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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 01:57 AM
Original message
One in ten US high school dropouts incarcerated
A new study reveals that a staggering one in ten American male high school dropouts, ages 16 to 24, is either in prison or juvenile detention.

Among young black male high school dropouts, more than a fifth, 22.9 percent, are incarcerated, compared to 7.2 percent among Asians, 6.6 percent among whites, and 6.2 percent among Hispanics, according to the study conducted by researchers at Northeastern University in Boston. The ratio behind bars or in detention remains high even among young men with a high school diploma, among whom 1 in 35 are caught up in the criminal justice system.

The unemployment rate among high school dropouts is extremely high, the study reports. In 2008, 54 percent of dropouts ages 16 to 24 were unemployed, as compared to 32 percent with high school diplomas, and 13 percent with a college degree in the same age group. Among young black dropouts, the unemployment rate was 79 percent, compared to 54 percent for whites and 47 percent for Hispanics (including illegal immigrants.)

Were trying to show what it means to be a dropout in the 21st Century United States, Andrew Sum, who directed the study, told the New York Times. Its one of the countrys costliest problems. The unemployment, the incarceration ratesits scary.

Sum said the unemployment rate among young dropouts has increased across the board since the study was conducted in 2008.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/oct2009/drop-o13.shtm...

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Chemisse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 03:57 AM
Response to Original message
1. Keep in mind
The kids who drop out are often the ones who are in trouble at school. So the reason they drop out may also be the reason they become incarcerated.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 05:37 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. Or, as was the case in my situation, the 'trouble' was rooted in reluctance to conform
Then again, I've never once regretted dropping out of high school.
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Chemisse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. LOL - sounds like me
I felt I could learn more just traveling around. Later, when I was ready to learn, I got my GED and went on to college.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 04:43 AM
Response to Original message
2. Prison is big business today..
Can't have big business without a product.

This is a win/win situation for the prison business, make the schools so insufferably boring that only lemmings can take it and then incarcerate the non-lemmings.

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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 05:20 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Sorry, but the attitude reflected in your post doesn't help
Re, "...make the schools so insufferably boring that only lemmings can take it". Labeling the kids who tough it out or who are genuinely interested in learning as lemmings, whether or not they have the best schools or teachers, isn't helpful. It isn't just the "cool" kids and rebels who drop out but kids who need greater encouragement and support both at school and yes, AT HOME. I grew up on the wrong side of an impoverished town in the Appalachian foothills. Though our buildings were old and our teachers underpaid, our classes limited (some important ones non-existent) and activities a rarity, I was damn lucky to have parents who instilled in me a love for learning and supplemented that education in every way they could. Schools are not substitutes for home nor teachers for parents.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 05:27 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. I love learning too..
Edited on Tue Oct-13-09 05:44 AM by Fumesucker
But I hate regimentation, I found school to be mind numbingly boring and the social aspect was even worse.

I guess you missed my very recent Chomsky OP..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

"The whole educational and professional training system is a very elaborate filter, which just weeds out people who are too independent"

Edited to add: It should come as no surprise to you that the USA has the highest incarceration rate in the world, bar absolutely none.

As someone who loves learning you should be able to put the pieces of this remarkably simple and yet strangely obscure puzzle together at least as well as I.

And a couple of more minor points, my post was at least partially snark.. And.. lemmings don't really march off the cliffs in lockstep as is thought in popular culture. Which was another level of snark too..



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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 05:56 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. I understand where you're coming from
My experiences were probably much the same as yours. Though I do believe that parents can nuture an independent and creative child outside the classroom in ways not possible within the confines of a classroom. Even the experience of "sticking it out" in a regimented environment whilst maintaining a strong sense of self can be a positive experience that can benefit a child throught his or her life. Parental support and guidance is the key.
Besides, the regimented environment of a school is NOTHING compared to a regimented life behind bars.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 06:07 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Life in America is becoming ever more regimented..
And children vary a lot in their tolerance for bullshit and their ability to "stick it out".

In many ways America is a remarkably conformist society, while at the same time paying lip service to non conformism.

It's all extremely confusing to a lot of kids, no wonder they drop out.

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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 04:59 AM
Response to Original message
3. I wouldn't trust any statistics from WSWS
So it's impossible to know from your article what the relationship between drop out rates and incarceration is.

As you know, WSWS is a big scam run by a wealthy corporate executive who in his other job does p.r. printing for America's biggest corporations.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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armyowalgreens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 05:01 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. I hear you attack WSWS. Why do you hate it so much?
Edited on Tue Oct-13-09 05:12 AM by armyowalgreens
I honestly don't know that much about the organization.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 05:09 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Go to the link I provided in my post
They are a corporate front posing as a leftist organization. Their sole purpose is to attack progressive organizations and unions. It's all explained at the link and following posts.

It is not a reliable source, and is no better than Stormfront, neo-Nazis or Rense.

Why anyone is allowed to link to it here remains a mystery.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 06:53 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. because he's an anklebiter.
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. Cause he's a faux socialists

One of the last of Scoop Jackson's poisonous brood. Working class analysis is anathema to their likes.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Yeah because only WSWS are authentic socialist with their 200 or so members
Edited on Tue Oct-13-09 08:01 AM by HamdenRice
under corporate cult control -- as compared to Democratic Socialists of America, which you seem to think is fake.

Hey, I noticed that post over on another forum where someone confused Democratic Socialists of America (Cornell West, Noam Chomsky, Barbara Ehrenreich, Gloria Steinem, Ed Asner, Ron Dellums, Dolores Huerta, William W. Winpisinger) with the Social Democrats (generally close to Scoop Jackson back in the day, but now pretty much defunct).

That person retracted what they wrote saying s/he had confused the two. Was that you by any chance? Weren't you in that thread? Didn't you learn anything?

Btw, how are things going over at socialist independent in your sig line? I hear that the only active thread is some pompous windbag giving a line by line reading of Das Kapital. Or was that the other forum?
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Retraction

Yes, I did confuse the two, my apologies to Scoop Jackson and you.

As far as the DSA goes, are they calling for an end to capitalism? If not, what good are they? If so, what are they doing?

Yeah, we're reading Das Kapital, it is very good. The early chapters contain some of the most important stuff but can be tough sledding, it's good to have people talking about it, clarifying.

You seem to be keeping pretty close tabs on us, Hamden, what's up with that? Making a list, checking it twice?
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. So fake socialists are: "Cornell West, Noam Chomsky, Barbara Ehrenreich, Gloria Steinem, Ed Asner"
Edited on Tue Oct-13-09 11:20 AM by HamdenRice
and real socialists are: David North, aka David Green, plus main squeeze Heather, trying to get by on $26 million a year earned on equipment stolen from the Socialist Equality Party?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

That's your view? Because DSA members don't want to abolish all commercial enterprises and because they want to work with the Democratic Party?

Have you noticed that David and Heather are living high on the hog from the income on a capitalist enterprise?

Your position is also crazy, because socialism does not involve the abolition of capitalist enterprise. It involves democratic control of the "commanding heights" of the economy, plus cooperative enterprises working side by side with commercial ones, plus democratic control of some of the most important collective resources.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...





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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Ya know

I don't really give a shit about the SEP, Trots are not my cup of tea. However, that web site does consistently provide working class analysis of current affairs, the Trot sectarian crap is easy enough to filter.

And that is what you really object to, working class analysis, and is why you find it necessary to attack the messenger incessantly, because the facts defy you.

As per those illustrious socialists that you parade, they have written and done some good things, but deploring capitalism and calling for reform of capitalism ain't gonna get the job done. The abject behavior of many socialists in 1914 is a warning to us all, the collaboration of mainstream socialists parties in Europe as we speak, both show there ain't much in a name. Complete rejection of capitalism must be the starting point of agreement, anything less and sooner or later, they will own you.
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prostomulgus Donating Member (188 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 05:43 AM
Response to Original message
9. The statistics in the OP make it pretty obvious.
Institutional racism, pure and simple. As if we needed more proof that such existed.
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Bertha Venation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
18. Is that all?
What a cynic I have become since moving to the WDC area. :(
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
20. 22%!?
:wow: Institutional racism combined with classism will do that to any community I guess.
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
21. 4 out of 8 Illinois Governors incarcerated!
Safer to drop out than be governor of Illinois!

:rofl:
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
22. I blame violent video games and pornography
for keeping me up past my bedtime.
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LostInAnomie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-13-09 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
23. Strain Theory at work
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