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Fuck Olympia Snowe, bipartisanship, and the 60 vote myth! (And, btw, FUCK insurance profits)!

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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 12:04 PM
Original message
Fuck Olympia Snowe, bipartisanship, and the 60 vote myth! (And, btw, FUCK insurance profits)!
Edited on Fri Sep-18-09 12:12 PM by debbierlus
ENOUGH!

If you DARE try to sell out health care reform to the corporations that are spending hundreds of millions of dollars to buy this legislation, don't think that you will be off the hook politically by passing this off as some sort of bipartisanship compromise and reform!

If bipartisanship is used as a transparent paper thin excuse to sell out your base (which happens to be the MAJORITY, if you recall),
the people will not be fooled. Do not think that you will able to broker some deal with Olympia Snowe and pass it off as the only means of getting health care reform passed. It will be seen and recognized immediately for what it is - a coward's act for political cover to sell out the people. And, frankly, the American people do not want the wet dream corporate health insurance plan that would come from such a betrayal. We NEED real reform and we need it now. Enough is enough.

The cost of health care is LITERALLY killing and bankrupting American citizens. People desperately want a real alternative to purchasing private health insurance because they are AFRAID of the insurance companies. We are afraid they will deny care when we need it most. That is why nearly 80% of the public wants a government insurance option that they can buy into. They want to be PROTECTED from the private health insurers you champion. Many of us can't afford private insurance at all, and it is beyond a sharp betrayal of trust when the industry profits are put above the health of American citizens.

This entire reform has been a big song and dance about the importance of keeping the private insurance company in the business of profiteering off our health care dollars. All this talk of the insurance companies and big pharm being 'the health care stake holders' is just spitting in the face of the American citizen. The American PEOPLE are the health care stake holders, NOT corporations, okay? Get that?

And, further, the 'fair & level' playing field that has been rammed down our throats as a condition of necessary reform. We have to make sure they can keep taking crucial and precious dollars out of the health care system so that CEO executives and stake holders can be paid. We can't have single payer because it would be 'too disruptive' and we need a uniquely American solution to the health care crisis, one which allows administrative costs and bueracracy to trump creating a system where health care dollars are preserved by a government insurance system to provide human beings with ACTUAL HEALTH CARE.

You think the American people give a rat's ass about the health insurance and big pharmaceutical profit? Then, you are crazy. The people HATE the current predatory system. We are SICK TO DEATH of being treated as commodities and consumers (health care CONSUMER, what a gross term), we want to be treated as human beings whose health and well being trump proft.

This whole thing has been a sorry and sad spectacle to watch because the dems should OWN this issue. All you had to do was sell Medicare for all (hell, even the Republicans have been singing Medicare's praises and talking about how THEY will fight to defend it, and you know we are living in a alternate universe when they can pretend to stand on such a platform of championing a program they have sought for years to destroy). The country was SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ready, so hungry for real representation after the last election, you could feel it in the air....you could TASTE it.

You think that the corporate health care campaign dollars and going to be what keeps you in power next election? You think that as long as you can keep the coffers full of corporate dollars, you will be politically safe?

Not only is this calculation as a complete slap in the face to those who trusted you to keep your promise of real change, it is a incredibly STUPID rationale. You see, you are in stark danger of alienating your base (the MAJORITY) and while you appear to think that you can shit on us on a regular basis because the alternative is voting for Republicans, you fail to understand that there comes a breaking point.

Why should we break our backs and give the few dollars we have in our wallets to politicians who will stab us in the back the second they are safely in office? Many will just not show up in 2010, no matter how many commercials you are able to buy with all that money you got for selling us out. And, many will won't show to work on your campaigns. Why the hell would we?

You see, the American people may take a long time to learn a lesson, but once they really get it - you won't keep your power and neither will the Republicans.

The sell-outs will be primaried.

The cowards will be challenged by true democrats. And, all your calculations and selling out for the sole benefit of maintaining your own position in office and position of power, it will be for naught.

And, not only that, you will be forever remembered in the history books as sell-outs to greed and corporate fascism, instead of champions of the people.

You ignore your base (THE MAJORITY) at your own peril. And, betrayal on health care will not go unpunished.

:rant:
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. K&R
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
2. danke (nt)
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Neecy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
3. Excellent rant
K&R
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Oh, I have to add my rant guy to the post! Thanks :)
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Wapsie B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
5. You got it.
Your own peril is right. The Democratic Party is risking everything to appease the gop and blue dogs. Fail on healthcare and I and a lot of others will be voting 3rd party.
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samsingh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
6. 51 is a majority
do left wing votes count less than repug votes?
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. "do left wing votes count less than repug votes?"
In practice, yes.

Because the right can always be counted on to vote a certain way -- no matter how big a mistake they're making.

The left, on the other hand ...

...

...

(IS there really a left?)

...anyway, the Democrats can never really be counted on.

Flame away if you must, but recent history is pretty clear.

Now, if there really were a significant number of Dems on the left (Wellstone types) then we could rely on them to vote in the nation's best interest.
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Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #6
16.  The motion to proceed to the consideration of a conference report...
...being a privileged motion, cannot be filibustered, but the motion to accept the conference report itself can be filibustered.

Which requires cloture to end. Which takes 60 votes. Arithmetic is neither left-wing or right-wing.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Big Deal! So you let the Republicans filibuster, if they dare, until you get 60 votes to end debate

What's the problem with that?
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Janice325 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
7. Thank you.
Great rant! :applause:
k&r
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. We just need to let them know - to the phones & their offices....

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jannyk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
8. k+r
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
10. The 60 vote myth is alive and well here at DU and remains popular.
I still see it cited here.
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Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. The motion to proceed to the consideration of a conference report...
Edited on Fri Sep-18-09 01:02 PM by Davis_X_Machina
...being a privileged motion, cannot be filibustered, but the motion to accept the conference report itself can be filibustered.

Which requires cloture to end. Which takes 60 votes.

Tell me again how it's a myth.
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. It's a myth because Democrats do not have 60 votes in the Senate.
Al Franken has said as much himself.
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Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Today they have 59.
You want HCR to pass, you need one Republican, and perfect party discipline.
Wait for Massachusetts, you still need perfect party discipline.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Wrong. Absolutely wrong! Please stop spreading that nonsense.

We need 50 votes to pass (with Biden casting tie-breaker) a really good healthcare bill, not 60.

So let the Republicans filibuster on the floor of the Senate, if they dare, until we either obtain 60 votes to end debate or use the so-called "nuclear option" to end debate.
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Can you imagine the Republicans hinging legislation on persuading a democrat?
Edited on Fri Sep-18-09 02:28 PM by debbierlus
It never would happen, nor would it need to...

Selling out to corporations is what people expect from Republicans. The democrats, however, need the phony of cover of bipartisanship as the excuse to sell out the people.

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MurrayDelph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #20
31. and why should it not be 59 to break the filibuster?
Before Teddy died, a filibuster could be broken with 60-40. Now, even if those same 40 vote No on cloture, the number should be 59.
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Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. 3/5 of the Senate, not 3/5 of Senators. n/t
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #14
26. I don't think the number is even 59. What about Byrd? Trust Lieberman? n/t
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. They don't need 60 votes, they need 51
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. When the talk is about filibuster and cloture, then the number is 60.
Although we still have some who think the filibuster is the quaint "Mr Smith Goes to Washington".
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Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #25
33. You're dealing with people here...
...who can't -- or won't -- distinguish between the majority needed to carry the main motion, in this case to pass a bill, which needs a minimum of 51 votes (or 50 plus the VP if a tie -- the VP can't vote unless there's a tie), and the motion to end debate -- cloture -- which needs 60. (It was 67 not too long ago...)

Willful ignorance.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #25
40. The Democratic leadership in the Senate makes the rules and can change their rules at anytime.

And the Democratic Party Senate leadership can require a filibustering Senator to stay on the Senate floor for the entire time of the filibuster except to use the bathroom.

I suppose Senator Reid could order a porta poddy for the Senate floor!

:)

So let's get off this nonsense that all the Republicans need to do is "phone in" a fake filibuster to Senator Reid.

OK?

In current practice, Senate Rule 22 permits filibusters in which actual continuous floor speeches are not required, although the Senate Majority Leader may require an actual traditional filibuster if he or she so chooses
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #23
41. 50, I believe.
There are only 99 Senators at the moment. Even if that weren't true, we've got Biden.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #13
47. psst: Don't EVER mention how the REPUKES never needed or SOUGHT "60" votes but rammed ALL their
crap down our throats using DICK CHENEY as the TIE BREAKING VOTE!!!

but go ahead, continue to feed us the "60 vote" myth/CRAP!!!
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. Health Care reform was already part of the budget

The budget has already passed.

As a matter of ammending the budget health care reform can be passed piece by piece as long as it doesn't exceed the expenditures already approved.

The other point is that while there may be Democratic Senators who will vote against the bill it is quite a different thing to cross the aisle and support a Repubican fillibuster so that no vote can be taken. It is much more unlikely that any member of the caucus will take such a brazen move and endanger all of their caucus privledges by deliberately frustrating an up and down vote, especially if they know that if they do so the caucus will simply go ahead with budget reconciliation ammendments and their symbolic stand will have no effect except to ruin their standing in the caucus.

They can vote for cloture and then vote against the bill. We then only need 50 votes to pass health care reform.
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Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #18
34. Key parts of the legislation....
...are non-bugetary -- prohibiting bans on pre-existing conditions, for example, or regulating recission. Even if you pass the subsidies, etc. via reconciliation, the other parts of the reform package would face filibuster.

They can vote for cloture and then vote against the bill. We then only need 50 votes to pass health care reform.

Still need Snowe, and Lieberman, at least until a new senator from MA is seated. I expect Snowe to do precisely this, with perhaps one other GOP senator. This would enable Lieberman to vote against cloture.
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. What has been truly disgusting is all the concessions made that garnered not a single Republican


vote....

And, they know it won't. This just exposes the game. We have to negotiate to get legislation, yet we garner zero support
for doing so, OR we negotiate away everything of value to appease a single Republican. It is just a big con job. The democrats
get to pretend they tried to fight for real reform (after negotiating the reform intended all along behind closed doors
with insurance & pharm reps), and the Republicans can play games to pretend they are fighting for their lunatic base.

It is insanity.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
15. K&R
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
21. Bravo!!
K&R
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
22. k&r.....
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
27. KR!! (how odd - this thread was at +33 when i rec'd, and it went down to +32

instead of up to +34 after my rec! i'm positive that i didn't unrec by mistake. anyway, i'm glad this thread is at least in the positives and highly visible.

i'll be back and comment on this thread later, when i'm at home.)
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
28. Righteous !
:patriot:
K&R
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
29. Kicked and recommended
Thanks for the thread, debbierlus. :thumbsup:
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
30. OK, but you're making one mistake
You ignore your base (THE MAJORITY) at your own peril. And, betrayal on health care will not go unpunished.

The base is most certainly not the majority. The Bush 29%ers thought exactly the same thing. There are more registered independent voters than registered Democrats or Republicans. Never, ever, forget that, because as soon as you think that a base = a majority you are on the road to defeat. It wasn't, it isn't, and it never will be.

Yeah, the Republicans are hyper-partisan. Than they would LOVE to trick us into acting the same way. This is not say we have to play doormat, far from it. But we do have to be patient and let them own crazy.
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #30
37. The majority of people want someone to fight for them, the dems would be amazed

If they just fought the good fight and did the right thing...

People respond to honesty and true leadership, that's what the last election was all about - change, real representation.
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Kansas Wyatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #37
43. There are even a lot of people here on the DU
Who do NOT understand what you just said.
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Ruby the Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #37
52. I fear we are in a lose-lose
If they pass something "bipartisan" without (R) votes and it sucks, we own it. If people hate the end product, we own that too.

Why can't they just go for broke? Why don't they see that this albatross will hang on their collective necks?

Its all just so frustrating.
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lenegal Donating Member (258 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
32. Can't agree more
Fuckem all to hell and back.
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blue neen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
36. My only regret is that I have but one "Recommend" to give to this thread!
:yourock:
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I yet value liberty. Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 01:10 AM
Response to Original message
38. I can't say I am sanguine about the indecorous verb choices (eom)
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. I wish there were stronger verbs to be used to express the outrage

At human beings health being put below corporate profit....

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Kansas Wyatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
42. The Republicans just got the Democrats to cut their own throats.
They baited the Democrats into writing a bill that the Insurance Industry could only dream of, and then the Republicans didn't even vote for it. When all is said and done, the Democrats will use only Democratic votes to get this bill passed, while the Republicans will sit back and tell America how bad Democratic Health Care Reform will be. And you know what? Most people already see how bad it is.

And you know what else? The majority of people in this country will end up hating this fucking gift to the Insurance Industry and the Republicans will slap the Democrats in the face with it every chance they get.

The Great Chess Player just got his ass whipped in checkers by the Republicans, which will reap rewards for the Republicans in the coming years.

The Democrats in Washington just fucked the American People, and this alleged 'health care reform' is fucking pathetic! You dumb fucking bastards in Washington just signed your own pink slips and guaranteed that it will take the Democratic Party a very very long time to ever recover from your alleged 'health care reform.'

To all Democratic politicians and their minions... Good luck in 2010, 2012, etc. etc. When you fuck over your base, do not be surprised that your base is not motivated to get out and actually vote for YOU. Oh, and all those new voters... You just showed them who you really represent, and it isn't the American People, so do NOT ever count on that again.
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #42
51. No, it isn't the Republicans...its the corporations that own both sides

They NEED the Republicans as a cover for betraying the people....that is why you see this bullshit about Olympia Snowe being central to the legislation. We could pass a bill without her. She will only weaken the legislation.

But, they need her to give phony cover for selling out.
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FormerDittoHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
44. AND WHAT ABOUT THE WAR(S)???
I'm sorry.

My memory isn't what it used to be, but it's not so bad to remember when the Repubicans were in power.

They got EVERYTHING they wanted. Even when they dealt with Ted Kennedy, they managed to screw the people over.

It wasn't just the president. I remember the congress and senate they controlled by RAZOR THIN MAJORITIES.

THEY DID *EVERYTHING THEY WANTED*, and CONTINUED AFTER 2006.

WHEN IT CAME TO STOPPING THE WAR AFTER 2006, IT *SUDDENLY* WE NEEDED VETO PROOF MAJORITIES.

We couldn't do ANYTHING to even INHIBIT the wars....?

AND NOW, we need Filibuster proof majorities?

This isn't the first time I'm writing this, but the Dems are on notice.

Stop all this bullshit.

GET SOMETHING DONE.

NO MORE MONEY UNTIL I HAVE SOMETHING TO SHOW FOR THE MONEY I'VE ALREADY GIVEN.
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voteearlyvoteoften Donating Member (548 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
45. efffing right
No more politics as usual
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Kermitt Gribble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
46. Hell Yeah!!! K&R!!!
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daleanime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
48. Thank You....
I don't care if we have to fight over this reform for the next two years, better we get it right and late, then get it wrong and now.
:bounce:



Of course right and now would be nice.
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Ruby the Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
49. So, I wrote my rep (R-Clueless) and gave him a piece of my mind on this. He wrote back
with a copy/paste screed about how a public option will be a disservice because the private insurers (and the multi-million dollar CEOs and Wall Street backers) wouldn't be on a level playing field to compete with the government.

That left me positively speechless as to his blatent admission as to where his priorities are.
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. They don't even try to hide it anymore...either side.
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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
53. kick! nt
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tooeyeten Donating Member (441 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-19-09 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
54. Agreed, I'm tired
of donating my hard earned money to these bastards, while they treat us the insureds as just stupid and not entitled to what we paid for.
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