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lwcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 07:18 AM
Original message
F**k civility
Wherever you turn, someone's ruing our nation's lack of civility, and praising wonderful folks like Laura Bush who practice it.

America's greatest asset, it seems, is protocol. It's a damn shame, isn't it, that we can't return to the elegant days when plantation owners hosted elegant balls, where every white glove was in place -- and every person knew his or hers!

Democrats fall all over themselves to promote their lack of partisanship. It would be uncivil to question the ethics and decency of our good friends across the aisle. Some day, once the Democrats are properly bipartisan enough, the Republicans will return the favor and support important reforms and demand accountability for their colleagues' misdeeds. How could that fail? Just as atheists will be considered fully respectable if the Richard Dawkinses will just stop being so mean. You can count on it!

I raise this not to praise Kanye West or Joe Wilson for their recent acts of jerkiness. But the ensuing public reactions signal a much bigger problem than their trivial bouts of rudeness: we've become a nation of tut-tutters, people who prefer STFU to candor.

We're terrified of Janet Jackson's worrisome nipple and Howard Dean's gravelly enthusiasm. A nation afraid to venture far from the fainting couch.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 07:20 AM
Response to Original message
1. Manners
Edited on Thu Sep-17-09 07:22 AM by AllentownJake
Are not a bad thing.

While I agree on fuck civility in some regards, not yelling at the President while he is speaking and not interupting the winner of an award while they give their acceptance speech is good behavior.

Not threatning to shove a ball down a judge's throat is also good behavior and should be encouraged.
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lwcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I'll take respect (when it's earned, and when it's real) and honesty over manners any day n/t
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 07:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. There is a common respect
Edited on Thu Sep-17-09 07:24 AM by AllentownJake
For winners of awards, Presidents while they address congress, and judges in an athletic contest when they make a ruling.

Sorry Joe Wilson, Kanye, and Serena engaged in bad behavior and it should not be rewarded.
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lwcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I didn't ask for them to be rewarded, now did I?
In fact, I characterized them as rude jerks. But everywhere one turns, there's another paean to protocol, a plea for "civility," a paralyzing fear of conflict and of breaks in the national hush.

The Democratic 2008 platform stated: ""A great nation now demands that its leaders abandon the politics of partisan division and find creative solutions to promote the common good. A people that prizes candor, accountability and fairness insists that a government for the people must level with them and champion the interests of all American families. A land of historic resourcefulness has lost its patience with elected officials who have failed to lead."

The problem is, standing up as partisan opponents to the Reagan Revolution is precisely what we need, and pretending that "partisan division" can be wished or whisked away isn't candor. It's Beltway happy talk that furthers the status quo.

There is much in American politics and economics today that demands far franker opposition than we get in our oh-so-polite media stream. And inculcating our fellow citizens with this excessive fear of breaches of protocol -- and admiration for the likes of Laura Bush for being so "nice" -- isn't going to help heal this country.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. People like the sound of Bipartisanship
People like the idea of people getting along. People hate conflict. It was a sales pitch. The leaders knew it would not work.

Other than marrying an idiot and standing by her husband I don't really fault Laura Bush for anything and I see no reason to denigrate or attack her. Her husband, well he's another story.

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lwcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. I mention Laura Bush...
... because she's been widely praised for her "classy civility." She certainly was classy when she stood by her man when he murdered 1 million Iraqis. Oh, sorry, that was rude of me, and we can't have that.
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lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #10
19. She's been widely praised by who exactly?
Here on DU? I must have missed those threads
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lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. Black or white, day or night, wid us or agin us...
Incivility has gotten us places no one would ever be able to go through civility. :sarcasm:



silly and empty argument in favor of rudeness.
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lwcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. You're right
I wish all those civil rights activists, labor activists, women's rights activists, gay rights activists, immigrants' rights activists, and war protesters would have stayed at home and not raised a ruckus.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 07:23 AM
Response to Original message
3. Our boot straps were
"Made In China"
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lib2DaBone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Bingo. Be good little citizens... and the Republicans will let some crumbs trickle down to you...
Signed, Max Baucus
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 07:40 AM
Response to Original message
7. fuck civility? we have strangers slapping and spanking kids. civility just for the children
we are outraged if a child doesnt show due respect keep mouth shut and walk the line but adults....

fuck it. behave however

you think that will work?

this fuck civility idea for political world doesnt just stay in your political world. fuck someone coming into my lane when i drive, shoot them. fuck standing in line, cut to the front, .... just fuck it all

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el_bryanto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
11. So what do you recommmend? More Assholery?
I mean there is plenty of that around.

Bryant
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lwcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. More candor
Less couch-fainting.

Less time spent wringing our hands over jerkish outbursts, and more time criticizing the policies that emanate from the ever-so-polite world of DC power politics.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 07:51 AM
Response to Original message
13. what a mess of a post. Janet Jackson's nipple has nothing to do
with civility. And civility does not preclude honesty or calling out bullshit.
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lwcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Civility makes even using the word "bullshit" unthinkable, no?
.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. "Nitwit" is quite acceptable, provided it's under baked.
I'm more of a F**K the GOP the way they've been F**king me type! I never was one of the types who just lays there!
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. in some circumstances, yes. in others, no.
In a formal setting it's not within the confines of civility. In some conversations, it's not. In fact, I've even heard the word used in a civil exchange on town meeting day. And it's not generally a very persuasive word.
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lukasahero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-17-09 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
18. This country should have learned more from Ted Kennedy.
One can be firm in their convictions without sacrificing civility. I give up.
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