The WH was "blindsided" by the In$urance Indu$try report!? Are you f*ing kidding?

[jmondine]

How could they NOT see this coming? Who do they think they're dealing with?

Dear White House, let me help you with my own prediction of what will happen next:

Those who have wealth and power will do EVERYTHING they can to stop others from taking it from them.

Everything. Every. Single. Time.

To not expect and prepare for it is to live in Fantasyland.

[Skittles]

1. LOL

you're surprised by THAT? Have you SEEN how this entire sorry episode has played out?

[flamingdem]

2. Keep an eye on Wallstreet

the banksters call the shots. They own stock.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

3. Maybe you should run for office there, Kreskin.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/10/12/2096574.aspx

[DJ13]

4. The President is a man of honor

But he fails to understand that those he makes deals with arent.

One of these days he'll take the gloves off........ I hope.

[Skittles]

56. come on

who could watch what has happened with the repuke party since Reagan and not fucking understand? WHO???

[roguevalley]

79. lie down with dogs, get up with fleas. my apologies to dogs

[niceypoo]

5. Perhaps NOW they will drop the bipartisan notion...

...of tiptoeing through the tulips with the GOP and their corporate masters??

[bluestateguy]

6. Source?

Then we can talk.

[jmondine]

18. I'm reacting to a Lawrence O'Donnell report on Countdown

Which, admittedly, was not sourced. But I just had to vent, as it was the only way to lift my jaw from the floor.

[JVS]

7. It's hard to keep your eye on the ball when you're too busy playing 5 dimensional chess

[FrenchieCat]

10. Well, perhaps that's exactly what is happening.....

I don't personally think the WH was actually surprised by this....
even if that is what they are saying.

You may believe that they are easily duped naive players in this game,
but fortunately for the entire country, I don't believe that...
and I'm guessing that we haven't come this far based on a naive gullible White House.
Remember that the Baucus bill is not the bill that will end up on the floor of the Senate,
but if it doesn't pass, we don't get nothing at all (due to the media heralding a loss for this bill
in committee will mean not a chance of a bill passing through the senate).

I think that yes....many underestimate this White House....
and that may be the way that the President wants it.

[Greyhound]

14. I think you have no idea what the real agenda from the Whitehouse is.

They're playing you and those like you, and you just go along like a hungry dog following the meat wagon.
:rofl:

[FrenchieCat]

21. Yeah....right. You have the real insight and my shit is just fairy dust!

That makes you what? Superior? Smarter? More intellectual?

Mmmm-K!

It is my simple hope that your comments make you feel big AND strong AND super smart too....
like smarter than everyone else out there, especially if they don't agree with
how you see things!

And you call yourself Progressive? Cause all I smell is pompous arrogance in what you've just said.

[Greyhound]

40. Mmmmm, meat...

I don't call myself anything but (for purposes of the tubez) Greyhound.

What I do have, however, is first-hand, up close and personal (familial), experience with the people you worship. The people you trust to lead and to decide your fate and the fate of your children.

I know you believe that I am simply attacking you, but I'm hoping (against hope) that after you get screwed a few times by these parasites you might consider that what you (thought, hoped, believed, were taught, whatever) is a lie. A lie constructed to make you accept that screwing as "the way it has to be" and to believe that the screwing was for a good cause, or was necessary for some greater good.

The truth is that Barack Obama could not possibly care less about you or yours, and this is not limited to Barack or any party (in fact, on a scale of shitheels, he is much less horrible than most of his peers), it is simply the way it really is. Not one of the people you most likely look to for leadership cares about any of the issues you face, your problems, or your opinions (unless you can either; raise a pile of cash for them or garner a fair amount of potentially embarrassing press).

He and Michelle are now set for life, no matter how bad your life gets, and that is what matters to him. One term or two is a minor detail. Just like Clinton, this is the last job he will ever have. He will be rich, an ex-President, and only 53 or 57 years old. You will be, well really, who cares, he won't ever see or hear about you.

[AllentownJake]

44. Ouch

but needed to be said

[FrenchieCat]

58. Even if it is a lie?

I see now, that the cynics are hardcore round here.

Good to know.

[Greyhound]

69. You honestly believe that the people (parasites) that matter care about you? n/t

[FrenchieCat]

86. I believe that some do, and that many don't.

You are the one who believes that none of them are worth a damn.....except I guess, Dennis.

That's fine.
That's your right.
Whether you need to insist that your view is gospel and try to make others feel less than because they differ in your take? I don't think so.

[Greyhound]

90. It may have escaped your notice, but Dennis is definitely not "people that matter".

He's been in Congress for what, 10 - 12 years, and he has a net worth of about $80K, about what it was when he became a Congressman. How many committees does he chair?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6762218&mesg_id=6762867">This reply is the last. Now, I've tried and what you take from it is up to you. I gotta say though, people like you have caused me to seriously question the decision I made those many years ago to be on your side.

For the record, I sincerely hope you are right, but history and lifetimes of experience indicate otherwise.

[FrenchieCat]

94. Sad that you think that one's net worth measures them......

As for you stating that it is people like me who make you question yourself,
please do not flatter me.....
I don't think there is anything that I have said to you that would make you
have to second guess your decisions about what you choose to believe in such a negative sense....

I have to suspect that whatever your misgivings are, they most likely have more to do with you,
thank anything I or those you choose to group with me have ever said today, or any day before.

I'm actually quite reasonable and calm....I'm just not a pushover who buys something
just because someone says it over and over again, even when they say it with accusatory conviction
or pompous intensity. Good debate (which is what I come here to have) is not based on the forcefulness of the delivery, as much as the reasonability of the argument.

What I have a problem with is the media and the message that they control
a whole lot more than I have a problem with any one individual, regardless of their party.

[FrenchieCat]

59. You will be proven wrong on this......

so till then...
(sounds like a tacit agreement with Mr. Green over at the smirking chimp, but not much more.)

[Touchdown]

61. Last time I heard "You will be proven wrong" The Rapture was supposed to happen.

:shrug: I'm Waiting!!!!!!!

[FrenchieCat]

67. I don't recall this conversation.

Can you help me with this?

I'm not a Monty Phython Fan....
I was never "Intellectual" enough
to enjoy those movies...
or perhaps, I was too busy struggling
to have a chance to "get" whatever in it I was supposed to get
that seemed so "profound".

[Touchdown]

72. Just an observation, that's all.

:hi:

[Bluenorthwest]

100. That is not Python

That is a photograph of the famous liberal playwright and actor Wallace Shawn in one of his better known roles in a film called 'The Princess Bride' a mainstream, far from intellectual comedy directed by Rob Reiner.
But the film you should go rent at once that has Mr Shawn in it is called 'My Dinner With Andre' directed by Louis Malle, the well known French director. It is a very good film and one you could benefit from greatly. Just a thought.

[jonnyblitz]

60. outstanding!

:applause: :applause:

[FrenchieCat]

64. Outstanding? Why?

If as Greyhound states...."He and Michelle are now set for life, no matter how bad your life gets, and that is what matters to him."....then why didn't Barack Obama simply go to work making boatful of money after graduating from Harvard law school? Did he plan to run and win the Presidency all along?

There is nothing in Obama's life that supports that him and his wife being set for life is all that he cares about.....other than poster's cynical words.

So why does poster making such a statement deserve applause?
That poster he pulled something out of his ass about what POTUS believes
is to now be cheered? Cynical is an understatement here.
It's actually quite disturbing but perhaps it is projection at work here.

I am not the sort of person that only cares about my own fate in life,
and perhaps that is why I don't believe that this was Obama's goal or intent all along.

[TicketyBoo]

102. Agreed.

If all Obama cared about was being "set for life," he was already there before he ran for President. His books already had made him wealthy enough to live comfortably for the rest of his life.

Why take on the huge headaches of the Presidency unless he wanted to try to fix what has been hugely mucked up?

I keep thinking and hoping that he was the right man at the right time, maybe God-given to bless this country once again.

I haven't felt this hopeful in a very long time. Things are rough, but hope keeps me going.

I pity Greyhound for his cynicism. If I felt that way, I don't know how I could go on.

[cherokeeprogressive]

121. "I keep thinking and hoping that he was... maybe God-given to bless this country once again."

You've got to be fucking kidding. Barack Obama was a gift from God? To bless the United States of America "once again"?

You asked why someone would take on the huge headaches of the presidency if he was already wealthy enough to live comfortably for the rest of his life?

Couldn't be ego, could it? Nah.

[FiveGoodMen]

124. I'd just like to echo post 121

You've got to be kidding to think ...

Well: A) That there's a god, B) That he's blessing America, and C) That Obama is the blessing

Hope all you want; that and a buck won't even get you coffee.

[TicketyBoo]

130. That's okay.

I don't drink coffee, anyway.

[dionysus]

111. he'll applaud anything trashing an obama supporter.

[BeHereNow]

62. And THAT is the truth.

:toast: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

As someone I respect very much once observed,
Americans need to see the world as it IS,
not how they imagine it to be.

But then that would require growing up,
(Americans aren't about to)
and ridding one's self of the magical thinking
that has gripped this population on a collective level of consciousness.

BHN

[FrenchieCat]

66. I think its a bunch of bullshit myself......

and it may apply to many, but not to all.
When folks start believing that everyone is on the take,
and no one gives a fuck, that kind of cynicism is actually harmful.
There are plenty of folks who do care, and aren't as poster describe,
and until I am proven wrong (and it will take more than 10 months for me),
I believe this President is one of them.

Now, I shall wait and see,
meanwhile, you all can congratulate each other
on being real "insightful" into the person that is
currently the President. I don't blame anyone for their cynicism...
I just don't want any part of it...because it has not been proven out,
and I always give folks the benefit of the doubt....cause that is what I would want
for myself.

[BeHereNow]

68. Yeah, and I believe in the tooth fairy. NOT.

And sorry sister, it has been proven to those of us who see the world as it IS.
What ever happened to your four star general worship anyway?
That was proven, now wasn't it.
Yay! Wes Clark, a man of military might was going to fix it,
wasn't that the magical thinking you were entertaining and defending back then?
Funny how ole Wes is not around anymore-
He served his purpose as a straw man, made a ton of money
and crept back into the wood work with the rest of the cock roaches.

BHN

[FrenchieCat]

71. The fact that you'd call my support "worship" just shows

that it must suck to be hating on me for no reason at all.

As for Wes Clark, the fact that I walked away from him quite some time ago,
only proves that it wasn't worship to begin with....

I still respect the man.....but I already have a husband, 25 year anniversary just celebrated on the 25th of September....but thank you for your concern about me personally.

I would ask how you are doing personally, but this is just a political forum,
and so I don't need to invest in that kind of "concern" over someone
who's only common denominator with me is that we both find ourselves on this board,
most likely because we care....and that's a good thing....but you don't need to care about me that much. :shrug:

[BeHereNow]

74. Congratulations on your Anniversary- Well done.

I don't hate you, but must point out that your thinking
that it is "personal" is exactly the quality that the man I quoted was referring to.
You were not the only one on DU worshipping Wes, the military corporatist.

Americans think everything is about them, PERSONALLY.
It's not, and as GreyHound pointed out, Obama, Clark, Bush and Cheney
and their ilk could give a SHIT about you or me.

That is the way the world REALLY is, as time will prove to you.
Sorry.
And again congrats on your Anniversary, that IS personally
directed at you. :thumbsup:

BHN

[FrenchieCat]

77. It was kind of personal...but that's ok.....

Perhaps in the future, it won't be.
and thank you for the congrats. :hi:

One of the things I have learned here at DU is that,
it is ok to hold a different view about a lot of things....
that's the appeal in being among progressives;
that no one has the corner market on good ideas,
and opinions....
however, when folks start referencing my posting as though it sums me up,
and make it appear dirty or wrong, when it isn't...simply a different viewpoint,
than it makes it less about politics, and more about the personal.

[The Wielding Truth]

80. I am with you.

[Greyhound]

82. It doesn't apply to all, you are an obvious exception as are most of the denizens

of DU. Hell, I'm one myself. If I were not, I would have gladly sold my soul, gone the family route, and today I would be "living the dream" just as my relatives are.

I would never be here, never talk to you, and never have a real worry in the world. The crash might have reduced my fortune to only a few million dollars, but I would be out buying up real assets for two or three cents on the dollar so that in 10 years I might be a billionaire. Or maybe I'd go into "public service" and really set myself up as so many have done before me (check out your own Senator's financial history since she went into "public service"). That is how the game works and believe me it does work. Only a genuine moron like shrub (who is even dumber than you imagine) can swim in these waters without making a vast fortune.

But I believe that they are wrong, that "regular" people matter, and that "we" (now they) should do better by them. The frustrating thing is that in trying to help people to understand how things are, and what is required to change them, I am met with reactions much like yours.

What is so hard for you to believe? Have you lived in a convent or some similarly cloistered environment your entire life? Have you not read, seen, and heard what has happened over the course of your life? Have you ever once seen a truly powerful person make any effort to make life better for another without any personal benefit to them (writing checks does not count, money is nothing at the level I'm talking about)?

Do you really believe that almost everybody on earth is a lazy, untalented, lout, and if not, how is it that so very few ever get anywhere? How many times do the parasites have to steal your future and kick your teeth in before you realize that they are parasites? Are you at all familiar with how Illinois politics work, and do you really believe that Barack Obama came up in that system without stepping on and screwing lots and lots of other people to get where he was?

[redqueen]

114. "that kind of cynicism is actually harmful"

Yep.

Why would anyone want to start splinter just nine months after getting a toehold?

I really wish lefties here would take a lesson from France. I really, really do.


And yes, the personal attacks... categorizing support as "worship"... kneejerking at each and every breathless M$M pronouncement... I will just be kind and call it simplistic thinking.

[Mimosa]

75. Greyhound, over 4 decades of observation, study and disappointments brought me to where you are

Frenchie, it may hurt a real idealist like you. You are much admired, respected and heeded. But Greyhound is correct about human nature. As much as like 'like' Barack Obama, he seems to have early on gotten the message. 7 or 8 days after Inauguration, Obama's face temporarily displayed what I can only describe as a stunned expression. He had been led to gaze into the abyss and informed what might be possible for him to do as president. Perhaps he also learned how financially precarious the situation is. Perhaps he also learned who's in charge. I'm speculating based on body language and an ability as a 'reader' of people.

He's a good man. But circumstances may be such that greatness will be beyond his reach. He has to settle for what is possible. I hope we can get affordable health care with no exclusions and firm controls upon the insurance crps greed and rapaciousness. I hope we can get a solid well-functioning and above all accessible public health option. Nothing I've seen so far has indicated that Obama has tried to sell healthcare reform to those who had been led to fear change. Nothing I've seen from Obama indicates he's really willing to fight for US. I see a compromiser.

He's not risking enough. He's timid. He's not convincing. And he's no FDR. FDR talked to the people.

[FrenchieCat]

78. That's your opinion and you are welcome to it.....

But it simply doesn't make it true.....just a truth that you perceive.
There is no crime in that, as long as you understand that you do not hold the corner market
in what is....because no one does, and you are no exception.

That's the beauty of being among progressives; real progressives, i.e., liberals,
would never attempt to make others believe that they hold the ultimate truth
in matters that are not attached to enough facts or evidence to make a clear case.

So it is fine that you thought you saw something on Obama's face and his body language
told you something too. However, this is not conclusive information that allows me
to change my view based on your feelings.

Sorry, but although I appreciate the conversation, and I understand that this is your view,
I will respect it, but I will not agree with it.

In many ways I was raised very much like Obama was,
and I came from a very similar story (White Mother, Black absent father, struggling in a
very not so ordinary way, but struggling nevertheless...and born around the same time)
...and what I can say to you is that I will trust my own experience as opposed to yours.
As we both know, that is my right,
and a reasonable view to have.

[Mimosa]

83. Frenchie, I hope YOU are right

I want to be mistaken. Not wrong, just mistaken.

I'd be happy to see Obama become the best president since FDR. Maybe you recall how strongly I supported him here (and offline) early, early on. I don't want to be disappointed or cynical.

[FrenchieCat]

85. We should all hope that I am right.......

because if I am wrong, then we are fucked.

Time will tell much more than any hour of speculation ever could....

So, till then! :hi:

[Greyhound]

96. It may well be timidity.

But I'm not really convinced, and it was his initial appointments and subsequent actions that make me doubt his motivation.

I just hope that things don't have to get as bad as they appear to be going before enough people wake up.

[cliffordu]

87. I'm having a difficult time understanding why you haven't

cut your own throat with a cynicism that deep.

Which of these familial connections told you what motivates Obama??

I would imagine they hurt you very deeply indeed.

How sad.

[FrenchieCat]

88. I'm just trying to figure out if Obama is cut throat selfish corporatist in it for himself.....

and has already stepped over quite a few bodies to get where he is by way of his Chicago political hardnuckle ties or if he is naive, gullible and inexperienced and simply too trusting of the Insurance industry. If you read through this thread, he appears to be both....
which is kind of like the right making him totalitarian dictator, and a liberal socialist all at the same time. Guess that folks pinned all of their hopes on this man, and now they are seeing every single one of their fears in him as well. Kinda of makes one go.....WTF?

[cliffordu]

91. Yep-

I find it very interesting that people cannot decide what Obama really is: IS he a corporate shill?? An inept doo-gooder? a calculating and cutthroat Chicago politician?????/\

I think Obama is playing this perfectly.

As long as he does not give the haters in the R party something solid to aim at, the CONgress has to actually DO THEIR FUCKING JOBS, without a presidential edict to blame when they do nothing.

If Congress drops the ball, they drop the ball on national television.......

The fucking press, of course, has to make shit up to fill the airwaves 24/7...Except MSN-BS who can just run prison reruns.

I get a kick out of the folks who are sooooo angry they didn't get the pony.

Too bad their arguments are so predictable and booring.

[Fire1]

116. I don't think he's as cut throat as Chicago politics would have

him. But I DO believe, as pointed out by somebody above, that he has stared into the abyss. I predicted before he was elected that if he became president he would be privy to things never realized before. I have ALWAYS believed what has been promoted by Cenk. MOST, if not ALL, members of Congress AND the senate are the BITCHES of CORPORATE AMERICA! THAT has become overwhelmingly obvious.

[Greyhound]

92. LOL!

I've only had to write "I(we) told you so" about 100 times since he took office, there are still many opportunities coming down the pike.

Most of my relatives are on the other team and they just love people like you, you give them so much ammunition to use against you while simultaneously making them more and more money.

10 years ago Warren Buffett makes the rounds of the talk shows (Promoting a book or something) and tells you flat out that there is a class war is being waged, that it is being waged by people like him, and that you are losing it because you won't fight back, and still you pretend it isn't happening even as your life gets steadily worse generation after generation.

Damn.
:crazy:

[cliffordu]

93. Lemme see.....

How do you know so much about my life and situation that you can predict what they are using against me?

My life is about the margins of this society, the addicts and the mentally ill, the homeless and the survivors of all of that.

I haven't felt sorry for anyone here for a long time, but you now have my complete and utter sympathy.

I really do feel sorry for you. I think you are lost inside your complete and overwhelming need to be RIGHT. And I

mean both correct, politically, and on the winning side of the argument.

Purity is a nice thing in fantasy and obtuse political discussions. In real life not so much.

Best of luck.

[Greyhound]

95. LOL!

Good luck to you.
:rofl:

[TicketyBoo]

103. Um, you do know

that Warren Buffett is a Democrat?

He's not at war with anyone. He's having a good time, rain or shine.

[Greyhound]

126. Then you should tell Warren because he's the one that spent a month telling

anyone with a TeeVee that the class war is, that it is being purposely waged, and that his class is winning because we refuse to fight it.

[TicketyBoo]

129. I have a TV

and I never heard him say that, but I don't doubt that it was so.

He was telling his fellow Dems to get with the program.

[Greyhound]

133. It was about 10 years ago and he was selling a book or something.

His point was that as long as we refuse to acknowledge what has always been, we will keep losing more and more.

[TicketyBoo]

134. Wikipedia has these quotes from Buffett

on class warfare.

It's class warfare, my class is winning, but they shouldn't be.
—CNN Interview, May 25 2005, in arguing the need to raise taxes on the rich.

There's class warfare, all right, but it's my class, the rich class, that's making war, and we're winning.
—New York Times, November 26, 2006.

And he's right, of course. The rich have nearly all of the money, and, therefore, nearly all of the power. And the scales tip ever further in that direction.

Buffett sees that if you squeeze the little guy too far, then the market for goods and services is diminished to the point of no returns. The economy does better when everyone has a fairer share of the pie. The greedy pigs on Wall Street are too blinded by their greed to see that, so keep on squeezing. They're bleeding people dry and are too busy counting their bonuses to realize that it can end — and nearly did. Maybe it should have. Equal opportunity suffering instead of it all coming at the expense of the working man. I can't help but think if things hadn't been salvaged, we would be even worse off than we are now, obscene bonuses notwithstanding.

[cliffordu]

109. How is your life not getting worse, along with the rest of us??

Are you immune from the predators? Rich? Living on a compound off the grid?

I'm glad you get to say "I told you so" a hunnert times, glad you get to be so overwhelmingly right, but tell me, what about your life makes you immune from the game fixers??

[dionysus]

112. the bitterness force field shields all my friend...

[cliffordu]

113. I'm thinking you're right. Exactly right.

[Greyhound]

127. Who said it isn't? Perhaps you cannot conceive of someone being motivated

by something other than personal gain.

[dionysus]

110. mmmmmm, bitter travelocity gnome fan lashing out...

[SammyWinstonJack]

118. Oh yeah!

:applause: :thumbsup:

[FiveGoodMen]

123. Sadly, you're right about that

[Greyhound]

128. It is sad. What's even more sad, IMO, is the childish refusal of so many people

to see/acknowledge what is before them.

"The Great Democratic Hope" appoints Goldman Sachs to the Treasury and BofA to The Fed, and the kids accept it because "he must know what he's doing because he is so much smarter than I am and would never do anything to hurt me", or worse, "He must be doing the right thing because he's on my team".

The examples go on, but there is such resistance to reality. They just have to believe that the parasites are "just like me but with more money", so that they don't have to consider the implications that truth brings.

[redqueen]

115. Same here.

There's no way they were blindsided by this. But by saying so, they make the industry look even worse.

It's not even fucking complicated. Jesus.

[WCGreen]

17. He is a Vulcan, after all...

It's on his passport...

[FrenchieCat]

8. Perhaps the WH's indignation is measured.......

Perhaps that is how the credibility of the Insurance company can be questioned by those who hold microphones.

If the Obama WH lashed back instead of acting "Oh so surprised", then we would have a war of words on our hands. Instead, we have the WH looking like it was taken advantage of at the 11th hour by a menacing, threatening villain. Don't know about you, but the reaction the WH is presenting is the right one in this case. There is not enough time to fight a war with those insurance assholes, but just enough time to discredit them.

[AllentownJake]

9. OFA

Back in June was planning Health Care fairs and petition drives. I told them they better be thinking attacking Insurance Companies and Protests of Insurance Companies and Republicans at their offices and Townhalls. The looked at me like I had 3 heads.

A month and half later they had the Tea Baggers screaming at them in Town Halls, and were shocked!

They do live in Fantasyland I'm afraid.

[FrenchieCat]

11. So you think this report will stop votes for the bill out of commitee?

cause I don't think so.

If anything, the report makes any Dem (in particular) who votes against the bill appear to be on the side of the Insurance companies. I don't believe that any Dem necessarily welcome that kind of light being shined on them.....in particular if they help kill this committee bill.

[AllentownJake]

12. I think that if they prepared for battle better back in June

The Public Option would never have been in question and the bill would have been out of committee in September. Now we'll get a Public Option with some sort of qualifier. They lost the debate for a while and needed to throw a hail mary. They are lucky that Joe Wilson yelled, it helped them more than the actual speech.

We'll see if they have learned any lessons when they go for the mediocre reforms on Wall Street.

[FrenchieCat]

15. What's your theory on this "coulda/woulda/shoulda Battled Better"?

Considering?

What would you have done as President that would have made everything
smoother and easier? please keep possible media reaction in your thoughts as you
share with us your scenario of being even more successful than those
who have brought us to a point where we have never yet been before.

Thanks.....

[AllentownJake]

19. That's crap

I told the OFA organizer that they were going to get their asses kicked over the summer if that was what their plan was. They patted me on the head and said we know what we are doing.

So July comes along, and as I predicted the Insurance Industry has put out their ads, misinformation, and released the Tea Baggers on democratic congressman (I expected them to be protesting outside, I didn't forsee them in the actual townhalls screaming).

Meanwhile the White House was telling progressive groups like Move On and Health Care Now not to dare go after any of the Blue Dogs or Conservadems in the Senate, that they would handle it.

They brought a spork to a gunfight and were shocked at the results.

[FrenchieCat]

22. Breaking news! Results aren't in yet.....

except to those who want to see failure in the horizon, because that would make them right....
and being right appears to be more important than any health care reform for some.

Save your premature I-told-ya-sos.....although you won't be needing them.

[AllentownJake]

24. I hope they succeed

However, they would have had a heck of an easier time about it, and would have been able to avoid having to use a Prime Time emergency Presidential Address if they would stop acting like such wimps.

[FrenchieCat]

31. Easy to speculate how things would have gone, hey?

They call that monday night quarterbacking right? That's when one can affirm what might have happened without providing too many details, and speak of it as what would have absolutely happened just by saying it with firmness over and over again.

It's a pretty good place to be in, as long as no one asks too many questions.....questions like how do you really know that what you are saying would have happened other than you thinking it would have? You see, if folks were that smart and had that much insight to know exactly what to do every step of the way, they would be President by now, and health care reform would almost be a done deal. Oh....wait....

[AllentownJake]

32. OFA is a disaster and a joke

Ask anyone in the party. That network of volunteers, most of them are gone. The one group that was organizing in my area was asked to call themselves something else because they were looking at local issues as well and the OFA folks didn't want confusion.

The leaders have all walked away to work on other things out of frustration of the top down approach, which was the opposite of the way they were treated during the campaign.

[FrenchieCat]

35. Please don't lash out too much. I don't want to get hurt in the process!

but look, you will be able to lash out as soon as you are proven correct, ok?
By then, your I-told-you-sos will have been earned and verified.

[AllentownJake]

36. I'm commenting on something real

A real mistake they made and all you can do is talk about "I told you so"

That grassroots network, it dried up.

I had 30 energetic people in the first OFA meeting I held in January. Today I'd be lucky to get 10 if the OFA people didn't frustrate me to the degree I won't work with them. It would be one thing if I was the only team leader with that story in my area.

They didn't even have the decency to show-up (the organizer) at the biggest democratic picnic of the summer. They were given a platform to recruit and they blew it totally off.

[FrenchieCat]

39. They'll be back

when they realize that electing the President wasn't the end of the game.

[AllentownJake]

41. Some of them aren't coming back Frenchie

Some of them, not coming back.

[riderinthestorm]

45. I'll back that up. I'm from the far west suburbs of Chicago

I've been one of Obama's biggest supporters since his early days.

I also say without equivocation that many won't be back. If he goes into Afghanistan with more troops, doesn't pass a strong public option, doesn't work hard towards ending DADT and DOMA, I'm guessing I won't have anyone left of my team in 2012.

[Fire1]

120. And EMPLOYMENT first and foremost. If jobs aren't

created and inverted corporations are not SHUT DOWN, everything else is moot.

[FrenchieCat]

46. We'll have to live with that, won't we?

Would those be the folks who took their ball and went home
at the first sign of things not going exactly as they had pre-ordered it?
If so, they probably weren't folks to greatly rely on anyways....
because this President never said this was going to be easy,
he certainly didn't say this was going to be single payer or even medicare for all,
and he certainly didn't say it would happen painlessly and/or quickly....
in fact, he even dared say that some things wouldn't get completely done in his first term.

Guess when he was talking those folks were out celebrating and didn't hear him,
or simply weren't listening.

So sounds like the folks you are referring to were never in it for the long haul....
considering they split quite early in the process.....
guess will have to wait them out for the next 3.3 years, and see if they come around
once they start getting what the pre-ordered or something there close to.

[AllentownJake]

50. You'll have to live with it

I'm not doing what I did last election next time around. I'm 30 and I have better things to do with my life than fight for the lesser of two evils like that. A canvass here, a canvass there maybe a phone bank every so often. If there is someone local I believe in I'll help launch them while they are still optimistic before the system corrupts them.

Geithner, Summers and Bernake. That was it for me as far as donating time or money. Sorry, I checked out. The President made his choice on who he stands with, and it wasn't me.

[FrenchieCat]

53. OK......

That sounds like that is it in a nutshell for you.
I respect the work you did....and I thank you for it...
and am sorry that you believe that politics is supposed to be that easy and that quick.

Although I'm one of the Newbies (since I have only been active since 2000),
I do have children, and I want a better world for them....and so, I'm not gonna stop,
and perhaps knowing that you are missing from our ranks, I'll have to fight twice as hard,
to make up the difference, and get my kids involved.....letting them know that some folks,
only want things as they want them.....and teach them how politics really works.
I'd rather have them prepared for the real hard lift,
rather than to see them disallusioned like you.

I'll talk to you later....
cause I've got letters to go and write.....
to the media; a force that I will always relentlessly fight,
because they are the one that get in the way
of how things could be.

[TicketyBoo]

104. Geithner was the one

that was hardest to swallow for me.

I still don't understand having a Secretary of the Treasury who wasn't smart enough (or honest enough, one or the other) to pay his own income taxes.

[donco6]

26. Does it never get old for you, Frenchie?

The endless shilling, shilling, shilling.

You really are superhuman.

[FrenchieCat]

29. You can call it shilling if that makes you happier and more fulfilled

with the life that you lead.
Cause....Ooh...put me in my place! Don't you feel like a towering beam of intellect now? :sarcasm:

only problem with your comment is that you'd be shillin' for the sorry ass losing side,
and that has got to be the worse, and you should know.

Thus far, since I made my determination that Obama would become President....back in 2007, I have been right about a whole lot of things that have been proven out. About you?

[donco6]

99. I voted for Obama and supported him from the beginning.

I just didn't superglue my lips to his ass.

[Skittles]

89. IGNORE is your friend

[Greyhound]

84. Once the results are in, it's too late. n/t

[Mimosa]

132. Insurance Companies and Protests of Insurance Companies

Allentown Jake, back in 1990 I was working to forward health care for all. I spoke with a sharp young manager in the insurance business. He laughed when I said we'd get health care reform, maybe even a national single payer health plan. He laughed and said 'we're using your premiums to make sure that will never happen.'

[Greyhound]

13. Not kidding you, just hoping you're stupid enough to believe this. n/t

:rofl:

Who was it that said, "Nobody could have predicted this"?

[Bonobo]

16. Who the hell said they were 'blindsided' besides you? nt

[donco6]

27. Here:

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/10/12/2096574.aspx

[Bonobo]

30. So how does "Nancy Ann DeParle" equate with the "White House"?

That is some serious conflation there.

Is everybody with a title the White House? How about the pastry chef?

[donco6]

101. Yeah, she's the chef.

So just never you mind your lil' head about this.

[JimWis]

20. Remember when the president made the big announcement

to the whole country how the insurance companies had stated their intention to cooperate with reform? I watched it and he seemed to make sure he announced it loudly, with all of them standing there, how they would cooperate. I couldn't help thinking that day - "hmmm - he's setting these guys up".

IMHO, I think I was right.

[FrenchieCat]

33. Only those who pay close attention would remember that.....

others would only have seen that moment as Obama sucking up.....
cause that works better with the scenario that they wish for;
that we have a President as dumb as the last one.
But for now, they can only wish.

[TicketyBoo]

105. I kinda thought so, too.

I hope so. I don't think he's as naive as they think he is. Chicago and all that.

I think he cares about people, and it's the insurance companies that are gonna get rolled, not the public.

Hope I'm right.

[girl gone mad]

23. The President is an optimist.

He surrounds himself with optimists.

Optimists tend to be absolutely terrible at at making long term predictions because they consistently overestimate their abilities to influence outcomes.

[Kablooie]

47. If he let's this drown his plan I will agree that he's just another Jimmy Carter.

A good man with good intentions but totally naive and ineffective.

Obama has to know that he's playing with some of the most devilishly evil mafioso alive today.

[Fire1]

122. I give Carter this much. He did not have the advantage of a

dual democratic majority in the house and senate. They cut Carter off at the knees and he couldn't get ANYTHING passed. President Obama has no excuse.

[spanone]

25. they still believe in fairy tales like 'bipartisanship'....there is N O N E

[riderinthestorm]

28. I'm not convinced they were blindsided, but I'm sure they can use this to their benefit

One thing the debate on health care reform has done is show the American people that there are significant flaws in the current system. Everything from recission to denial of care because of ridiculous "pre-existing" conditions like acne has now been made very, very public every day - Micheal Moore's Sicko made all these same points but M. Moore, beng M. Moore is so polarizing these same points weren't "heard" then.

I think they are now.

It will be interesting if the WH uses this report to shine their spotlight on the grotesque profits of the health care insurers. I believe this little factoid hasn't been highlighted nearly enough. The huge salaries and bonus's of the health care CEOs, the enormous profit margins obviously wrung out off the backs of those fighting claims daily etc. Get that info out there and it would be extremely damaging to these folks who are now claiming the insured are going to face dramatically higher rates.

Obama's WH could be persuasive here. And if they come out with the correct spin, they can gain tons of mileage off this report. If they are prepared tomorrow, to "fight", I'll be convinced they weren't blindsided.

If they flounder (which frankly, I believe they've been doing all summer on the issue), I'll be more persuaded they didn't see this coming.

[ProSense]

34. Can't be

The WH is naive.

[FrenchieCat]

38. and don't forget, gullible and just want to make kissy face with the Republics......

While here on the Internet, we've got the guerrila fighters with all of the answers to every single thing that could ever happen, and how to avoid every pitfall politics could ever put upon us. These folks are like brainiacs of proportions too large to be measured. I fall at their feet, because they are smarter than everyone else in the whole wide world.

Meanwhile, at the WH....bunch of dummies who could never amount to anything but fools who do everything wrong most of the time.

Interesting world we live in, ain't it?

[riderinthestorm]

43. I've never called the WH or Obama naive

I have been very vocal that I believe they should have started from the "strongest" negotiating point of single payer and worked their way "down". This comes from my experience as both an MBA from the U of Chicago and a professional horse trader for 25 years (heh, yup that part's also true).

I also believe the WH lost control of the debate this summer. The town hall events are the strongest evidence but there are myriad other indicators that support my position.

It would be the most generous to assign naivity to the bungled health care reform effort so far but I don't believe that. Frankly, I think money talks and Big Pharma and Big Healthco are very persuasive. Obama's had to walk a difficult tight rope - appeasing both them and us.

Honestly, I think he did try to stifle this latest maneuver by Big Healthco in his speech but they clearly have resorted to hard-ball. Ball's in Obama's court and frankly I do wonder what he does next. That's not encouraging that I am confused about what he's gonna do. It should be very, very clear at this point but it's not.

FWIW, I've supported Obama since his first days. I'm from the far west suburbs of Chicago and I really believe in him. He's not naive which is why I think I'm precisely within my boundaries to believe he wouldn't be the first Pres to be bought and sold by big corporate.

[FrenchieCat]

49. I don't think Prosense was saying that you thought that the WH was naive....

In fact, she most likely felt, as I did, that what you offered more substance
than some of the other comments.....in where folks were registering their thoughts
that President Obama is indeed naive and was double crossed and didn't realize it...
and they did...cause they are very smart.

And of course, the media is the beast to control, and that is a difficult job.
It is the media who gave a voice to those protestors day in day out.
Kinda of like they did with the Reverend Wright for like two months during the primaries....

But then, I remember seeing the 11th hour commercials about Reverend Wright for a few days
right up to general election day.....after McCain promising not to run them.....
and you know what? Barack Obama still won.

[ipaint]

37. The white house was blindsided by the popularity of the

public option which makes keeping their secret deals with ahip difficult. Rock meet hard place.


March 5th

AHIP Takes Part in President Obama's Health Care Forum on March 5th.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gTFzG7Kaa4

May 7th
AHIP President, CEO Says Health Insurance Industry Would Accept Stronger Federal Regulation, Stop Charging Women Higher Premiums Than Men


"Ignagni said insurance companies "accept the premise that the system is not working today and needs to be reformed." Therefore, the industry is calling for "a full-scale renovation and a complete overhaul of the existing regulatory mechanisms," Ignagni said (Politico, 5/6). She called on the government to overhaul regulations governing insurance markets nationwide and replace inconsistent elements in state regulations. Ignagni said specific changes to the industry's operations could expand health care coverage and hold insurance companies more accountable, thus negating the need for a public plan. She added that the insurance industry's proposed "wholesale change and complete overhaul" would mean that "o one falls through the cracks; no one is discriminated against because of pre-existing conditions; no one has to pay according to health status and there would not be gender differentiation"

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/149190.php

[FrenchieCat]

42. Ignagni is who? The President?

So because AHIP said something publicly back on May 7th,
this was the way it was going to be....
or most likely how she might have wished it?

Why is it that everything anyone says other than this President,
Bought and cherished like a treasure......?

[ipaint]

48. Actually I don't expect you to see a thing.

I posted both the video and the statement because others may find it interesting to see obama interacting with her at the staged and scripted town hall.

She basically is corporate scum of the lowest form and if it wasn't for the "nutty pajama clad left wing bloggers" keeping the pressure on high for a public option we would have already kissed it goodbye.

As is there are no guarantees. And ahip is going to hit as hard as possible because that's all the have left against all of us who want a strong public option.

[FrenchieCat]

51. Well, I never thought that getting what you want

didn't mean that you don't participate....
so I'm glad that many of us have kept up the pressure about the Public Option...
cause that is what we were supposed to do, if that is what we really wanted.
We didn't elect a ditactor, and I don't think Barack Obama ever believed he could
do any of what we want to do on his own. As for corporate scum vs. non corporate non scum,
all I know is that with her busy at the table, a discredited report coming out the day before the vote, ain't the worse thing that could have happened.

As for the nutty pajama clad left wing bloggers.....isn't that like the position of those folks who don't beat their wives and hubbies? After all, after the lowest form of Corporate scum, the people that some are most willing to believe, before this President, would be the unamed sources who's identity we can only guess at, without any confirmation beyond the pronouncement by a corporate media paid head on the General Electric Channel.

[ipaint]

73. Well maybe the white house should stop offering them up.

"Just this weekend, a "top gay Democrat close to Obama" was granted anonymity by Politico to dismiss administration critics on gay issues as "naive." Just six weeks ago, an equally cowardly "senior White House adviser" hiding behind anonymity told told The Washington Post that the only people who cared about the public option in health care were "the left of the left" -- those same fringe, irrational extremists. In June, an anonymous "friend of John Brennan's" told Jane Mayer in The New Yorker that the people who prevented Brennan's nomination as CIA Director (because of his support for some of the most radical Bush Terrorism policies) were nothing more than "a few Cheeto-eating people in the basement working in their underwear who write blogs." Last year, "Democrats on the Hill" anonymously dismissed opposition to telecom immunity and warrantless eavesdropping as nothing more than a fringe issue being exploited by Chris Dodd for his presidential campaign, and then anonymously warned Dodd to abandon his left-wing obstructionism if he wanted to resume good standing in the Democratic caucus. Can anyone miss the pattern?"

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FrenchieCat]

54. SPAM ALERT!

[BeHereNow]

55. 3...2...1... You are SO gone from this board.

Idiot.

BHN

[madville]

57. This is nothing, some study the insurance companies sanctioned, big deal

We'll get a great show when the insurance companies really take the gloves off, I hope the WH is up to it.

[subcomhd]

65. No kidding. Big damned deal. Who could possibly care?

nt

[Cobalt-60]

63. Pick the dirtiest insurance company

And dismember it in front of the others.
That's all these jokers understand.

[glitch]

106. That would be beautiful to behold. nt

[bvar22]

70. John Edwards (warts & all) had it right.

"If you invite them to the table, they (Health Insurance Industry) will eat all the food."--John Edwards

You must MAKE reform happen, not ask the Republicans for permission.

"Seeking bi-partisan consensus" was a disaster.
So was starting negotiations from a compormise position.



"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

[Mimosa]

76. YES he did. n/t

Why didn't Obama learn from him? Was it lack of humility? Did he get too many Clinton retreads in his inner circle?

[Greyhound]

97. Of course he did, he made his first career fighting these parasites.

What I don't understand is how/why his knowledge and advice are ignored.

When you pay somebody several hundred dollars an hour because they are among the very best at what they do, it seems to me that you would then listen to what they tell you.
:shrug:

[laughingliberal]

81. If they think this will beat PO, they best be prepared to bringt their lunch

This extortion attempt by the organized crime unit of AHIP will just make it that much more obvious we need a PO or a single payer system. It is going to make the legislators who cave to these thugs look really bad.

[snagglepuss]

98. K & R

[berni_mccoy]

107. No administration official should ever say they are blindsided, even if they are.

That point aside, yes, it's incredible that she was.

[tavalon]

108. Amen Brother Jason

[leftstreet]

117. K&R

[earth mom]

119. Weren't they also "blinded" by the financial crisis too?

:eyes:

Meanwhile most of us here on DU-with the exception of GD-P diehards-have "known" how fucked up everything is for a very very very long time.

[Quantess]

125. Oh, dear...

[Vidar]

131. A consequence of filling their ranks with collaborators?