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Double Standard for Serena Williams (Important reading for all women and people of color)

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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 07:55 PM
Original message
Double Standard for Serena Williams (Important reading for all women and people of color)
Edited on Thu Sep-17-09 07:56 PM by Nikki Stone1
From THE NATION

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090928/zirin


A top-ranked tennis player in a moment of rage cursed out a judge and shocked the world, headlining every sports and news program from ESPN to MSNBC. Meanwhile, another champion tennis player hurled expletives at a judge and the media barely yawned. While the tennis world still reels from Serena Williams's f-bomb-laced tirade against a line judge on September 12, the "classy" Roger Federer pulled a similar tantrum two days later and didn't get half as much coverage.
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In US Open finals on September 14, Federer lost in five sets to the previously unheralded Juan Martn del Potro. In a tense third set, after a challenge by del Potro, Federer became infuriated with the line judge. After the judge told Federer to settle down, he said, "Don't tell me to be quiet, OK? I don't give a (expletive) what (del Potro) said, OK?" The 6-foot-6 power-serving Argentinean frustrated Federer throughout, and the favored player lost his famous cool. But after the match, there were no press conference apologies from Federer. And there were no calls for him to be suspended, fined or sanctioned. This despite the fact that his profanity was directed toward del Potro, a serious breach in tennis etiquette...

The behavior of Federer and Williams in these matches are examples of bad sportsmanship at its worst. But the double standard is enough to make you want to swallow your tennis ball. When Williams lost it on the court, she later apologized and admitted idolizing tennis's infamous enfant terrible John McEnroe. ...The question is not whether Williams was right or Federer was wrong. They were both wrong. The question is whether hypocrisy is acceptable. The double standard is obvious if we perform the gender flip test: if Williams were a man, would her behavior have been met with similar outrage?

To ask the question is to answer it: from McEnroe to Jimmy Connors, male players who blow their tops are part of tennis lore. McEnroe has repeatedly made calls for current pros to not be "robots" and have the "passion" he displayed. But in the country-club white-skirt-and-ponytail world of women's tennis, different behavior is expected. Williams, to put it mildly, doesn't wear white. She is the person who introduced the "cat suit" to the tennis court. Her physical dominance is heretical to demure expectations that still permeate the sport....When you couple gender expectations with racial ones, the inconsistency is no longer just obvious, it's glaring. ...


MORE AT THE LINK
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. I don't think it's the same thing at all
I'm too young to remember the McEnroe era so I won't comment on his outbursts, of which I have only seen "best of" highlight reels over the years.

Federer stayed seated on his bench and shook his head while quietly complaining. Serena Williams advanced toward the lineswoman screaming at the top of her lungs and waving her racquet in front of her. The only thing the two incidents have in common is the cursing. The behavior of both was totally different. And regardless of whether or not there were calls for Federer to be sanctioned, he is getting sanctioned anyway, though for a smaller amount.
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. +1. Thank you. I watched both matches. The incidents are not comparable
except for profanity. And Serena's profanity was much worse than Federer's, at that.
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. I wonder if the people complaining of racism and sexism downthread even saw what happened
in both or either cases. They aren't remotely comparable.
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Mosby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. nasty threw a shoe at a ref
nothing happened to him but after all he's white.
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #22
91. That's not true at all...he was disqualified...stop making things up
to justify your ignorance of the game.
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Mosby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #91
100. was he fined 10 grand?
was he suspended from the sport?

Was he prosecuted for assault?

And yet Serena because she went off on a ref is now facing a possible suspension and has been fined 10 thousand dollars.
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City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #100
120. McEnroe was fined $10,000 and suspended for two months for violations at the US Open.
Edited on Fri Sep-18-09 07:24 PM by City Lights
McEnroe Suspended, Fined

September 25, 1987

NEW YORK John McEnroe's appeal was denied today and he has been suspended for two months and fined $10,000 for violating provisions of the Code of Conduct governing tournaments sanctioned by the Men's International Professional Tennis Council, the group announced.

The suspension, which begins Monday and ends Nov. 27, resulted from his accumulation of fines exceeding $7,500 for the second time this year after McEnroe was fined $7,850 for four violations at the U.S. Open championships this month.

http://articles.latimes.com/1987-09-25/news/mn-6773_1_m...


He was disqualified from the Australian Open in January of 1990.

January 21, 1990
John McEnroe disqualified from the Australian Open

On January 21, 1990, at the Australian Open in Melbourne, American tennis player John McEnroe becomes the first player since 1963 to be disqualified from a Grand Slam tournament for misconduct.

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history.do?action=Ar...


He was also fined for an outburst at Wimbeldon in 1991.

<snip>

Of course, the road to the finals was full of confrontations. In his first match, there was his infamous blowup when McEnroe verbally blasted umpire Ted James, calling him "the pits of the world," and then cursed tournament referee Fred Hoyles. He was fined $1,500. The Fleet Street journalists savagely ripped him.

http://espn.go.com/classic/biography/s/McEnroe_John.htm...


Another source indicates he was fined $17,500 in 1987.

<snip>

In 1987, McEnroe didn't win a title for the first time since turning pro. He took a seven-month break from the game following the U.S. Open, where he was suspended for two months and fined $17,500 for misconduct and verbal abuse.

http://espn.go.com/classic/biography/s/McEnroe_John.htm...


Where's the double-standard again?

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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #17
57. Some aren't even interested where right & wrong lie.
They're just glad for an opportunity to patronize their pet demographic and congratulate themselves for their own saintliness.
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Solomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #57
75. LOL as you yourself are also doing.
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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #75
83. Ah yes, I'm an Asian woman....
... & always take the side of female Asian line judges! But, nice try, be sure and play again.
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #9
47. I watched both matches. Agree with you.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #9
71. It's sloppy reporting like this that makes me question every outlet.
People like to hold up The Nation as if they're always outstanding in their reporting.

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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
35. i agree
i don't recall mcenroe THREATENING a judge ever.

and i doubt federer did.

WILLIAMS *did*.

yelling at an ump is one thing

threatening them is metric assloads of suckitude worse
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TxRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
40. I thought she threatened to shove a ball down the judges throat..
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #40
114. I think the threat involved a different orifice, but it was something like that
:nuke:
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JimGinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
78. Exactly!
I'm a big tennis fan & I saw both matches as well. Federer didn't cuss until the umpire told him to shut up & certainly didn't act in a threatening manner.


Apples - oranges.
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krawhitham Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
121. Serena threatened the lines woman Federer just bitched
"The foot fault was a terrible call, and it cost Williams the match"

and whoever wrote the article is crazy, Serena lost in straight sets but the author clams one foot fault call cost her the match.

The match was not close, the author is has a crush on Serena
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Beer on a stick Donating Member (421 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #121
139. Notice how the OP posted and then, apparently, evaporated.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. As described, those two situations seem very different to me.

Yelling directly at a line judge that you want to shove a tennis ball down her throat (Serena) and using the f-word as an adjective (Roger) seem like different types of outbursts.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Serena also used the F word. nt
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. Roger said the word "shit." I saw it live and did not hear the F-word.
Serena is the one who used the F-word.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. Thank you, I assumed at least that was the same.
The writers in the OP is really stretching it, it seems to me.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
27. the call aga. serena was actually a shitty unfair call
THAT to me is the difference, she was provoked beyond reason if you ask me

this is her livelihood they're fucking with when they are careless with their calls
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #27
36. Even if it was a bad call, quasi-physical threats are not appropriate.


You appeal to the chair umpire or/and you swallow your anger and play.
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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 09:56 PM
Original message
oh please
the judge made a bad call. it happens

it does not justify her THREATENING the judge.

that clearly crosses the line.

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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #27
76. Still not appropriate. Bad calls by sports officials are something a pro needs to deal with.
I played competitive tennis as a teen during the McEnroe era--the idea is to bully the officials and take an unfair advantage. Federer and Williams were both using the same tactic and both should be penalized--but I saw both matches, and Serena's behavior was much worse.

I stress again that BOTH should have been defaulted, IMHO.
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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #27
102. What, they don't have a right to call a foot fault?
I umped vollyeball for a while but I quit because I got so sick of people griping when I called a foot fault. There are players who consistently push this rule in tennis.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #102
109. Especially big servers--
and Serena, like most aggressive players male and female, is a big server.
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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #109
110. Yep.
They draw the lines for a reason.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-20-09 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #27
146. I thought her foot clearly touched the line.
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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
37. yes
one is a THREAT , the other is a tirade.

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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
3. Her outburst was unacceptable, but men get away with it. Sally Jenkins said something similar here
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...

That seems to be a shorter version than in the paper.

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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
98. No, they don't and Serena didn't foreit or get kicked out of the match...
...she was simply assessed a point for her SECOND warning...she broke a racket earlier...please white players get warnings also...she would have gotten a second warning even if her mouth wasn't so filthy and even if she obviously has issues with her temper and ego.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
5. And now everyone will nitpick any little difference to justify the complete lack of Federer poutrage
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petronius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #5
33. You must have a strange definition of "any little difference" (nt)
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jesus_of_suburbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
137. Everyone on this board knows your game.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #5
140. And now Bloo will make another empty, vapid, and cowardly post to justify his inability to think.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
6. Thanks
I've sent this to a few friends since we were discussing the double standard on Monday.
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BoneDaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
7. puhlease
enough of the lame apologists out there. The media attacked them for their bad behavior then and Serena deserved it as well. Maybe years down the road after Serena has mellowed and can laugh about her antics, we can put her into the lore of tennis as an overly luvable aggressive player, but enough of this nonsense.
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dolphindance Donating Member (283 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
8. I think Serena's conduct was slightly more severe, but the article is correct about ...
how quickly certain tennis "fans" turned on Serena when she went astray. I don't see that happening with a pretty white player. It is also disheartening that some of the jeers were from Americans.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #8
130. mcenroe was booed plenty.
In 1980 McEnroe reached the men's singles final at Wimbledon for the first time, where he faced Borg, who was aiming for an Open Era record fifth consecutive Wimbledon title. At the start of the final McEnroe was booed by the crowd as he entered Centre Court following his heated exchanges with officials during his semi-final clash with Jimmy Connors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borg%E2%80%93McEnroe_rival...
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dolphindance Donating Member (283 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #130
134. Yeah, but he was overseas. Serena got turned on by her own country. Shameful. (n/t)
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #134
136. "plenty" = that wasn't the first or last time.
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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
11. Serena threatened a judge, which neither Federer or McEnroe did.
There's a difference between simply cursing during a game, or even cursing at a judge, and openly making a threatening comment. It's hard to argue that , "I swear to God I'm fucking going to take this fucking ball and shove it down your fucking throat, you hear that? I swear to God." wasn't intended to be an intimidating and threatening statement toward the judge.

That's why she's being blasted. Not because she cursed, but because she threatened someone.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. I thnk Serena is a TERRORIST.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #15
68. Dude...that's stupid even by your standards.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #68
82. lol
:rofl:
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jesus_of_suburbia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #68
138. Really? Have you read his posts?
Common.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #15
144. Nah just a pretentious little rich girl with a bad temper.
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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #11
39. exactly
you can't compare a tirade to a THREAT

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gbate Donating Member (900 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #11
74. McEnroe never, ever threatened a judge? Really?? I find that hard to believe.
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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #74
84. No, never.
he screamed, he cursed, he threw rackets at the nets, but he never threw one at a judge or said anything threatening to them. He behaved poorly, but he didn't threaten anyone.
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Mosby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
12. Black athletes are held to a different standard
I think that should be obvious by now.

Mcenroe screamed at judges, pulled down his pants and mooned the ref, threw his racket across the court and yet no one called for him to be banned or suspended from the sport. Nasty, Aggasi and Conners all threw tantrums on the court but it's just cute when they do it. But when a black athlete does it's SCARY. Fucking BS.
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ampad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Yup
Serena had to be put in her place.
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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #16
94. Really?
"Serena Jameka Williams (born September 26, 1981) is an American professional tennis player. She has been ranked World No. 1 by the Women's Tennis Association (WTA) on four separate occasions; as of July 27, 2009, she is ranked World No. 2. She is the reigning Australian Open and Wimbledon singles champion and has won 23 Grand Slam titles: 11 in singles, ten in women's doubles and two in mixed doubles. In addition, she has won two Olympic gold medals in women's doubles. She also has won more Grand Slam titles than any other active female player and has won more career prize money than any other female athlete in history. In 2005, Tennis Magazine ranked her as the 17th-best player in 40 years."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serena_williams

When someone has reached that level of success in ANY endeavor, just how do you go about "putting them in their place"? Are you fucking kidding? What could be done to put her "in her place"?

The call was a good one. See the picture below. She was well over the line. She threatened to shove a motherfucking tennis ball down a judge's motherfucking throat. And to top it all off, she was only penalized a SINGLE point.

No matter how badly some want to inject racism or sexism into this situation, it wasn't there.

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Gwendolyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #12
24. You yourself refer to the Bucharest Buffoon as "Nasty."

Then it bothers you that someone referred to "Scary Serena." I love this place. :)
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Mosby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. because that was his nickname - I didn't give it to him
your not claiming that serena's nickname is "scary" are you? Because it's not it's "momma smash"
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Gwendolyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Female tennis players are referred to by all kinds of names.

Scary, lesbian, slut... you name it, depending on the particular scandal of the moment. Black, white, they all get it. I don't think calling Serena scary over her display is any different than any of the other names females players have been anointed with.

You may not have given Nasty his nick, but you're contributing to this image of him as a petulant, nasty boy player. What's the diff if people also do it to the girls.
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Mosby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. I'm sure they are
but people here and around the web have been describing her BEHAVIOR as scary, do you really think that if it were a white woman or man throwing the tantrum that particular descriptor would be used? I don't think so.
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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #29
42. bull
why do you ignore the issue?

she did not merely throw a tantrum. She THREATENED the judge.

not even close to analogous

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Gwendolyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #29
131. To be honest, I laughed a little at the sight of the tiny lineswoman running away.

I like Serena and think she adds pizzazz to the sport, but if I had been sitting in that chair facing her down, I would've been "scared shitless," yes. I just wouldn't have humiliated myself by running away. I'd have chanced a thwack to the head with a tennis racket, if it came down to that.

As far as the "scary" business goes, I've just googled Serena/tennis/scary and can't find a thing. Someone started a thread here with no links, context or quotes, so I'm loathe to believe this whole brouhaha was anything more than one poster's rant against "bleached blonde b*tches" which is the phrase that opened the OP. If you have links showing this is making the rounds around the web and has some factual basis for concern about racism, please post them.
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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #12
41. BS yourself
she THREATENED the judge.

if you can't see the difference between threats and profanity, then you need to go back to elementary school

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Aragorn Donating Member (784 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #12
59. no sense?
or no memory? Don't any of you remember when McEnroe was in trouble? Do you recall the probations and fines? WHat a selective memory! Almost like a - double standard.

Want an easy list? Try Wikipedia. "John McEnroe"

Jerk! You cannot be serious!
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DatManFromNawlins Donating Member (640 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #12
69. Bullshit
McEnroe was suspended, fined, and kicked out of Wimbeldon.

Williams THREATENED a judge with bodily harm and lost *A* point and was allowed to play in the doubles matches with her sister.

Buy a fucking clue.
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Nye Bevan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #12
89. YES- I bet if Pete Rose was a *white* guy
he would be in the Hall of Fame by now.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-20-09 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #12
147. Tiger gets the shaft every week by the officials. It's cost him countless tournaments.
:sarcasm:
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Indigent Donating Member (89 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
13. I think a man would have been treated the same. Joe Wilson was rebuked, for example
Edited on Thu Sep-17-09 08:29 PM by Indigent
And he's a man. Then we have Hillary Clinton, who was not the victim of sexism during the primaries according to the consensus here. If this country had a double standard then Hillary would have been victim of sexism.
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Boy do you have a lot
to learn. I don't know if you're welcome here or not.

I left DU during the Primaries because of all the hatred toward women that was spewed around here.

If you don't know what Patriarchy is, you better go read up.

Sexism permeates the air. I feel as if I'm back in the 1960's and have to fight the same battles as we did then.

If a woman Representative had yelled, 'You lie,' she would have been more than rebuked. Women are NOT allowed to display anger. Women are to be nurturing and have a smile on her face at all times. Oh and don't forget the lipstick.

Why do I bother?
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
14. Women aren't allowed to
display anger in this patriarchy. Next thing you know, the woman is declared crazy and hysterical.

But the boys can throw huge fits.

K and r.
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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #14
43. rubbish
she is being rebuked because she threatened the judge

that is not merely "throwing a fit"

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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #43
60. Did you ever see mcenroe
or connors?

or ilie nastisie?"
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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #60
73. yes
i don't recall them ever threatening a judge like williams did. *if* they did, i am more than happy to be corrected

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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #60
79. Yes, and Billie Jean King, and Virginia Wade, and all the Virginia Slims tour pioneers.
With the glaring exceptions of Margaret Court, evonne goolagong, and Chris Evert, temper-laden all.

Methinks you aren't a big tennis fan. I was a competitive player and remain a huge fan. Federeer and Williams both should have forfeited--but Serena was much worse.
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #79
93. wrong, wrong and wrong...if you're such a big tennis fan you would know that Serena
did not forfeit, she was penalized a point which happened to be match point because it was her second warning.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #93
106. She SHOULD have been forfieted. I know what happened, I watched it.
Good lord, everyone is tetchy for a Friday afternoon around here.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #14
77. You may want to look up Billie Jean King; pioneer of women's tennis; who paved the way for
Serena and crew.

She was VERY well-known for her temper--and today is a hero to millions--as she should be. Without her courage, there would be no Serena--but an angel on the court she was anything but.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #77
132. known for her temper? i don't think so. pioneer? not exActly.
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HipChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
19. Either Racism or Sexism or both, she said Freakin' not F-Word..
Edited on Thu Sep-17-09 08:40 PM by HipChick
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Lochloosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Sorry. She said Fuck.
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Mosby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. who fucking cares
Edited on Thu Sep-17-09 09:01 PM by Mosby
Ilie Natase threw a fucking shoe at a ref (hitting him) and mooned another. It didn't even cost him a point.
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MellowDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #23
51. So what?
I don't know much about tennis, but when did that happen? If ANYONE had thrown a shoe at a judge in this last tournament, it would have cost them more than a point. I think comparing players from a different era is kinda dumb.
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Mosby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #51
58. I'm comparing behavior not stats
I'll concede that behavioral expectations in today's professional tennis are higher than in the past, but it's significant that outbursts on the court from white men in particular are seen in a humorous way but when a black woman engages in that type of behavior it's described as "scary".
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
26. yeah i saw that too...nothing aga. federer but WHEN will women be equal?
the call aga. serena was shitty and i don't blame her for a few choice words, they were better left unsaid but c'mon there's a lot of people who would have said a lot of swears in her situation

i noticed myself that federer did the same

it's ok because no one expects federer to be "ladylike"

these are both top athletes, a match should be decided on the basis of the play, not on the basis of how many f-bombs serena dropped

we ALL know in our hearts that she was judged differently than the man in a similar situation (except she had more provoking, and was prob. more justified in her outburst, because the call aga. her was SOOOO shitty)

my humble opinion only -- i don't justify either of them having a temper tantrum but of the two honestly serena had a damn good reason but no one cares because it was unladylike
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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #26
45. rubbish
federer did not do the same.

he did not threaten the judge

if serena had been receiving harsher treatment for doing the same thing as federer, your argument would make sense

but she threatened the judge. much worse than a childish tantrum
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City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #26
123. Women will be equal with men in tennis when they play 5-set matches in GS tournaments.
Right now they're earning the same pay for playing 3-set matches.


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Zywiec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
30. Good grief, they were totally different. n/t
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johnnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
31. My take
I have never heard of Federer, but I know who Serena Williams is. I'm sorry, but this country is legendary for creating superstars and tearing them down as quick as we can. Serena Williams was in the spotlight because of who she is, not what she is. Of course everything in this day and age is an ism.
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kwassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #31
38. um, Federer is considered the best player in the game, ever.
and you haven't ever paid any attention to tennis, have you? Particularly in the past half-dozen years.

Serena is a great champion, too.
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johnnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #38
46. Nope
I pay no attention to tennis along with millions of other people. Those same people would also know the name Serena Williams and not Federer. THAT was my point.
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kwassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #46
54. You are very wrong.
Federer is easily as well known in this country as Serena. He has dominated men's tennis for quite awhile, with only serious challengers in the past couple of years from Nadal, someone else you don't know, and now Del Potro, someone you know even less.

Don't mistake your ignorance for the general level of public knowledge. Yours is yours alone.
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johnnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #54
62. I just asked a Friend of mine if she knew each name
She said she knew who Williams was and never heard of the other. So I guess you are the one that is wrong.
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kwassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #62
63. I see. One other data point is convincing argument.
Your friend being representative of the general American public and all.

This is like, wow, science!

How did you find such a representative friend?
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johnnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #63
72. Yeah
I figured since you were stating truths based on no facts that all I needed was one other "data point" and my two beats your none.
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Petrushka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #72
103. If you like, you can make it 6 - 0 . . .
. . . 4 non-spectator-sports-minded people here . . . so . . .
not recognizing any tennis stars' names.

:hide: :yoiks:
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johnnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #103
124. No, you are wrong too
Everyone, with the exception of my friend and me, knows who they both are according to kwassa.
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Petrushka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #124
135. In that case . . .
:P


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Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #62
118. That just means your friend is ignorant too.
I'm not a big follower of tennis and I know who Federer is.
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johnnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #118
122. Of copurse we are ignorant
That's the freaking point. We are ignorant of tennis players along with many other people. But we know know who the "superstars" are. Thanks for supporting my stance on this.
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kwassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #122
133. Federer is a superstar.
the most super of superstars in tennis.

I did a google search of Federer and superstar and got about 255,000 hits.

here is just a couple.

http://www.cleveland.com/sports/index.ssf/2009/08/seren...



Serena Williams, Roger Federer bring their superstar games to chase another U.S. Open title
by Liz Clarke/Washington Post
Monday August 31, 2009, 12:06 AM

.......................

On the men's side of this year's U.S. Open, the presumptive favorite is also the defending champion -- Roger Federer, who elevated the notion of what's possible in men's tennis yet again this summer by claiming his 15th major title with a five-set victory over Andy Roddick at Wimbledon.

In doing so, Federer reclaimed the No. 1 ranking he had ceded to Rafael Nadal last August and bolstered his case as the greatest player of all time -- status four-time U.S. Open champ John McEnroe accorded him even before his latest feat.



want another one? I've got a million of them.

http://www.panaynewsphilippines.com/sports%203.htm

NEW YORK Swiss superstar Roger Federer was slapped with a $1,500-fine by the United States Tennis Association on Thursday for a heat of the battle argument with a US Open official.

Federer used a profanity when talking with the chair umpire during the final in New York on Sunday which he eventually lost to Argentina's Juan Martin Del Potro.

CBS microphones picked up the exchange during its live broadcast of the match.

Federer's fine pales in comparison to Serena Williams who was docked $10,000 for threatening to shove a ball down the throat of a female line judge in an expletive-laden tirade in her final singles match.



You are just more ignorant than you thought you were. I never said that there were only two of you, you and your friend, but being proud of one's ignorance is not an admirable quality in anyone.

and you can thank me now for enlightening you.
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johnnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #133
141. I just asked my sister too
She never heard of the guy either. She knew who Williams was though. As I was talking to her she was flipping through the tv and came upon QVC that had Williams selling her purses. My sister said "Maybe that other dude will be on next" We laughed. Everyone I know is ignorant about tennis players. Keep Googlin'..it's funny.
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Threedifferentones Donating Member (820 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #141
149. What's funny is that you think you get to decide who a superstar is based on who you have heard of.
Will Federer be a superstar in your next conversation because you have heard of him now? Either way, he has been world-famous for years now, and your posts here have been irrelevant.

BTW, I am not a tennis fan. If you had asked me to name famous current tennis players, I could have come up with the Williams sisters and Maria Sharapova for women, and Federer and Nadal for men. If you caught any news story about men's tennis in the past few years, you would have heard about the rivalry between those two.
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ncteechur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
32. wrong analysis I believe
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
34. A double standard would assume the exact same circumstances
By my reckoning, Serena's outburst went a lot further than Federer's.

Just my take.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
44. Did Federer wave his racket like a club and threaten to
shove the ball down the umpire's throat?

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Holly_Hobby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
48. Tiger Woods says, "Fuck!" on camera at least 5 or 6 times every
weekend he plays. Anyone can read his lips.

There is never any outrage from the golf world.

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MellowDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #48
52. Shhhhhh!!!
It's racism I tells ya!!!! Stop destroying my incredibly simplistic worldview with critical thinking!!!! ARAGEAGGGGGG!!!!!!
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bullwinkle428 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #48
66. "No outrage from golf world"? BULL! FUCKING! SHIT!
I've been playing and following the game for over 30 years, and spend plenty of time on golf-related boards. There are countless loads of pearl-clutching Tiger-haters that obsess over every little thing the guy does that could be subject to criticism, and make countless proclamations to the effect that he's the Anti-Christ of golf!

ESPN's Rick Reilly gave these "birther" types more red meat with a column written just a few weeks back, just to put another hole in the argument that he's somehow immune from media criticism...

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=...
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cherokeeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #66
97. HA. My pop won't watch a tournament if he's playing. "Ruined the game with his FIST PUMP". n/t
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Holly_Hobby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #66
127. Um
I never see this golf world outrage filter through to the MSM.

Tiger is their bread and butter. Without Tiger, the only thing left is a boring, white, male elitist game. Golf would have died a slow, painful death without Tiger. Who wants to pay to see Phil Mickelson? :rofl:

And Tiger still swears in front of the camera, without fines or rebukes. If there were any true outrage, it would surface every Monday on CNN.



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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-20-09 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #48
148. I never heard him threaten to shove a club down someones throat.
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kwassa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
49. I think the outrage a bit faux.
Tennis has a cultural stereotype of being a polite game, when it requires great focused emotional intensity sustained over long periods of time.

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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #49
53. Interesting point. If there exists an extra layer of expectations of suppressed "ladylike" behavior
in the women's game, Serena could have been holding that outburst in for a long long time.
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brindis_desala Donating Member (866 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #53
64. :thumbsup: perceptive mind meet crux
Add race and background to the mix and you have cauldron of simmering anxieties. Can the caged bird sing?
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #64
115. Painful to imagine the power in that toned instrument
Edited on Fri Sep-18-09 05:06 PM by omega minimo
repressed.



Very nice to see you BD :hi:

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MellowDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
50. If this is double standard...
then I'm guessing it is important reading for everyone, including men (of non-color?) But it's not, the situations were remarkably different actually. Just don't let that stop you from trying to generate false outrage and division.
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Seeking Serenity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #50
55. Woo-hoo! More division! More! More! More!
Let's do out part to keep everybody at each other's throat. Yeah, that's the ticket.
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Aragorn Donating Member (784 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
56. please
you have so many wrong "facts" - McEnroe etc did not threaten officials, while using particularly offensive language. I do agree Federer was caught on mic using the word "shit" but not threatening anyone. In fact he was telling the official he is an adult and should not be told to "shut up" which is true. Serena went nuts over a call and immediately launched into a foul-mouthed series of threats directly to the official.

You don't see a difference? You have got to be kidding!

You might want to check the history of women's tennis fashion too.
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MiniMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #56
61. There is also a big difference between the chair judge and a line judge
On the tennis court, you always voice any disagreements to the chair umpire. You never approach the line judge. I am a big Serena fan, and not so much a Federer fan. What Fed did was to sit down in his chair with his back to the chair umpire and voice his disapproval. Yes, the mics picked up the word "shit", but I'm not a prude about cursing.

Serena also had a valid complaint about the call, a foot fault is very rarely called at a critical point in the match like that one was, and it appeared to be a very questionable call. I wouldn't have had any problem with her discussing it with the chair ump. But Serena was out of line when she approached the line judge with her racket in front of her and saying to the line judge that she wanted to shove the ball down her throat. That is completely different than the situation with Federer.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
65. federer said 'shit'. he didn't threaten to 'shove the ball down his fucking throat'.
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Chemical Bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
67. I thought Serena deserved punishment...
but I know the media ran with this much more than they did with any other incedents I've seen in my 30+ years of watching tennis. My opinion is the media overreacted because she's black, not because she's a woman.

Anyway, I love Serena, and everybody gets mad sometimes and says things that they regret. I noticed that she didn't actually shove a tennis ball anywhere....

Bill
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #67
80. EXACTLY. I've been a competitive player in my youth and was coming
up in the ranks during the late '70s, when tennis was gaining popularity rapidly,.

I remember Nastase, McEnroe, and Billie Jean King's outbursts. They were of interest in the tennis world but not much beyond. the media is pushing this way out of proprtion and the agenda-happy are all over it.

Once again, the media goes for the shiny object--and how many died in Iraq and Afghanistan today?
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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #67
104. Serena was very threatening towards that official
I happened to watch it. She was aggressive and hostile. Not to mention what everyone's said before, it was her second infraction of the match.

When Serena loses, it's never her fault. I've heard too many of her press conferences. It's always her illness, her injury, her poor play. She can never admit to being outplayed. I just happened to catch the end of that match; I normally won't watch if she's in the match.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
70. It wasn't about the expletives so much as the actual threat, from what I understand.
I suppose the editors at The Nation think otherwise.

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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
81. Threatening physical harm to an official will get you thrown out of a game in almost any sport
except tennis where it's a point penalty. :wtf:
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
85. Federer didn't threaten an official.
Both were fined differently for different things.

End of story.
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thelordofhell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
86. Let's see.......which one sounds worse
"I don't give a sh*t what you have to say!"

"I'm gonna shove this ball down your f***in' throat!"


If you can't tell which one's worse, I feel sorry for you.
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Nye Bevan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
87. "I swear to God Im fucking taking this ball and shoving it down your fucking throat"

versus "Don't tell me to be quiet, OK? I don't give a shit what he said, OK?"

No double standard. Serena's behavior was *much* worse.
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LostInAnomie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
88. "I'm gonna take this fucking ball and shove it down your fucking throat."
Edited on Fri Sep-18-09 02:59 PM by LostInAnomie
That's the difference. Make a threat, you deserve what you get.

The mental gymnastics some will do to show sexism or racism is astounding.
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
90. What a load of crap...if you can't see the difference between someon
muttering swears and someone threatening to shove a ball down a linesman's throat, you are beyond being reached by reason.
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Nye Bevan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
92. Threads like this demonstrate why the Unrec feature was such a good idea

There are at *least* 6 DUers eager to conjure up racism everywhere they look, so before Unrec this thread would definitely have been on the Greatest page. It's nice that the sane DUers amongst us are able to prevent this from happening.
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #92
95. What bothers me is that these "fans" know nothing about tennis....
Serena did not get kicked out
Serena did not have to forfeit the match
Serena didn't get a point assessed because of her tirade...it was her second warning and the point happened to come at match point...if she had sworn and threatened two games earlier she would have lost that point then, like LOTS OF WHITE PLAYERS HAVE!
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Mosby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #95
101. NOTHING NEW UNDER THE TENNIS SUN
NEW HAVEN, Ct. (BASN) -- The bizarre and surreal ending to Saturday night's U.S. Open semifinal match between Serena Williams and Kim Clijsters and it's aftermath are still being felt around the tennis world.

Serena was fined $10,000 and has since issued an string of apologies. In fact, a Grand Slam administrator is determining if further investigation is required.

Predictably, many folks within and outside of tennis media circles think that a suspension should be in order.

snip

Ironically, three of those tirades are part of a Tennis Channel show that originally aired last summer entitled " Tennis Channel Best of 5: Temper Tantrums."

When you also consider on Saturday that McEnroe was in the booth and also leading the charge of criticizing Serena, it makes you realize the real hypocrisy that exists within the sport.

Again, no one is condoning the act. But to make it out like it's so unprecedented and so outrageous would be a bit much. Throw in the incredible timing of the "questionable at best" call, it's a recipe for ugliness.



http://blackathlete.net/artman2/publish/This_N_That_w_T...

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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #101
105. I think we can all agree that McEnroe was being hypocritical
But Serena embarrassed herself and the sport (as McEnroe himself did many times). I'd prefer if he wasn't in the booth.
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #105
108. He adds nothing in his commentary...nothing at all...
...and i really believe his tirades were part of his game plan to throw the other opponent off.
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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #108
111. I agree! n/t

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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #101
107. McEnroe should know...he was defaulted out of a match he was winning
at the Australian Open for getting his third warning...that would have been the next step for Serena, and the way she was acting all match, it would have gotten there...she was losing it long before that tirade at the end.
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #92
96. What bothers me is that these "fans" know nothing about tennis....
Serena did not get kicked out
Serena did not have to forfeit the match
Serena didn't get a point assessed because of her tirade...it was her second warning and the point happened to come at match point...if she had sworn and threatened two games earlier she would have lost that point then, like LOTS OF WHITE PLAYERS HAVE!
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
99. All I know is I watched a lot of McEnroe and Connors in the day
and they lost it all the time.

I think there is certainly a double standard but I'm unsure if it is gender based, about race, or a some of each. No question Ashe had to walk the straight and narrow more but he was pretty much playing the Jackie Robinson role so I'm not sure if a black male tennis player would be allowed more slack or not. I'm fairly certain that women in general are expected to be more emotionally mature and restrain passion when it is aggressive.

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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #99
116. Dunno about that double-standard...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Maybe in the way the media is making a big deal out of it... that's arguable I guess.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
112. this article is dreck. It is a shame that the Nation printed it.
It should be an outrage to real discrimination to create outrage over fake discrimination.
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
113. NO Need tp explain the double standard..
some know it and will pretend the same as they are with these protestors. We will be hearing about Serena,michael vick,kenye and others for months maybe years,you know they are being another investigation into the Janet Jackson tit controversy.

Ok,people we will keep on pretending as you like that we didn't see what we did see. Just as those who pretend to be so upset when they know for a fact that many of those protestors are protesting just because President Obama is black. Just as many are trying to pretend as though the economy is messed up because of Pres Obama and Bush had nothing to do with it

.Just as many are trying to pretend that they didn't hear Pres Obama althrough the campaign spell out his plans for Afghanistan. Just as many are now complaining about how they want their country back now while they sat on their hands and condone the destruction of their country by Bush admin..

We must do what the media tells us and believe their spin and the spin of the talking heads. This morning Scarbourough was talking about the protestors and he went to Pat Buchanan to confirm that there was no racism in the teabaggers protests. We know Pat Buchanan is the first person to go to when we want to know if something is racist or not..
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Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
117. No surprise there.
Nor is the predictable reaction from the "it's wasn't the same situation" crowd.
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Sultana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #117
119. Some feel the need to protect their own.
Just sayin'
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darkstar3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
125. To everyone here talking about rules and consequences confined to the actual sport.
You've missed the point.

Those of us pissed for Serena's sake are not saying that her treatment by the WTA is unfair. (At least, I'm not.) She made a bad decision, she performed in an unsporting manner, and she is being punished for it much like John McEnroe once was.

The problem here isn't what's happening to her professionally, it's what's happening to her publicly. When Mac went RTF OFF on the court, people thought it was funny. Some people thought he was justified. Sports can get REALLY tense sometimes, and when a ref makes a bad call, people have been known to lose their shit. Mac didn't get a pass from his tennis peers, but he DID get a pass from the public, and THAT is the difference between him and Serena. People just won't let this one go, and those of us who notice the blatant surface differences between her and Mac are left to wonder why that is...
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #125
126. Serena acted like a jerk--but EXACTLY what you said. This is the media's current shiny
object, complete with latent rac- and sex-ism. McEnroe was a jerk when he did that stuff as well, no more or less than Williams.

I admit that I might have missed that point earlier too, but it's damn straight. It's being played strictly for the sexy--but ugly--controversy lying just beneath the surface.

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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #125
128. It's hard to compare to 1980 as the coverage of all things sports has skyrocketed since then.
Back in McEnroe's heyday there wasn't ESPN, there wasn't the internet where we could talk about McEnroe's behavior, and there wasn't 24/7 analysis of every thing sports related like there is now. These days, every story of athletes behaving this way gets more coverage than ever before, and certainly far more than three decades ago. The fact that this happened at one of the tennis' biggest events also increases the scrutiny of it.

I'm not saying there's no truth to what you're saying, but a fairer way to judge would be to find a more current example of bad behavior by a top star in their sport and then compare the coverage of that to Serena's case.
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darkstar3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #128
142. That's a thinker...
I still think Serena's treatment has been overly harsh, but your point about media coverage and spin having increased since McEnroe's day is not without merit.

Good post. :toast:
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
129. Well, here was my own personal reaction to the news.
I love Serena and her sister. I've watched them both in interviews and watched them in matches simply because I loved them both as individuals. When I heard about Serena's rant, I thought to myself "oh, no, Serena! Say it's not true. I know you're better than that!" Later, she apologized, and I thought, "ok, everyone breaks down under stress sometimes. No big deal."

When I heard about Fedora, Ferreir, Federer, or whatever his name is I thought "Who? Oh, yeah, he's that tennis guy. He's a hot-head? Jerk."

So, maybe I applied a double-standard, but it had nothing to do with sex, race, etc. It was because I expected more of Serena.

As far as I'm concerned: she fucked up and lost it. She was penalized for it. She's sorry. Story over. Let's move on.
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subcomhd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
143. maybe you shouldn't call them colored people. nt
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-18-09 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
145. The double standard here is non-existent.
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