I guess I'm not an Obama apologist cheerleader afterall

[Cant trust em]

So just to be clear, last year I worked as a field organizer for the Obama campaign. I quit my job working as a non-profit fundraiser in San Francisco to move out to Wisconsin to organize the voter outreach and GOTV efforts for a county that borders Michelle Bachman’s district. I worked 14 hours a day, 7 days a week in support of the President’s vision, the vision that has won him the Nobel Peace Prize.

I typically come on to this board to defend what the president is doing. He is a great leader and I swell with pride every time I see him speak. For the most part, I support his vision and the direction for the country. There are a couple of spots that I’d like to see improvement on, but in general he’s been great.

So, I write this because I feel pretty conflicted about the Peace Prize. I wrote this post (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6736093) earlier that was fairly well criticized, which I expected.

Now that I’m on the other side being critical of the president’s war policies, I’m seeing what more of what his detractors on this board are going through. It’s interesting that just because I have a criticism of the president, that it must mean that I hate him and don’t support him and should go back to Freeperville. It’s interesting to see how the rec/unrec feature works against my idea.

Reading and posting on DU everyday has gotten into my head at times. During George Bush’s tenure, I always felt like a radical leftist. Now that Obama is in office, I feel a lot more moderate. I used to wonder if that was because of Obama is a much better communicator than GWB, I’m more receptive to his moderate ideas. So where does that leave my political beliefs? The last few months have been very self-reflective for me. I’ve been going through a lot of values assessments to see where I stand on issues. Now that I’m seeing my own ambivalence about this prestigious award, I’m more convinced that I’m on the right path. I largely agree with Obama because he largely agrees with me and my world view. When he does something I don’t approve of, I’m able to differentiate that. Today’s news just affirms that for me.

[Captain Hilts]

1. My roommate organized bus trips to VA for Obama and thinks the award is premature.

We're not haters.

I have an Obama sign in my window.

[ProSense]

7. People believe a lot of things when they don't have the full facts

There is nothing unusual about Obama receiving this award.

[DevonRex]

12. I like "Many stupid people believe many stupid things." Puts 'em

right where they should be, with the Other stupid people.

[Captain Hilts]

29. Gorbachev unilaterally ended a 40 year war. Hey, my phd is in Russian politics,

And foreign affairs. Best argue with me about something else.

[Captain Hilts]

60. By the way. Gorby had been in office FOUR years when he got his Nobel. nt

[hay rick]

17. What's not premature is recognition of

the fact that Obama is not Bush/Cheney. The Nobel is obviously premature in terms of his diplomatic accomplishments. I view this Prize as a loud exhaled sigh of relief that the American unilateralists were hooked off the world stage.

I believe the mainstream media understands and resents this context. They enabled and coddled Bush/Cheney for 8 years and now don't like to be reminded of their complicity.

[Captain Hilts]

45. No doubt the world is as relieved about that as we are. nt

[AllentownJake]

30. I called another Team Leader

who worked just as harder for him to win as I did. When I said he one the prize. She didn't know yet and she said "For what, and isn't this a little premature."

Thinking this is premature is not a feeling that just the loony left has.

[Captain Hilts]

44. Newshour on PBS had a really good discussion about it with Zbig Brezenski. nt

[dionysus]

2. but, there's a world of difference between your posts and the "HE'S AN EVIL WARMONGER!!11" crap.

[Captain Hilts]

46. That shit's really aggravating. He's NOT Bush II. Ugh! nt

[dionysus]

47. correctamundo

:thumbsup:
he dissappoints me too in ways but i don't feel the need to post on it here because its done ad nauseum.

[Ms. Toad]

57. Unfortunately, there's not a lot of difference in the reaction

to such posts here, though.

DU is increasingly a black and white discussion board (in the film, not racial sense) - which is sad. Until recently I associated simplistic thinking with political conservatives, and was more used to complex stimulating discussions in full color among my political peers.

All too often, and on far too many issues, DU is starkly split into two camps, with no shades of grey (let alone the full range of color) between them: Obama, vaccination, abortion... Make a thoughtful post suggesting anything other than complete unity with one side, and the side you are closest to claims you and the other side tars and feathers you, and discussion vanishes.

It sad, and I am growing very tired of not being able to have adult discussions here.

[Tigress DEM]

58. Too bad we can't "rec" a reply within a post. I think this is so SPOT on, I'd rec it if I could.

:hi:

[tridim]

3. Obama was awarded the prize, he didn't award it to himself.

In the opinion of the Nobel committee he deserved it. That's really all that matters.

[csziggy]

35. +1

[DainBramaged]

56. +2

[Tigress DEM]

59. ROFL - man with 1 brain cell king of the GOP. THAT made my day.

[DainBramaged]

67. Excuse me............

:eyes:

[redqueen]

4. Well at least no one told you you had blood on your hands.

Or that you're an accomplice/apologist of the war machine.

Were you ever called a cheerleader? Told to put down your pom poms?

[Cant trust em]

23. I've never been called those things in a response to one of my posts

but I've seen it happen to others.

[bvar22]

5. Thought provoking.

I'm an "Obama Hater" according to some on DU.
I am a harsh and vocal critic of his "Centrist" administration and Pro-Corporate Policies.

Today, I AM congratulating him and his family on being awarded the Nobel Prize.
That in no way is an endorsement of escalating the WARS or INCREASING Military Spending.

A Democratic President was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.
That is a GOOD thing.
To me, it is a NON-Issue.

[Hello_Kitty]

6. Thank you.

He did not ask for the prize and returning it would be an insult.

Can people stop hyperanalyzing everything and just be happy for once?

[Fire1]

11. Class at it's best. n/t

[merh]

8. What most on the left forget

What most "progressives" seem to overlook is the simple fact that Obama is the president of all the USA, he works for all citizens.

I would think it would be easy to say "this is how I feel and that is all there is to it", but that doesn't work in our system of government.

Do I wish we would withdraw our troops from both fronts? Yes, you better believe it.

Do I worry that there will be a draft that will mean my young relatives will have to serve? Yes, that scares the hell out of me.

Do I think the Justice Department needs to do more about restoring our nation to a nation of laws? You don't know how this eats at me daily.

But, for all of my concerns, for all of my wants and dreams and hopes for peace I know that life is not as simple as I would like it to be.

Eight years of destruction and abuse cannot be corrected in months or even in a year or two. It will take time and as long as there is an effort to make things better for all citizens, to improve our relations with the rest of the world and to restore our nation to the greatness it once knew, then I will keep supporting the man in charge. He is better than what we had and he is trying his best not out of a sense of self but out of a sense of what is needed in this world and for all.

[Sukie]

14. Wonderfully put! Thanks so much for your post.

Obama is the President of the American people, both left, right and center. He has moved in a very thoughtful and disciplined manner, which not only angers those on the right, but those on the far left too. I still believe there is not another person on this planet who could do a better job, given what he is up against.

[merh]

50. I agree with you. I don't think there is another who could or would

work so hard to maintain the balance he has been maintaining.

I post on a mixed board that has righties who view him as a socialist. Then I post here and I read posts from those who doesn't believe he is left enough or who think he is too moderate.

The truth lies in the middle and since he doesn't make either the left or the right happy at all times, he must be doing something right for all of us.

BTW, a belated welcome to DU. :hi:

[Dr Fate]

64. I love it when we lump people who want health care reform NOW with "the far right"

Sure- "the far left" is just like the far right- yep- uh huh!

Just look at how CRAZY all those Helathcacre advocates AND Glen Beck types are- yep- just flip sides of the same coin- no doubt about it!

One side wants healthcacre for all, and the other wants people to die, and carries Hitler signs. Both sides are clearly nuts.

Obama pisses them both off, so he MUST be doing something right!


The "3rd Way" is clearly our only alternative!

;)

But seriously- being in the "center" for the sake of politics doesnt mean it's correct or the best thing for the country , and being "far left" does not mean that one is not actually helping most Americans.

[LWolf]

39. I don't think you've got that right.

First of all, the left and "progressives" are not synonymous. Please remember that the DLC think tank is the "Progressive Policy Institute." The term "progressive" covers a very broad range of people and positions.

Secondly, most of the left isn't "overlooking the simple fact that Obama is the president of all the USA."

We are recognizing that he is not now, and may not ever, work for the left wing of his own party or of the nation. He was working to distance himself from us early on in the primaries. Some of us recognized it then. Others began to see the light when he began making appointments after the GE.

And that left wing is part of "all citizens."

[merh]

49. It depends on who you are talking to at the time as to whether the

term "progressive" is a good or bad thing. The same can be said about the term "liberal" and the term "the left".

For some, the true left are socialists. For some, all liberals must be socialists. And on and on the reasoning goes depending on who you are having the discussion with at the time.

I don't know how you can say "the left wing is part of all citizens". The left wing is a portion of the citizens of the USA.

[LWolf]

54. Semantics.

You worded it better than I, but the meaning is the same.

And you are correct about the perception of ANY terms. I began using "left" to define myself because "progressive" and "liberal" were too broad.

Really, it should be how you define yourself, not how others define you, that counts. In other words, the "left" should decide what constitutes being "left," not those who are not "left."

The reality is, though, that all labels are based on the perspective of those using them and easily manipulated.

[merh]

55. I agree with you.

I used to post only at DU and then a friend invited me to join a mixed board.

Though DU generally allows me the access to the links of some of the most unbiased news sources, it is not as informative as the other board because the discussion here offers a limited perspective.

On the mixed board, for the most part, actual debate is had and one has to be able to back up their position with facts.

You often get to glance into the heart of the beasts, to see what they are thinking and why they hold the opinions they hold.

The righties on the mixed board view Obama as a socialist. The vast majority of posters here do not think that Obama is liberal enough.

The truth lies somewhere in between.

[Dr Fate]

62. If I'm a "progressive", does that make you a "centrist"??

Fun with quote marks!!!!

No no, I'm being "serious" here!

[merh]

66. I have no doubt that you think you are clever.

I doubt you are a progressive.

[Hissyspit]

9. Awards are political and subjective.

Always thus.

Having said that, people who are questioning the award as inappropriate and unearned seem not to fully understand the history of the award and the Committee's conventional understanding of its purpose to affect change where peace is concerned. While, people who are attacking those people for not jumping on the celebration bandstand are downplaying or failing to understand the concerns of a powerful symbol possibly being used to ironically enable the violent American status quo. The prize means absolutely nothing to an Afghani whose head was just blown off by a NATO missile.

Whether the committee's intended effect in awarding this prize bears more of the fruit they desire than what has been borne already remains to be seen. But they knew that when they made the award. They made what they considered the best bet.

It's a powerful SYMBOL, but it is a political and subjective symbol.

[thunder rising]

10. "When he does something I don’t approve of"? you do *get* that he did not DO this, right?

I'm quite sure that his schedule included an early morning congratulations statement to whoever won the award. I'm also quite sure that his speech writers were scrambling to put together a speech for the acceptance.

When he stated that this was not the way he expected to wake up this morning, I believe that.

I've convinced myself that the Nobel committee made the award to break through our "librul" media with the message that the world is watching us and hopeful.

[DevonRex]

13. Hear hear! We are without hope if all we hear is the "lubrul" media and the DU naysayers.

[Cant trust em]

18. I mean a policy that he's enacted. nt

[Journeyman]

15. I received similar criticism when I congratulated Obama on winning the Prize. . .

but expressed my personal belief the Prize had lost all luster when it was awarded in 1973 to Henry Kissinger, a person I believed then and still hold today is a war criminal.

Because I did not share another's opinion on the quality of the award, I was obviously "just like the Repukes, Freepers, Islamic extremists, etc."

[DevonRex]

16. When you minimize teh accomplishment of the first black President

your motives are suspect.

[Journeyman]

19. Had I minimized his accomplishment, that might hold true. . .

If anything, I diminished the raison d'etre of the Norwegian Nobel Institute and its selection committee, the composition of which doesn't interest me in the least.

Though I do understand your point, DevonRex.

[redqueen]

21. .

[DevonRex]

27. Thank you. It's just that we've seen so much of it, the minimizing, I mean.

Sometimes I could just spit.

:hi:

[Cant trust em]

20. So I'm a racist now?

Maybe that's not where you're going with this, but I don't think it would be too much of a leap for me to get that out of your post.

[redqueen]

22. Devon was not responding to the OP. (nt)

...

[Cant trust em]

24. Well, I indirectly questioned the accomplishments in my previous post

so it's probably linked to what I said in the other thread.

Who knows, I'm a little on edge today.

[DevonRex]

26. Wasn't responding to you at all. Not at all. nt

[DatManFromNawlins]

69. When you exalt the accomplishments of a President for being black

Your motives are just as suspect.

[Curtland1015]

25. Boo effing hoo. You think the same doesn't happen all the time to those that defend the President?

When one of us defends the President, we get torn apart (then usually complain about people disagreeing).

When one of us bashes the President, we get torn apart (then complain about people disagreeing).

It's the God damn internet. There are always going to be people with dissenting opinions that will speak up loudly. I wish people (not attacking the OP, but people on this site in general) would stop acting like a victim.

[BlooInBloo]

37. I like the duplicitous "calls to civility" best, myself.

:rofl:

[AllentownJake]

28. Welcome to the club

I was a volunteer team leader for the PA Primary and General Election and gave him over $1000. $500 of that while he was battling the current Sec. of State. I get called all kinds of shit when I disagree with economic policy. It's fun being bashed by people you know, did a lot less than you did to help get him elected. The best is when someone will tell you, you never liked him anyway.

I think he was on the path to a Peace Prize for the leadership he took in the world, disagree slightly with Afghanistan but he ran on it that way. It was premature.

[Cant trust em]

32. You used to be Jake3463 or something, right? nt

[AllentownJake]

34. Yep

[Cant trust em]

40. I remember talking to you back then.

There's probably a small minority of us who actually did something for the campaign.

Thanks for keeping it real.

[hfojvt]

31. what county in Wisconsin?

My parents live in Dunn county.

[Cant trust em]

43. St. Croix.

One of the few counties that didn't turn blue in Wisconsin. Still pisses me off to see that county electoral map.

Funny story about the Dunn County Dems. At the county fair last year they needed some extra Obama bumper stickers. They bought some from us that we couldn't sell. They were pretty though. They were the rainbow pride ones, but they didn't know that. I hope they sold well in Dunn.

[Arkana]

33. That's fine. I also was a bit confused when I heard about it too.

But when I read the Nobel committee's reasoning it became a bit clearer.

They didn't give it to him for things he'd already done--they gave it to him for the things he wants to do and the manner in which he plans to do them.

That's why I didn't post a thread immediately shitting down his throat.

[LWolf]

36. Here's something interesting:

When I came to DU late in 2002, I considered myself a moderate. DU taught me that I'm the "loony left." It's hard to believe that I FELT more moderate than many here in late '02 and early '03, considering where I am relative to the rest of the board now. Now I am one of the left that is regularly derided and attacked, and at least a couple of times a week someone suggests that those who are as far left as I am would be better off "somewhere else."

The interesting thing? I hold the same political positions I did when I got here. I haven't shifted at all.

[redqueen]

38. Didn't you work on the Kucinich campaign in 03 and 04?

I thought I remembered that we were both Kucitizens... back when the Kucinich and Dean supporters were at each other's throats half the time.

Didn't seem to me like the Kucinich supporters were moderate than most of the board at that time, anyway.

[LWolf]

41. Yes, I did.

It actually never occurred to me, until DU taught me differently, that I wasn't "moderate."

I just always assumed the best of people, and assumed that any reasonable person would want the best for all people. That's why I backed DK; I thought he was best on the issues, that his positions would be best for the most people.

I still do, for that matter.

One of the things I learned in the '03/04 campaign is that I'm not a moderate. I'm an "idealist." And idealists are to be derided and discounted.

I'm still an idealist. A DEFIANT idealist, and a leftist to boot. I just didn't know it until I got to DU.

[Cant trust em]

42. DU has taught me how meaningless our little labels are. nt

[Dr Fate]

65. I was called "far left" simply because I wanted DEMS to go after Bush.

And b/c I opposed a war based on lies- and expected Democrats to agree with me on that.

LOL! I was a KERRY supporter, and then an Obama supporter.

To "centrists"- anyone who wants Democrats to act like Democrats are to be called "far left."

These types are essentially lazy and have no real values.

It's easier for them to just attack true believers than to actually fight for something.

That's why certain DEMS are more comfortable attacking "the far left" than siding with them even when they are right- it's just EASIER and it takes no courage.

Just look at the Bush years- the average DLCer attacked "the loony, far left" more than they ever even DREAMED of even HINTING at going after Bush himself.

Same as it ever was- just replace "Bush" with "Health Insurance Industry."

[LWolf]

70. You are correct. Sadly. nt

[Malikshah]

48. Step back from keyboard. Reflect. Self-awareness mixed with empathy is a good thing on the DU

It appears there is a lot of kneejerk posting going on with little if any thought. Quickfire responses and emotional typing run amock.

Count to ten. Breathe. In the end, it is too much sturm und drang that results in people looking sheepish.

[Cant trust em]

53. I'm a little confused. Weren't you telling me on another thread to own my shit? nt

[Malikshah]

61. Not you specifically, but those who do the whole "I'm sorry" schtick -- and

my post here follows suit. Empathy and self awareness are all part of the path to owning one's own shit.

As this point has been lost already, I'm not going to pursue the argument.

[baldguy]

51. Proof that idiocy isn't exclusive to the RW.

It is allowable for Obama to be criticized - without the critic being crucified in the process. THAT"S WHAT THE REPUBLICANS DO.

Only some people can't (or more likely won't) distinguish between the critics and the real haters - those that would ban bacon because Obama wants a BLT sandwich.

[Cant trust em]

52. As much as support President Obama, I would throw him right under the bus if he took away my bacon.

[Dr Fate]

63. Never forget that DU on it's own is a HOBBY. Try to have fun with it.

Arguing with people that you basically agree with can be just as fun and informative as arguing with people with people that you disagree with 100%.

Until about 2 weeks ago, I've basically held back on being critical of Obama as well. Lately I've started to pipe up and express the *opinion* that Obama might not be fighting for a STRONG public option as much as he should be.

Oh, horrors! The Democrat has a contrary opinion! Oh horrors! The Democrat thinks/predicts that every now and then, elected Democrats make strategic mistakes!

I also had some fun "disagreeing" with people who were attacking a political cartoonist who was critical of Obama- Oh Horrors! The cartoon people are comming to GET us!!!

Oh Horrors- that "old bitch" Helen Thomas doesnt trust spin miester press spokesmen!

LOL!

All I can say is: Have fun with it- use these disagreements to sharpen your debate skills or maybe even to learn something new.

Just be sure that you stick to your guns and the facts are on your side, and you never have too much to worry about.

Hopes this helps good buddy!

[Cant trust em]

68. It's not about sticking to my guns, but finding out what those guns are.

Obama's presidency has given me the opportunity to find out what my values really are.

I'm going to be out of town for a few weeks, but let's hang out when I get back. I'll give you a buzz.