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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:15 PM
Original message
Vaccines and my thesis
Edited on Tue Sep-22-09 04:58 PM by nadinbrzezinski
When I was doing research for my MA in History Thesis I did a lot of readying into the Vaccination Campaign the Crown ran in New Spain in oh between 1811 and 1817. Mind you it was in the middle of a war, but Jenner's smallpox vaccine was the latest invention of Western Europe, and a hell of a connect them dots moment in Medical History.

Well as I have read the reaction many folks are having in particular to the Hinnie Flu, but the flu in general, I had one of those... history repeats itself in funny ways. What drove me to that moment was the "out of the top" reaction in a particular post from Native Americans, which given the history of the last five hundred years was not over the top.

But there is something that is striking.

To the locals in the small towns all over old Mexico the Vaccine was spreading the disease not curing it. (Granted it used live cow pox, but that is another story). Think about it. We have had anything from the government created this in labs... to big pharma did this, to they are trying to kill us. It is a very similar reaction. And to me it is another one of those moments were we see history repeating itself. And it is worrisome. In early 19th century Spain Jenner's vaccine was quite honest a foreign concept. It was European, cutting edge, medicine. And understandably the lcoals, especially the local Native populations were leery of this new science. So were the elites... but we are 200 years removed from Jenner's experiments. We have all had a vaccine or two in our lifetimes. We know they work. We also know they have some side effects. So I have to ask, is our population so badly educated that we are seeing the same fears I have read upon on Colonial papers? Or simply some concepts, like vaccines, are too foreign for most humans?

Oh and yes, I got my annual shot today, in case anybody is curious, and yes my arm hurts like a you know what... and probably tomorrow I will be feeling a little under the weather. But hey. I understand why I need the damn thing... and I also knew why it would be best to take it now, and have some time before the Hinnie flu comes in.

Nadin.

PS if anybody is curious and reads Spanish, the original documents, well in microfiche, can be found at San Diego State Love Library by the way as well as Texas in Austin I believe.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. Any technology, sufficiently advanced, seems like a threat to woo-woos.
Call it Ian's Corollary to The Clark Hypothesis.

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. I like that
scary though in the early 19th century it made a lot of sense... but today you'd think people would understand how a vaccine works. Isn't biology required? I mean this is so damn basic it is not even funny.
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TxRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
2. Think about it.
Edited on Tue Sep-22-09 04:37 PM by TxRider
Your asking someone to trust a person they likely do not know, to put a substance that was made by someone somewhere else they will never see, with a technology they don't understand, into their system via injection with a needle.

I don't see it as far fetched that some people's trust might not extend quite that far....

Especially over a flu that by all accounts won't do any more harm to them than any other flu if they even catch it.

Personally I've never had a flu shot, and I see no reason to get one now. From what I have read I am in an age bracket that already likely has some immunity. Give mine to some kid with immune system issues instead or someone who needs it more.

Were it comparable to smallpox, something that would likely kill me if if I caught it, I would be the first in line.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Not that different actually from... trusting the barber to do a small
surgery in the sixteenth century involving some bleeding.

Now you put the finger on it, people are afraid, and they are 'fraid for the same reason the Communities in old Mejico were afraid of the Spanish (and a few Criollo) Enlightenment doctors going around sticking them with cow pox. They didn't understand what this was about. Oh and if you asked those doctors to explain WHY this worked. they'd not be able to explain it to you. Today, any descent health care provider will be able to explain to you what is going on.

The vaccine is using enough components of the virus to make your body react to it creating immunity. Yes, it is that simple.

As to the H1N1... as long as it does not mutate...

Me, high risk group... also former medic... so I guess I have a leg up on most consumer of medical products. And I used to chase kids south of the border to give them their vaccines for all kinds of things we all kids got vaccines for. You did as well, when you were a kid. So you know.

Mind you, when I was readying this material I was also part of the teams doing the vaccination campaigns and at times we saw very similar reactions to those I read about. It is just scary that I am seeing them in a population that is supposedly more "modern."

I'd hazard to say the US is, in that sense, as "primitive" as some of our native populations. Oh and I do not use the primitive in a bad way. I love traditional medicines, and we need to do far more work into how they work and why. Hell, Lasix... to use a well used and well trodden medication in the western medicine catalog comes from a plant, it used to be tended at medical schools all over Europe until we started making the damn thing in the lab.

So yes, I want to know how chamomile works, and why... not just to help you sleep. It is a smooth muscle relaxant... and that is why it works for tummy aches.
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kimmerspixelated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
3. It is understandable why Native Americans were leary.
Ancient ways of curing were always available to them. They have relied on food and herbs. You might have heard the quote,"Let Food Be Thy Medicine and Medicine Be Thy Food" which ironically came from the Father of Medicine, Hippocrates.

The natives and other cultures around the world are herb saavy.

Perhaps homeopathic vaccines are the best in that they do not introduce anything your body finds objectionable.

What is the Hinnie Flu?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Native populations have a good reason to be leery
after all Whites used germ warfare from the git go, not that they were aware they were doing it in the beginning.

They are right to be weary today, given 500 years of history, I know that.

But that is another rant and another history...

Oh and Hinnie flu is H1N1... kind of a joke on it.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
7. Next time, get it in your butt. It's a bigger muscle and it hurts a lot less
I had to teach the pharmy how to do it when I got mine yesterday. I don't know why their "how to stab a customer" class doesn't address this, it's a much bigger target. Huge, in fact, in my case.

People freak out over the swine flu vaccine because they've been told to by a bunch of hysterically inaccurate viral (pardon the pun) emails.

It's new, it generally requires a needle unless you pay out the wazoo, and there is a boatload of disinformation about it out there.

The human race, on the whole, is not smart. Unfortunately, ignorant people who aren't smart enough to know how to check facts are always going to be prime suckers for scare campaigns.

BTW, the Jenner vax was a real stinker, requiring muliple punctures over a blob of what was essentially pus. The person's immune system went into hyperdrive and the area developed some pretty nasty infections. However, it beat the hell out of that 30+% mortality rate for smallpox. It was just very hard for primitive souls that a needle jab and infected sore had anything at all to do with catching a disease later in life.

In fact, some of that is still at work with primitive souls, today.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I know, I got it at target actually
Edited on Tue Sep-22-09 05:08 PM by nadinbrzezinski
and they are using BIG needles going DEEP into the muscle, part of the problem.

And yes the Jenner Vaccine had many downsides to it. I'll give Edward Jenner a pass though, as he connected the dots for the first time. It led to the modern theory of disease.

Why I said, modern health care providers should be able to explain in a sentence or two how a vax works. Those folks, on the other hand, not really.

One of them was a long discussion with the Cardinal of Guadalajara who saw the damn thing as something of the devil... not that some things have changed....

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
9. Kick for the night crew
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