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What can a police officer ask you to do? What are the limits?

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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 09:35 AM
Original message
What can a police officer ask you to do? What are the limits?
Edited on Tue Sep-22-09 09:37 AM by CreekDog
What are the requirements they must follow in order to require you to do something?

I'm asking because of the story where a Chicago officer demanded that an ER nurse act outside protocol to draw blood for a DUI test on a suspect he had brought to the ER. She was arrested when she refused to do it immediately.

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"Lisa Hofstra said she was the charge nurse in the emergency room on Aug. 1 when the officer approached her at about 4 a.m. The officer requested she perform a blood work-up on a DUI suspect, the lawsuit said.

Hofstra told the officer the suspect needed to be admitted to the hospital before she could draw the persons blood. Hofstra said she told a police lieutenant that it was the hospitals protocol to wait until a suspect was admitted, and the lieutenant agreed, she said.

The lieutenant left the emergency room.

Then Hofstra called her supervisors, but before they could respond, the officer put her in handcuffs in front of her co-workers and escorted her to a squad car, according to the lawsuit."

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/1782491,nurse-lawsui...

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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
1. At the time they are doing it-pretty much anything they want.
Best bet is keep mouth shut and get a mouthpiece first chance you get.
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. but what is the criminal charge for failing to do as told?
and if you are in a professional position and you get arrested following procedures instead of an officer's order, is that culpable?
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. I'm sure a lot of that depends on whether the cop's demand is lawful
Or not
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
2. The cop can ask anything he/she wants...
I can tell him/her to fuck off. False arrest, here. The cops cannot compel you to do anything to another person. Period. The nurse was within her rights.
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michreject Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #2
12. Then there is this
http://www.motorists.org/blog/motorists-forced-to-let-o... /

There have been an increasing number of police departments allowing their officers to draw blood samples from motorists under suspicion of a DUI/DWI. This takes place on the roadside as opposed to a hospital where there are trained medical professionals. It seems like a recipe for disaster to allow officers to do blood draws when they do not have adequate medical training. This has proven true in Arizona recently where a lawsuit has been filed to stop this practice.
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
4. She was right, he was wrong, this was a bad arrest.
First, he'd have gotten his blood sample had he waited, so there was really no reason to ask her to break protocol.

He should be reprimanded but nothing will happen unless she presses charges.

There was a great thread last night on how we should say nothing to police.

There is no requirement to respond to police questions whether or not you are under arrest.

If you're asked to do something like stay out of the way, you can be arrested, but you can't be compelled to draw blood, that's fucking crazy.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. My guess is that this DUI suspect might have been borderline. The longer you wait for the blood
test, the lower the results will be because the body metabolizes the alcohol content. Quite a few suspects walk because it took too long to test, so by the time it was done the results were under the limit.
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. if that's the reason, then it's really bogus because she's not doing something to keep the peace
she's being asked to act quickly to preserve evidence.

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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #5
14. That may be the case. If so, the PD wants to change the law and needs to do it the way we would...
If we don't like the status quo, we lobby for reform or legislation.

We can't just make up new rules and neither, thankfully, can they.

(I think you're probably right-- if they were borderline then maybe they get off- this time)

:donut:
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #5
18. This would make a cop mad because they hate to lose a DUI
and that's how warped our drunk driving enforcement has become. Someone with a BAC of .079 shouldn't be driving but it's not illegal. While these cops were wasting time getting their noses bent back into shape there were probably dozens of drivers with BACs at twice the legal limit out there driving in the same area, not to mention burglars, assaulters, and other law breakers.
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uncle ray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #5
19. i don't think there is borderline for DUI.
note that there is a slight but important difference between DUI and DWI. DWI means driving while intoxicated, which occurs automatically once you hit the legal limit. DUI is driving under the influence, which is impairment based, meaning you can be charged if you are impaired yet under the limit, so time is not much of a factor in DUI cases.
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daedalus_dude Donating Member (327 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
8. There seems to be a misconception that a cop is somehow a "boss" who can "order" things.
They can't. The fact that they, in practice, do it anyway constitutes abuse. They can usually get away with it of course, but that doesn't mean what they do is legal.

I show the same type of "respect" to cops that I would show any thug who is pointing a gun at me.
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
9. First of all, they need a warrant to draw the blood
If the suspect is not cooperating.

However, one can refuse the breath test and ask for a blood test. The cops are not prepared or trained to draw blood. So they go to an ER for that.

Lemmie check the statute...
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michreject Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. See post 12 nt
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. They don't do this in Chicago (or anywhere else in Illinois)
There was a pilot program in Kane County to get the warrants but it ran into a lot of problems and stopped. If I was accused (guilty or not) and anyone came at me with a needle I'd tell them that I am not their patient, they do not have my consent and they are getting sued if you touch me - that would stop that pretty quick.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
10. She's got an excellent case.
If cities lose enough of these cases maybe they will clean up their police tactics. And if that doesn't do it, maybe the citizens will clean up their city governments.

Eventually the citizens will get tired of paying for their own abuse.
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daedalus_dude Donating Member (327 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
11. The cop is a dick. I hope he loses his job and his life savings to this woman.
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HopeHoops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
15. They can ASK you anything.
The limits are on what you have to answer. Your CORRECT name is pretty much it.

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Zywiec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
16. I hope the smug ass gets fired. n/t
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branders seine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
20. Having just watched "The Bad Lieutenant,"
I can think of a few things...
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