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Bill McBlueState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 07:45 AM
Original message
Happy news turns horrifying for ... couple; embryo implanted by clinic is not their own
A Sylvania Township couple received a double whammy of astonishing news this year from their fertility doctor, news that landed them on national television Monday.

The first part they anticipated: Carolyn Savage was pregnant. But the follow-up that came later carried a horrifying jolt: It's not their baby.

Carolyn and Sean Savage shared with the Today Show audience the extraordinary story of how a fertility clinic accidently implanted the wrong embryo into Mrs. Savage.

"We had been delivered the worst news of our life," Mr. Savage told host Meredith Vieira during the live television interview from their living room.


continued here

If they really wanted a baby, I don't understand why the fact that it wasn't biologically "theirs" constitutes the "worst news" of their lives. It would be a little unsettling, but genes don't make a family.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
1. Is it too early to check the kid into therapy?
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 07:51 AM
Response to Original message
2. If they wanted a child badly enough to go to a fertility clinic,
you'd think a living, healthy child would be enough.

They could have saved the expense and trouble and adopted a child that needed a loving family.

Too often, though, the craving for parenthood is more about the parents, and less about the children involved.
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 07:51 AM
Response to Original message
3. Well, consider this.
If they were implanted with the wrong embryo, somewhere, someone else was implanted with THEIRS. Or, all theirs were destroyed, or something.

In short, someone else may be pregnant with their biological child. Or their potential children may have been accidentally destroyed.

Wouldn't that upset you? It's not just that they were planning on having a child of their own flesh and blood; it's that this mistake means someone ELSE may be going to have that child, or that child may have been ruined.

How is it any different from if babies were switched in the hospital? No one wants to go home with the wrong baby. You want to go home with YOUR baby.
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Bill McBlueState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #3
32. ok, this is helpful
The article didn't explain as clearly as you did why they're reacting so strongly to this. I thought there might be an element I was missing -- it's the fate of the other embryo. I don't think of an embryo as a child, but some do.
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
4. They're still getting a baby.
They can choose to abort it (not sure how far along she is) or give it up for adoption and try again. If they really wanted a baby, they would do that. Or be content to raise the one already inside her.

Surely, it's shocking and disappointing, but far from the worst news of your life.
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. I too might not say it's the worst news of my life
and I too might say "I'll adopt it," but what if the couple it legally belongs to doesn't want that?

And how are they supposed to overlook the fact that somewhere out there, someone else may be giving birth to and raising the baby that has their DNA? Why should they have to?
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Good points (nt)
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #4
15. They aren't getting a baby. They are giving it to the biological parents at birth.
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. That's good.
Then they can try again.
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #17
24. She cannot medically have another pregnancy. n/t
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #24
34. That's too bad.
Hope they can adopt.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #4
37. No they are not. They have to give the baby to the biological
parents.
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bigwillq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #37
40. Yeah, I got that.
Thanks for responding.
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polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #4
58. self delete
Edited on Wed Sep-23-09 10:54 AM by polmaven
...
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T Wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
5. These people, by "virtue" of their Neanderthal thinking on babies, should be prevented from
having anything to do with children.

It sounds like they only want a baby that mirrors their "perfect" genetics. Fuck them.

There are countless children needing homes and these cretins complain...

Definitely sign that kid up for therapy. Now!
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #5
38. You obviously haven't read the article. They can't keep the child,
they have to give the child up to the biological parents of the child.
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
6. You might read the rest of the story you linked to. They are going to
give the baby to the biological parents after it is born.

Here's another account:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32950836/ns/today-today_hea...
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varelse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Thanks
I hope they will read it. DU sometimes seems to be long on judgement and short on reading, as you say "the rest of the story".
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varelse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Yes, they're just such horrible, horrible child-despising people
Its been hard, Carolyn told Vieira. Weve been rooting for the baby the whole time. We moved from a position of shock to a realization that this was actually going to happen. We needed to put the needs of the pregnancy and the child first. Its just been difficult, but we feel we made the right decisions on how to handle it.

The Savages said the other couple has expressed their gratitude at the Savages decision not to terminate the pregnancy. The Savages told the couple they understand how difficult it is for everyone.

What we expressed to them is that we know they did not ask for this. They were at home with their family minding their own business. We are not going to impress ourselves into their lives, Carolyn told Vieira. Of course, we will wonder about this child every day for the rest of our lives. We have hopes for him, but theyre his parents, and well defer to their judgment on when and if they ever tell him what happened and any contact thats afforded us. We just want to know hes healthy and happy.

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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. Thank you. Actually, this couple sounds very sensible.
Edited on Tue Sep-22-09 08:06 AM by Berry Cool
They have children but wanted one more. They knew that medically this needed to be her last pregnancy. Then they discover that the baby isn't biologically theirs because of a mistake. No wonder they're unhappy. They don't believe in abortion so no matter what, she would have carried the child to term--but she would have done that, and will, knowing it is not hers and that she will be giving it up to the couple to whom it belongs. How heartbreaking it must be for a woman to have to do that after carrying it all that time and giving birth to it.

Then they're going to have to have any more children they want through a surrogate, which they already have planned.

I can sympathize with them. They're doing the right thing by planning to turn the baby over to its parents. And they're not going to demand theirs; they just want to know it's OK.

Big factual error in the story, though. It says they went to "the University of Miami in Ohio." No. No. No. WHY is it so hard for people to understand? The University of Miami is in FLORIDA. Miami University is in OHIO. That simple. You don't have to say "Miami University of Ohio" because there IS no other Miami University, and "University of Miami in Ohio" is just WRONG. *sigh*

(Ed. to reflect that yes, there was a "switch" problem, but they're not even demanding their baby)
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cbdo2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #11
33. there was no "switch" and there is no "other baby"
This couple just got the wrong embryo transferred to them. None of their own embryos were mistakenly transferred to anyone else, so there is no other baby for them to demand custody of.
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #33
47. Thanks for clearing ME up on that.
Somehow I misread something here. When they talk about wanting to know that the baby is healthy and happy, they're talking about the one they're giving birth to that's not theirs, and how they're not going to interfere with its life after they turn it over.

That only impresses me just as much with the fact that they're being very unselfish and compassionate about this whole thing.
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cbdo2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #47
57. The only reason I've been following the story so closely and know so much about it...
is because my wife and I just finished our own IVF transfer yesterday morning, and we turned on the tv in the recovery room and this story came on the Today show literally 10 minutes later. We were a little freaked out, but know this is extremely rare.

I am definitely caught up in the story though and trying to clear up the misconceptions (no pun intended) where I can on DU.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #6
16. ah, i didnt read the whole story. worse news of life tripped me. nt
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
12. I can see they're going to be really good parents.
What a scary thought.


They just see a fat lawsuit.
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. They ARE parents. READ THE FRICKING ARTICLE.
They HAVE children already.

Man, talk about the Du Snap Judgment Club! :grr:
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. that is the comment presented. maybe that should not have neen the one placed
in forefront. maybe the person that put the little snip together is as much at fault.
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #12
25. yeah, that is a really stupid article
She got the wrong embryo implanted. She has a moment to see the child she was forced to carry for another couple for nine months for a few seconds then give the child to it's biological parents. Her embryo was destroyed.

Cruel.
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SPedigrees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
13. Why was was this mistake discovered only at such a late date?
I have read other accounts of people in similar circumstances, and in each case the mistake was only discovered when the woman was close to giving birth.
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cbdo2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #13
31. They were told of the mistake by the doctor within the first couple weeks of it happening.
They just haven't come public with it until now.
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SPedigrees Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #31
42. Oh ok, that sounds better. So they did have time to consider all their options.
Terrible situation for them.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
14. worst news of their life? wow. watch out as parents dude. this isnt it. nt
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. Again, I doubt they need anyone else's lectures on parenting,
given that they already have children. Also, the lack of selfishness they're displaying in a) giving birth to the child that is not theirs and then turning it over to its parents, whom they tracked down and b) not angrily demanding their own child be turned over to them is admirable and speaks well of them as people. I think.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. of course you are right. it was a horrible comment to make i think. but as i said
in post above, the comment tripped me, didnt read the whole aricle. my bad
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
21. "Worst news of their lives"? They never heard of a loved one's passing?
Edited on Tue Sep-22-09 08:17 AM by TwilightGardener
I understand they're upset, but geez...can't they find it in their hearts to love this little mystery baby?--oops, on edit, they're giving the baby away. Oh well.
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #21
26. Their child did die.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Then why that comment? Strange. They've lived through much worse.
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. I was unclear. Let me explain.
They had one frozen embryo left. They decide to try to have a child. That embryo either was disposed of or implanted in someone else and it did not take. They wrong embryo was implanted. They considered their biologic embryo to be their child and it no longer exists. Thus, they think their child died. Am I more clear?
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. From what I read, they still have frozen embryos and are looking for a surrogate
to carry one.
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #30
35. Maybe I am wrong then
It was my understanding that the last one was gone.
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cbdo2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #35
39. No - they have 5 embryos left. They thought they were getting one of those
5 transferred, but really got one of someone elses embryos. So they still have 5 frozen ones left.

This lady can't have any more though for some reason, physically, so the above poster is correct. They are currently looking for a surrogate to try to still have some more kids with those 5 embryos.

Frozen embryo transfer chances of actually working and turning into a baby is only about 20% so even with all 5 of these embryos they'll probably just get one more kid out of it, if any.
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. Then why in the hell did I shoot my mouth off?
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
23. I heard that they have to give the child to the bio parents ...
... that is what I believe to the be the horrifying news to them.

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demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. I'm thinking that their last chance failed
that could be the worse news. Add to that the fact that this could not have been an inexpensive procedure.
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #29
45. It was their last chance to give birth to their own, yes.
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #23
43. No, they are willing to do that. That's not it.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
36. They were told they have to give the child up to the biological
parents.
So how is that for news?
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #36
44. I am sure they would want to anyway. They sound like they are more than willing.
Just sad that this happened in the first place.

Really, this whole thread is like Exhibit A of What Happens When DU'ers Form and Express Opinions About Things After Learning Only Some of the Facts.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
46. They may wonder where their baby is.
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. To clear up all confusion, none of their own embryos was implanted in anyone else,
LUCKILY. At first I thought from the article that that had happened, but no. The bad news is that they have to give birth to a baby they must return to its parents. The good news is they still have five fertilized embryos of their own to try again with. The bad news is, she can't have one of them implanted because she isn't supposed to attempt to go through another pregnancy. So, if they want any more children, the embryos will need to be carried and birthed by a surrogate.

Does that help?
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. If there was a mix up of fertilized embryos, how do they know one of theirs isn't implanted?
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cbdo2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #50
55. There has been none mentioned or reported. It was bad enough for the docs
to have to come clean about the original error that I doubt they would have held this back on them.

I haven't seen it really referred to as a "mix-up" in the sense that they "traded" embryos. Only a mix-up that they took the wrong one out of the freezer, thawed it, and stuck it up the wrong lady's uterus.

It's like going to your freezer and you're watching the football game over your shoulder so you accidentally get out the pepperoni pizza rolls rather than the supreme pizza rolls. This is a "mix-up" cause you got the wrong ones.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. embryos are not Hot Pockets
:evilfrown:
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. Wait for the insurance company to deny coverage.. that's the next shoe to drop
Edited on Tue Sep-22-09 04:14 PM by SoCalDem
In a legal sense, the insurance would probably be within their rights to deny coverage..
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cbdo2007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. True...I don't think the money is going to be a problem for them though...(if you know what I mean)
The fertility clinic is going to pay mucho $$$ for this, to both families.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
49. The family whose embryo they got, wants that baby?
That would be my guess.. Legally that embryo is theirs..they paid to have it made, it's their genetic offspring..

This is why "new" science has some issues :(
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
53. ...
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
54. ...
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