"It appears that the administration will NOT meet the deadline to close Gitmo" - Meet the Press,

[grahamhgreen]

Quoting David Gregory.

WTF!

Bush light (on steroids) - or will we ever see any real change?

Does Obama understand that all that ALL MEN are "endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights"?

[mike_c]

1. Obama has embraced Bush's wars-- he doesn't seem capable...

...of ending one of the greatest of the last administration's war crimes, either. Gitmo is a blight that stains every Americans' honor. There are no credible reasons at all-- NOT ONE-- for keeping it open, except lack of will to do the right thing.

[grahamhgreen]

2. He's also embraced the RW narratives - that we MUST do evil things to keep the 'good guys' safe.

IMHO

[blues90]

4. All Obama seems capable of is showing his face on TV every damn day

He is in constant campaign mode . He did say he was going to go over GW's signing statements line by line and turn the ones around that violate the constitution , I guess maybe that will happen next term like the change in insurance . Maybe he'll wait until another 5,000 soldiers and blown to bits before someone in his puffed up admin will realize we can't win in Afghanistan.

All this seems to be was all about making history and a campaign.

What's the rush to pass healthcare reform if it does not take place for 4 years down the road when people need it now. I guess that is a hope that is the carrot on the stick.

Now there is Iran once again just like clockwork in Oct soon to arrive.

Oh but he bailed out the very criminals who broke this country and now expects them not to wait for laws to control them to be passed (some fucking day) so they are on the honor system when they have no honor or conscience.

What about rolling back the tax breaks the wealthy get that GW handed them , Oh I forgot they contributed to his campaign fund can't do that.

Can't hold the BCF accountable for their crimes either , can't really seem to do much.

All I heard today was we need to keep on eye on the terrorists that we created and now the aim is Iran once again.

WE don't need terrorists from the outside we can die and starve right here with the corporations strangle hold just like the corporations murdered the people in the ME and everywhere else they found the need to rob and kill for their own interests. Same corps that shipped all the jobs away.

I wonder what the G20 came up with on more ways to screw the people. Man I bet they have our interests held close to their hearts.

[Orrex]

5. Has he done anything that meets your approval?

Or are you regretting the vote you cast in November?

[blues90]

8. Let me make it simple , NO .

I don't care about race or all that crap about what the right wing focus on like birthers and all the assorted idiots out there.

What really did bother me was the enormous grand stand in Denver just to accept the nomination . People all over this country are broke because of the last criminal admin , all the issues are due to money and the economy and everything tied to it yet he makes this sort of enormous expensive acceptance which pardon me does not show he is aware of the struggle many have been going through for quite some time. Just who benefitted from that? I guess one has to belong to the big club to understand that .

Since that day he has bailed out all who have had a hand in robbing this country , yes maybe it saved some jobs but then many others went right down the rabbit hole and continue to do so and who decides who kept the job and who did not . I haven't seen any jobs created just lost.

His tactics to get elected are not reflected in his policy. And it's not just him , he has only so much he can do but look at many of the people he picked for vital positions.

I did not vote for him and certainly not McCain. I am certain many who did vote for him now question why. I am not getting that from the TV media or right wing radio which I do not ever watch or listen too.

I really did expect Obama to pull out of the ME and get NOLA fixed for a start. I did not expect this admin to bailout the criminals , never entered my mind this would happen, not this way. Sorry he is not a liberal and I am, not that he ever claimed to be.

[Orrex]

9. Well, the world needs all-or-nothing curmudgeons, too.

Screw the logistics of reality. If Obama doesn't do everything I want right this very second, then he's exactly as bad as Bush.

[grahamhgreen]

14. Reality is he can close Gitmo tommorrow. That's the reality. The world would rejoice.

It would be to our countries benefit. The present policy is harmful to our fellow citizens.

[Orrex]

21. You're grandstanding.

[grahamhgreen]

24. Your attacking the messenger because your argument does not hold water.

[Orrex]

27. And you're tempting me to attack you for failing to use an apostrophe

Your basing your argument on idealism and the belief that it should trump the logistical realities affecting these cases.

[grahamhgreen]

34. Im typing on a iPhone! Show me mercy!

Yes I'm arguing that. I believe that is by far our best course of action.

How long should we hold people and torture them without charge or trial, by your estimation?

[Orrex]

35. Now that's a good point. (Not the part about the iPhone)

They should have been charged when (or shortly after) they were taken into custody. Since Bush failed to do that, they should now be charged as soon as possible.

And they should be tried as soon as possible. I think the sticking point hinges upon what we each consider "possible."


Torture is never acceptable under any circumstances.

[blues90]

26. That's not at all what I said .

I said he is not taking an approach that lends to well to what I feel is fair. I never said anyone could do it all right this very damn second and you know it or you are just one of those who like to bait people then come back with some swarmy ass remark which it appears you are.

I offered an honest answer without personal insult there's your reality check.

[Orrex]

28. By declaring that he's done nothing that meets your approval, you showed yourself to be a curmudgeon

If you'd rather he hadn't pulled the economy out of a nosedive or significantly repaired our international relationships (since these don't meet with your approval, by your own assertion), then I guess that's peachy.

[blues90]

31. Your entitled to you opinion

Yet to say he pulled this economy out of a nose dive or repaired our international relations is not a proven fact yet. It's far too early to tell what the affects of these actions will be in the long run.

That is all I have to say to you because what you have offered is still not conversation or debate but rather the same smart ass remarks I can get from any right wing freak . By your own assertion ,dig it ?

[Orrex]

32. If it makes you feel any better...

Yours are the same half-assed remarks I can get from any 17-year-old Kucinich supporter who hasn't actually looked into the matter.

[blues90]

38. yes it does , it makes me feel absolutely great . nt

[grahamhgreen]

18. I did support him. The guy owes me money. Or at least his change.

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. It is simpler than that Mike... we are an Empire

does not matter who is the President, there are certain things that an Empire requires.

Now we are also a declining Empire so we will see the end of this, the same way all other Empires have.

Oh and this has zip to do with honor.

[Orrex]

3. I heard a good answer to this on NPR on Friday

Not sure who the guest was, but it was somebody from within Obama's advisory circle.

During early meetings, when they first talked about closing Gitmo, they knew that a one-year deadline was unlikely, and that they were more likely to take an additional six months to accomplish it. The alternative (i.e., the Bush plan) was to close it at some undefined point in the future (i.e., never).

Sure, it would be great if Obama had closed Gitmo on the day of his inauguration, but reality sometimes intervenes. For instance, the Obama administration expected to find detailed casefiles on all of the 200+ detainees held at Gitmo, but it turns out that Bush maintained hardly any case records at all. This alone would make the process nightmarishly cumbersome, even ignoring the other real-world and practical obstacles.


For that matter, who cares what David Gregory says? Shouldn't he be fellating some minor GOP functionary?

[grahamhgreen]

6. Here's a good answer - "I have closed Gitmo and put the prisoners on trial"

[Orrex]

7. You're arguing that they should all be summarily released.

Kudos to you for your thorough grasp of the logistics of the situation.


While he's at it, Obama should also declare that all cars get 700 miles per gallon.

[grahamhgreen]

12. No, I'm arguing that they have inalienable rights, like the right to a fair and speedy trial,

You're arguing for something unconstitutional, immoral, unethical, and inhuman.

IMHO

[Romulox]

15. One thing is clear: it's fairly delusional to believe they can be brought to US soil and be denied

all the rights afforded by the Constitution. :wtf:

[Orrex]

19. Perhaps you should re-read what you wrote and what I wrote

I'm arguing that the logistics of reality necessarily influence one's options.

Additionally, I need you to define what you mean by "immoral, unethical, and inhuman" (though I applaud you for using the comma before "and"). Until you define those terms, I don't know how I can present my argument to you.

And "unconstitutional" might not be relevant, unless you propose that the U.S. Constitution applies equally to everyone everywhere.



You're arguing that they should stand trial. I pointed out that the case files for each detainee are, thanks to the Bush administration, poorly organized at best.

If the prisoners are immediately put on trial, then all of them will have to be found not guilty on the basis of a lack of evidence, since the administration isn't currently able to present that evidence.

Therefore, you're arguing that they should be released.

[csziggy]

10. NPR, All things Considered Friday

ROBERT SIEGEL, and MADELEINE BRAND, hosts with NINA TOTENBERG:

<SNIP>
TOTENBERG: Look, Guantanamo is a symbol of a lot of things, from the terror threat to compliance with international treaties and due process of law. And closing it has turned out to be harder than many people thought for a lot of reasons; some of them political, some of them not.

BRAND: Okay, Nina. Let's start with the not.

TOTENBERG: Well, the not is, for example, that the Obamaites thought that they would come into office and that there would be a file on each detainee, and that they could review those files with fresh eyes. Instead, in many cases, there were no files. They have been - the information wasn't centralized. It was all over the place so it took months to get the stuff in place just to review. I think you can lay the blame for that on the Bush administration, which - Lord knows - had plenty of time.

What is seen as the Obama administration's fault is that the White House let Congress get ahead of it on this; didn't brief Democrats, didn't have a plan in place before the White House announced the closing.

<SNIP>

TOTENBERG: Well, I talked today to lots of folks in the administration and they think this is just a cheap shot. Obama ran promising to close Gitmo. And as one White House source told me, everyone who is sitting in that room, when we made this decision to close the base within a year, understood that we likely would not make the deadline. We might be six months late. But if we didn't set a deadline, I guarantee you, said this source, that we would have been six years late. That was the policy of the Bush administration, he said. We'll close Guantanamo sometime.

More: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=113217378

[Orrex]

11. Thank you--that was it exactly.

I forgot that Totenberg was the speaker.

[Romulox]

13. The people of Michigan have rebuffed the admin's attempts to shove Gitmo North down our throats. nt

[Tim01]

16. They need time to dissappear prisoners to other secret prisons. nt

[Barack_America]

17. You lost me at "Meet the Press".

If you're looking for honest political discussion, you should stop watching that show.

[grahamhgreen]

22. Stephanopolis said that's what the White House told him. 2 sources. I know, I want to hope, too.

[Barack_America]

25. Stephanopoulos takes interview questions from Hannity....

...and openly admits to doing so.

I also saw him post a link to buy Joe Wilson "You Lie" t-shirts on his twitter.

Neither he nor Gregory are credible sources.

[Odin2005]

20. The is because idiots in Congress screamed about bringing the detainees to the mainland.

fucking obstructionists!

[grahamhgreen]

23. Yes it is. It's time for him to stand up to the birthers, loonies, corporations, and war whores.

[Orrex]

29. Hell yeah! He should wave his magic wand and make it so.

Let's hear it for the unitary executive power!

[grahamhgreen]

36. He should do what we the people elected him to do - to effect positive change -

the platform he was elected on by the majority of the people of the USA - far from acting as a unitary executive.

Additionally, he is the commander in chief and as such can close the military facility at will.

[Hippo_Tron]

30. It's not his fault that Congress is a bunch of paranoid idiots

Bush light would be to attach a signing statement to a bill funding GITMO that says that he can use the money to move the prisoners to the US.

[HughMoran]

37. Stupidest commentary ever

Perhaps you also think he's a fascist?

lol

[grahamhgreen]

39. Define fascism.

[HughMoran]

40. Define ignore

[grahamhgreen]

48. No, he is not a fascist.

[Raineyb]

41. Duh! The congress refused to fund the closing of GITMO

What did you expect?

[TheKentuckian]

42. Eight years of Bush may have done the most damage to our basic idea of civics

I see why doesnt't Obama just do ____________, a thousand times a day and only about one is legal, another 900 or so that are willfully ignorant of any logistical realities, and another 99 that have zero support save from a fringy few.

Personally, I think this would have already happened if we had a federal supermax in a red state like MS or UT but CO is the only federal option and the others are run by states.

[ecstatic]

43. Do you know WHY there is a delay?

As far as your question: "will we ever see any real change?"

Yes, we're witnessing it. Obama could have easily forced the closing in order to please people like you--despite the facts and the consequences that might ensue as a result.

[Orrex]

51. If you read any of the thread from last night...

You'd see that the constraints of reality have no business infringing upon the demands of idealism.

[spanone]

44. another post shitting on President Obama....

by quoting the fuckwad david gregory

[grahamhgreen]

45. So how long should these people be held without trial or charges? VIDEO LINK TO NEW AP STORY

I'm not 'shitting on him'.

I'm trying to get us to persuade him to make the best decisions for all of us. LIKE HE TOLD US TO DO!

AP STORY - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x379269

[librechik]

46. so they spend weeks screaming about how Obama's going to close it

so be very afraid--now they scream because he is failing to close it?

These people can never be satisfied. They are just out to destroy.

[whoneedstickets]

47. I'll accept progress and process....and resist the urge for instant gratification.

If effort is sustained, outcomes will result....eventually. Which is damn sooner than never.

[Cha]

50. Well, you are more wise than the

instant gratification junkies, whoneedstickets.

There is effort and it will be sustained..thank you for those words.

[Mari333]

49. same old shit, eh. nt