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Gen. McChrystal Threatening to Resign Over Afghanistan

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Nuclear Unicorn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:17 PM
Original message
Gen. McChrystal Threatening to Resign Over Afghanistan
In Kabul, some members of McChrystal's staff said they don't understand why Obama called Afghanistan a "war of necessity" but still hasn't given them the resources they need to turn things around quickly.

Three officers at the Pentagon and in Kabul told McClatchy that the McChrystal they know would resign before he'd stand behind a faltering policy that he thought would endanger his forces or the strategy.

"Yes, he'll be a good soldier, but he will only go so far," a senior official in Kabul said. "He'll hold his ground. He's not going to bend to political pressure."

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/v-print/story/75702.html

If we're leaving we need to do it fast before this man can try to embarrass the president.
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Orwellian_Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. I say
put the McPistol on the front line. Let him fight it out.
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rubberducky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
2. Is this like a temper tantrem General style?
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
3. I don't take news leaks seriously
Unrec.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Yeah, those Pentagon Papers were rubbish in the 70's.
And Plame's name being leaked to the press? Nothing to see there. Best not to even think about such things.
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #6
22. At least Ellsberg had the balls to go public
Perhaps I should have added that anonymous leaks are what especially drive me up the wall. Real men go on the record.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. The truth isn't always deliverd by real men.
Edited on Tue Sep-22-09 05:12 PM by Forkboy
I'm not trying to argue that this is true, I don't know it if it is or not, but it's out there now, and if I just ignore it I never will know. I do know that sometimes the truth isn't what I wanted to hear, but the idea is to get more information not less, because there's too many examples where leaks, big and small, ARE true, or at least have enough truth to merit further attention. Just ignoring the leak based on the nature of how it's delivered seems like choosing ignorance to me instead of knowledge. :shrug:
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:22 PM
Original message
Hey, McChrystal! We've been in a meatgrinder before...
Remember Vietnam? You all thought you had a infinite number of American draftees to run through the oligarchy's meatgrinder. Turns out that wasn't so...

So, STF up and do your job!
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. Good...
..... maybe then we can get out of there.
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
5. no he's not
Media Matters points out that the RW blogs are spinning it the way you're spinning it (coincidentally i'm sure), but in fact McChrystal never said anything about resigning.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/200909220030
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Nuclear Unicorn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Actually I pulled my quote from McClatchy...
...and it is exactly as MMFA reports it.

Still, it's serious thing to consider it can't all be bluff.

Maybe Obama should fire him for allowing the report to leak that would certainly keep the general from pulling any stunts, bluffed or otherwise.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Could you get the quote please
Because I don't see it in that article.
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Nuclear Unicorn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Of course, here goes:
The section I pasted in the OP said:

Three officers at the Pentagon and in Kabul told McClatchy that the McChrystal they know would resign before he'd stand behind a faltering policy that he thought would endanger his forces or the strategy.


Original link in the OP.

The MMFA article linked above (thank-you! :hi:) also shows the same:

The problem is, as noted by Mudville Gazette, what McClatchy actually wrote is this:

Three officers at the Pentagon and in Kabul told McClatchy that the McChrystal they know would resign before he'd stand behind a faltering policy that he thought would endanger his forces or the strategy .


So, MMFA has the correct quote but I'm wondering if 3 people in Afghanistan and DC saying the same thing isn't a whispering campaign designed to nudge (extort?) President Obama. I think leaking classified documents is a firing offense and would pre-empt any effort by rogues to embarrass the President.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. That does not say McChrystal is threatening to resign
All it says is somebody talked to a few people who speculated as to what "the man they knew", whatever the hell that means, might do.

Considering none of them resigned when Bush lied them into a war, I doubt any of them would resign now.

But you know, help bash the President because god knows there aren't enough people out there doing it.
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JBoris Donating Member (675 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Exactly, the OP's title is misleading... at best. nt
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Nuclear Unicorn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Oh good grief!
How does anything in this thread bash the President?

This morning I was bashed for DEFENDING the President on HCR. If I wanted president-bashing I'd go to another board. It's the needless DUer-bashing that troubles me the most.
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votingupstart Donating Member (535 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #8
27. resign for allowing a report to leak - are you serious?
Here we campaign tirelessly for open government discussion on policy, making sure that the people we put on the ground are allowed to tell the truth about what is actually happening and you have the brainstorm to suggest that he should resign for a leaked report. A report i might add that you have no way of telling how it was leaked, by whom, exactly when, or who was even responsible.

let me leak a quote for you - "never go full retard"
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Nuclear Unicorn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #27
35. I'm sorry but what part of "Classified" was too taxing
for these officers to understand?
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votingupstart Donating Member (535 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. so you have proof that "the general" leaked a clasified report?
why are you posting it here, call CNN.

oh...wait... you don't.... thanks for playing... bubye
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Nuclear Unicorn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. Who do you think leaked it, the White House?
Be real. The leak was designed to embarrass the President and if a general cannot control himself or his subordinates he needs to be replaced.
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votingupstart Donating Member (535 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. you are saying the exact same things the republicans said about Shinseki - Did you not learn
Edited on Tue Sep-22-09 07:26 PM by votingupstart
"he's just trying to damage the President"

"the President knows best"

"he needs to shut up and follow his orders"

- WTF do you think led to Iraq in the first place, and the republicans jumped up and down on Shinseki for not towing the line with Bush saying these exact same things. All of us here at DU complained (rightly so) how the Military was not being allowed to tell the American people the truth.

and here you are saying this same bullshit like some sort of twilight zone broken record -- Here we are trying to make sure that the military commanders are able to tell us the truth about what they need so we don't play politics with Soldiers lives, but instead you cant remember a couple of years ago when the shoe was on the other foot.

let me help you out since your obviously a little slow learning lessons - the stove is hot, don't touch it
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Nuclear Unicorn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #43
49. Misplaced analogy
This "stove" that you speak of that is too hot to touch is spelled w-a-r...which is just a euphemism for organized murder.

Shinseki tried to keep us out of Iraq and I believe what is at play here by the WH is an effort to reduced and redirect efforts in Afghanistan if not affect a withdrawal altogether but the former commander of JSOC--which has had some very serious allegations leveled against it--is attempting an end-run around his Commander.

THAT is the lesson here.
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votingupstart Donating Member (535 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. the lesson here
is that before Iraq we had a top general try to tell the administration, what the best military course of action was. he was brushed aside and told to STFU, and resigned. This was done because the military needs were not in keeping with the Political wants. Democrats were stomped on when trying to stand up for a differing opinion and questioning the Administration and trying to get the full story.

DO YOU SEE WHERE THAT LED US - Apparently not since you are still arguing that the general should STFU and be a good soldier.

Now (just a few years later) we have another General telling us the situation on the ground, and what are we doing, we are taking the republicans criticisms that were thrown back then and re-using them now - WTF is that?

Oh and shown me one quote from the General stating that he disagrees with the administration, the Secretary of Defense or the Joint Chiefs of Staff or hell mickey mouse for that matter.

this same jump on the fire-his-ass band wagon got us into a lot of shit in Iraq, and apparently you really want to see that repeated in Afghanistan.

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Nuclear Unicorn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. False premise to crown a misplaced analogy
You're arguing from the premise as to how best fight the wars. OK, fine whatever. I hear Lincoln fired quite a few of his generals, maybe he was a bad president too, I dunno I don't remember his administration as I'm only 21.

The point here is that the wars should not be fought...PERIOD...ergo the means of fighting them is irrelevant.

I do not know how make it any simpler.
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votingupstart Donating Member (535 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. You cant even keep track of your own argument --- here are your words
Your Quote

"Maybe Obama should fire him for allowing the report to leak that would certainly keep the general from pulling any stunts, bluffed or otherwise."

NOTHING about fighting wars or right or wrong - just that the General should be "fired for allowing the report to leak"

-- knucklehead, look closely at YOUR OWN WORDS - do you see an analogy on how to fight wars? do you see moral diatribe on the necessity or futility of states, nations or people fighting wars? what you see is the same idiotic knee jerk reaction that got us into the situation in Iraq and you seem to desperately want to repeat that.

you got upset that anyone would appear question the administration, i can understand, it gets frustrating to see your guy get hammered and constantly questioned (unfairly or not). HOWEVER that is a very slippery slope when the government seems to disregard participatory discussion with the very people it charged with being on top of the situation.
(didn't we just have about 8 years of a similar situation - and you want to.. what.... repeat that?)

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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
7. What sort of victory are we supposedly working toward in Afghanistan?
They say we need more troops to get it done, but what is it?

Will we kill everyone in Afghanistan?

Will we kill just enough so that no one there hates Americans?

Will we ...

I give up; what are we supposed to accomplish?
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
9. You don't run a war on gossip
I do not even know why anybody would give this shit credence - except to help embarrass the President. With a capital P.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
11. The fact is the US assigns the role of deciding policy to the CIVILIAN leadership
Edited on Tue Sep-22-09 04:39 PM by karynnj
There are different strategies and each has serious adherents that argue that that strategy gives the greatest chance of success. McChrystal is a strong adherent of a counterinsurgency strategy. There are others who warn that an outside country can not be successful with this type of strategy if there is a corrupt unpopular government (as in both Afghanistan and Vietnam).

McChrystal is either arrogant or deliberately trying to deceive in stating ONLY his approach could win. Given the stated goals, a counter terrorism approach - or a counter terrorism approach coupled with aid and help (maybe provided by the allies) to develop infrastructure and institutions are alternative solutions.

Here is a link to an excellent SFRC hearing last week on three strategies. Click on the title to get the video or read the statements by the experts and Kerry and Lugar. http://foreign.senate.gov/hearings/2009/hrg090916p.html

As to getting out, even Feingold denied that was a reasonable idea.

Although this is not a direct quote, there is likely some truth to the troop request - the person most alligned to that strtegy at the SFRC hearing spoke of 400,000 to 600,000 troops - some Afghan or allies, not all American.

The strange thing with teh right's comments is they did not see a problem with Bush overruling Shinseki.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
12. Maybe they'll replace him with Westmoreland..or Abrams...to find the light at the end of the tunnel.
Maybe this idiot "leaked" the memo so he'd get shitcanned before the lost war is pronounced lost.
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
13. This is Cheney's work.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
14. McCrystal needs to STFU and do as he's told. He has been given
orders by his CIC which he has no business questioning. If he doesn't like said orders, the only thing we should hear next is that he has in fact resigned. Not crap like this in the MSM.
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Gman2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Unless we allow him to vanquish Islam, he'll hold his breath.
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votingupstart Donating Member (535 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #14
28. Are you being stupid or did i miss the sarcasm - you need to really rethink what you are saying
Before you start talking about STFU you need to re-read some history.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Not listening to the top military commanders caused us a lot of pain before, and you are suggesting we do it again?

and just as a side note - you want people who disagree to resign, what about the enlisted who have no option to resign?
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. The good general needs to keep his complaints private and work it out with his CIC,
not WHINE TO THE MEDIA.
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votingupstart Donating Member (535 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. You obviously didn't read or learn anything from the last time we went through this.
Edited on Tue Sep-22-09 05:36 PM by votingupstart

oh and show me the quote from "the General" complaining about his CIC.

here is another

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Thothmes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #30
38. The good generals are not yes men for the administration
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votingupstart Donating Member (535 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #38
44. i could not agree more - and here is this
idiot who seems to think that blind allegiance is the answer.

-- this is how we got into the situation in Iraq, the republicans crucified Shinseki for not agreeing with the Administration (Rumsfeld/Cheney/Bush) and here this knucklehead is a couple of year later yelling the EXACT SAME THINGS.


how many times does it take to learn a lesson paid for in blood?
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
16. If we had the troops would it help to put in 500,000 like we had in Vietnam
Edited on Tue Sep-22-09 04:42 PM by elocs
considering that Afghanistan is twice the size of Vietnam?

Check out the history of our troop strength in Vietnam:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/U.S._Troop_levels_in_Vietnam_...

Year Troop Level

1959 760

1960 900

1961 3,025

1962 11,300

1963 16,300

1964 23,300

1965 184,300

1966 385,300

1967 485,600

1968 536,100

1969 475,200

1970 334,600

1971 156,800

1972 24,200

1973 50

Does this teach us anything?
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Thothmes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #16
39. Elect a Republican to the White House if you want the
troop numbers to come down? Not sure thats what you wanted.
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 02:51 AM
Response to Reply #39
48. My post was to clearly show that increasing troop strength has nothing to do with success.
We failed in Vietnam with a half a million troops in a country half the size of Afghanistan.
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choie Donating Member (899 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
17. Good!!!
He shouldn't have promoted to this position in the first place.
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JBoris Donating Member (675 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
18. Umm.. no he isn't.
Its just speculation by three officers, based on the "McChrystal they know".

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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
20. Maybe he needs to go.. Dick Cheney will get him a job
:grr:
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lpbk2713 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
26. Say hello to the next FauxNoise Military Adviser.



I'd bet it's already a done deal.



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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
29. Why weren't there dozens of resignations during the reign of pres shit-for-brains?
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votingupstart Donating Member (535 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #29
36. not dozens..but
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #36
47. Shinseki...a voice in the wilderness...
Edited on Tue Sep-22-09 09:10 PM by BrklynLiberal
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
31. Eat shit and die McChrystal ...fucking war monger.
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Thothmes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #31
41. Appointed to his current post by the current President
He is Obama's man in the job.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
32. Bubye! n/t
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
34. This is some more RepubliCON meddling ...
look for McCain,Lieberman,Graham and Duncan Hunter the 1st..
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Nuclear Unicorn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
42. Analysis of the possible dispute:
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Cirque du So-What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
45. IF this is true...
I hope President Obama accepts his resignation. Nobody is irreplaceable, and Gen. McChrystal is no exception. President Truman took a much bigger chance when he replaced Gen. MacArthur - a demigod with nebulous political ambitions - at the height of the Korean War, and he lived to tell the tale.
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harkadog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. Actually he didn't live -- at least politically.
He did not run in 1952 because of his low political standing.
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lib2DaBone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
53. Good! End the war.. bring our troops home.. what's so hard about that?
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