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Thank you, Rachel. Perhaps you even touched some DUers

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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 10:56 PM
Original message
Thank you, Rachel. Perhaps you even touched some DUers
when you said that the most important news of today, that if nothing else, this is the news that should have been watched, was the awarding of the Congressional Medal of Honor to Jared Monti.

In most cases, when I try to post a story to the LBN, it has already been posted. So I was surprised, at mid morning, when that story was not.

The reaction on DU was huh-hum, with some negative comments. I thought that one lesson we learned from Vietnam is that no matter how much we object to a war, we do not trash the troops. And the ones who did post a positive reaction have "low count" which, I suppose, in DU lingo they are trolls, of course

:sarcasm:

Sad.

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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. I think it is great to honor him, but you can honor him without attacking DUers
It is important to honor the troops that died, but let us never forget that they were killed in a war that should have never been fought and the people who lied us into these wars need to be held accountable for the death of our troops and the civilians of Iraq and Afghanistan.
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RagAss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Yes...Soldiers do not get to vote on the war. They serve without question.
God Bless them for that.

And now the liars who invented this war need to answer.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. Which makes them no better than machines.
Edited on Fri Sep-18-09 12:41 AM by JackRiddler
Some of them more than questioned their blind servitude in Vietnam. They revolted, and helped hasten the end of the atrocities the US military committed against that nation. Notwithstanding that Sgt. Monti was brave, he had no business in Afghanistan. Maddow's treatment of this ceremony as some kind of holy, must-see story is her own way of enlisting in the current Afghanistan propaganda surge.

The soldiers who refuse and resist, and give new life to the best of the ideals that first animated this country: they are the ones who deserve the medals.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. +1 nt
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. No need to take on people
who don't share your tender sensibilities. No need at all.

I saw part of the ceremony, and all I could think of was the horrific waste, how that poor young man died for absolutely nothing, in a country where we don't belong, for a reason that doesn't exist. And, yes, it's all very sad, but, ultimately, it turns out to be a glorification of war and all the things that attach to war.

I'd rather not watch that sort of thing, and you can call me a troll, or find fault with my reasoning, but I would urge you to remember that tolerance of the beliefs of others is one of the characteristics that differentiate us from the rightwingnuts, at the very best of times.

That this needs to be pointed out, well, that's truly sad.........................
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
3. a Medal of Honor awarding ceremony is important news how?
:shrug:
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
5. I saw the story on Rachel's show. I was immensely saddened.
I don't trash Sgt. Monti's bravery, his loyalty to his fellow soldiers, or anything else. But while his heroism is noble and worth recognizing, it's also heroism -- and lives -- spent in such futility.

Perhaps the most telling aspect was Rachel's observation that the Medal of Honor is almost always given posthumously. So were Sgt. Monti's parents honored to have a medal, or would they much rather have had their son alive?

It's a fine line we walk when we say we hate the war but we support the troops. I certainly believe that most people who join the American military do so out of noble motivations. But there is also a part of me that says to them, "You joined knowing the risks. Not only the risks to yourself, your life, your health, but the risks to your psyche, to your family, to all those with whom you will come in contact with."

During the first Gulf War I worked with a young woman whose older sister had been deployed to Kuwait. The sister had had to leave her comfortable stateside post and go into a dangerous combat zone. The young woman I worked with was nearly hysterical the day she got the call from her parents about the deployment. "But that's not what she joined the army for!" she wailed. "She just wanted to get a free education on the GI bill!"

She apparently forgot about the price of that "free" education.

And I'm not saying that's what Jared Monti's motivation was. But it is the military and these things -- wars -- do happen. So do car accidents and lightning strikes and cancer and all the other causes of untimely deaths.

So why was Jared Monti singled out, AFTER his death, to be recognized for his bravery? I don't know. But I do think it's a sad commentary on our culture that we save our highest awards for dead soldiers and almost never recognize the living heroes who are around us every day. Jared Monti failed in his mission to save his fallen comrade. He sacrificed his own life in a sense for nothing. Obviously he had no way of knowing that he would die in this failed attempt, and we all have a certain sense of our own immortality. But it seems to me that we have plenty of people who are doing plenty of brave things on a daily basis and succeeding at it, and we never even know about them.


I'm sorry as hell that Jared Monti and his companions died. I could care less about the stupid medal.



Tansy Gold
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Sukie Donating Member (563 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. But that stupid medal means the world to his family now.
It's best to allow those who want to honor the troops with messages the chance and those who don't should just stay off the threads and be respectful in that way. We don't always catch all the threads, since DU can be fast paced. I posted this story on another site I frequent and it means the world to me also, since my son is a reservist who has been to Iraq. I wish both damned wars were over and done with, but I honor all those who would serve so that we don't have to.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Not t be disrespectful, but how do you know that medal means the world to them?
They don't have their son.

Which would you rather have? A medal, or your son?

Don't you think, given the choice, they'd just as soon have their son than a medal?

I have a son, and two grandsons. I know which choice I'd make.


I've not trashed anyone else's opinion. But when you post here on DU, you have to be prepared for some not to 100% agree with you. And since there are a lot of us who disagree with the war, and a lot of us who have mixed feelings about an all-volunteer military that sometimes does unsavory things to meet its recruiting goals, well, it's likely that not all of us are going to be moved the same way others are by a medal of honor ceremony, or even by the sacrifice of some of those members of the military.

Back in late 2002 or early 2003, during the run-up to the Iraq invasion, there was a DUer who went by the name of FalconAir. She claimed to be either active duty military or reserve or some such, and iirc she claimed her husband was an Air Force pilot. She got us into some pretty nasty flame wars because she categorically insisted that no member of the US military would ever commit any kind of atrocities. There would be no "collateral damage" because bombing runs were so precise. We now know that her assessment was wrong. We know that American military personnel are capable of some pretty nasty behavior. And we also know that American military personnel are capable of great nobility and honor and sacrifice.

We can never regain what we've lost in Afghanistan or in Iraq. Honoring the dead is fine, but I think we'd do much better if we honor the living -- by stopping the killing.



Tansy Gold
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tularetom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
6. Hey, some of us have other things to do
Sorry I missed your post but I'm in the process of remodeling an old house which takes me away from my puter for a few hours each day.

I saw the tribute on Rachel's show tonight and was moved by it. I'm not a troll, I've been around here for a few years.
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Bigmack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 12:51 AM
Response to Original message
10. Every time I see a story ....
like this I can't help but think that the world would be a better place if a brave, selfless man like Monti were still in it.

What good things might he have accomplished? That selflessness is in short supply these days. Doctor, maybe... teacher.... writer.... cleric...

Instead he died in some nameless, forgetable shithole .....for nothing. Because this country sent him.

The country is unworthy of the bravery of that young man. Perhaps the good that can come out of his death is to help convince more of us to get out of there before more Jared Montis lose their lives.
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kelly1mm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
12. Rachel has been (self?) described as a "national security liberal"
and I think her commentary on national security issues is when she is on her A game. Certainly adds a different dimension to the arguments and I find her thought provoking, compelling, and educational. She slips a bit when trying to out clown KO who has raised that to an art form. I think she should mold her show as the "policy wonk show", let CM be the "inside politics show", Ed be the outside the beltway / union / progressive show and let KO keep making fun of RW antics. But I don't run MSNBC.

I thought the piece you referenced was great. One of Rachel's best.

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