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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 11:44 AM
Original message
Detroit's Beautiful, Horrible Decline
My heart sank when I saw this picture, of the Lee Plaza Hotel, in the current issue of TIME, dedicated to covering Detroit.



Once one of the most luxurious residential hotels in Detroit, Lee Plaza closed in the 1990s.

Others




Detroit's main train station, opened in 1913 has not been used since 1988.




Many of the city's Catholic schools have been closed, though the churches they are affiliated with remain active.



This spectacular Spanish Gothic theater, built in 1928, was closed in the 1970s.


More in this group

http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1882089_1...

that were taken by two French photographers.


http://www.marchandmeffre.com /

Another series of TIME's own photos

http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1864272,0...

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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
1. Yes, we are in trouble and too many of our leaders look at Wall Street instead of Main Street.
Edited on Sun Sep-27-09 11:51 AM by Bonobo
Add to that the ruins of New Orleans, the hole in Manhattan, the Minnesota bridge collapse, etc.



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Liberal_in_LA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. 2nd
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lpbk2713 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
2. What a dump.



And what a pity.

Not that long ago these places were really something to be proud of.


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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #2
67. What an awful thing to say.
I can find images just as bad in North Philly or New York, but its not a national pastime to decry what a "dump" those places are, so you'll never see them in TIME magazine.
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ensho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
3. really sad to see such beauty ruined
nt
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
50. Breaks my heart. :^(
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liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
4. Here's a good video showing some more of the decline...
which also shows the train station. This is heartbreaking. :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfnmCOUieLw

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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Good for Eminem
he is not just a rapper all wrapped in himself. I remember before the 2004 elections he had a very powerful "rap" about registering to vote.
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liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I'll never forget that (Mosh). It lifted me up in a dark hour.
Edited on Sun Sep-27-09 12:04 PM by liberalmuse
I think it's great that he's focused on the decline in his video. It really opens your eyes. I knew it was bad in Detroit, but not this bad. Some parts of Detroit are like the slums in a third world country. :cry:
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #8
52. "Third World Country." Remember when we mentioned this comparison
to New Orleans during Katrina?

What is wrong with us? Why do we spend so much money "rebuilding" Iraq while our own is dying?

There are suggestions downstream to tear all these ghost structures down and build something new. I wish that some of this could be restored, to remind us of older glory days.

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corpseratemedia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
6. economic Chernobyl
we're #1! (in collapse)

very sad to see..but what economic collapse looks like here, we all need to see what it looks like to know it.

The rw can blabber all it wants, but their blabber can't cover up the pictures.
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EmeraldCityGrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. America the Beautiful. God help us all. n/t
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
9. One of the more evocative subjects/headlines I've seen here in awhile...
Thanks for the links.
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Kablooie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
11. Wow. People better look out for zombies in that town. Perfect place for them.
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JonQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
12. Seems like with all these unemployed people
now would be a good time to start hiring them to tear down these slums and put up parks, libraries, schools. Hell even empty fields would be better.


Detroit is unlikely to regain their status as a car manufacturing center, start looking to diversify your economy and branch out before it's too late.
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blue_onyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #12
66. I think some of the buildings should be saved
As far as diversify our economy, we have been in recent years. Here are some examples of how Detroit, metro-Detroit, and Michigan have diversified:

Michigan and Detroit have become big players in the film industry. There are plans to open numerous production studios in the Detroit area, including the $146 million dollar Unity Studios in Allen Park, MI (just outside Detroit) and the 85 million dollar Detroit Center Studios, an digital animation and visual effects studio in Detroit.

http://www.thenewsherald.com/articles/2009/04/15/news/d...

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20090203/FREE/9020...

Detroit will also get the facility that will produce the Volt batteries. A123 Systems will also open at least one battery plant here and create up to the 14,000 jobs. There have been numerous other battery companies that have also announced plans to locate here.

http://abea-3dgni7.client.shareholder.com/releasedetail...

We have solar companies like Hemlock Semiconductor and Uni-Solar. A company called Mascoma announced in 2008 that they would open the country's only cellulose ethanol plant here. Energetx Composities LLC which makes wind turbines parts announced last month they will come to Michigan. NextEnergy is looking to locate a wind turbine testing center in Detroit
http://detnews.com/article/20090910/BIZ/909100355/1001/...

Clairvoyant Energy and Xtreme Power are planning to invest $725 million to redevelop an old Ford plant into a "renewable energy park."

http://www.wxyz.com/news/story/New-Life-New-Jobs-Greene...

These are just some of the green energy companies that have chosen to come to MI and Detroit.

Michigan was recently ranked 10th for green energy jobs but the data was from prior to 2007. Most of the economic developments I mentioned have come in 2008 and 2009 so Michigan's position in the green energy industry has probably improved.

"The state ranks third in clean technology patents and has attracted $55 million in clean technology venture capital in just the past three years."

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090611/BIZ/906110367/1...

Green energy will be a huge part of the country's future economy and MI/Detroit are well positioned to take advantage of this growing industry. Our area has gone through tough times before, such as in the 80s when the unemployment was even higher than it is now, and has survived.
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
13. If I had the money, I'd tear all of it down and rebuild it...
All bright, shiny and new
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
14. Detroit, coming to a city near you
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Hawkowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
15. Rome
Detroit is merely the first American city to exhibit modern day ruins. With our stupendously gigantic military expenditures financed by the Chinese at the expense of our domestic industries (the old guns vs. butter) we our bankrupting ourselves.

Over the coming decade we will see many, many more modern day ruins. All empires come to an end. America's time has come because we have run out of money and the plutocracy has turned into a classic third world kleptocracy.
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
16. Thank you for posting!
I spent some time riding through parts of Detroit and Flint in the 1990's. It is quite an awesome thing to see firsthand the remnants of a once great American city in rapid decline.
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FirstLight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
17. Looks like a great place for URBAN AGRICULTURE!
why can't we transform the decay of the industrial complex into our Green Future?
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #17
33. Way too many toxins in the soil in many areas
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The Clipped Eagle Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
18. Evidence of Northern Decay
This is what's been going on in the North ever since the 70's. I've been seeing it throughout the time I've lived up here, a long, proud history of liberalism and abolitionism being lost and forgotten, as people continue to leave for the South, which conversely has been experiencing prosperity and success since that time. Yes, it may still be a hotbed of conservatism and hostility towards education and liberalism...but who wants to live in a colder region, right? Especially one where the state leaders' only answer to every problem is "find something else to tax!"

What's happening in Detroit is happening in a lot of places up here, especially in cities like Buffalo and Syracuse. More and more people leave, and the Republicans in the South gain more and more constituents.

THIS is why the Obama administration will fail. I don't know how a Northerner like myself got into the White House, but it was a fluke that will end soon enough. Enjoy the upcoming Mike Huckabee administration.



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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Ha ha ha! Aren't you precious!
"Mike Huckabee Administration" -- Oh, that is priceless! :rofl:
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The Clipped Eagle Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Go ahead and laugh now...
You may laugh now, but mark my words, it will happen. I remember back in 98, I was talking about Southern conservative dominance, and pretty much guaranteed that George W Bush would be elected as President. Flash forward to 2000, and it happened.

America is all about the South now, and Mike Huckabee is the most popular Southern conservative in the polls, it seems.
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Ha ha. The South can't wag the rest of the dog anymore.
Edited on Sun Sep-27-09 12:49 PM by Arugula Latte


The Republicans have dominance in the South -- at the expense of the rest of the country. The Southern Strategy worked for awhile, but not it is an albatross around your necks. It's pulling you under. *Blub* Remember, New England and California and the Northwest used to be solidly Republican. How'd that shift to blue work out for you?

Oh, and if you didn't notice, states like North Carolina and Virginia are now blue. Part of the reason is that more educated people have moved there, and they're not stupid enough to vote against their own interests by voting for Repukes.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #24
41. If the economic situation doesn't turn around & if Obama's admin is seen
as a failure, I think a Huckabee presidency is well within the scope of the possible.

Furthermore, I think he's being positioned for it; thus, e.g., his many Jon Stewart spots, where he comes across all nicey-nice with a sense of humor, not scary at all.

Though he represents the forces of reaction & fascism.

You gotta ask why 2008, in the midst of a serious recession, was considered a great year to nominate the first black candidate.

apparently you're not cynical enough yet.
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #41
85. Thank you for you reasonable comments, as always
but, please, explain to me - apparently I am not cynical enough and am disturbed by banning the one who started this line of discussion - why was 2008 considered a great year for the black candidate?

Because many thought that he would be the only one who could clear it, or because many hoped to blame him for not being back in 2006 and dash any hopes for another non-white man in this century?

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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #85
96. "reasonable comments, as always" - lol. apparently you've forgotten our history,
'question everything'.
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #96
98. Don't know which history you are talking
I remember once asking about Social Security and you provided a comprehensive analysis.

I guess I do not keep a little black notebook with all the people with whom I disagree or even clash. What a miserable life this would be.

On occasions, when I offered stars to fellow DUers I sometimes wondered whether any of them were former "nemesis" and trusted their honesty not to ask for one if they were. Of course the ones who put me on "ignore" would not even see my offer.

Pity. I asked you a question and you chose to spit instead of providing an answer.

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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #24
92. Is it just me or do the graphs marking the "Northeast," "Midwest," and "West"...
look like "the finger?"

:rofl:

Hey, Repubs...look at what these US regions think of you!
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PSPS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. "America is all about the South now"
HAHA! Yeah, ok, whatever. Huckabee? snork. I'll bet you like pizza on your fishing trips, don't you?
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The Clipped Eagle Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Ummm...
I don't go fishing. I'm just a disillusioned Northern Liberal who's just talking about what he sees.
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Demographics are working against your party, pal.
Your denial is cute, though.
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The Clipped Eagle Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Well...
Maybe some Republicanism up here in NY would be good, in our case. Like I said in another post, there's too much government and too much taxation for even a Democrat like me to handle. Maybe the change in view in this region will lead to a reduction in that.
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The Clipped Eagle Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Oops...
Didn't get that chart for a second.
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #31
56. We already have a Repub gov here in CT. Please, she has done nothing to help the cities here
like Waterbury and Bridgeport. The poor is left to take care of the cities while everyone moves out and the rich get richer. Contrast it to Westport, New Canaan, and Greenwich . Infrastructure and decay came at the expense of spending money on wars and tax breaks for the wealthy. Too much taxation? Laughable...we have the lowest tax rates in years. During Ike's time, there were higher taxes and he helped set in motion many highways we use today. Republicans of today care about making the wealthy happy, no one else.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #25
86. It shall rise again, I hear...
...on the occasional cracked and peeling bumper sticker.
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Chipper Chat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #21
35. Since you know more than Merlin:
Will Michelle Bachmann become Huckabee's Secretary of State?
Glenn BecKKK be his chief of staff?
Rush Limbaugh become his Press Secretary?
John Bolton become Secretary of War, er, I mean Defense?
Grover Norquist become Sec. of the Treasury?
And of course his Vice-President pick? Why, SEAN HANNITY of course.
*
Yes, by all means let's elect Huckabee.
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. OMFG! THE HORROR!!! Can you imagine? n/t
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #21
42. you know what? i very much agree with you. i think huckabee is being positioned
to take the office next. i'm not liking what i see shaping up.
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #21
47. The northern migration is DILUTING the south.
Don't you think?
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Carni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #47
75. I totally agree
I am a relocated northerner in the south (well not the deep south)and believe me I am not the only one. Our kind have been flocking south in drives over the last three or four years.

I dare say we are screwing up the GOP's demographics in a big way! lol
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tilsammans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #21
97. Uh, hello, Bush was NOT elected. n/t
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #21
99. Just a reminder about bu$h
He wasn't actually *elected* President-- He lost the popular vote, and had his friends on the Supreme Court (some of who were appointed by his father, directly or indirectly) step in and stop the counting of votes when it appeared that he was going to lose his brother's state in a fair vote count.
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EmeraldCityGrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. There are a lot of things YOU don't understand and
you will undoubtably continue to be "surprised." Enjoy many years of pondering "the fluke."
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The Clipped Eagle Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Ok, tell me what I don't understand?
Because what I see up here in NY state is constant unemployment, reports on the news of factories moving someplace to the south, and everywhere I look, Southern cities get new Pro Sports teams. Even Charlotte immediately got a new NBA team right after the Hornets left.

So forgive me if I have trouble understanding things, when it looks like New Orleans will be rebuilt much faster than Buffalo or Syracuse. I just don't see how anyone who is from the South, or the west, could ever stand a chance of becoming president.
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EmeraldCityGrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #26
37. The first problem I have with your argument
is that as workers migrate south, the automatically become Rebublicans. Changing ones time zone does not go hand in hand
with changing ones politics.

I'll offer the following chart for ranking the best cities for job growth.http://www.newgeography.com/content/00741-all-cities-ra...

Notice how TX. dominates with eight out of the top 20. Could that have something to do with the last eight years of the Bush economy? Blue States suffered the most under
the Bush economy, but that is about to change.

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The Clipped Eagle Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. I'm not implying their politics change...
But I still think they have a long way to go against the conservative establishment in the south.

And your chart only confirms what I first assumed about Bush when he first got into office. That he would focus mostly on the South, especially Texas. Once Obama is voted out in 2012, (I don't want him to be, but that's what's going to happen) the next republican will go back to that.

Remember Roger and Me? When Regan took a bunch of laid off Flint auto workers to Pizza? His first advice to them...Move to Texas.
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EmeraldCityGrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. I won't confuse you with the facts,
your mind is made up. Maybe you should move to TX. and become a Republican. Being clairvoyant and all that would be your best bet.
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #38
84. I have to disagree, I have recently seen and heard and read this past week
some high praise for this administration from umm some I would have bawked at ever reciting such...I would have to say those on the far right have hurt thier party enough that the real conserves no longer wish to claim association with the repugs..interesting turn of events here in deep red neck texas terrority....wow...who would have thought..
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #37
90. It's not that they become Republicans, but that the only Democrats
they can find are fucking Blue Dogs, which do NOTHING to change the balance of power. It will take a generation for the migrant northerners to come to positions of power and effect REAL change in the South. Until then, it's still Republicans and fucking Blue Dogs, take your pick.
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Neecy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #26
78. Gee, upstate NY was shitty during the Bush years, too
Massive tax cuts for the wealthy, federal funds for infrastructure nonexistent, tax breaks for wealthy corporations to outsource overseas - yeah, Bush and the GOP were soooooo good to upstate New York.

Yeah, I'd really love to move my kids to the South for that fabulous bottom-10/nationally school system, because of those low low taxes. Heaven!

Go back to freep-land.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. northern cities like N'awlins...?
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The Clipped Eagle Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Oh, don't worry
Believe me, New Orleans will be rebuilt much quicker than Detroit, or Syracuse, or Buffalo, like I said in another reply.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #18
30. lulz! It's nice that you play wth us at any rate. Enjoy your visit!
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #18
46. A northerner got elected, thankfully.
And things are improving slowly in pockets all around Michigan. No thanks to the south and the assholes they send to Congress.

Obama will succeed, sorry to break it to ya. "Huckabee administration" indeed! Me thinks your colors peek through friend. Bye now.

Julie
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #18
49. Northerners who move to the South don't suddenly become dumb Republican-voting hicks.
This migration has been steadily turning the South purple. Huckabee can't even win the GOP primary, so your political analysis is lacking.
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #18
53. It is a change of our economy that, sadly, the leaders of Detroit
and, perhaps, Buffalo and Syracuse refused to see.

It appears that everyone is now talking about Detroit, even on CBS Sunday Morning - actually about Ford.

Funny how in the 90s GM made what the consumers wanted: behemoth of cars, but not in the late 70s and 80s when many wanted efficient small cars and migrated in droves to purchase Japanese. Myself included.

And Toyota and Honda and others came to the non-unionized South to build cars and, apparently, the employees of Toyota and Honda are not complaining.

As we moved from a manufacturing-based economy to a service one, the old guards of the unions became irrelevant to the new economy, while saddled the big Three.

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1gobluedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #53
62. Actually many of the employees at Toyota and Honda ARE complaining
I have a friend who works for the UAW; both of those companies are actively and regularly engaged in union busting.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #18
95. Huckabee can pick huckleberries with Ms. Palin.
Edited on Mon Sep-28-09 04:29 PM by Deja Q
I was not against you as I like a good, real, debate, but what did it for most people was being too specific on one issue. Not the usual north/south tripe either...
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
20. I saw that issue of Time at the bookstore yesterday, left me shocked and saddened.
:cry:
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leeroysphitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #20
94. Did you buy the issue or simply browse?
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stuball111 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
34. Like a Vampire...
The life being sucked out of this country...when I first moved here, I was shocked at the decay...it was as if all the money was being sucked out of the land for something else, in a far away land, or bank.
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demodonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
39. Looks like photos from the Titanic, in a sad, eerie sort of way. nt
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
43. "the fabulous ruins of detroit" from a native. time = johnny-come-lately.
http://www.detroityes.com/home.htm


capitalism = destructive & wasteful.
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #43
55. Sad and Depressing
Perhaps we need this focus on Detroit - by TIME, CBS Sunday Morning, even the WSJ - for someone to take notice and to at least slow this destruction. Perhaps it is time for other cities, as mentioned above - Buffalo and Syracuse - to realize that Detroit is not an isolated case.
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RockaFowler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #43
80. This makes me so sad
I used to live in one of the Northern Suburbs and we used to go to Hudson's all the time. My Aunt Lillian worked there up until she retired and moved to Florida. That store was still beautiful in the 80's. Words cannot express what I'm feeling right now. So very sad.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
44. That is fascinating. From many of the photos, it appears that many
who occupied those buildings simply walked out one day and never returned--furniture, pianos, file cabinets, desks, medical equipment all left behind, as if the people who left them were in a hurry. Very eerie.
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Kievan Rus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #44
61. Reminds me of Chernobyl in 1986
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Liberal_in_LA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #44
89. yeah, that's what's weird about the photos
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Libertas1776 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
45. What you are seeing are the battle scars
of 50 years of economic warfare against the city of Detroit.
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philly_bob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
48. Grew up in Detroit in the 50's. Good education, prosperous economy.
Edited on Sun Sep-27-09 06:41 PM by philly_bob
Two plausible explanations for decline:

(1) the transportation and design strategy of the car companies -- the "car guys" who killed electric and public transit, ignored oil situation

(2) the post-Reagan nationwide decline of unions

I tend to think it's the second explanation. When you have powerful unions, the city services (libraries, rec centers, sanitation, etc.) work well, there are good public schools all the way to University, there's a check-and-balance on Wall Street and bosses' power, there's a powerful interest group supporting good government and regulation.

Sure, sometimes unions can get too powerful and corrupt (see 60's Teamsters), but it would take ten years of union victories to undo the post-Reagan damage to unions.

Anyway, here's to the East Side Detroit of my childhood. My parents were both schoolteachers (in the union). Our next door neighbor worked on the assembly line, and when there were layoffs he'd stay home and tinker with his boat. The rich and the poor were abstractions; everybody was in a great middle (or working) class.

I was just in Detroit this summer. It's grim -- but there's a lot going on there musically and culturally.
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #48
57. The decline in the union did not happen in a vaccuum
We moved from a manufacturing-based society - where even a high school dropout could got a decent job to provide for a family, to join the middle class - into a service based economy where too many live on min wage, or a little bit above it.

Henry Ford paid his workers well because he wanted them to be able to afford what they were making (the only good think that I can say about Henry Ford) while today, Walmart employees cannot afford to purchase items there.

And, yes, it was during the Reagan years that Wall Street bankers and lawyers who specialized in mergers and acquisitions got to generate millions for themselves and their companies, while good, decent jobs disappeared. It was during the 80s when we started increasing the gaps between the top 1% of income and the rest of us.

And yet, both the owners and the unions should have realized the change in the landscape, the migration of many consumers to more efficient Japanese cars and to make the changes.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #57
91. I think your assessment is close, but a little off -
Ford paid his workers well because he wanted them to be able to afford what they were making. WalMart pays its workers only well enough so they are FORCED to shop there - they can't go more upscale even if they want to.

Other than that, spot on.
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #48
70. Detroit has an income tax
2% on residents, 1% on non-residents (I think)

Why in the hell would you live in Detroit and pay extra for that right?

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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #70
71. Does Chicago have a city income tax? Because the parts that abut Gary are JUST like Detroit.
I mean IDENTICAL. Gary, Indiana appears to be much worse than many parts of Detroit (where's the Gary opera house, e.g.)

But Chicagoans brag on their city night and day, like nobody's every been there! :hi: :eyes:
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #71
73. No city income tax in Chicago
It is stupid to have one when one could just go over the border to escape it. But we dop have too high sales tax and people are going over the border to escape that.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #73
74. So that makes you less ashamed that some parts of your city look like WW3?
:eyes:
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #74
77. Don'y you see that an ncome tax makes a place less likely to attract people and business?
NY gets away with it. NY has things that make it more attractive to live and do business. Detroit lacks those things.

There are bad parts of Chicago. Some mere miles from where I sit. But comparing that to Murder City? Please.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #77
79. A lax tax environment hasn't attracted much but squalor to Chi-towns SE side.
Edited on Mon Sep-28-09 12:27 PM by Romulox
:shrug:
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #70
88. So does Philly.
4% residents (even if you don't work in Philly)

3.5% non residents

http://www.phila.gov/revenue/Wage_Tax.html


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ellie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
51. It's a goddamn shame
I love Detroit. I think the people there are down-to-earth and nice. I lived in the area for a couple of years and my husband is currently attending Wayne State as a graduate student. He commutes up from Toledo now.
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
54. What upsets me is that all the "concern" from the media comes when
it is far too late to draw attention to a crisis.

I appraised the breakdown of people's dreams (their houses when they were foreclosed upon) until I couldn't take it anymore.

Honestly, it pisses me off now that Time "cares"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #54
83. Obviously, Detroit is the canary
In 2006, when the housing market and the stock market were going up many did not pay attention to a place that for years was associated with riots and white flights and even with the scaling down of the American industry. After all (even though they do not believe in evolution) it is the surviving of the fittest.

I don't think it is too late. I hope it is not too late. It is clear that our cities are decaying and the infrastructure is decaying and we should be glad that we now have a government - but for how long? - that realizes the need to inject funds into these areas to save them.

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live love laugh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
58. I was there a few years ago. I was shocked. It's a ghost town. nt
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blue_onyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
59. I believe Detroit can be revived.
All it takes is someone with the vision and the ability to push bold change in the city. Many of the run down buildings can and should be saved. There have been some recent successes. The Fort Shelby and Book Cadillac hotels were completely renovated. Detroit may never be a big as it once was but that doesn't mean it can't be just a good.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #59
82. Right Now, You're Seeing Artists and Enterpreneurs Move In
And buying outrageously cheap homes in homes of creating a new community. If they are successful, Detroit will come back in about 10-15 years and we'll all wish we'd bought in when we had the chance.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-27-09 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
60. Lazy journalism from a magazine and an industry that are themselves moribund.
Unrec.
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1gobluedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
63. Americans bailed on Detroit ages ago..
After union workers fought, bled, and died to give them most of the benefits they enjoy today whether they're in a union or not. What has happened in Detroit is despicable; I'm glad people are finally seeing it.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #63
65. The Birthplace of the Middle Class
Arsenal of Democracy, as well -- Detroit.
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #65
76. Well, like the poster said, America bailed on that a long time ago.
And seems to be just realizing it.

Oh well, sucks for us.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
64. there are beautiful old buildings all over this country, that are falling down in disrepair
Edited on Mon Sep-28-09 08:55 AM by SoCalDem
and they are irreplaceable. These beautiful structures were built in a time when true craftsmanship mattered.

here's a beautiful old one in Gary



and another one in Gary

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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
68. It's funny that they decide to cover this now...
...when many of Detroit's old abandoned buildings are actually being renovated.

How convenient for TIME that they forgot to leave out stories like the Book Cadillac, which just underwent $200 million in renovations.

http://www.bookcadillacwestin.com /
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #68
69. It's a PR stunt by a Dentist-Office-Grade magazine. nt
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
72. There are buildings and places like those above in every city, no matter what size. This country has
little respect for our history and preservation of older buildings isn't something most people will do. Every year the National Trust lists the most endangered historic buildings and sites in the country. We lose about 2 out of 3.
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dembotoz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
81. soooooo--do we rehab or start over.
those building don't exactly look green.
I love old buildings,
I love history.

but sometimes.......

a money pit just needs to be torn down.
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #81
87. The train depot and Lee Plaza should be torn down.
Their main problem to begin with is they are large, isolated structures removed from downtown.

Sometimes a structure, now matter how grandly built, just doesn't work. Those are two examples.
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MidwestRick Donating Member (604 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
93. Why'd they leave out...
...the Foxtown area? Detroit has always had good and bad areas within the city limits. Unfortunately, it seems only the bad are ever carried by the major media.
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