one of the students in our school is getting expelled because he had a laser pen...saying its a weap

[greenbriar]

weapon



I don't get it


granted, he is not one of my students so I don't know if there were other discipline issues before, but I think this is a bit extreme



I have his older brother and really enjoy the insights and discussion points he brings to the class



I understand the 0 tolerance policy and know it is for my safety as well as the students but come on

a Laser...a weapon?

how?

[Dreamer Tatum]

1. Kids like to point them in peoples' eyes

Which is dangerous.

[MadHound]

2. Blindness,

Shine that into somebody's eye and you can blind them pretty quick.

[greenbriar]

3. I can understand that, but I don't think he was doing that

from what I understand he had it in his pocket and took it out to show it off

you know how 6th graders are

[MadHound]

5. Sorry, but in this age of school madness

Where kids shoot kids, kids bully kids, etc. etc., a school simply can't assume or think on these issues. They don't have the luxury of deciding matters on a case by case basis. That sort of attitude now winds up either in tragedy, a lawsuit or both. That is why they make these strict blanket rules.

Hell, thirty years ago kids brought their guns to school on the racks in their pickup trucks and most every boy carried some sort of pocket knife. Different era, different times and schools have become a stricter place because of it.

[greenbriar]

6. I know I was telling my kids that the other day when we were tallking about the 2nd amendment

they were surprised to learn I have my own pistol




I just hate to lose a student like this. Because of the younger brother getting expelled, we will probably lose the older brother and I really enjoy him in my classroom

[BuyingThyme]

17. Shit.

Do they still allow pencils?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

44. That really depends on the power.

The $5 laser pointers are not much of a risk and the damage is not instantaneous.
Take it away and discipline as needed, expulsion is not called for.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. If you point it at eyes, it blinds

I am not sure I'd call it one, but that is the reason.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

45. Eventually

[MrModerate]

7. Zero tolerance equals zero intelligence. It's instituted by low-wattage administrators . . .

Terrified that students will behave in unpredictable ways. Excuse me, but young humans sometimes behave in unpredictable ways and it almost never means that they have homicidal intent. Experienced adults are supposed to make reasoned distinctions that young people haven't learned yet.

Zero tolerance also teaches students that judgment is irrelevant and that only rules (often broadly and clumsily drawn up) apply. That's hardly helpful in preparing them for the ambiguities and constant demand for judgment that characterize adult life. Another lesson Zero tolerance teaches young people is that adults are morons with no more sense than a rock. That also hardly advances successful pedagogy.

Another poster suggested that school officials don't have the luxury of looking at these incidents on a case-by-case basis, and I couldn't disagree more. They don't have the luxury of damaging a student's educational career by pretending that their drawn-up-in-a-panic rules genuinely apply to all situations.

And by the way . . . while laser pointers can cause eye injury and should never be misused (err . . . the student wasn't misusing it, I believe?) the likelihood of injury is very small. Another case of a kneejerk response to something in the news instead of actually understanding the reality of the hazard.

[Common Sense Party]

12. Most laser pointers are relatively harmless.

The green ones imported from China are the dangerous ones.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=can-a-pocket-laser-damage

[greenbriar]

13. I really doubt this was one of those

these particular kids have it pretty rough

Mom is a single parent with like 5 kids.

My 8th grader is the oldest and he watches his brothers and sisters after school till they go to bed. His little sister is 8 months old

[Mariana]

15. Great. So now the kid gets to feel guilty

for his mom and siblings being put under even more stress than they're already living with.

[greenbriar]

18. I really feel for this kid

and I do NOT want to lose my student over this but if the kid gets shipped off to another school it is likely that mom will move both boys

I am sad

[Odin2005]

8. Expulsion is way over the top, but those lasers could be used by bullies to torment others.

[MrModerate]

27. As they could use plastic cutlery from the cafeteria, a used toilet roll . . .

Or a threatening tone of voice. Naaah, that one's not going to fly.

[greenbriar]

28. the hearing officer could refuse

and put him back in our school

I kind of hope that happens

[old mark]

9. Many - maybe most - schools ban laser pointers. Expelling someone is

over the top, but school administrators were never noted for common sense. I hope the student does well elsewhere - maybe better off.

mark

[greenbriar]

10. Our principal is new to the middle school mentality

he came from an elementary background


I personally don't know the 6th grader but if his is anything like his brother he should be an amazing kid

[Mariana]

14. I hope so too, but I wouldnt expect it

now that it's been made PERFECTLY clear to him that schools are run by idiots.

[old mark]

26. My mother was a high school librarian, my MIL a college professor,

my sister a career grade school teacher, a SIL teaches in a community college, and a BIL teaches at a performing arts high school in NYC. I am always amazed at what they put up with from the school districts/administrators.

Good luck and good wishes to all teachers here, and everywhere.

mark

[proud2BlibKansan]

42. I have been teaching for 30 years and can count the good administrators on a couple fingers

Everyone hears about bad teachers but we don't talk about bad principals or bad superintendents.

[MrModerate]

53. For what it's worth, as I cruise the news sites, the papers, and places like DU . . .

Mostly I hear about moronic or martinet administrators.

Not that this is likely to make you feel better, but my impression from the media is that teachers on the whole are seen as the hard-slogging footsoldiers and the administrators as the inept, out-of-touch, cowardly goniffs.

[Trillo]

11. The one thing that expulsion effectively teaches, the major or macro lesson,

is how to expel.

If only schools could teach cooperation as efficiently as they teach hatred, human society might heal after a century or so.

[proud2BlibKansan]

16. There was a riot in my school today. I wish we had enforced discipline like this.

Count your blessings.

[Common Sense Party]

19. A riot? A real riot? Over what?

How did it start? How bad did it get? How was it ended?

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. Started with a food fight at lunch

Two 8th graders. And it just escalated. It was a mess. Kids were running and screaming and threatening each other. They also were calling their parents on their cell phones and a bunch of parents were running up to school to take their kids home. One parent cussed me out when I opened the door to let her in because she had been standing there "banging on the fucking door".

The principal was out of the building. We called security. They came and spent an hour calming the kids down. The principal came back and was mad that we called security.

Wed a teacher's purse was stolen. She found it but her car keys were missing. Yesterday her car was stolen.

I would love to work in a building where kids were held accountable.

[greenbriar]

23. Wow I am sorry you had to go through that

I appreciate the hard line

I just think in this case it is a bit much...unless there are more issues than I know of and it is possible as he is not my student

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. I am traveling to two schools this year

One is outstanding and the other is a pit. It's quite a contrast.

[greenbriar]

25. that makes for a long day doesn't it

is this by choice or by budget?

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. Budget

My day isn't any longer. I am in one school for 2 hours and the other for the rest of the day.

[MrModerate]

29. This is terrible. My sympathies. However, it doesn't have anything to do . . .

with the case under discussion. "Held accountable" to rigid, mindless rules is more likely to result in riot than applying a little sense to the situation. By your own admission, the situation you're reporting is much more complex than simple accountability.

[greenbriar]

20. I am usually glad that my school takes a hard line on discipline

I just don't agree with this one

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. Count your blessings

Too much discipline is better than none.

[MrModerate]

30. On balance, maybe so . . . but that doesn't make stupid discipline . . .

Or lack of jugment any better.

[Mariana]

33. This isn't discipline. This is hurting a kid for no good reason.

Expulsion for a toy? Please.

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. It's discipline because I am sure the kid knew he wasn't supposed to bring this laser pen to school

Sure it's an extreme punishment, but a rule was broken and the consequence is being applied. That's discipline.

[armyowalgreens]

51. Are you seriously a teacher?

The kid brought a fucking laser pen to school and he is being kicked out.

[armyowalgreens]

36. ugh. Zero tolerance doesn't work. Being a teacher, you should know that.

[proud2BlibKansan]

41. It's better than doing nothing

and letting the kids run the school.

[armyowalgreens]

50. What a shitty excuse.

"It's better than nothing"- Did I say that it wasn't?

That doesn't mean that it isn't all but worthless.

[Mariana]

32. Does your school's rule book specifically list laser pointers

as "weapons" and make it clear that bringing one to school will lead to expulsion?

I'm just curious. I checked my daughter's school handbook and it does list some specific weapons as well as prohibiting weapons in general. A laser pointer is not among them. I'd be suing, I think, if it were my kid, unless pointers had been listed as weapons in the handbook. Laser pointers just aren't weapons, any more than pencils or shoestrings are.

[greenbriar]

34. good question I am not sure

I will check it out

[proud2BlibKansan]

43. Check the state statutes

They could be banned by state law rather than district policy.

[Dorian Gray]

35. Ask the principal why

then let us know. It's ridiculous.

[Lagomorph]

37. Bullshit, they're cat toys.

[hayu_lol]

38. The unasked question here is...

does a 6th grader NEED a laser pointer at school?

It is, when shown around as this 6th grader seemed to be doing, a disruptive thing to do. 6th graders have a penchant for bringing things to school to show to friends. Some of these 'things' cause problems.

[pipi_k]

46. another question I didn't see asked

(hope I didn't miss it if it was)...

How did anyone KNOW it was a laser pen unless the kid was using it in a manner that called attention to it?


If he was using it as a pen, then I don't see a problem with him having it. But...I remember being in sixth grade (eons ago) and how immature we all were...especially the boys.

I'm betting he was probably horsing around with it. If he was doing that, then he deserved to have it taken away.

[Lagomorph]

49. At any given moment...

you probably have things you don't need and don't have things you do need.

There was a time when children got their toys taken away from them and then got them returned after class.

Trust me, things worked a lot better in those days. We have a ridiculous number of people who think they know what's best for those around them, but the truth is, they never asked anybody.

The truth is, if you think you can impose what's best for people on them, it's gonna only go so far and then blow up in your face.

America has criminalized and banned more human behaviors than any nation in history. Just the same, all the problems are still there. It drives up the cost and drives down the quality of life.

Making life more expensive and less enjoyable is not progressive, it's regressive.

[Obamanaut]

39. "Some say" they could pose a danger to the eye if a person

looks directly at the beam.

The degree of that possible danger varies with strength of the laser and the length of time the beam in actually on the eye.

Some have warning labels on the package and/or the product itself

http://www.wisegeek.com/are-laser-pointers-dangerous.htm

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081212090847AAnUC6K

[pipi_k]

47. We have a few here for the dogs

who love chasing them.

the little red ones appear to be relatively harmless...not that strong, although I wouldn't shine it directly into someone's eyes.

But the green ones are scary. A beam of light directed across the room shows all the little dust motes floating around in the air, and the light spot it makes, even on the rug, is very bright.

[Fumesucker]

52. The green laser itself may not be any more powerful..

The eye is most sensitive to green light and a green laser appears much brighter than one of the same power that is red, a part of the spectrum where they eye is considerably less sensitive.

[Taitertots]

48. For the most part harmless

It is insane to call a low power laser a weapon. You can pretty much stare right into one with very little health risk. You are worse off having someone shine sunlight into your eyes with a mirror.

Better ban the sun now!

[aikoaiko]

54. Expelled is too much. Suspension is too much simply for having it.

Confiscation and dentention would be appropriate if it were a clear rule.

Maybe suspension if the student was "dotting" people in the face because that can easily cause eye damage.

But not explusion.

This is another example of the type of thing that is causing people to go to private school.