools and the most foolish of passions.

– Arthur Schopenhauer

Patriotism corrupts history.

– Goethe

Into the cultural and technological system of the modern world, the patriotic spirit fits like dust in the eyes and sand in the bearings. Its net contribution to the outcome is obscuration, distrust, and retardation at every point where it touches the fortunes of modern mankind.

– Thorstein Veblen

The standardization of mass-production carries with it a tendency to standardize a mass-mind, producing a willing conformity, not merely to common ways of living, but to common ways of thinking and common valuations. The worst defect of patriotism is its tendency to foster and impose this common mind, and so to stifle the innumerable germs of liberty.

– J.A. Hobson

2. Patriotism and War:

At the bottom of all patriotism is war: that is why I am no patriot.

– Jules Renard

No other factor in history, not even religion, has produced so many wars as has the clash of national egotisms sanctified by the name of patriotism.

– Preserved Smith

[SIMPLYB1980]

39. It's going to take both,

Understanding and brute force.

[gleaner]

63. I think you have misinterpreted .....

what OP is saying. I would read that to say that if one is gung ho to send more troops into battle, one should be prepared to lead the way. I tend to agree. It's easy to urge others to make sacrifices, but it doesn't mean much unless you are prepared to make them yourself.

All that talking about military matters requires is following current events closely, making sure that the information you receive is true, and maybe a good read of "The Art of War" which will tell you everything about strategy and military tactics you will ever want to know.

There is a vast distance between discussing something you have never done and urging someone to go and die in your place.

[BeHereNow]

35. Oh my, we ARE in trouble.

Do you actually BUY the shit being spewed behind this corporate propaganda?
Here, do some homework- unless you are to busy signing up
to go and die for the oil companies.
http://www.usacc.org/content.php?type=page&id=2&chi=5&par=3

BHN

:banghead:

[earth mom]

36. So you think it's okay to bomb & kill innocent people for no fucking reason?

:puke:

p.s. No make that you're okay with bombing & killing innocent people for the sake of greed aka an oil pipeline?

[SIMPLYB1980]

41. LOL.

[earth mom]

46. Not funny. Sounds like you should join Blackwater.

:puke:

[L0oniX]

48. I gotta wonder how some of these nut jobs keep their DU membership.

:shrug:

[earth mom]

49. I know-it boggles the mind.

:wow:

[L0oniX]

47. ...don't look now ...everyone is laughing at you. n/t

[SIMPLYB1980]

50. That's fine let them laugh.

Going to bed enjoy your poutrage.

[buffalowings]

62. gas pipelines

Does anyone know why the news (all stations, including PBS) avoid talking about TAPI and IPI? This seems significant in regards to the middle east, IRAN, INDIA, and PAKISTAN, not to mention Afghanistan.

[jonnyblitz]

37. oh look, a stupid fuck. nt

[BeHereNow]

42. ROFL!!! I loves ya baby.

BHN

[L0oniX]

43. LMFAO

:rofl:

[BeHereNow]

45. Me too!!!!

Laughing so hard the tears ore streaming down my face.
Fucking brilliant post!!!!!!!!
BHN

[BeHereNow]

44. Still laughing out loud...

Thanks, I needed to laugh.
BHN

[bvar22]

51. I rarely use smilies, preferring to use words, but...

:rofl:

[winyanstaz]

7. well dang...this is bad news but..I will wait until I hear it is true

before I give up on Obama keeping his word. His recient efforts to downsize in Iraq has given me new hope so I dont want to give up too soon.
I want Obama to be the president this Nation needs and so I am willing to keep hoping and watching.

[Igel]

12. He's been consistent.

Afghanistan is the "necessary" war. It's the one we should have been fighting.

By "consistent" I only have in mind the last 18 months or so, since he was a contender for the dem nomination.

[winyanstaz]

17. Please enlighten us as to why this is a "necessary war"

[L0oniX]

24. +1 million

[SammyWinstonJack]

54. Waiting to hear that too.

:thumbsup:

[Jakes Progress]

34. Necessary for what?

And who is the "we" you are talking about? You gonna be enlisting?

[sendero]

8. I'll bet money..

.... this report is correct. Because that is just the kind of jackass Obama is shaping up to be.

[BBG]

10. I'll sadly lose that bet...

but still hold out hope that saner minds will prevail.

[twitomy]

11. Did not Obama say during the campaign

That the "real" war on terrorism is in Afghanistan, not Iraq, and he was commited to winning Afgahnistan?

From his 2008 website:

"Barack Obama will work with his military commanders to responsibly end the war in Iraq. Obama will refocus our resources on al Qaeda in Afghanistan and finish the fight with the terrorists who attacked us on 9/11."

[dflprincess]

14. Yeah, and when he was campaigning he didn't like insurance mandates

(and when he was a state senator he liked single payer).

If he can change his mind about forcing us to contribute to the protection of the health insurance companies, he can change his mind about Afghanistan. Or, as the cheer leaders say about how his position on health insurance has changed, his opinion could "evolve".

[twitomy]

15. So hes a jackass for not

changing his mind?. Seems kinda harsh to me.

[dflprincess]

16. I just find what he changes his mind about interesting

When it comes to health insurance, the further he moves up the food change, the more corporate friendly his attitude becomes.

I suppose the same may be true of Afghanistan as the war profiteers stand to make a lot of money there and I imagine they contribute as much to campaigns as do the health insurers.

[winyanstaz]

56. people are dying....because he wont change his mind...

doesnt that seem "harsh" to you?

[ipaint]

19. The people who attacked us aren't in afghanistan.

minor detail.

[L0oniX]

21. ...and I seem to recall that it wasn't the Taliban either.

[dflprincess]

26. The administration is now saying they'll "work with" the Taliban

provided they renounce terrorism. No word on whether or not "renoucing terrorism" includes treating women and children decently.

[L0oniX]

28. I don't think Rummy cared about the women and children when he made the arms deal with the Taliban..

.. help them defeat the Russians.

[SammyWinstonJack]

55. +1 nt

[dflprincess]

9. Before Obama does this

(if the BBC is correct) he should read "The Best and the Brightest", he might find it informative.

[Mari333]

13. dont do it, bama. it will be your Vietnam.

[RetroLounge]

18. It already is, I fear...

RL

[L0oniX]

27. +1 ...and all the fools who go over there to fight over some fucked up policy...

and throw away their lives for nothing. Patriotism is for fools.

Never was a patriot yet, but was a fool.

– John Dryden

A patriot is a fool in ev’ry age.

– Alexander Pope.

Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.

– Samuel Johnson

In Dr. Johnson’s famous dictionary, patriotism is defined as the last resort of a scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer, I beg to submit that it is the first.

– Ambrose Bierce

Patriotism is as fierce as a fever, pitiless as the grave, blind as a stone, and irrational as a headless hen.

– Ambrose Bierce

That pernicious sentiment, “Our country, right or wrong.”

– James Russell Lowell

“My country right or wrong” is a thing that no patriot would think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying, “My mother drunk or sober.”

– G. K. Chesterton

Patriotism which has the quality of intoxication is a danger not only to its native land but to the world, and “My country never wrong” is an even more dangerous maxim than “My country, right or wrong.”

– Bertrand Russell

Patrioism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it.

– George Bernard Shaw

Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious.

– George Bernard Shaw

You’ll never have a quiet world till you knock the patriotism out of the human race.

– George Bernard Shaw

Patriotism is a pernicious, psychopathic form of idiocy.

– George Bernard Shaw

Patriotism is an ephemeral motive that scarcely ever outlasts the particular threat to society that aroused it.

– Denis Diderot

To me, it seems a dreadful indignity to have a soul controlled by geography.

– George Santayana

The Athenian democracy suffered much from that narrowness of patriotism which is the ruin of all nations.

– H.G. Wells

Nationalism is our form of incest, is our idolatry, is our insanity. “Patriotism” is its cult. . . . Just as love for one individual which excludes the love for others is not love, love for one’s country which is not part of one’s love for humanity is not love, but idolatrous worship.

– Erich Fromm

One of the great attractions of patriotism–it fulfills our worst wishes. In the person of our nation we are able, vicariously, to bully and cheat, Bully and cheat, what’s more, with a feeling that we are profoundly virtuous.

– Aldous Huxley

Many studies have discovered a close link between prejudice and “patriotism” . . . Extreme bigots are almost always super-patriots.

– Gordon Allport

It seems like the less a statesman amounts to, the more he loves the flag.

– Elbert Hubband

Patriotism varies, from a noble devotion to a moral lunacy.

– William Inge

Every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud, adopts, as a last resource, pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and glad to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority.

– Arthur Schopenhauer

Patriotism is the passion of fools and the most foolish of passions.

– Arthur Schopenhauer

Patriotism corrupts history.

– Goethe

Into the cultural and technological system of the modern world, the patriotic spirit fits like dust in the eyes and sand in the bearings. Its net contribution to the outcome is obscuration, distrust, and retardation at every point where it touches the fortunes of modern mankind.

– Thorstein Veblen

The standardization of mass-production carries with it a tendency to standardize a mass-mind, producing a willing conformity, not merely to common ways of living, but to common ways of thinking and common valuations. The worst defect of patriotism is its tendency to foster and impose this common mind, and so to stifle the innumerable germs of liberty.

– J.A. Hobson

2. Patriotism and War:

At the bottom of all patriotism is war: that is why I am no patriot.

– Jules Renard

No other factor in history, not even religion, has produced so many wars as has the clash of national egotisms sanctified by the name of patriotism.

– Preserved Smith

Naturally the common people don’t want war . . . Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders . . . All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism.

– Hermann Goering.

That worst outcrop of herd life, the military system, which I abhor . . . This plague-spot of civilization ought to be abolished with all possible speed. Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism–how passionately I hate them!

– Albert Einstein

3. Patriotism and Religion:

Patriotism is a kind of religion; it is the egg from which wars are hatched.

– Guy de Maupassant

God and Country are an unbeatable team; they break all records for oppression and bloodshed.

– Luis Buñuel

To be patriotic, hate all nations but you own; to be religious, all sects but your own; to be moral, all pretenses but your own.

– Lionel Strachey

When a dog barks at the moon, then it is religion; but when he barks at strangers, it is patriotism!

– David Starr Jordan

4. The American Syndrome:

If you have a weak candidate and a weak platform, wrap yourself up in the American flag and talk about the Constitution.

– Matt Quay

How much longer are we going to think it necessary to be “American” before (or in contradistinction to) being cultivated, being enlightened, being humane, & having the same intellectual discipline as other civilized countries? It is really too easy a disguise for our shortcomings to dress them up as a form of patriotism.

– Edith Wharton

The 100 percent American is 99 percent an idiot.

– George Bernard Shaw

Treason is in the air around us everywhere. It goes by the name of patriotism.

– Thomas Corwin

5. Three relatively positive assessments of patriotism:

A patriot is somebody who protects his country from his government. Or better yet: who has the guts to protect his country from its government.

– Piotyr Dirk

Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism.

– George Washington

Dissent is the highest form of patriotism.

– Thomas Jefferson

[timeforpeace]

58. The only thing missing is the news coverage or the entire country would know this.

[blm]

60. NPR had an interesting analysis of the decision and it DID sound like Vietnam.

>>>>>
The thesis of Tuesday's NYT story is that this pattern may obscure her real influence. Secretary Clinton's power may come by way of serving as an amen corner for Secretary Gates, the most powerful member of President Obama's cabinet. By endorsing Gates's view on Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, and other issues, Secretary Clinton guarantees that the issue will not be framed internally as an us vs. him issue, where the "us" is Team Obama and the "him" is the holdover appointee from the Bush administration. She has thus played a crucial role in forging the most important, if most often misunderstood (cf. the curious convergence of views between former Vice President Dick Cheney and the Nobel Peace Prize Committee) fact about President Obama's national security policy thus far: its dramatic continuity with President Bush's national-security policy.

Ironically, however, that continuity may have played out its course. As the NYT story also suggests, Clinton and Gates appear to be teaming up to do something that Bush did not do: Stick with an incremental policy rather than embrace a surge. The reporters seem confident that Clinton and Gates favor a middle course between Biden's abrupt shift in mission and McChrystal's Iraq-like (Bush-like) surge in military and civilian resources.

Even without Clinton and Gates recommending it, most observers probably would bet that President Obama is going to split the difference in this fashion. The politics of the Afghanistan decision are such that a split-the-difference option is almost inescapable. Having the two most important cabinet principals endorsing it would make it virtually a foregone conclusion.

It would also do one more thing, which thus far has not happened: It would put Secretary Clinton's imprimatur on an important policy. The war in Afghanistan has already become President Obama's war. If he adopts Secretary Clinton's recommendation, it will also become her war. What comes of that war may well determine a key part of how history rates both of these political leaders in the foreign-policy arena.
>>>>>>

[L0oniX]

20. Yea ...the Russians gave up but we will win. rrrrriiiiiiiiggggggghhhhhttttt

:wtf:

[dysfunctional press]

23. will they be using all the additional troops to deliver the checks to the warlords...?

kinda like how the iraq surge worked.

[L0oniX]

25. Uhm ...no. They are going to be used as drug mules.

:sarcasm:

[spanone]

30. and he 'may not'

[BeHereNow]

31. Translation: Obama continues the Azerbaijian Chamber of Commerce Agenda

Gallery of Rogues pulling the strings on our new improved puppet:
http://www.usacc.org/content.php?type=page&id=2&chi=5&par=3

Pipelines. Period.

BHN

[Mari333]

53. ty for the link

[earth mom]

40. There it is folks: War really IS Peace in Obama's world. nt

[Karmadillo]

57. Gosh. At this rate, he'll be a lock for next year's Nobel Peace Prize.

nt

[timeforpeace]

59. The Nobel Peace Committee's quid pro quo didn't come about, do they get their money back?

[Karmadillo]

61. RIght after those who fell for the "Change you can believe in" schtick get their vote back.

nt