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Gore Vidal: ‘We’ll have a dictatorship soon in the US’

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 12:25 PM
Original message
Gore Vidal: ‘We’ll have a dictatorship soon in the US’
Gore Vidal: ‘We’ll have a dictatorship soon in the US’

The grand old man of letters Gore Vidal claims America is ‘rotting away’ —
and don’t expect Barack Obama to save it

A conversation with Gore Vidal unfolds at his pace. He answers questions imperiously, occasionally playfully, with a piercing, lethal dryness. He is 83 and in a wheelchair (a result of hypothermia suffered in the war, his left knee is made of titanium). But he can walk (“Of course I can”) and after a recent performance of Mother Courage at London’s National Theatre he stood to deliver an anti-war speech to the audience.

How was his friend Fiona Shaw in the title role? “Very good.” Where did they meet? Silence. The US? “Well, it wasn’t Russia.” What’s he writing at the moment? “It’s a little boring to talk about. Most writers seem to do little else but talk about themselves and their work, in majestic terms.” He means self-glorifying? “You’ve stumbled on the phrase,” he says, regally enough. “Continue to use it.”

Vidal is sitting in the Connaught Hotel in Mayfair, where he has been coming to stay for 60 years. He is wearing a brown suit jacket, brown jumper, tracksuit bottoms; his white hair twirled into a Tintin-esque quiff and with his hooded eyes, delicate yet craggy features and arch expression, he looks like Quentin Crisp, but accessorised with a low, lugubrious growl rather than camp lisp.

He points to an apartment opposite the hotel where Churchill stayed during the Second World War, as Downing Street was “getting hammered by the Nazis. The crowds would cheer him from the street, he knew great PR.” In a flash, this memory reminds you of the swathe of history Vidal has experienced with great intimacy: he was friends with JFK, fought in the war, his father Gene, an Olympic decathlete and aeronautics teacher, founded TWA among other airlines and had a relationship with Amelia Earhart. (Vidal first flew and landed a plane when he was 10.) He was a screenwriter for MGM in the dying days of the studio system, toyed with being a politician, he has written 24 novels and is hailed as one of the world’s greatest essayists.


http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women...
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PreacherCasey Donating Member (717 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. "When you foreigners hear the word ‘conservative,’
you think of kindly old men hunting foxes. They're not, they're fascists."

I don't like painting people with such a broad brush, but I fear that he is correct.
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juno jones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
2. He was ultimately right about there being no difference between the parties.
I first read that in the eighties and I thought, "Jesus, he's dead wrong." But he was right on that one.

I do disagree with his assesment of Hillary, or perhaps he meant it as a backhand compliment. Elizabeth the First might have made history as a 'great personage', but it doesn't mean that she wasn't a tyrant in her own way.

I suspect we will get our tyrant yet, maybe not in Obama's term(s) but soon after if we don't clean house. And lookee! Right on cue, there's empty jails being run by shady bastards in SD. My problem with conspiracy theory is how much of the shit actually pans out after about twenty years or so.

I scoff when I hear this stuff. Then it happens.
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Beer on a stick Donating Member (421 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
3. Let's not forget: Vidal is a self-congratulating, spotlight-seeking whore.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. did he touch a nerve?
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Beer on a stick Donating Member (421 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. No, not really. I know the man's background. He's a self-important buffoon.
If you like self-important buffoons who only interest is in hearing the sound of their own names, feel free to do so.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. sure... whatever you say
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-02-09 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #10
38. Clearly
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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. Convince me you held that opinion between 2001 and 2008, please nt
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Beer on a stick Donating Member (421 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Convince me that you're not posting from prison.
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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Actually, I AM posting from prison

Now convince me Vidal Gore was a "whore" when he was rightfully criticizing the Bush junta.
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Beer on a stick Donating Member (421 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Nah, that doesn't convince me.
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lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. You probably don't get his wit either
That's sad
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Beer on a stick Donating Member (421 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. You probably enjoy his wit, too.
That's sad.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
19. You're not worthy to wipe his withered old ass. n/t
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Beer on a stick Donating Member (421 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Take your fantasies to a different forum, thanks.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
4. It's amazing how sharp his mind still remains...
One of the most interesting people of our lifetimes, in my opinion.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #4
24. Agree . . . and his observation is obviously correct . . . but then think back
Edited on Wed Sep-30-09 01:41 PM by defendandprotect
to the McCarthy Era . . . what was that if not fascism?

And, I'm not sure that we entirely overcame that period.

The right wing is historically full-time swiftboating democracy.


The article, however, fails because it's less concerned with the subject of

fascism than with Gore's personal life.



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mimitabby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
5. yeah and he likes Timothy Mc Veigh
that makes me doubt every word he says.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Whaaaa?
:wtf:

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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. lol... care to back that up?
I seen many absurd things posted here to kill the messenger, but your attempt is ridiculous to say the least.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. No doubt Vidal's likewise a Holocaust denier, birther, and 9/11 truther (he IS on that one!)
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. Well, he spoke of the president in an insufficiently reverent manner,
so it's under the Hopemobile with him!

He'll fit right in, because pretty much every good progressive, not to mention every traditional Democratic Party constituency, is there already.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
23. August 17, 2001: Vidal Praises Oklahoma Bomber for Heroic Aims
The writer Gore Vidal yesterday compared the executed Oklahoma bomber Timothy McVeigh to Paul Revere, the hero of American independence.

In a withering address at the Edinburgh book festival, the liberal novelist and elder statesman of the Gore political dynasty said the former soldier decorated for bravery in the Gulf war wanted to send out a warning that the government had been bought by corporate America and "its secret police, the FBI, were out of control. What McVeigh was saying was, 'The Feds are coming, the Feds are coming'. "

In his strongest identification yet with the man who confessed to blowing up the Federal Building in Oklahoma City in 1995, killing 168 people in retaliation for the FBI's "slaughter at Waco", Vidal described him as a "Kipling hero" with an "overdeveloped sense of justice" who did what he did because he was inflamed by the massacre, the FBI's subsequent cover-up, and the way it "had shredded the bill of rights and the constitution. He was the man who would be king."

Vidal, whom McVeigh asked to witness his execution in June after the pair corresponded for three years, insisted McVeigh did not actually carry out the bombing, and hinted he was now close to revealing the names of those who did.

more: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/0817-04.htm
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. McVeigh was a rightwing nut, but Gore doubted he did the bombing . . .
and Oklahoma looks like simply another "false flag" operation --

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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. And therein is one of the crucial, essential ingredients that pits moderates against him
Their contempt for the "loony Left," i.e. unsupportive of corporate culture orthodoxy = an unseemly embarrassment b/c it's a form of dire opposition to the entire collective belief structure/mythology which most are indoctrinated into from birth on.
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. That's not "praise".
That's more like "literary criticism", if you can understand the analogy.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #23
31. I like Vidal, but I strongly disagree on this one....
the right wing-nuts who threaten government are often either manipulated by right-wing corporate interests (as in the case of the town hall disruptors) or they are manipulated by uber wealthy far right Libertarian-types who would usher in a fuedal society where one's "democratic representation" is measured by one's wealth, and the government gets nothing.

McVeigh bombed the Federal Building in retaliation for the WACO massacre. Although innocent people died at WACO, people should be asking what was so dangerous about this Christian cult:

http://www.watchman.org/cults/seven.htm
(linking to this website does not mean that I endorse it)

The Second Seal
The key to the second seal (Revelation 6:3-4) is found in Zechariah 1:8-11 and 6:1-8 and is also depicted in such places as Ezekiel 9 and Revelation 7 and Revelation 19. In this seal, God makes war with man and kills all who do not have the seal (those who have rejected Koresh's message) (Revelation 7 and Ezekiel 9).

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Gwendolyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #9
33. He wrote an article for Vanity Fair. It was an interesting take - still is, actually.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
27. Like many others, Gore doubts that McVeigh did the bombing . . .


EDINBURGH (Reuters) - Author Gore Vidal promised Thursday to make
another revelation on the Oklahoma City bombing case which he says
may suggest executed convict Timothy McVeigh (news - web sites) did
not detonate the bomb that killed 168 people.

Vidal, one of contemporary America's harshest critics, published an
article last week in Vanity Fair magazine on the killer who, along
with his motives, remains one of the great enigmas of modern times.
There is more to come, he says.

``There's a researcher out there -- I used him a great deal for this
(Vanity Fair) piece and I'm using him some more,'' Vidal told an
audience at Britain's Edinburgh Book Festival.

The American writer, who maintained a three-year correspondence with
the bomber, said the researcher had unearthed evidence which
contradicted McVeigh's insistence he acted alone on the day of the
bombing.

``I'm about to drop another shoe -- (the researcher) knows at least
five of the people who were involved in the making of the bomb and
its detonation,'' Vidal said. ``It may well be that McVeigh didn't do
it.''

http://www.gnosticliberationfront.com/timothy_mcveigh_p... Vidal promises


More and more it becomes obvious that our government/CIA has a stockpile of these patsies.


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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
6. Quote
"The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite." ~ Dr. Lawrence Britt
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
8. they are fascists
and it's not a broad brush, the label has been earned, for their ideology is fascist.
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DireStrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
25. Wow. He's tiresome.
Some good points, but he seems to be saying just about everything.

Mostly name dropping. "My great-grand-uncle invented math."
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
26. Nice piece. It is odd how readily we scorn those that tell the self-evident truth.
:kick: & R

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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. uh, maybe because it's not self-evident. the future never is.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-01-09 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. And yet, he's been proved correct with a consistency nearly equal
to how often the authoritarians are wrong. About everything. Every time.


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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
29.  (Murdoch's Times): Where am I? Home * Life & Style >Women>The Way We Live
Edited on Wed Sep-30-09 01:53 PM by Ghost Dog
America should leave Afghanistan, he says. “We’ve failed in every other aspect of our effort of conquering the Middle East or whatever you want to call it.” The “War on Terror” was “made up”, Vidal says. “The whole thing was PR, just like ‘weapons of mass destruction’... I don’t say there was a golden age, but there was an age of general intelligence. We had a watchdog, the media.” The media is too supine? “Would that it was. They’re busy preparing us for an Iranian war.” ... “Don’t ever make the mistake with people like me thinking we are looking for heroes. There aren’t any and if there were, they would be killed immediately. I’m never surprised by bad behaviour. I expect it.”

/... http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women...

:smoke:
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. He's 100% accurate in claiming the "war on(OF) terror" is "made up."
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Ghost Dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-30-09 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. War on Terror®
Yeah.

Sorry. I'm in extended Blade Runner mode tonight.
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iceman66 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-02-09 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
39. We will if Obama loses in 2012
We need AT LEAST two full Democratic terms to get the country back on the right track after the horror that was the Bush years!
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-02-09 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
40. ...
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