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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 11:51 AM
Original message
Citigroup's Shocking 'Plutonomy' Reports
Edited on Sun Oct-04-09 11:52 AM by kpete
Michael Moore highlights a confidential report that Citigroup initially circulated only to it's wealthiest customers. Those reports, since leaked, plainly discuss the power of the Plutonomy in America, and how it would only strengthen, as long as the "the rest us" (the non-plutonics) could be kept in the dark about the Plutonomy existence, its role, and its over-arching control in the American Economy.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/6674234/Citigroup-Oct-16-2005...

In a report called "The Plutonomy Symposium Rising Tides Lifting Yachts," Ajay Kapur, Citigroup's global strategist, says the balance sheets of the rich are "in great shape, and will get much better," which is why he recommends going out and buying stocks of companies that cater to that very select market.

Spending by the uber-rich overwhelms that of the average consumer and helps explain why the U.S. economy has continued to do well and the U.S. dollar hasn't collapsed even in the face of the current federal budget deficit, a negative savings rate, global imbalances and high energy prices, he says. The United States is one of the plutonomy countries countries whose economies are powered by a relatively small number of rich people.

- Angela Barnes, "Want wealth? Invest in the uber-rich," The Globe and Mail, October 2, 2006




Citigroup Oct 16, 2005 Plutonomy Report Part 1
http://www.scribd.com/doc/6674234/Citigroup-Oct-16-2005...

- The World is dividing into two blocs - the Plutonomy and the rest.

The U.S., UK, and Canada are the key Plutonomies - economies powered by the wealthy.
Continental Europe (ex-Italy) and Japan are in the egalitarian bloc.
- Equity risk premium embedded in "global imbalances" are unwarranted.

In plutonomies the rich absorb a disproportionate chunk of the economy and have a massive impact on reported aggregate numbers like savings rates, current account deficits, consumption levels, etc.

This imbalance in inequality expresses itself in the standard scary "global imbalances". We worry less.



Citigroup Plutonomy Report Part 2
Mar 5 2006
http://www.scribd.com/doc/6674234/Citigroup-Oct-16-2005...

RISKS -- WHAT COULD GO WRONG?

Our whole plutonomy thesis is based on the idea that the rich will keep getting richer.
This thesis is not without its risks. For example, a policy error leading to asset deflation, would likely damage plutonomy. Furthermore, the rising wealth gap between the rich and poor will probably at some point lead to a political backlash. Whilst the rich are getting a greater share of the wealth, and the poor a lesser share, political enfrachisement remains as was -- one person, one vote (in the plutonomies). At some point it is likely that labor will fight back against the rising profit share of the rich and there will be a political backlash against the rising wealth of the rich. This could be felt through higher taxation on the rich (or indirectly though higher corporate taxes/regulation) or through trying to protect indigenous (home-grow)] laborers, in a push-back on globalization -- either anti-mmigration, or protectionism. We dont see this happening yet, though there are signs of rising political tensions. However we are keeping a close eye on developments.


more:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/10/4/789523/-Cit...
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Generic Other Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
1. Even the rich are surprised we don't fight back!!
"At some point it is likely that labor will fight back against the rising profit share of the rich and there will be a political backlash against the rising wealth of the rich."

When the fuck is that point coming????
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. When they feel they have nothing left to lose.
I don't know when that point will be.




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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
32. Revolution
I heard just the other day that Pelosi was talking about when
the people would take up arms.  I have been talking about it
for at least ten years.  I hear all the time that the average
person is getting sick of the way things are.  It is just a
question of time when people will fight back.  Non-violent or
violent I do not know.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
29. Very soon, when the Middle Class is thrown into poverty
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harmonicon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #29
41. you think that a middle class exists?
That's adorable. What would middle class be? 10 million in the bank? In the US now you're either mega-fucking rich or you're counting on monthly income to get by (or only have a few months, maybe a year or two, of savings should you not be able to work). There is almost no middle class anymore.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #41
66. McCain set the boundary at 5 million/yr.
Guess he had more insight than we gave him credit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mP-0pedQeGw
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
31. Cause they scare people with all the crazy shit we are hearing on a
daily basis...
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jimlup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
48. We do have a simple rebelion option ... all that is required is SOLIDARITY
If we all STOPPED PAYING OUR CREDIT CARDS they would sink in couple of months. We would just need SOLIDARITY to protect ourselves against their threats. If we stood in SOLIDARITY they would have no choice but to change their game or GO DOWN. We would need to figure ahead of time what the end game would be or otherwise we would risk being bought off.

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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #48
65. Has there ever been a reasonable rebellion?
I think passion is what gets everyone there, and without a strong leader, who "sells" the end game, then it's just bubbling anger.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #48
87. You make a good point...
If we all STOPPED PAYING OUR CREDIT CARDS they would sink in couple of months...

What if? It seems the coveted "credit score" is becoming less and less valuable, what with the lenders who've stopped lending. I mean, why pay on time to keep a "good credit score" when you can't get additional credit or loans?

Right now, I've got a leaky water heater that desperately needs replacing, but can't afford it right now and I don't have the credit to "put it on plastic."

I think back to my senior year in high school (almost 40 years ago): my stepfather brought home about $200 a week and that was enough to buy a house for a family of four on a corner lot in southern California, two cars, and food and clothing. We weren't rich by any means, but we sure as hell didn't have a household of four people with two wage earners and a leaky water heater...
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LiberalAndProud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #87
115. RE: "Right now, I've got a leaky water heater "
I've got a 50gal GAS water heater gone begging. Could you use it?
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #1
70. Never, and they know it
the average American is too busy making ends meet and escaping from reality with mindless TV and video games. The won't ever take the time to look up and notice what's being done to them, and by whom.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 06:38 AM
Response to Reply #70
81. Can we please lay off the "watching TV" theme for once? It's not like DU doesn't have TV threads.
Edited on Mon Oct-05-09 06:40 AM by WinkyDink
Yeah, yeah, American Idol, blah, blah.

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MorningGlow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #81
91. It is a valid point, however
Bread and circuses by any other name.

Welcome to the decline of the Roman Empire, the sequel.
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riverbendviewgal Donating Member (377 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 06:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
78. Howard Zinn wrote of this
I read his "People's History of the United States". He does explain how the rich use the middle class as a buffer between the poor and them. He also goes on to show all the events in the history of the US history and the ones we mostly are not aware of and how the rich have engineered them.


you can find him here.
http://howardzinn.org/default /

This is a good OP. and very timely. It is time to be aware of what they are doing and what can be done to correct this.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #78
95. "the rich use the middle class as a buffer between the poor and them."
This has been going on for centuries. It's truly sad how few people are aware of history.
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #1
88. Even the rich can't believe their propaganda has worked this good for this long.
Keeping the majority willfully ignorant and in compliance.
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mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. Disturbing on so many levels, particularly
Edited on Sun Oct-04-09 12:01 PM by mix
the fact that Citigroup's applied theory of plutonomy is grounded deeply in historical and socio-economic reality, namely the rise of neoliberalism in the 1980s and present class disparities worse than the First Gilded Age.
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 05:15 AM
Response to Reply #2
75. It's simply BS.
First, these are the same idiots who brought us Milton Friedman, "free" markets, trickle down, Raygun, Voodoo, supply side, neoliberal economics. And you see where that has taken us don't you? A total collapse of the financial system only to be bailed out by that middle class they wish to destroy.

If Not for all us middle class, all those rich people would be holding nothing in their stock portfolios. It was this middle class, that they so despise, that paid the taxes to bail out the idiots who bet America's future. If not for us, there would be no tax dollars to funnel to Wall Street.

Second, the uber wealthy cannot ever be a large enough market to equal the American middle class market of 2001. Do they really believe it was the uber wealthy who made Wal-Mart so successful?? Do they really believe that China is going to make enough profit simply by selling their crap to a handful of the uber wealthy idiots? This is absolutely ridiculous.

This memo sounds to me like a rationalization of a serious problem they know they have created. They see the financial collapse of the country thanks to what they have done. So, to keep their uber wealthy idiots from realizing that the end results is a total destruction and ruin of America, they are trying to sell those uber rich, the only ones who have money enough to buy their financial products, on the idea that they don't need the American middle class anymore.

They are trying to sell the idea that despite the collapse of most American markets, manufacturing and production (which they caused and continue to destroy) that the uber wealthy can simply sell to each other and continue to make money. Sounds an awful lot like the service economy America was suppose to become after all the middle class jobs were destroyed.

Right now, and for the past 30 years, America has been functioning like a plutocracy. Anyone who doesn't see it is just plain blind. But the uber wealthy need us much, much more than we need them. Without us paying taxes and buying crap, there would be no money for them to take.

I'm surprised the middle class has not revolted yet too.

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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 07:00 AM
Response to Reply #75
82. Fasttense brings up some vital points...
...and remember the date on those: October 2005, not only before the crash but back when Wall Street was in full "sell (and sell and sell) bets on repackaged crap" mode. It's a sales pitch far more than an analysis.

The terminology of the pitch, though, is more telling than the pitch itself. Because it's a pitch directly to the "if we're all rats on a sinking ship, be the top rat" mentality.
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #75
86. I think I can tell you why. Sadly.
It is because, for some reason, many Americans who are struggling want to believe that THEY will someday be rich and of course, THEN they wouldn't want taxes to take it away.

It is a pathetic way of thinking, of course, but I cannot tell you how many people really believe this. They ally themselves with rich white people because they see it as glamorous and fun. Being a minority and poor is to be looked down upon, and most of these white Americans don't want to be in the same boat with "them."

I've tried arguing with these people. I've told them that, since I've raised money from some very rich people, I can assure them that the rich don't want them in their "club" and will do anything to keep them out and keep all the money for themselves and their children. But the "wannabee" hold on to the illusion and the RWingers keep stoking the fires of prejudice and fear.

Sad, but true...
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #75
108. 6.7 billion people on the planet, 300 million Americans
These rich people can find their 'middle class taxpayers' just about anywhere
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
3. An Excellent Analysis, Ma'am, Reminiscent Of Herr Kautsky Describing Imperial Rome
An economic order driven principally by conspicuous consumption at the pinnacle cannot provide decent livings for the mass of the people, and is absolutely incompatible with even the pretense of rule through democratic institutions.
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mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Such was France's economy structured from Louis XIV to the Third Republic.
The results were greater class antagonisms and social unrest.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Indeed, Sir, the Pattern Is A Common Enough One
Edited on Sun Oct-04-09 12:39 PM by The Magistrate
And the outcome is always tyranny and revolution, in no particular order....
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #6
71. Perhaps that is why they belittle the Arts & Science education
in favor of the vocational.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
33. It is the destruction of Republican Rome's middle class of free farmers that destroyed the Republic.
The spread of the Latifundia (slave-worked cash-crop plantations) turned formerly middle-class farmers into an urban proletariat (a term that originates from the Latin word for the urban poor), that backed populists like Tiberius Gracchus that lead to a backlash from the aristocracy (and Gracchus's murder), leading to a series of populist (Marius, Caesar) and reactionary (Sulla, Octavian) dictators that destroyed the Republic.
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phasma ex machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #33
69. kick nt
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
5. Kept tellin' you all that Citigroup is a criminal enterprise.
Now I see that it's a treasonous one.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. They were the ones who petitioned the hardest for the repeal of Glass Steagal
The reason being? Their CEO liked the Umbrella logo of Travelers Insurance.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #5
18. This is long winded but it shows how much clout Citi possesses
Edited on Sun Oct-04-09 06:33 PM by truedelphi
In Jan of 1994, due to a minor illness, I watched TV 24/7.

One of the wonderful things that was going on that week was that the Chiappas were in revolt. Not only that -- the friggin' Mainstream Media was responding like crazy. They actually sent CBS, NBC and ABC reporters down to the hills of the farming community. Local news casters allowed for the film videos of the young reporters taking the viewer into the insides of the revolting peasants' huts. Families that had a halfway decent set of dishes were considered "wealthy" because many families only had several eating implements to share among five six or more people. These opeople were poor in a way that most Americans could not envision - no running water, dirt floors, little in the way of stored food, etc.

The media was excited about it. They had detailed explanations of how oppressed these peasants were. How onerous the Mexican army sent in to fight against them.
"Tune back in at 6 or 11 or tomorrow morning, and there will be even more," became an hourly promise.

"This is almost like Edward Murrow" thought I.

Friday early morning media had an update on the revolt. But then at the noon news feed, all that came up was a report that skater Nancy Kerrigan had her knee badly damaged by two guys with crude weapons. From that point on, the Nacy Kerrigan/Tonya Harding 24/7 was all that remained of news.

Over a decade later, in an article in Rolling Stone, it was revealed that Citibank put out the word that the coverage had to be squashed immediately.

And so it was.

Not one of the major news stations showed anything more about the Chiappas revolt. And it was at least ten days later that I read a small update (like on page 22) of the San Francisco Chronicle.






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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #18
36. Fucking BASTARDS!!!
:grr:
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:05 AM
Response to Reply #18
74. I think you should dig up more info on that. I believe you- it's just like a
major bank to do something like that- but you sound pissed off enough, personally offended enough, to want to learn more.

I very vaguely recall that; I was young and having a bad summer. All I remember is the Harding/Kerrigan shit getting played over and over and over, and thinking "isn't there something more important they could show?"

Guess I was right.
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ThePantaloon.com Donating Member (278 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
19. Fuck Citibank
No wonder they wouldn't give me a business checking account. Jackholes.
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MajorChode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #5
23. How can Citigroup be blamed for telling the truth?
They aren't the ones that stacked the deck against the middle class, they are just playing by the rules. It's the GOPhers that need to go to jail.
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northernlights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #23
44. because they lobbied hard for repeal of Glass-Steagall
and even though it was a treasonous Gramm who sponsored the bill, Clinton signed it. :grr:
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MajorChode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #44
52. Glass-Steagall has nothing to do with plutonomy
Plutonomy simply states that the ultra rich have most of the wealth so they are the ones driving almost all of the economy.

Citigroup is just devising investment tactics to take the most advantage of that reality. Faulting Citigroup for that reality is like shooting the messenger.
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northernlights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #52
111. Glass-Steagall had a lot to do with protecting the middle class
from yet another avenue of outright theft by the plutonomy. So it really isn't shooting the messenger. It's shooting one of the aiders and abettors of the crime.
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MajorChode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #111
128. You're really reaching here
By far, the biggest reason why you have a plutonomy in the first place is a regressive tax structure that allows the wealthy to continue to grow more wealth exponentially. The repeal of Glass-Steagall may have played a part, but that part is so small as to be irrelevant for all intents and purposes. There's plenty of other things well out ahead of that pack. Without regressive tax laws, the plutonomy never would have happened.

Furthermore, Glass-Steagall had nothing to do with protecting the middle class. It had to do with protecting the stability of the banking industry, which the Great Depression taught us would collapse of it's own weight if not stringently regulated. Such a collapse affects ALL classes, not just those in the middle.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #23
45. Unfortunately..
... if you had been paying attention you would know that the Dems are only 1% less culpable than the Reps in this regard.

They are all bought and sold my friend.
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MajorChode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #45
49. Bullshit
How many Democrats voted for Bush's tax cuts for the rich?

How many Democrats voted to cut the taxes on equity investments to 20% and then to 15%?

Clinton may have signed some of those bills, but only because he never would have gotten any of his agenda passed had he not. The only chance Clinton had was passing a modest tax increase on the richest Americans and the public responded with the '94 takeover of congress. It has nothing to do with being "bought and sold." It has to do with surviving politically.

Even the suggestion of raising taxes on the rich gets turned into bullshit socialist accusations and all sorts of other hyperbole. That's a reflection of the stupidity of the average American why buys into the brain dead trickle down bullshit mantra.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. How much has Obama raised...
.. on the rich?

After watching his less than stellar performance in every area you could say I'm not expecting much.

Fact is, maybe Dems have not ACTIVELY fucked over the poor and middle class, but they've done nothing to fix it all either.
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MajorChode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. So who do you think deserves most of the blame for that?
The Democrats who have to legislate with one hand tied to their balls, or John Q. Public who gave the rope to the GOP?
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. The Democrats we have right now..
... are a spineless bunch of corporatocrats, with the possible exception of a handful like Kucinich.

They have let the GOP paint them into a rhetorical corner and they are too cowardly and stupid (except Grayson) to counter the bullshit arguments of the right.

I have little respect for any of them any more but you are free to grovel over the crumbs of advancement they have made, I'm not satisfied.

We are in a DEPRESSION right now, and the pain level is going to steadily rise in the coming years. Perhaps some politicians will stand up and do something, right now the health care "reform" and the financial re-regulation that should both be a slam dunk are barely on life support.

If you are satisfied, you'd be satisfied with ANYTHING.
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MajorChode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. Give me a break
You can't even begin to support your ridiculous assertion that "the Dems are only 1% less culpable than the Reps" so now you want to engage in some sort of tangential discussion about how the Democrats aren't nearly as far to the far left as you'd like and therefore somehow I am completely content with the current state of progress.

I can't say you're at all coherent, my friend, but you are amusing.

Cheers!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
MajorChode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. Your childish name calling speaks volumes about you
Whether you like it or not.

I bet you didn't realize how much you're revealing about yourself, though.

Have a nice day!
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #51
59. Just under 5% and that nearly caused a revolution
I think you proved the other poster's point.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #59
102. But won't that increase when Bush's Tax Cuts for the rich expire in 2010?
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #49
84. enough to pass them. twice. that's all it takes. the others don't have to vote
Edited on Mon Oct-05-09 07:27 AM by Hannah Bell
when there's enough others to give political cover so the others huff & puff about how horrrrible the pubs are, cutting taxes.

people aren't buying it anymore.

"On May 26, 2001, Nelson was one of a dozen Democrats to support president George W. Bush's Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001: the massive tax cut package that defined the administration's plans for job growth. The bill was passed using reconciliation -- meaning it wasn't subject to a Democratic filibuster -- and received the support of 58 Senators.

Two years later, Bush had introduced a second tax-cut package, this one entitled The Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003. That too was passed through reconciliation with Nelson's vote proving even more critical. The Nebraskan was one of only two Democrats to back the measure, giving it exactly the 50 votes needed to become law (Vice President Dick Cheney voted yea to break the impasse)."
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MajorChode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #84
93. "enough" /= 99%
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #93
119. if 1 vote is all that's needed to pass it, why would more go on record with an unpopular vote?
in my state the two senators trade off the unpopular votes so neither has to take all the political heat. you think the party as a whole doesn't do the same?

both cuts passed, with democrats providing the crucial votes for passage both times.
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MajorChode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #119
121. Follow the thread backwards
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #121
122. non-seq
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MajorChode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #122
125. That's been your problem all along
Cheers!
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #125
127. i don't have a problem. yours is you want to pretend dems don't collude in the ruling
class agenda.
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MajorChode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #127
129. Oh yes, only the dyed in the wool card carrying Marxists have the one and only true answer
Everyone else are sheep and useful idiots of the nobility who live only to enslave the proletariat and steal candy from small children. And nothing will ever change until the people rise up in bloody revolution and kill the ever living shit out of all the ruling classes and their bourgeoisie enablers. Then and only then will the working classes taste the fruits of their labor and wars will end and milk and honey will flow freely and dogs and cats can finally come together and blah de blah blah fucking blah.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
34. Hence my invocation of the guillotine.
Traitors, all!
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
8. I can't believe they were stupid enough to put this in writing
It is a well known fact and countless economist have been pointing to it.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Never underestimate the stupidity of Citi.
Or the cupidity, either.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. They are in the most trouble of all the banks
I would not be surprised to see them take a big hit for this politically.

Politicians like to make the appearance of doing something while doing nothing. Citibank would be a good target.
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #8
89. Probably not stupidity but arrogance.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
9. A rich man has only one vote unless you sell him yours.
Suggesting companies focus on the few wealthy and ignore the mass of citizens is.....one of the
DUMBEST ideas I've read in a looooooooooooooooonnnnggggg time. The wealthy are actually crappy consumers. One percent of the population has ten homes each needing to be furnished and stocked. Unless they redecorate once a week, even with padded inflated bills, that won't support more than a very few businesses. Meanwhile, 99% with a whole lot less needs something for their MILLIONS of tiny places.

Just what I'd expect from the criminal masterminds of Citi.
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Catshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. As we saw with the town hall meeting disruptors, there are plenty of sheep willing to do that.
Think of the low income people who lap up whatever Rush and Beck say and then vote against their own interests. All "they" need to do is put out a few misleading and scary ads and those who let others do their thinking for them will drink the Kool-aid and vote accordingly.
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Angry Dragon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #13
27. Fear
All you have to do is feed on people's fears.  A lot of the
less well to do are tied up in their religion.  Threaten
their religion and they get scared and then are easily lead. 
This is where the right works the best.  I hear Rush and Beck
talk about capitalism as the strength of this country and the
people at the bottom just suck this up and then the bottom
wonders why they are getting left behind.  
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Catshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #27
40. Well said..
Religion is certainly a big factor. It's amazing how passive people are about something they hold so dear, letting "Father" or the minister decide for them -- it's been that way for eons.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 03:49 AM
Response to Reply #9
73. "A rich man has only one vote unless you sell him yours"
But a Mobster/Racketeer knows that the people we all vote for are for sale now to the highest bidder. So in order to keep most of his loot the Mobster/Racketeer buys the politicians, instead of the voter's votes, that he can't otherwise get away with stealing.

We have been playing against the rich people's stacked deck for over a hundred years. FDR cut the cards once, but the GOPers have been dealing off of the bottom ever since. Obama should have invested a lot more in rebuilding this country and creating jobs. So far IMHO, that is the democrat's biggest blunder since November. Repeal every one of the Bush tax cuts for the rich and it would pay for real economic first aid.
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wolfgangmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #73
110. I beleive that this is what Sherlock Holmes refered to as ...
... a fatal flaw.

Why control the masses when you can control the loud and the representatives of democracy. Democracy that is for sale is plutocracy.
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NJCher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #9
85. anecdotal evidence
The wealthy are actually crappy consumers.

Might be true--a friend who does business in a variety of communities here in the northeast dreads doing business with Greenwich customers the most. His business has to do with dining and country clubs and he says they complain about the specials and tear them to pieces about the prices.

When I worked in advertising for McDonald's Corp., it was a well known fact that we had to be careful about price increases in stores around Wall Street. They would notice an increase of one cent in price on a Big Mac and would back off ordering it.


Cher

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wolfgangmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #9
109. Keep in mind the difference between ownership and control
Although the rich may only PERSONALLY own 10 houses (or 20 or 30 or ...) they control huge blocks of purchasing power and most of what they purchase is NOT retail.

That is the market Citi is after. The market that the rich control.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #9
123. but they have most of the money.
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Helga Scow Stern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
14. All the more reason to discredit Acorn:
>>the rising wealth gap between the rich and poor will probably at some point lead to a political backlash. Whilst the rich are getting a greater share of the wealth, and the poor a lesser share, political enfrachisement remains as was -- one person, one vote (in the plutonomies). At some point it is likely that labor will fight back against the rising profit share of the rich and there will be a political backlash against the rising wealth of the rich. This could be felt through higher taxation on the rich (or indirectly though higher corporate taxes/regulation) or through trying to protect indigenous (home-grow)] laborers, in a push-back on globalization -- either anti-mmigration, or protectionism. We dont see this happening yet, though there are signs of rising political tensions. However we are keeping a close eye on developments.<<
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
15. Hey...the report gives out e-mail addresses!!
The report also says " the WORLD is dividing into 2 blocs"
( as has been predicted for some time)
The have and have-nots.
In this case, the very. very. haves versus not very at all nots.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
16. One inevitable result from Plutonomy is national ignorance and
Edited on Sun Oct-04-09 05:23 PM by Uncle Joe
increasing stupidity as it becomes a requisite to support the non-sensical, carcinogenic notion of allowing Plutonomy to rule the nation.

Plutonomy and Plutonium are both deadly poison, but whereas the latter has no intent of it's own, the former left to it's own devices can only increase in and magnify corruption and evil manipulation as a means of sustaining itself.

Thanks for the thread, kpete.


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Leftist Agitator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
17. There is only one way to stop this.
Round 'em up, put 'em into camps, and take back what they have stolen from We the People.
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datasuspect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. is silk strong enough to make nooses?
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Spider silk is stronger than steel. (nt)
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MajorChode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
22. Here's the fundamental reality that many on DU (and everywhere else) can't fathom
While people are busy knocking the people in the $80-120K income range, the richest 1%($462K per year) are laughing all the way to the bank. Those in the $80-120K income range are the most heavily taxed because our progressive tax structure hits them the hardest. Meanwhile the richest 1% benefit from regressive taxation. That's why the richest 1% have managed to accumulate more wealth than the bottom 90%.

It's pretty simple really. If a person gets to a point where they make $100K per year or so, chances are they are paying a top marginal tax rate of 28% and 7.62% FICA on every dollar they make(or 15.24% if they are self employed). Meanwhile the richest 1% (who own 90% of all equity investments) get taxed only 15% on those investments and pay no FICA. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that no matter how hard a working American works, the chances of them every accumulating any real wealth are almost nil, while the ultra rich are effectively getting as much as a 30% better return on their investments due to the tax advantages. The rich get richer and nobody else has a chance.

Raising the tax brackets only stacks the deck even more against the middle class so long as equity investments are taxed at only 15% and the rich get a free ride on FICA.
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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Yep, it's the "L" curve at work...
http://www.lcurve.org /

The US population is represented along the length of the football field, arranged in order of income.

Median US family income (the family at the 50 yard line) is ~$40,000 (a stack of $100 bills 1.6 inches high.)

--The family on the 95 yard line earns about $100,000 per year, a stack of $100 bills about 4 inches high.

--At the 99 yard line the income is about $300,000, a stack of $100 bills about a foot high.

--The curve reaches $1 million (a 40 inch high stack of $100 bills) one foot from the goal line.

--From there it keeps going up...it goes up 50 km (~30 miles) on this scale!

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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. One could make the income tax more progressive.
Edited on Sun Oct-04-09 07:11 PM by Selatius
A simple proposal would be to tax capital gains at the same rate as earned income. If a person were to make 50,000,000 in a year off investments in the stock market, he would be in the top tax bracket for most of his income. Even then, he would still walk home with over 30,000,000. Of course, there would have to be exceptions such as for IRAs and 401(k)s, but you get the gist.

However, I would add that if that were done, than tax brackets would have to be re-adjusted up the income ladder, not down. As it stands, the rich have been pushing the brackets further down on top of the middle class.
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MajorChode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #28
38. It's far deeper than that
A big part of the problem is FICA. While Social Security is arguably the best and most successful program in the history of the US, it's paid for exclusively by the lower and middle classes. Someone who is self employed pays as much as 15.24% on every dollar they make. That's more than Warren Buffett pays in his total federal tax bill.

Social Security is every American's responsibility and no more so than those who reap the most benefit of what the US has to offer. State taxes and use taxes are mostly regressive also.

Universal health care is another great idea, but make no mistake it will be paid for by the lower and middle classes and the deck will get stacked in favor of the rich even more.

The income tax brackets used to apply to stock income also, but this changed in the last 2 decades and has been whittled away until the rich pay only 15% at most (assuming they pay anything at all).

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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. As it stands, there is a FICA cap on income roughly over 100,000.
Edited on Sun Oct-04-09 07:52 PM by Selatius
That is, every dollar earned beyond that cap is not taxed for FICA. One proposal to deal with FICA insolvency by the 2040s is to simply remove the cap. The insolvency problem would essentially be a non-issue for another lifetime. Are you also arguing capital gains should also fall under a FICA tax?

Actually, I wouldn't say FICA becomes insolvent by the 2040s. What I really mean is by the 2040s, FICA will start paying out more than it gets in. Eventually, roughly 20 years after this milestone is hit, the trust fund is tapped dry, and there is no more buffer to cover the short-fall. In such a situation, FICA would have to cut benefits to all entitled by roughly 30%, so a senior citizen would only get 70% of what he or she is supposed to get in the future if nothing is done about it.
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MajorChode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #42
46. That's exactly what I'm suggesting
Income is income. Why should someone who lives off a trust fund get taxed at a lower rate than someone who punches a time clock?

Social Security costs about 4.4% of the GDP. So why is every working low and middle class American paying 12.4% (6.2% employee's share, 6.2% employer's share)? If you were to tax every dollar of income in the US at 4.4%, you could give every working American an 8% raise. Yes, it is a bit more complicated than that, but not much really.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #42
124. The boomers are mostly all dead by 2040. & the mid-range SS forecasts you
quote have been notoriously wrong thoughout their entire history.
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DireStrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #22
39. I don't think that's what's going on here.
Edited on Sun Oct-04-09 07:32 PM by DireStrike
There is always a nebulous definition of what "rich" entails, but DU has a far better grasp on it than the general public. I bet a poll would find "rich" - the people that get away with too much, don't pay their fair share - defined as at LEAST over 100k, and most likely over 2 or 3 hundred K. A good share of DUers fit into the class you describe themselves, and know firsthand how it goes.

It is as you say, the upper middle class gets slammed hardest, along with the poorest. They don't have the political power to stop the lower classes from hitting back against "the rich"... but the TRUE rich do, and always escape.

There are probably only a few thousand people that basically need to have 99% of their assets confiscated and redistributed throughout society, followed by a 90% top marginal rate, ABOVE say... 200k? 300K?


Are stock options taxed? If not, they should be.
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MajorChode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. I didn't say most, I said many
I would agree completely that most on DU have a much better grasp of the problem than the average man on the street.

But just try creating a new post complaining about much taxes the upper middle class pays and you'll get a chorus of people who say they only make $8K per year or whatever and how dare someone who makes more than the average complain about anything. What they don't understand is those people aren't the ones that are holding them back. If anything, they are shouldering the biggest burden.

I don't believe in wealth redistribution even under these circumstances. I do believe that hard work should be rewarded with all that society has to offer like a living wage, good benefits, time off, and fair access to the necessities of life, and that all Americans shouldn't have the deck stacked against them when it comes to accumulating capital. That isn't going to happen under our current system of taxation.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #43
103. Accumulation of capital as a means of earning a living is, itself, one of the prime causes of
strife in the U.S. The accumulation of capital assets, or ownership of an asset, removes most of the production from that asset from the general economic activity of the economy and leads to diminution of the over-all asset pool.


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MajorChode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #103
130. Interesting theory
So if we all just burned down our houses, businesses, and cash and moved to farm communes everyone would collectively be better off?
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stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #22
60. It's worse than that MC
Because the wealthiest 1% dont have regular income. I've toyed around with the idea of a wealth tax where the wealthiest 1% would have to pay 1/2 of 1% of their net worth in taxes each year.

THAT would get us somewhere.
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MajorChode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. The only wealth tax I can really get behind is an inheritance tax
I don't blame anyone for wanting to get rich or for getting rich. Taxes should be levied on income, not wealth. I can even see a very limited inheritance going from one generation to the next. I think a truly progressive tax is what's needed and that goes for all taxes in all forms. As long as there's an equal playing field for everyone things will eventually even out. I can see an extremely high temporary tax rate (say around 90%) on the mega rich for a few years to make up for at least the past 2-3 decades of inequity to speed things up.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #22
64. The Capital Gains tax needs a huge hike. Or it needs to be considered income and included in the
income tax.
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MajorChode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #64
96. It is considered income, it's just a "special" type of income
That's not subject to FICA and is currently capped at a 15% top marginal rate.

The reasoning(if you can call it that) is that corporate income is already taxed at the corporate level (partially) so it shouldn't be taxed at the same rate as wage income. The reality is many (if not most) of the blue chip corporations (which make up the lion's share of stock volume) pay no corporate income tax at all. My solution to that problem is to do away with corporate income tax altogether and tax all equity investment income exactly the same as all other income. The net effect will be higher revenue receipts and the end of the tax loophole that the ultra rich currently enjoy.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #96
133. That sounds to me like a good solution, on the surface. (nt)
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harun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #22
90. +1, tax wealth more, wage income less.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #22
97. It's that tried and true tactic - divide and conquer.
Edited on Mon Oct-05-09 10:29 AM by redqueen
The top % use our greed to divide the lower class from the middle class.

They also exploit the middle class's gullibility.

None of this is new.
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LiberalAndProud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #22
116. What is the top bracket when Bush's tax cut expires?
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #116
126. approximately the rates of the clinton admin.
Edited on Mon Oct-05-09 05:16 PM by Hannah Bell
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
25. As long as the super-rich have enough men with guns to protect them, then
their raping and pillaging will continue. We've got to stop supplying them with men with guns.
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RagAss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #25
35. They have enough now...but if the shit really flies they will never have enough....
See Russia 1917
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. We gotta start catapulting some shit then! nt
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
26. Time to take these arrogant fuckers to the guillotine!
Edited on Sun Oct-04-09 07:10 PM by Odin2005
And I mean that! :grr:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
47. bookmarked. K&R
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snagglepuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
50. bookmarked. K&R
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Kitty Herder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
54. K&R
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
62. "The Family" by Jeff Sharlet talks about those people. They make no bones
about wanting to rule over us.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-04-09 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
63. We could dust off a guillotine for the let them eat cake set.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
67. Plutonomy....what a crock of shit!!
Edited on Mon Oct-05-09 12:51 AM by CoffeeCat
These people are delusional, self-absorbed, stupid bastards who believe that
the yacht owners can prop up the U.S. economy---all...by...themselves.

This is similar to "teh stupid from the neocons". Just like the neocon statement papers,
this plutonomy ramblings is a bunch of baloney wrapped in pseudo-intellectual-ease.

You can dress up dumb with pretty words. Anyone can buy a thesaurus. It's still dumb.

If the uber elites can keep the economy afloat--then why are we in a recession? Why
did leading economic indicators (such as the Baltic Exchange Dry Index) tank during the
initial phase of the recession? Demand for EVERYTHING plummeted. Gee, I thought
the elite and their caviar-soaked billions didn't need the peasants (e.g.--those making
less than $500,000 per year).

If so, why did we plunge into recession and why are we now plunging back into more
bad economic times?

There is no doubt that the uber rich will suffer less in dire economic times. They've
got more resources, connections and cash. However, these people do not drive
the bulk of our U.S. economy---the rest of the country does. The fact that they think
they can "go it alone" isn't "shocking" or "upsetting". It's totally laughable and
ridiculous.

Yes, the elites own the companies that supply an impressive cash flow. However, their
cash flow is dependent upon other people investing in their company or buying their
products and services. If the lower 95 percent can't (or won't) pay their credit-card
bills, what happens? If those who own such brands as Target, Kraft, United Airlines, Pizza
Hut, Walgreen's, Ford--don't have the American people backing them--they fail.

Just look at their analysis, which spells out that a plutonomy flourished "in the roaring 20's".
Are they stupid? The destruction of the lower, middle and upper-middle classes during this time
--and the concentration of wealth to the upper echelons--drove us into The Great Depression.
They mention how wonderful a "roaring 20's" plutonomy was--without pondering the obvious
history that followed that period?

IDIOTS!

The uber-elite nimrods snatching up everything and planning to rule over a bunch of powerless
peasants is a failed model and a recipe for economic disaster--not some brilliant intellectual analysis!

These people are damn dumb. The fact that this nonsense is written by some pompous asses who
know how to crack open Roget's and go to town--doesn't mean it's true. It's crap.

The failed neocons and the soon-to-be-failed plutonomists can take their fake cerebral jargon and
their ill-conceived, pie-in-the-sky unicorn dreams of world domination--and shove them up their asses.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #67
72. The arguments presented in the Citigroup memo are bit persuasive.
If the memo is intended to argue for an investment strategy, it makes sense. But it makes no sense when it seems to suggest that economies following the plutonomy model are somehow healthier than the continental European economies and more egalitarian economies.

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izzybeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #67
94. They are saying that "we" aren't in a recession. Meaning, "we plutocrats"
Invest in companies that sell to the rich, make high end products, etc. That economy is just fine. It's the mass market economy that's in a recession.

Recessions are so proletarian.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
68. Top 10% get 25% of income, top 20% get 40%. Bottom 80% get 60%, some in transfer payments.
Basically the bottom 40% get just enough to sustain their lives & reproduce.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #68
104. Numbers are a bit off, I just looked them up a few days ago and the top 1% takes over 30%,
The next 20% of income goes to the next 19% of the population, the remaining 40+% goes to the next 60% and the last 20% of the population gets 0%. Breaking the last 20% down reveals that they actually have had a growing negative worth (~4%) since Raygun.


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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #104
120. pre-tax.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #68
114. Gini index
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 05:36 AM
Response to Original message
76. Plutonomy + Republiconism
This, too, shall pass
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Danascot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 06:05 AM
Response to Original message
77. Relevant OpEd from today's NYT
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caseymoz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #77
92. How suprising. Possessing $1.3 trillion, the wealthy might have bailed themselves out.

While government revenues might have bailed out the rest of us, say, people getting evicted from their homes. But, instead they had to take the government revenues and keep their $1.27 trillion.

It was, indeed, the biggest heist in history.
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voteearlyvoteoften Donating Member (548 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 06:14 AM
Response to Original message
79. Saw Moores flick last night
We wanted to help give him a great opening weekend. The plutonomy thesis was stunning. I hope this gets national attention.
I mean the dead peasant policies were grim but the plutonomy thesis is the part the media needs to spotlight.
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 06:24 AM
Response to Original message
80. They dont see this happening yet because they keep us pacified
with our Football, NASCAR and Television.

As long as everyone can see their beloved sporting event right in their living room, there will not be an uprising.

Once that is gone though, the rich fuckers had better head for their private islands and stay there. Once those redneck suckers who are fighting for their cause now figure out they have been duped, they will be storming the castles.
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #80
98. Not only do they keep us pacificed, they've successfully branded
anything that might remotely help someone other than the uber rich as "socialistic" or "communistic" and we see how the braindead Beck-Limbaugh fans just regurgitate that back without any understanding of what they're saying.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 07:01 AM
Response to Original message
83. Once again, thank-you Michael Moore. Great film exposing amazing corruption. nt
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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
99. They have successfully devised a system
that takes wealth from the middle class and distributes it among the wealthy.

Like the last modulus of wealth creation that just collapsed, just one probably has a few considerations left out.

Right now things are OK. The lunie right is blaming the lubruls for the mess they are in. Fox news is working hard to foment a civil war between the lubruls and the lunies. In the mean time, wealth is being shoveled toward the rich.

The problem is that if the lunie right figures out they've been had, they might turn on those that are actually responsible.
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2 Much Tribulation Donating Member (522 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
100. I recommend this post, the poster, & M. Moore's movie! (whether one agrees, or not) nt
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
101. K&R
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
105. K&R
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Orwellian_Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
106. K&R
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
107. kick for later reading...
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NoodleyAppendage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
112. Time to get a little 1789 on their ass! "Libert, galit, fraternit, ou la mort!" n/t
J
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #112
117. ...
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happygoluckytoyou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
113. i think homer simpson said it best...........DOH!
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
118. ...
:kick:
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NAO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
131. When was this initially leaked? How did the corporate media ignore it for so long?
Don't they feel stupid having Michael Moore break this kind of a major news story?
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AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-05-09 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
132. K & R
:kick:
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