Should bars have parking lots?

[taterguy]

Why do we make it so easy to break the law and endanger others?

And don't give me that Designated Driver crap.

Have you ever seen a Designated Driver? They almost always look like they wish they were somewhere else. Couldn't they just drop their friends off and pick them up later?

People go to bars to get drunk. The only exception to this rule is bars that have great live music but those are a dying breed.

[Taverner]

1. Why don't we hit all drinkers over the head with mallets?

Kick them a few times too....

Seriously, why do we have so many Nanny State laws?

To be honest - DUI punishments do fall into that "cruel and inhuman" category. Drink and drive? Ruin your life.

Fuck that.

[taterguy]

4. At this very moment I'm alone in my house drinking a beer

The odds of me harming someone other than myself are quite slim.

And I don't remember where I put my mallet.

[Taverner]

39. Yes but people drive

And people drive slightly intoxicated

And people drive intoxicated

And people drive severely intoxicated

There should be a distinction

[Ms. Toad]

63. Tell that to the person injured or killed by the slightly intoxicated driver.

[era veteran]

82. Distinction ? Above.08

I'm teaching a class Tuesday night to alcohol servers. The aim is to encourage responsible drinking. ( The other aim is how to mitigate your liability in 3rd party liability lawsuits/ some states Dram Shop Laws others under Nuisance Laws)

[Shell Beau]

94. Not a good argument IMO.

Slightly intoxicated drivers make bad decisions a lot. I don't want to be on the road with one beside me.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

41. Why do we have driveways? We make it so easy to drink and drive...

[Javaman]

75. For that matter why do we even have roads?

But why stop there?

I think if we just ban all vehicles using the wheel as a means of transport, all our problems will be solved!!!

Yayyyy!!!

But then they will be cracking down on drunken fast walking. Dang it!!!

Banning all feet, yeah that's it!!! feet are the problem!!! No one walks anymore!!!

We will just use a series of tubes carrying our favorite alcoholic beverage over long distances to our homes. Everyone will have a beer spigot and two of the hard liquor of their choice!!!

Sorry but set ups have to be provided by the homeowner.

I love going from A to bizarre in a flash. :)

[EOTE]

27. Just how should DUIs be punished, then?

If you think that they're "cruel and inhuman", what is the alternative? Drunk drivers kill a shit load of people, I think we need to do an awful lot in order to prevent that.

[Taverner]

29. I do like the losing license part actually

I think it should be a nominal fine, and lose your license for 1 mo, first offense

6 mo, second offense

1 year, third

5 years, fourth

Losing your license is good because it makes you reassess your priorities...

[melm00se]

72. challenge with that is

How do you tell, from the outside, that the driver is driving on a suspended/revoked license?

[Javaman]

76. By the twinkle of excitement and daring in their eye?

:shrug: :rofl:

[melm00se]

77. actually I was thinking

their James Dean/Marlon Brando defiant and rebellious smirk

[Javaman]

80. ...

:spray:

[tabasco]

113. If you get caught drunk driving three fucking times

you should lose your license for life.

In my state, if you get caught with some pot plants in your closet, you get a felony conviction and up to five years in prison.

Now, THAT'S FUCKED UP.

[MH1]

83. Drink, drive, and wreck - ruin someone else's life

I'd like to see some kind of interlock system that works, on every vehicle. Like seatbelts. But I've heard why that is currently "impractical".

That said, I have NO problem with drinkers who can avoid ether getting behind the wheel or into other situations where they can physically destroy other people.

[TommyO]

116. It's people like you that allow the right-wingers to call us nanny-staters

with your proposal for vehicle interlocks.

[unpossibles]

2. eh, I've gone to many bars for other reasons than to get drunk

I get what you're trying to say, but I disagree. And I've been to plenty of bars without getting drunk and even without drinking.

Granted, at the moment I don't even own a car so it's moot. And if it helps, a far larger problem to me is watching cops stand there and watch drunks drive out of a sporting event. Why not outlaw parking lots at stadiums too?

[taterguy]

3. There are at least a dozen sober people at most sporting events

At least the ones in my town

[unpossibles]

20. Try living in Columbus, OH

where the fans drunkenly riot whether they win or lose.

[subcomhd]

5. parking lots should have bars.

[armyowalgreens]

6. You really hate cars, don't you?

I can tell from your posts.

[taterguy]

8. I don't hate any inanimate objects

I just have some disagreements about how certain inanimate objects are used.

[armyowalgreens]

9. ooooooh....

:eyes:

[taterguy]

12. Have a Coors Fascist brew on me pal

[armyowalgreens]

15. SWEET!!!

[cprompt]

85. +1

my thoughts exactly as a long time lurker, every time i see a post it's "cars suck you all should ride bikes, you have no excuse not to b/c I do it"

[taterguy]

87. That's just evidence of your selective memory

I've got 18,000 + posts.

At the absolute most only 17,000 are "Cars Suck" posts but I honestly don't keep track.

BTW, if you're actually from Nashville I really enjoyed the bars there, except for the fact that you can't smoke in them. And yes, I walked to those bars from my hotel when I spent a weekend there.

[TorchTheWitch]

7. not everyone gets drunk in a bar and the people that work there need to park

the people that work there need to park. Why do you assume that everyone in the bar is to incapacitated to drive?

[taterguy]

11. D'oh. I forgot about employees

But couldn't they just have their own private lot that would be much smaller than the ones that most bars have?

[TorchTheWitch]

37. and what of the people in the bar that aren't too drunk to drive?

Do you get that scads of people go to bars without getting drunk?

Do you also get that without parking for the customers there will be no business at the bar, the employees (most of whom rely on tips to pay their bills) will not be able to make anything close to a decent living and the bar will close making those employees jobless?

Do you get that you are advocating the destruction of the entire drinking establishment business as well as those businesses that rely on being able to sell alcohol in order to survive leaving thousands and thousands of people out of work who may have no other marketable skills all for the sake of those that drive drunk?

Do you also get that drunk drivers don't always get their drunk on in drinking establishments at all?

[taterguy]

50. Lack of parking ruined the bar scene in Hoboken . . .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6666240&mesg_id=6666533

[dysfunctional press]

10. i don't drink, and yet i drive to bars on occasion.

so, yes.

[panader0]

13. I play in a band

and most of the bars around here that used to have live music have stopped because business is down. If you have more than two beers, you can be considered drunk. I have even known those arrested for "impaired to the slightest degree" at .02% bac.
There is no public transport around at night, so that's out. Going to the bar for a few beers and some laughs and live music is a dying pleasure. Throw in the ban on smoking (in the bars I refer to, everyone used to smoke), and bars are in serious trouble. Damn!
What is needed is a bus that leaves at closing time. A cab ride from where I live is 25 bucks each way. I know, I've done it to see a good band.

[EFerrari]

17. That would be a good small business for someone --

Your Designated Driver -- a bus that stops along the same route on the strip on those busy nights and takes you home, say, within 5 miles of the venue.

[MilesColtrane]

98. I've seen a service staffed by folks with folding bikes.

You call them, they bike over to where you are, drive you home in your own car after putting their bike in the trunk, accept payment, then bike to the next gig.

On edit: Here they are Wingman Chauffeur Service

http://www.flywingman.com/

[taterguy]

101. Contrary to popular belief Dallas is not the only city in this country

But apparently that's the only city served by Flingwingman.

And what happens if you want to go to a bar on a night when it's raining?

Or if you don't like strangers driving your car?

[MilesColtrane]

104. You're just full of questions, aren't you?

[taterguy]

105. Is there something wrong with being inquisitive?

[MilesColtrane]

112. You're just being a little coy.

You know the answers to most of the questions you've asked.

It sounds like you're just trying to goad someone into defending drunk driving, so you can jump on their shit.

[taterguy]

114. If I wanted to jump on someone's shit I would just do it for no reason

That's one of the great things about the Internet.

I was merely pointing out that fold-up bikes aren't a feasible solution for a lot of circumstances.

[JimWis]

26. We have such a bus in our town. It is an old school bus painted

blue - obviously named the Blue Bus. It travels all night and hits almost every bar in town, plus it takes folks home. I believe the cost is $ 5 or $ 10. I do not know how they schedule, whether they have a route, or how they handle folks all night - but they do a good business. I have been curious of how they work but never asked anyone. Anyway you can see them out and about all the time, especially on weekends. Bars, police, patrons all love them.

[RagAss]

14. I always park a block away anyway...

why ask for trouble.

[charlie]

16. When I was a bartender, I thought it was weird

that the law forbade store-bought alcohol after midnight, yet I had to work until 2am serving drinks to people who had to drive home.

[EFerrari]

18. That is weird. nt

[charlie]

21. That is Texas

Same difference :)

[Maru Kitteh]

66. In our town on Sundays there were no take home alcohol sales but you could go to the bar and get

as plastered as you want, and presumably drive home.

They finally changed that.

[Jersey Devil]

19. Well, you'd love Hoboken

Hoboken is wall to wall bars on Washington Street (the main drag) where all the yuppies hang out. You can't go a single block without a bar (on most blocks, several bars, so many I don't know how they can stay in business) and not a single one of them has a parking lot.

But then they have drunk pedestrian jams instead of traffic jams.

[onethatcares]

22. how else are the police gonna find the drunk drivers?

I mean, it's not like rocket science to go past a bar 6 times in an 8 hour shift and try not to notice the same car or truck there every time.

[flvegan]

23. Where would the patrons smoke? Or have their fistfights?

I mean, as long as we're stereotyping.

[we can do it]

24. Oh I THought You Said Bras

[xultar]

25. Where else would you puke, piss, and fight? You want that shit on the sidewalk or street

[htuttle]

28. I don't think bars should have parking lots.

DISCLAIMER: I've been in the Taxicab industry for 22 years. OF COURSE I'm going to say that...

ADDITIONAL DISCLAIMER: I've lost 2 friends to drunk drivers. If I see someone driving drunk, you can bet that I'm going to drop a dime on their ass. I've even followed drunk drivers for several miles until the police met up with us. That's just how I roll.

"'Cause the man from Mars stopped eating cars And eating bars And now he only eats guitars. Get up!"

[Xicano]

30. If I went to bars and they had no parking lots, I'd just park down the street.

n/t

[chrisau214]

31. If There Are No Parking Lots

That then means that the backseat of your car is not quickly accessible. If the backseat of your car is not quickly accessible this means that the drunken sex with a stranger will have to take place on the sidewalk in front of the bar. Any children who are wandering by would then witness things that they are really too young to see.

Why do you want to expose young children to indecent acts of sidewalk perversion?





Chris

[conscious evolution]

73. LOL!

[Quantess]

32. Most people can have one or two drinks and be under the limit.

Based on my body weight, I can have one drink and be under .08

[taterguy]

34. How many people go to bars and only have one or two drinks?

[etherealtruth]

35. I rarely have more than one over the course of an evening

I also enjoy going out (when work and motherhood responsibilities allow).

My point: we exist

[Quantess]

38. More than you think, maybe. It depends on the setting.

There have been times when I sat there and sipped at one drink until the ice melted.

[JonQ]

40. Depends

in a lot of big cities you'll have to take out a 2nd mortgage to afford more than 2 drinks.

Even the cheap beer will run you over 4 dollars a bottle.

Ridiculous. Cut the prices and more people could afford taxis home.

[taterguy]

43. Big cities have subways

Epic fail on your anecdotal example!

(Depending of course on your definition of big city)

[JonQ]

44. Oh I was unaware that every big city had a subway

I mean I lived in houston and it didn't have one. So I guess that means houston was a small town. As the 4th largest "city" in the country that means at most we have 3 large cities in the US.

It has a metro, but that's limited in where it can go (still requires a car to get home from most places) and after 8 is full of crackheads.

[slackmaster]

49. I rarely have more than two

And if I do, it's always with food and over an extended period of time.

I think you are projecting your own drinking habits on other people.

[Shell Beau]

96. Well I have to say the bars I have been to around here, the

sober-ish people are few and far between. I think more people are drunk than those that are just having a couple.

[scrinmaster]

59. I usually only have a beer or two over the course of three or more hours.

I don't really like the lack of control I have when I'm drunk outside of my house, so I usually don't get drunk at bars.

[donco6]

70. I rarely have more than two.

And if I do, I'm with my partner who doesn't drink at all.

[Zix]

117. My SO, for a start.

[jmm]

33. Maybe you're just going to the wrong bars with the wrong people?

:shrug:

Not everybody drinks to get drunk and there are even some who enjoy going out and not drinking at all.

A more practical way to deal with drunk driving would be not over serving bar patrons. It can be tough to determine when a person has had too much to drink but some bartenders could use more encouragement and education regarding cutting people off. I've been out many times and have seen people over served.

[taterguy]

36. The savvy drunks will just ask someone else to get them a drink

Seriously, there's a vast difference between what's noticeably impairing and what condition you need to be in to safely drive a car.

I know a lot of people that can drive after drinking in normal situations.

The problem arises when there's an emergency.

Countless accidents are caused when Person A does something stupid and Person B doesn't react quickly enough. Alcohol slows reaction time.

Of course I am a bit biased. I've been "over-served" too many times to count. Then I walked home or called a cab.

[jmm]

42. On more than one occasion I've been the person getting drinks for others.

A few years ago while out with some friends we realized bartenders were making my drinks stronger than theirs. Since then I have several friends who alway want me to get their drinks for them. I may not have been impaired and wouldn't encourage others to be impaired but I am surprised by how much I've been served without being questioned. I've gone to places where you had to buy a minimum number of drinks(including with a person in AA which made for an awkward situation) but I've never seen a place enforce a maximum. I have a friend who swears she could get drunk sucking on one of the ice cubes from my drinks. I realize even setting specific numbers isn't a perfect solution because people have different tolerances but many people working in bars need to keep a better eye on what's happening in their establishments. I once watched a guy who was clearly wasted level a bar and get into an argument with a friend in the parking lot. The drunk guy owned the car they came in and he didn't want to let the designated driver drive. Instead of helping matters the bouncers yelled at them to quit fighting on their property. My brother who had never met them before that night ending up mediating the situation and the drunk guy handed his keys to his friend.

[JonQ]

45. Doesn't this ignore the concept of the designated driver?

epic premise fail.

[Liquorice]

46. Drunks drivers are a scourge. They should be put in jail for a long time and then never allowed

to drive again. And bars should not have parking lots, except for employee parking.

[slackmaster]

47. Not only have I seen a designated driver, I've been one several times

You must not get out much.

People go to bars to get drunk. The only exception to this rule is bars that have great live music but those are a dying breed.

They also go to bars to watch sporting events and hang out with friends. I did that last night.

[Pavulon]

48. Or to pull leg..Just saying

women go to bars and some people go there to try to convince them to hit the hay... Not being shit faced makes this easier. At least my pre married mind sees it that way.

[dionysus]

51. well, i also wonder why there isn't a cop outside the parking lot pulling everyone over. that would

suck

[taterguy]

53. The technical answer is that they would still need probable cause to pull you over

And of course how would you decide which bars to target?

[dionysus]

68. i'm not advocating it, i'm just surprised they don't do it.

[Warren DeMontague]

93. They do.

I've seen it.

[Ezlivin]

52. People who like to drink a lot should drive RVs

Then they can drive to a bar, get shitfaced and return to their RV to recover.

Disclaimer: I'm a life member of the Good Sam Club.

[old mark]

54. How about cab stands? Free phone to the cab companies?

Cab ride is cheaper than a DUI, or trip to a hospital or jail.
Rec.
mark

[taterguy]

100. Why not take a cab to the bar in the first place?

You're going to have to take a second cab ride to retrieve your car the next day.

Wouldn't it be better to just leave your car at home?

[Thothmes]

55. Lets just outlaw the manufacture, transportation, sale

and consumption of all alcoholic beverages. That would solve all of those problems relating to DUIs etc.

[Warren DeMontague]

92. Or we could just outlaw hyperbolic overreaction.

:shrug:

[JBoy]

56. This thread is making me thirsty.

[lumberjack_jeff]

57. Should cellular phones have batteries?

Don't give me any of this "I only text when I'm not driving" crap.

If a curly cord was good enough for your grandma, it's good enough for you.

[datasuspect]

58. truckstops used to have bars

[Odin2005]

60. If you've never seen a designated driver you are not paying attention.

[fujiyama]

61. Doesn't matter if you think they "should" or not

They do and will. Getting rid of them, changes the American landscape. We as a people drink, and drink a lot.

And we could argue that restaurants shouldn't have bars either. I could just as likely get a drink at any restaurant.

[Ms. Toad]

62. Either my spouse or I are the designated driver all the time.

Neither of us mind - and most of the time even the one who is not the designated driver is not over the legal limit.

[Hippo_Tron]

64. You've never gone to a bar to just to have one drink?

Because frankly I do it all of the time, particularly after work. I go have a beer (well within the legal limit even if I were to chug it and then immediately get in my car and start driving) and some chips or pretzels and stay there for an hour or an hour and a half or so.

It's not just after work either. If I want to catch up with a friend or just chat with someone we might go to a bar and have a drink. And by one drink I don't mean five, I mean one. Just because somebody is going to a bar doesn't mean they are going to a bar to get drunk. Bars can be good places to socialize just like coffee shops can be.

[Toucano]

65. I miss the old days!

In "Double Indemnity" (1944) Fred McMurray gets served liquor while seated in his car at a drive-in restaurant.

It always makes me laugh when I see that scene.

[earth mom]

67. NO, Bars should not having parking lots. nt

[Dorian Gray]

69. Some bars also serve food....

there are many an Irish or British pub that have great meals.

[Rosie1223]

71. I love you, taterguy

kicking because I love popcorn in the morning.

:popcorn:

[taterguy]

81. Everybody loves everybody when they're drunk

Or is it everybody hates everybody?

I can never remember.

:shrug:

[Toasterlad]

74. This Is Quite Honestly the Dumbest Post I Ever Remember Seeing on DU

[taterguy]

78. Oh FFS

I've made countless posts that were a lot dumber than this one.

:eyes:

[Toasterlad]

79. LOL. Well Played.

[Warren DeMontague]

84. Honestly, I think the only realistic solution to this is to let robots drive for us.

Seriously. When I was still drinking, a robot chauffeur would have been ideal.

As it is, my best friend was killed by a drunk driver. Don't drink and drive. Bite the bullet & pay for a fucking cab.

[blogslut]

86. How do you get home from a bar?

Is biking or walking drunk any better? Judgment and coordination are impaired. If a person biking drunk swerves into a car, is the bicyclist not responsible for the accident?

[taterguy]

89. I walk or take a cab

I admit that I used to bike drunk until I figured out that cab fares are a lot cheaper than ambulance rides / ER bills.

[Warren DeMontague]

91. Because although you can cause damage with your body or with a bike

it's nothing compared to what you can do with a 2 ton automobile.

[BOG PERSON]

88. That's a question I've asked myself many times.

and the answer I've arrived at is no, they should not.

[Cleita]

90. I used to be a bartender and even though we did our best to convince

inebriated customers to call a relative or cab to take them home, often they didn't. I think today that bar owners should get together and have a shuttle service running every hour to take people home. I think it could be done reasonably inexpensively. Also, a bar has to have at least a small parking area to get deliveries. Otherwise the delivery trucks block the streets as happens in the village where I live where the stores don't have parking as a rule.

[Retrograde]

95. Yes, I've seen designated drivers

been one myself, for a scotch tasting (can't stand the stuff). I've been on winery tours with a person who volunteered to drive because, although he can't tolerate alcohol wanted to come along and take pictures.

People also go to bars sometimes to socialize. The places won't kick you out if you don't drink alcohol - I've ordered designer water when I've been out with people and didn't feel like drinking alcohol and no one blinked an eye.

[Shell Beau]

97. A lot of the bars around here are restaurants, and by a certain

hour, the band shows up, and it becomes more of a bar. So yeah, we need the parking lots. And I have called a cab many of times and left my car there.

[ddeclue]

99. Should parking lots have bars?

:P

[Blue-Jay]

102. Bars should not have bike racks.

Drunken cyclists are a menace.

[taterguy]

103. A menace to themselves

A minor annoyance to others

Besides, none of the bars in my area have bike racks. They all have parking lots.

[TorchTheWitch]

106. bullshit - people don't go to bars to get drunk

It's far easier and cheaper and less dangerous to get drunk in your own home. People go to bars to socialize. Alcohol for some reason has always been a part of our society's socializing rituals... maybe because alcohol lowers inhibitions thus making socializing easier.

We already know from Prohibition that outlawing bars and drinking hardly stopped people from drinking outside their own home. The problem isn't bars with or without parking lots... the problem is people who insist on driving drunk WHERE EVER they did their drinking which is often not bars. People do tend to get more drunk at places other than bars because there is no one in authority to cut them off or throw them out when they get noticably drunk.

[taterguy]

108. What could go wrong if someone with lowered inhibitions gets behind the wheel?

People drink alcohol because they like the slightly altered state of consciousness that it provides. Few drink it for the taste.

I'm not suggesting Prohibition of any sort. I simply think it's a bad idea to combine drinking with operating a complex piece of machinery that weighs several thousand pounds and can easily achieve speeds of over 100 mph.

People would still go to bars if they couldn't drive. They'd simply find other ways to get there. We're a remarkably resourceful society when we have enough motivation.

ps: If I had a nickel for every time a bartender has served me when my BAC exceeded 0.08 . . . well I could afford to build a lavish bar in my back yard.

[Deja Q]

107. Cheap wanna-be manufactured techno replaced real music groups a long time ago

So much for local businesses and local talent.

[taterguy]

109. Woody Guthrie predicted that juke boxes would destroy live music

He was just off by about 70 years.

[TankLV]

110. That's a perfectly delicious question - and one to which I have no ready answer...

I have often thought about that - most recently when we all went out to local martini bar on payday and we all were SERIOUSLY indulging...

Of course, if the Taxi rides didn't cost over ONE HUNDRED DOLLARS for the fucking round trip, more people would use them!!!

If we're serious about drunk driving - then the powers that be need to make affordable transportation available...

[taterguy]

118. Is it a question of affordable transportation or housing patterns?

I'm going to assume that $100 dollar cab ride covered a considerable distance.

Mass transit isn't feasible from an environmental / economic standpoint unless it serves areas of very high population density.

That leaves automobiles and those are expensive to own, maintain, insure etc.

It costs me ten bucks round trip to get to the nearest martini bar, and that's if I feel like splurging instead of walking.

[Pharlo]

111. Bring back hitching rails.

Doesn't matter how shit faced plastered a person gets then, a good horse will always find it's way home. Don't have to worry about drunken drivers, walkers, or cyclists. Just make it illegal to serve the horses liquor - that should be easy enough to monitor.

[TommyO]

115. Why don't we just arrest them as they walk into the bar under

suspicion of a future DWI?