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Liberal_in_LA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 03:51 PM
Original message
Fired! Cops who tazed the 76 year old driving the tractor in the parade
2 officers fired after Tasering parade driver, 76
By MATT JOYCE, Associated Press Writer

Tuesday, September 22, 2009


(09-22) 11:10 PDT Cheyenne, Wyo. (AP) --

Two police officers who chased and Tasered a 76-year-old man driving a tractor in a Wyoming town parade have been fired.

Bud Grose, who was shocked five times by Officer Michael Kavenius, welcomed the decision announced Tuesday by the Glenrock Police Department.

"Hopefully this will kind of help bring the community together and be an answer to a lot of questions and problems," he said.

Kavenius shot Grose with a Taser on Aug. 1 near the end of Glenrock's annual Deer Creek Days parade. Sgt. Paul Brown was also relieved of duty.

Police say Grose, who was driving an antique tractor in the parade, disobeyed Kavenius' traffic command. That led to a short pursuit and the Taser use, which outraged some in the town of 2,400.


Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/0...
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. General Rule:
Cops are assholes ~~ not all of them and there are exceptions. However, until proven otherwise as an exception, always consider anyone with a badge to be a lying POS asshole.

JMHO
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Yes, in my experience..
this is so. These kind of cops who were fired bc of taser are not the norm.
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Tell me how many legal cases you have been involved in regarding cops or L.E.
As clients and/or as litigants?

I base my opinion on actual experiences. You know three cops ~~ and they are good in your book. Try a broader sampling ~~ then you may be able to give a valid opinion.

I have had YEARS of dealing with COP BULLSHIT ~~ and based on multiple experiences, I stand by my general rule. Time after time I have watched them lie their asses off in court and on reports.

BTW: You might wish to consult the DU rules on what you posted. Hint...
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #6
24. How many cops are there in the US?
How many of those are actually abusive? I am guessing the number is much lower than people think. It is a shame too. The good things cops do don't make the news. Only the shitty cops will be on the news.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #24
47. If cops want people to think better of them, they need to do a far better
job of policing their own ranks.
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Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. I like Hepburn's rule better
Apologists for the police enable them to continue to be abusive. THIS time they were fired. How many times did they keep their jobs and how fast do you think these two clowns will find jobs in another police department?
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #7
25. I love how it is called "apologists". That is a funny term.
Defending good cops does not make me or anyone else an apologist. I just refuse to play into the all cops are bad because some of them are game that goes on here.
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. Perhaps you'd prefer the term Cop Hagiographers?
If the foo shits, and all. :hi:
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Some are not assholes.
But they are exceptions. Yup.
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elias7 Donating Member (913 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
12. That is a childish, inaccurate and irresponsible statement
Do you know any cops?
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. I do.
One in the family. An asshole who beat his wife (my SIL) and cheated on her with his partner and then tried to sue her for custody of the kids.

What's the point of your question?

Do we have to personally know these assholes who are running around tasing anything that moves in order to understand that they are assholes?
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #13
26. No, But not all of them are running around tasing people for nothing.
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #26
35. No, many engage in other asshole activities. n/t
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. Oh ok. I forgot that you know all of them.
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #37
43. Since when does "many" mean "all"? n/t
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 06:08 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. Since the apologists needed an angle. n/t
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-26-09 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #44
54. ...
Edited on Sat Sep-26-09 12:38 PM by madeline_con
:cry:
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elias7 Donating Member (913 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #13
41. Yeah, and I know some welfare queens
So should I conclude that everyone getting medicaid and food stamps are exploiting the system? How Republican of me, mistaking the exception for the rule.

Look, there are a lot of assholes out there, period. But stereotyping based on negative experiences is problematic. To you white people out there, ever walk through the projects? Do you have a right (if you walk out alive) to become a racist?
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. The question was "do you know any cops", so I answered the question.
Edited on Thu Sep-24-09 10:49 PM by JTFrog
Then you pulled some rant out of your ass.

:eyes:
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elias7 Donating Member (913 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. Hmmm...the question wasn't actually addressed to you.
I was responding to the post: "General rule: Cops are assholes ~~ not all of them and there are exceptions. However, until proven otherwise as an exception, always consider anyone with a badge to be a lying POS asshole."

You are right. We don't "have to personally know these assholes who are running around tasing anything that moves in order to understand that they are assholes?"

My fecally encrusted rant on your statement was perhaps misplaced, but you should take some credit for failing to understand my initial pique at post #1. Assholes are assholes, who can deny. I hope I have little more subtlety up my asshole. My point, which you didn't really acknowledge, was that stereotyping sucks, and is unworthy of us.

As I implied, should I condemn all welfare recipients to my contempt because I read about one who abused the system?

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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. Then you should have replied to that post instead of mine. n/t
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elias7 Donating Member (913 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-26-09 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #46
50. I did. Yet you still fail to address the substance of my posts. Be civil please.
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-26-09 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #50
51. There was no "substance" to address.
Edited on Sat Sep-26-09 10:07 AM by JTFrog
And do you think calling someone childish, inaccurate and irresponsible for stating their opinion is a good example of civil?

Just curious. :shrug:

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elias7 Donating Member (913 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #51
55. Poor you
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elias7 Donating Member (913 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #51
56. Perhaps you missed it
Since when is calling someone out on hate speech a question of civility? The post that I responded to told me to "always consider anyone with a badge to be a lying POS asshole".

The substance of my post (which sadly must be too subtle for you) is that if I went around saying to always consider an Obama supporter a lying POS communist terrorist-hugging asshole, you might think me a teabagger guilty of inflammatory or even dangerous speech, and if you were in fact civil, you might just stop at characterizing my comments as "childish, inaccurate and irresponsible".

BTW, I've come across cops and ex-cops on DU over the years. It is not an us vs them dynamic unless you make it that way (or if you speed a lot)
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
32. Some occupations
just seem to attract the types of personalities that will abuse the power of the position. Law enforcement, management & politicians come to mind.
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #1
38. In my experience
Just the opposite. 10% of cops being bad is still too high but your broad brush is bullshit.
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Zix Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
2. Jail sentence would have been more appropriate for this assault.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
4. What's with the Police being so tazer happy all over
the country? Don't they have any skills to write a ticket without zapping a citizen and hurting them unnecessarily or worse..killing them?

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eShirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 06:59 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. some have the type of personality that gets off on arbitrarily exercising that kind of control over
civilians. These individuals must be weeded out from jobs that give them that kind of power.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #10
20. Nail - hammer - KAPOW
Thank you
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Mariana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #4
15. It's how they get their jollies. nt.
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Tippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #4
19. They like the power.....
Over the years I have known some good, honest officers...and I have known those who should never be alowed to carry a firearm much less be employeed by the tax payers....
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #19
49. All cops are on a huge ego trip. Especially the ones with their penis
extending radar guns.
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
31. Lack of proper training in force escalation.
Lack of proper training in non-violent conflict resolution.
Lack of proper training in communications.
Lack of proper training in issued weapons (Tazers).

And lack of proper training as decent human beings who wouldn't tazer an freakin' octogenarian!

I'm not sure how you train the last one, though. :shrug:
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Heidi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 01:37 AM
Response to Original message
9. Recommended.
:kick:
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WolverineDG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 07:01 AM
Response to Original message
11. what took them so long to reach this decision? nt
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moriah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
14. I've known many good cops.
But it only takes a few bad apples to ruin the trust that the public should be able to have for law enforcement.

There is no question that using a Taser on a 76-year-old who was not being violent is excessive force. Did the officer think that perhaps a person who was elderly and sitting on a loud tractor might not have heard the instruction? I don't know the facts in this case, but that is just one possibility cops often fail to think about when an instruction is disobeyed. How many deaf people have we heard of getting horrifically assaulted because they did not obey instructions given over a loudspeaker?

I personally think it would do our entire justice system, including the many good police officers that were out there, a world of good for more funding to be dedicated to videotaping interactions with the public and with suspects. There are many officers that agree with me -- they want routine videotaping of all interviews or interrogations, whether they are custodial or non-custodial. It will stop real criminals from trying to get off with false claims of police brutality, and document real ones. It would give police and juries the body language information that is often missing from audiotaped confessions or interrogations, letting officers concentrate on other aspects of interrogation knowing they can come back and look over a suspect's body language later. While many officers fought dash cams being installed, they have been invaluable in saving the careers of otherwise good cops when people make a false accusation -- most support their use now. They have also allowed us to see the facts when the bad apples out there have acted to ruin the reputation of other officers -- like the guy who was Tasered during a routine traffic stop, or when the officers shot the dog owned by a perfectly innocent couple during a "felony stop" based on false information.
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Mariana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. It's too bad that all these so-called "good cops"
hardly ever rat out their psychopathic and sadistic colleagues. The assholes might think twice if they didn't have the expectation that other cops will cover for them no matter how outrageous their conduct is.

And that is exactly what happens almost all the time. Do you EVER hear of a cop being arrested on the scene by his colleagues after they've observed him using excessive force or committing some other crime?
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moriah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. In the DNC protest videos...
... one hauled his "buddy" back after he was about to go extremely excessive force with a baton on a protester, and you could see him yelling at the guy and assigning him to a different position, away from the front lines.

When I saw that, I wanted the guys badge number so I could tell his boss he did the right thing by keeping his colleague from hurting somebody.

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Mariana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. And next time he loses it, and there's no one
there to haul him back? What's going to happen then? That cop is dangerous. He has so little control over himself that he was about to go pound someone when there were hundreds of witnesses, video cameras, and his boss watching him.

If a cop saw YOU about to attack someone with a weapon, what do you think would happen? He was about to commit a felony and he should have been arrested, just like anyone else would be.
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PJPhreak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
18. In my 51 years on planet earth,
Edited on Wed Sep-23-09 10:11 AM by PJPhreak
there are three rules that I live by...
1.L.E.O=Enemy
2.L.E.O.=Never say ANYTHING!!
3.Refer to rules #1 and #2

Yes there are decent L.E.O.'s out there,but I have also witnessed them lying under oath in a court of law!!

I'm sorry and make my apologies to the few LEO's who really try to do the right thing...But I can NEVER trust a LEO any further than I can throw a Hummer with my Left Hand!

edit for punctuation
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Taitertots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #18
29. L.E.O. = Enemy
How could things go wrong with an attitude like that?
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PJPhreak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. They Dont...
But just because one is an enemy doesn't mean that they don't deserve respect.

Just because I don't trust LEO's doesn't mean that I don't respect them or what their job is,But time and again I have seen them Lie,Steal,falsify evidence and testimony in court.

Fail to understand? ask any Deadhead...We know what personal persecution really is!!
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. Both my son and husband have gone to the cop shop to complain
about maltreatment in the past 2 weeks.

In one incident, my son and his freind were harrassed for a while because they were on a particular streeet "known for drug activity".

The other was an incident in which a neighbor was lighting fireworks. Cop said hubby was lying when he told him he wasn't lighting anything.

Assholes.
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
21. It's only a few bad apples ....pfffft yea right.
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. And what do you base any of your information on?
The stories you see in the newspaper and on the news? Very seldom does the media report good things that cops do. The only time I can really remember them doing so was 9-11. Those damn asshole cops ran into those burning buildings because they are just mean ole assholes.
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
23. That's not good enough! I demand Congress defund the police department and investigate them for
voter fraud!

:sarcasm:
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Shell Beau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
28. Glad to know he will not be able to do this to anyone else.
He deserved worse than just a firing.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
34. That's impossible, cops are never held accountable.
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newspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #34
39. and, in my idealistic world
I believe that anyone in law enforcement, that includes deputies, should pass a full psychological test, have at least a BA in sociology or psychology to deal with the public, and courses in criminal justice. And since, they must meet certain criteria, their pay should reflect their education. My boss' son was in law enforcement for a short time in a small tourist community. Some of the other officers told him he wasn't being tough enough on the citizens. He was more like Andy of Mayberry. And, like Andy, he could get a local drunk to come willingly with him, unlike the others who wanted to tussle or taser.

My ex-brother-in-law was also in law enforcement. He was also one who abused power. Also, had a thing for the sweet young things while he was married to my sister-in-law.

There are good law enforcement who believe they are serving the public and it's not "us against them" (them being the public). But, there are enough bad ones that love to abuse power and they need to go. There are too many good people right now looking for a job-time to separate the wheat from the chaff.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-24-09 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Who has argued that the bad ones need to stay?
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
48. He could have been killed pretty easy falling off a tractor.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-26-09 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
52. I'm glad they were fired
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skygazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-26-09 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
53. You know, this whole story pissed me off
Okay, I fully agree that cops are out of control with the tazing. BUT...

I read the original account of this guy's actions. He apparently completely ignored the cop, clipped him with his tractor and then ignored the squad of cops pursuing him. In other words, he actually was defying authority.

Now, should he have been tazed? Probably not.

But where is the outrage when little black girls get tazed? All these proud Wyoming citizens up in arms over the tazing of white Bud Grose who acted like an asshole don't raise a peep when a minority gets tazed for refusing to have her school photo taken. In fact, people here on DU come up with elaborate reasons why it's perfectly normal for that girl to be tazed.

It's just the inequity of it all. Old white man gets tazed - cop gets fired.

Black kid gets tazed - probably deserved it.

:banghead:
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-28-09 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
57. this story blew me away
and unfortunately, I had made the assumption that nothing like this would be done to hold these cops accountable. I'm glad to see they did.
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