Grayson was not out of line in using the word "holocaust"

[ashling]

Keith and Rachel made a big deal out of the fact that even though Grayson's remarks in general were appropriate, that he should not have used the word holocaust. Rachel even asked him three times to, basically, apologize for that word use.

I have no problem with it. And I think that Rachel, who I admire beyond words, was out of line in her line of questioning on that point.

hol⋅o⋅caust
  /ˈhɒləˌkɔst, ˈhoʊlə-/ Show Spelled Pronunciation

–noun
1. a great or complete devastation or destruction, esp. by fire.
2. a sacrifice completely consumed by fire; burnt offering.
3. (usually initial capital letter) the systematic mass slaughter of European Jews in Nazi concentration camps during World War II (usually prec. by the).
4. any mass slaughter or reckless destruction of life.

Origin:
1200–50; ME < LL holocaustum (Vulgate) < Gk holókauston (Septuagint), neut. of holókaustos burnt whole. See holo-, caustic
Text

The word does not just apply to Hitler's "Final Solution." It was not coined for that purpose.

It does, however, impart the concept of an intentional destruction.

He made the point rather well that by knowing that this is happening and doing nothing about it, we are complicit. By specifically trying to delay or halt attempts to fix this problems, Republicans are actually ratifying it.

That is, in every sense, a holocaust.

[avaistheone1]

1. That's true.

:kick:

[JBoris]

2. I'm sorry, but the last thing the HCR debate needs is BOTH sides alluding to Nazism

[Brickbat]

6. Agree. There are so many apt words that could have been used without bringing distracting images

into the debate.

[BBG]

17. Disagree.

I'm not sorry. Time to call a spade a spade and if the fuckers want to deny healthcare to our fellow citizens so their patrons can profit then it is time to call them out on it.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

3. You're right. It's EXACTLY THE SAME as the holocaust.

Please report to your nearest gas chamber for reeducation.

[Dr Fate]

8. "A" holocaust is not "the" holocaust.

So why mince words?

[ashling]

10. He did say "the" holocaust

I respectfully disagree. He used it as an adjective. I know you don't agree, but there is a difference.

[Tansy_Gold]

13. Excuse me? What word did he use as an adjective?

Not "holocaust." He used that, whether modified by the definite ("the")or indefinite ("a/an") article, as a noun.


Tansy Gold, grammar fascist, er, fetishist, er, fiend ;-)

[ashling]

25. As always, Tansy, you are correct

and the only reason I said that was that I knew it would result in your illustrious presence in our thread...(uh, yeah) Anyway, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
:rofl:

I stand corrected.

:hi:

[Tansy_Gold]

14. Delete, dupe

.

[aquart]

4. Yep.

[virgogal]

5. It's a generic word----what the hell is the big deal?PC madness.

[mamaleah]

19. Saying PC madness on DU is LOL funny. n/t

[virgogal]

20. That's me-----a laugh a minute!

[ThoughtCriminal]

7. A Vietnam War - Every Year

The number of people that die from our dysfunctional healthcare system every year is approaching the total number of Americans who died during the entire Vietnam war.

Add to that the financial ruin, the pain and suffering from treatable illness and injury. It's not a word I toss out lightly, but it fits.

[Fridays Child]

9. I have to agree.

[Tansy_Gold]

11. I agree completely

Many of these deaths are preventable, and that's the real "holocaust." And that the pukes sit by and whine about insurance company profits while mothers and daughters, sons and brothers, husbands and wives DIE and other lives are devastated by those deaths is simply unconscionable.

[Forkboy]

12. I'm uncomfortable with it.

I wish people would be extra careful when using it. I don't think it changes the inherent truth in what he's saying, but I think using it makes for an easy distraction...as we're seeing. However, the word was surrounded by so much righteous truth that I'm not going to be getting worked up over his using the term.

[Barack_America]

15. It's no worse than "A noun, a verb and 9/11" Guiliani.

Grayson was justified in using the word, but the word was specifically chosen for its emotional effect.

I say whatever, it's a minor point that I'd rather not get hung up on.

Keith and Rachel were just trying to head the criticism off at the pass, but really it's time for everyone to let it go.

[MiniMe]

16. It doesn't apply to just the "Final Solution"

However, it is the most recognizable association for most people. So for that aspect of it, I agree with Keith, it was an unfortunate use of the word. And I also agree with Keith that he didn't need to use the word, he had the stats to prove what he was saying right in his hands. I think it took away from what he was saying. We are all over Ahmadinajad (however you spell it) about denying "The Holocaust", and rightly so. Just like we "xerox" a document when we aren't using a Xerox copier instead of photocopy a document, and probably most of us say "coke" when we really mean cola, the common usage of holocaust is The Holocaust meaning the final solution.

[ipaint]

18. I agree. People have been dying for at least 2 decades by the thousands

to tens of thousands every one of those years. Do the math.

It's a holocaust that currently has made it's way into the middle class.

[Fuzz]

21. I respectfully disagree. It conjures up 'Nazi' and we don't need to go that far.

Everything else he said though, I agree.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

22. Yup.

If anybody's being uncouth about it, it's the people purposefully misinterpreting it.

[stuball111]

23. And don't forget, 15 Million died in "The Holocaust" in WW2

There were Gays, Mentally challenged, Gypsies, and POW's that went to the camps. Although the final solution was set up against the Jewish people, they used the death camps to add other groups to their list. So insinuating anti-semitism here on Grayson, is ridiculous. There has also been many genocides that could qualify as a Holocaust, Cambodia, Stalins purge in Russia, Romania, and on and on throughout the centuries. Graysons words were "The Holocaust that is happening" in health care today.

Yes, when we hear that word, we think mostly of WW2, and the Jewish people who died there, but unless specifically defined, it's not always the case that it is meant as anti semitism. I think he used the word effectively, because, is a sense, that's what's going on. Profits before people can only be defined as genocide. Also, with all the Nazi name calling from the right, it's about time someone threw it back in their faces and at least Graysons comments were closer to the truth than the idiotic accusations the RW scaremongers have come up with. Hell, they might as well have used the Mummy, or that guy from the Halloween movies... just as scary, and just as ridiculous.

[cynatnite]

24. Sorry, I don't agree. He's got the facts to back him and this kind of hyperbole isn't necessary...

The repukes pulls this kind of crap. The dems don't need to be doing it, IMO.

[ddeclue]

26. FYI: Alan Grayson is Jewish - he's entitled to use that word any way he sees fit in my book.