The swine flu is rampant in my area -- This is what I've learned

[FourScore]

Let me say right off the bat that the swine flu has terrified me from the beginning because I have a severe respiratory illness and belong to the high risk group. Two out of three of my children have asthma, so they are at double risk - due to their age and their asthma.

This is our story so far:

I live in Ithaca, NY -- home of Cornell University, alma matar to the likes of Keith Olbermann, Bill Maher and Carl Sagan (as well as Ann Coulter -- oh well, 3 out of 4 ain't bad). Ithaca is a very small, liberal town. The public schools opened on Wednesday, Sept. 9. (Yes, one day after Obama's speech to school children, but the teachers here showed You Tube versions of it anyway!!! Gotta love this town!)

By Friday afternoon, my oldest son had a sudden onset of sore throat and asthma (although he has been asthma-free for over a year due to his treatment regimen and allergy shots). Within the hour, he was experiencing chills, fatigue, nausea, headache and cough. His fever never passed 99.8 during the entire duration of his illness (almost a week). We consulted with 4 doctors during this time. All 4 believed it was possible he had the swine flu, 2 felt pretty certain about it due to the symptoms and timing. We were not given Tamiflu. The asthma was treated with the usual protocol. An Influenza Type-A test was performed which came back negative (more on this later). Three days later, my daughter also began to have symptoms, but even much milder than her brothers. The rest of us in the home are still healthy.

Many of my kids' friends are now sick with the same symptoms, some of them are testing positve for Type A Influenza (more on this below) and some are experiencing an alarmingly high fever.

Cornell University is reporting about 650 cases with one death (he had a pre-existing condition which remains unknown to the general public.) The fifth grade at my kid's school is most heavily affected -- in one class of 25 kids, 14 were out sick with swine flu.

Because of my fear of this flu, I wanted to protect myself and my family as best I could. Over the summer, I researched what to do and these are the things I have learned. I believe that the following tips have helped us to keep this mild within my family. I did not begin to implement them until my oldest began to get sick:

1. Vitamin D is believed to be a strong anti-viral medication. Clinical tests are now being performed in Canada. Most of us are Vitamin D deficient in this country. A simple blood test can determine where you stand. There are 3 components to the test: Vitamin D, D2 and D3. The D3 reading is the most important. It is vital to get tested prior to supplementing with Vitamin D due to it's high toxicity. For more information on this, please read the following medical literature:

http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/health/deficiency/am-i-v...

http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/newsletter/h1n1-flu-and-...

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlek...

I began to supplement myself and my family (under doctor supervision and with the recommended blood draws). I believe this has helped, despite the virus being in the home.

2. I also implemented washing out the nasal passages with a saline solution as well as gargling with warm salt-water or lysterine. My kids have begun to incorporate these steps into their morning and evening teeth-brushing regimen. The H1N1 flu virus begins in the nasal and throat area. The germs fester there for a day or two before going further into the body. If these areas are cleansed twice a day then this can do alot to sheild a person from severe illness.

3. We are washing our hands and faces on a more regular basis, as well as wiping down more of the common areas, such as bathrooms and door knobs. This is the hardest part because it is so easy to slack off here. But we do the best we can.

We also learned that the Type A Influenza test is now no longer recommended by the CDC due to poor accuracy rates, and, therefore, is not performed by many doctors. One doctor told me that it is only 20% accurate. Another told me that it is anywhere from 10-70% accurate. In any case, if you get a positive result, then you know you have it. If it is negative, but you have all the symptoms, then you still can't rule out swine flu as a possibility. Most doctors are not performing the test.

In this area, there is another virus of sore throat and high fever that lasts about 2 days. This is leading to some confusion in the community as to who actually has the swine flu and who is suffering from this other virus. Most doctors are going on the duration of the illness and the other symptoms common to swine flu to help with the diagnosis. It is unfortunate that the Influenza-A test is so unreliable.

I hope this post can be helpful to some of you who are hoping to empower yourselves with more than just Purel.

I wish you all the best of health!

--FourScore

[aquart]

1. Thank you! Especially for the Vitamin D information.

[Maru Kitteh]

56. Yes, and particularly for the VITAL informaion that D can be toxic and supplementation

should be done only under physicians care and with monitoring.

[BrklynLiberal]

2. Yes...Thanks very much for the info...particularly the Vit D facts.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

76. My rheumatologist put me on Vitamin D

(prescription) about a year ago. It has has a terrific effect on joint pain, one of the many blessings it imparts.

We've screwed ourselves so thoroughly with our calendars and our artificial light, Vitamin D insufficiency is at epidemic levels. And it's a tricky drug, so you really do need to see your doctor about it. Get the blood test, get the scrip.

I take 50,000 units twice a month. That's all, and what a difference it makes.

Keep washing those hands, too. SO important.......................

[KT2000]

3. Vitamin D is terrific

After a few months taking rather high doses - my life changed dramatically. Inflammation and infections - gone!! Fifteen years of aggravation over.

[MichaelHarris]

12. lucky

The daily requirement of vitamin D for the body is very low, and once the body makes enough vitamin D the process of manufacturing ceases. A person requires only 15-20 minutes of exposure to the sun, three times a week to manufacture the body's requirement of vitamin D. However, when vitamin D supplements are consumed, there is no automatic shut down mechanism to prevent overdose of the vitamin. Vitamin D overdose can lead to a potentially dangerous condition called hypervitaminosis D.

Symptoms of Vitamin D Overdose
Symptoms of vitamin D overdose varies from individual to individual. The different symptoms are:

Calcification: Abnormally high amounts of calcium and phosphate are deposited in the soft tissue, such as kidneys, heart and lungs, is called as calcification. These deposits can lead to irreversible organ malfunction. Breast calcification is one common type of calcification. Breast calcification is mostly benign, however, sometimes it can be indicative of breast cancer.

Urinary Stones: When hard mineral masses get lodged in the urinary tract region, they are called as urinary stones. These stones are actually formed in the kidneys, which then move to the urinary tract. The victim goes through immeasurable pain, and most of the times, surgery is required to remove them. In some cases, a specific diet can dissolve the stones.

Nerve Symptoms: These symptoms comprise particular sensations such as numbness, pain, reflex issues, taste symptoms, hearing impairment, temperature sensitivity, tingling, burning, prickling sensations, etc.

Muscle Symptoms: Muscle weakness, loss of muscle control, muscle pain, cramps, stiffness, decrease in size and bulk of the muscle, called muscle atrophy are the various muscle symptoms occurring due to vitamin D overdose.

The other symptoms of vitamin D overdose are vomiting, nausea, poor appetite, excessive thirst, excessive urine production, loss of weight, dehydration, constipation, itchy skin, severe headache, irritability and nervousness. Heart rhythm irregularities, increased risk of heart disease, high blood pressure as well as renal failure are also symptoms of the overdose. Vitamin D overdose in pregnant women can result in mental or physical retardation in babies.

Vitamin D overdose is not the result of a single large dose, but is the result of a high vitamin D dosage over a period of time. This is because, the body does not excrete the excess levels of vitamin D from the body, like it does with the other essential nutrients. The excess Vitamin D is stored in the fat cells of the body, where they accumulate and reach the toxic levels over a period of time. Vitamin D overdose can be treated with steroids given by a medical professional.

[KT2000]

30. thanks - it looks like

you did some work to get this info.
I do believe that daily requirements will increase with the new information coming out of current research.
If you are not aware of it you may want to look into the work of Cedric Garland and his brother concerning the benenfits of vitamin D. They started the sudden interest in vitamin D and many others have picked up the ball.
thanks again

[MichaelHarris]

35. Keep up the

mis-information then, I only did 8 years of vitamin research at UTMB and my wife is a practicing physician. This pseudo-medicine will harm someone.

[Maru Kitteh]

58. You are correct M. Harris. Many people do NOT understand that this vitamin D craze can and will have

very serious negative consequences for some.

[MichaelHarris]

60. I couldn't stop it though

hopefully someone will not harm a child by dosing to dangerous levels.

[Maru Kitteh]

64. That must have been tragic and devestating to watch a kid die from v. D intoxication

I hate it when parents practice pop medicine on their children. Leaves me infuriated.

Ignorance is often more kind than a little bit of knowledge and an internet connection.

[MichaelHarris]

68. it was wierd

they first started the testing with hair samples for zinc, the ER docs were puzzled. Out lab had the only Atomic Absorption machine around so that's how we got involved. For the metals test that's what we used, for the other Vitamin tests we did RIA, Radioimmunoassay for the binding of Vit D.

[marybourg]

4. I hope your kids recover quickly with no repercussions. nt.

[conflictgirl]

5. Thank you!

That was very interesting, particularly the fact that your son had it and did NOT have a particularly high fever. My whole family has had the exact same symptoms since Sunday, which came on very rapidly. The prospect of swine flu has been in the back of my mind, but I was kind of dismissing it because we have only had low-grade fevers and thought that meant surely it couldn't be flu. But other than that, it is the exact same symptoms you described. There is a similar type of viral crud going around here too, but what we're dealing with seems to be lingering longer.

I wonder if there would be any point to still using the vitamin D or the neti pot/nasal cleansing even though we're all already sick? Obviously it would be a good preventative to keep us well through the winter, but I wonder if it would help us recover faster at this point.

[FourScore]

8. I don't think it could hurt.

I am glad to hear that your symptoms are also mild. Swine flu is highly contagious because most of us do not have any antibodies against it. If the same symptoms are spreading rapidly in your whole community, then it is likely swine flu. If only a few are getting it, then it could be something else.

I saw an immediate improvement from the implementation of Vit D, nasal washing and gargling. Try it. And good luck!

[MichaelHarris]

10. It can hurt!

The daily requirement of vitamin D for the body is very low, and once the body makes enough vitamin D the process of manufacturing ceases. A person requires only 15-20 minutes of exposure to the sun, three times a week to manufacture the body's requirement of vitamin D. However, when vitamin D supplements are consumed, there is no automatic shut down mechanism to prevent overdose of the vitamin. Vitamin D overdose can lead to a potentially dangerous condition called hypervitaminosis D.

[FourScore]

13. The daily requirement is 10,000.

This can usually be achieved within 20 minutes in the sun. However, surprisingly few of us spend that amount of time in the sun each day. Sunlight through windows does not provide Vieamin D. Neither does being in the sun with sunscreen on. A person should consult their doctor for guidance.

[MichaelHarris]

15. I stand by my analysis

I worked in vitamin research at the University of Texas Medical Branch, I've seen the toxicity, there is well known historical story of explorers dying on the ice flow from Vitamin D overdose. This is just a bad post all around, my wife, an MD agrees.

[FourScore]

20. She agrees that a person should not get themselves tested for a Vitamin deficiency?

Really? Wow. That's unbelievable.

We're not all explorers on the open sea, you know.

[MichaelHarris]

24. Don't be silly

most of the time it's not indicated, testing for vitamin deficiency. Look, you wrote a dangerous post, you're being called out on it by someone who has spent years studying vitamins. You information is flawed, it is based on some hocus-pocus new age crap. I hops your information doesn't harm someone!

[pnwmom]

29. My physician has already recommended a vitamin D supplement for me,

based on newer research and where we live. (I didn't ask for this -- she brought it up at my physical.) Many people in the Northwest have low vitamin D levels.

[MichaelHarris]

31. I also live in the Northwest

and if a physician is monitoring the levels it probably won't be harmful. Vitamin D is fat soluble, it stays with you for a longer time that water soluble vitamins. What that means is a dose days after a dietary intake can begin the harmful effects. Vitamins are not cure-alls, they can, and do great harm. Web pharmacology is dangerous, this thread is a prime example.

[omega minimo]

84. You are totally out of line

[MichaelHarris]

6. No offense

but Vitamin D is a fat soluble vitamin and can cause harm if over-used. I would hope that the Mods would delete this thread as it contains dangerous information. Try Vitamin C, it's water soluble. I did research in this field for eight years.

The daily requirement of vitamin D for the body is very low, and once the body makes enough vitamin D the process of manufacturing ceases. A person requires only 15-20 minutes of exposure to the sun, three times a week to manufacture the body's requirement of vitamin D. However, when vitamin D supplements are consumed, there is no automatic shut down mechanism to prevent overdose of the vitamin. Vitamin D overdose can lead to a potentially dangerous condition called hypervitaminosis D.

[FourScore]

9. did you read what I wrote?

A person should first get a blood test to determine if it is prudent or not to supplement and only do so under doctor supervision.

[MichaelHarris]

11. I don't

think you should have wrote it all, it's bad science.

Of the fat-soluble vitamins, vitamins A and D are the most toxic. Common symptoms of vitamin D overdose are nausea, vomiting, joint pains, and loss of appetite. Prolonged exposure to toxic doses of vitamin D may result in excessive calcium deposits in the soft tissues of the body which may lead to damage to the heart, lungs and kidneys.

[pnwmom]

32. You must have missed this part of the OP:

"It is vital to get tested prior to supplementing with Vitamin D due to it's high toxicity."

[omega minimo]

45. Overlooked intentionally and demanding removal. WTH do these folks think they are?

[MichaelHarris]

47. they would be

people trying to get bad advice, harmful advice, removed before someone dies.

[omega minimo]

52. Look elsewhere.

[MichaelHarris]

54. where did

you get your MD?

[pnwmom]

63. What is harmful about pointing out the possibility of Vitamin D deficiency

and saying it is VITAL to see a doctor first for testing?

[MichaelHarris]

70. Does the poster know

how many people she suggests this treatment to will actually see a doctor? Did she very noticeably post the dangers? Is her post mainly about the positive with very little negative? You would be pissed if your doctor gave you a medicine without going over the danger, why do you support an internet stranger when she does it?

[conflictgirl]

77. When my doctor prescribed vitamin D to me, do you know much info he gave me about vit D toxicity?

None. Having an MD degree and vitamins doled out by those in possession of an MD instead of through information procured on the internet by no means ensures the patient/consumer will be better informed. On any drug, supplement or other form of treatment have I gotten much information at all about risks from my doctor, and have been on my own to research that after getting a prescription. In fact, after having a very bad reaction to two medications together and having my MD completely dismiss it, I had to research it on my own to find out what was going on (which very likely saved my life).

I understand and take very seriously the risks of self-diagnosis and self-treatment, and the fact that vitamins and supplements can be every bit as powerful as pharmaceuticals. But relying solely on information from doctors, as though that keeps us safer, is very foolish indeed. Self-education and research, in addition to consulting with a doctor, is going to be the safest way to go. Doctors are busy and often need the extra pair of eyes watching out for risks.

[MichaelHarris]

81. Do you also

understand relying on discussion board medicine can also be harmful? All this poster needed to say is, "See your physician, ask about Vitamin D". One line, short and sweet. Instead we are presented with a sugar-coated praise of Vitamin D with very little actual medicine and dangers. Now about the doctor not going over the dangers, they are supposed to; as is the pharmacist. Since Vitamin D is over the counter we skip the pharmacist. We also need to do our own, we are responsible people right? We should check every medicine we put into out bodies, we should triple check medical advice from strangers over the internet. I'm taking a beating in this thread but I don't care. I actually want you to question me, maybe readers will do some actual "research", I have.

[omega minimo]

67. You have been corrected on your misread of the OP.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

78. You did good -

your post was very clear and very informative with all the necessary and legitimate caveats. You did a great job telling the story, and I hope people can get to their doctors, get the proper blood test(s), and, if necessary, get the proper supplements. The deficiency of one of those vital elements can make a big difference in the quality of life.

My physician gave me a Vitamin D prescription, and it's a twice-a-month dose. No big deal, but the difference it's made in my aches and pains has been quite dramatic.

Of course, there are some people who might need to put down your post for one bogus reason or another. Everyone's an expert on a message board, you know.........................

[MichaelHarris]

80. I know about your law degree

but where did you get the MD?

[conflictgirl]

14. In my case I have been tested and I do have a vitamin D deficiency

I have been prescribed a specific amount of vit D that I'm supposed to take, but I admit that I've sort of slacked off on it. Particularly where I live (in a northern climate where we have fewer days of sunlight than average) my doctor has said that most people are deficient in vitamin D. Obviously there can be a danger from having way too much and the original poster did advise caution and testing, but I don't think that suggesting it is particularly reckless.

[MichaelHarris]

16. it's extremely

reckless for those not being monitored.

[pnwmom]

34. The poster advised testing. S/he wasn't being reckless. n/t

[MichaelHarris]

36. the poster

admitted to an irrational fear of the flu and not once mentioned the dangers. That alone is reckless.

[FourScore]

38. I never said my fear was irrational. In fact, I find it quite rational.

Those with severe respiratory illenss stand at great risk.

[MichaelHarris]

46. Then you

have partaken of the kool-aid.

[pnwmom]

65. It is NOT irrational to be very afraid of the flu when you already have a severe

respiratory illness and your children already have asthma.

[MichaelHarris]

71. I can't really add anymore

you could Google the danger, I'm done.

[pnwmom]

73. I'm not going to "google the danger" -- every person's situation is different.

There is no reason to say that the OP's fear is "irrational" when we don't know his or her medical situation.

[MichaelHarris]

75. you

don't know her medical situation but you take her advice? OK.

[pnwmom]

82. You keep distorting what she said. Her advice is unexceptionable.

It's that vitamin D may be helpful, but that it is "vital" a person see a doctor and have blood tests showing a deficiency first.
And that using saline solution in the nose, and swabbing things down, may help reduce germs.

I'm surprised you're not criticizing her on the grounds that it's possible to have an H2O overdose.

[BlooInBloo]

17. Not a fan of people giving medical advice on DU myself either.

[MichaelHarris]

19. it's

wreckless

[BlooInBloo]

26. Indeed. Not to mention it's reckless.

[MichaelHarris]

27. trying to get it closed

I've seen children die from Vit D toxicity.

[MichaelHarris]

40. crap!

in my fervor to save lives I messed up reckless.

[BlooInBloo]

41. :) Thanks for proving that it's not *impossible* for an American to admit error...

No matter what one might suspect from reading the rest of this thread.

[MichaelHarris]

44. I have been know to

butcher the English language with the best of them.

[BlooInBloo]

48. Eye ass well.

[MichaelHarris]

50. It's

eye matie! Pirate talk.

[MichaelHarris]

49. I'm going to give up

on this thread, my only hope someone reading it won't start giving a child some high, unknown dose of vitamin D. As I had mentioned earlier, we saw a child die at UTMB because of it.

[BlooInBloo]

51. :) Good luck.

[MichaelHarris]

53. Part of me

wants to hang around and make fun of the "pseudo-mediciners" but I have reading to do. I don't want to read but I'm doing a paper on Creation/Flood stories among aboriginal peoples around the world. Also covering the damage missionaries have caused to the historical oral traditions among the native peoples. We still continue to push flood stories upon indigenous people in South America, "Bibles for Band aids and medicine". These locations have absolutely no geological record of a flood.

[BlooInBloo]

55. Comparative anthro work can be very cool. Have fun!

[MichaelHarris]

57. sort of my retired

endeavor, photography and anthropology. I was recently asked to join a field class to document a recently discovered treaty concerning a northern tribe. It's sort of secret and in litigation so I can't say too much, it may turn into a "Ken Burns" thing if you know what I mean.

[BlooInBloo]

59. "if you know what I mean." - I don't, but then again, I don't have to.

[MichaelHarris]

61. he's does

historical documentaries.

[BlooInBloo]

62. Oh - ok, yah - I found that much out via teh google. Thought you meant something...

in connection with litigation specifically.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

79. Oh, you sly

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. I got it in the summer and it was really MILD

now I am fighting a cold, and trust me, I understand your son and Asthma...

<------- exercise, you shitting me? cough, wheeze, cough...

I got the lecture about getting the vaccine, so will get it. and the test is not done for another reason. If they get a positive, in theory they need to do the genetic test to confirm. The first one is a few bucks... the second one is in the thousands. So they are trying to save resources for those in the hospital setting.

[tyedyeto]

18. So, does your family have swine flu or just a common summer cold?

Do you really know what has hit your family?
I've had the summer cold, full blown with a sinus headache, cough, phlegm (SP?)etc. I live just to the north of Mexico where swine flu is supposed to be the most 'rampant', to use your word. Did I go to the Doc and find out what I had? No, I treated my symptoms like any other cold I have ever had in my 57 years of life and guess what?? Within a few days, I got better. It was just another cold. I am not going to tell everyone I know "I think I had swine flu" just because some of the symptoms were similar.

[MichaelHarris]

21. Here at Washington State U

they claimed 2000 cases, my wife is a doctor and that was blatantly untrue, they only had TWO confirmed cases. The methodology they claim is if two have it then those with symptoms MUST have it. It sells newspapers and gets doctors on TV, people can sure suck sometimes.

[FourScore]

22. If your case was isolated, then it was probably a cold.

This is a small town. When a huge swath of the population begins to suffer from the same illness with the same symptoms as swine flu then the situation is pretty clear. In all probability, my son had the swine flu, but we really can't know for sure since there is no reliable testing.

Regular colds do not knock out 60% of a classroom.

[MichaelHarris]

25. My town is also small

you're spreading fear and bad information, you are very irresponsible. This is also a small town with an international student population. Of the 2000 CLAIMED CASES, only two were positive. My guess is so was your child. This is such a irresponsible post I wish it would just be deleted.

[daleo]

23. Best of luck

I too fear that Swine Flu could be very severe this winter.

[morillon]

28. That's great info!

My endocrinologist recently had me start taking D supplements because my bloodwork showed a deficiency. She says there's a virtual epidemic of D deficiency going on now.

ETA: But I do recommend getting tested before trying to adjust this yourself. In my case, my blood levels were less than half of the low end of normal.

[DeschutesRiver]

33. I use a neti pot several times a week to wash nasal passages

Used to have "allergies" and couldn't take enough zyrtec/clartin/etc to even make a dent (late life allergy, is what the doctor told me). Started using the neti pot daily and haven't taken an allergy pill since (has been 3 years or so). I continue to use it on a regular basis, and can't recommend it highly enough. I used to buy solution; now I make up my own for pennies.

Am also taking Vitamin D since this swine flu deal came up in April. Have upped our Vitamin C, too. What is the problem with testing for Vitamin D and correcting any deficiencies found? The answer to that seems to be missing in some posts, only the warning to never take D because you will die from a toxic event. What is wrong with testing to check for deficiencies?

No colds, no flu, no nothing. I can't tell you that it is due to the D, C and neti pot, but it is something worth taking a look at if you aren't already doing so.

[MichaelHarris]

37. I can give you a reason

Vitamin D toxicity
Vitamin D toxicity in small children may produce metastatic calcification. In adults it can cause bone pain and hypercalcaemia. As toxic potential of Vitamin D is high in sufficiently large doses it can cause death.

[DeschutesRiver]

39. Again, what is the issue with testing for deficiencies in Vitamin D? nt

[MichaelHarris]

43. there are no issues

will you be constantly monitoring the sunlight you receive daily and will you track the dairy you will intake while eating handfuls of pills? Monitoring serum levels for a vitamin that resides in the lipids for a long time? Will you attach a Vit. D monitor to your belt?

[DeschutesRiver]

66. I think your response gives me an idea of how much weight

I should attach to your opinions on this subject, so thanks for the input which allowed me to reach a conclusion with respect to the opinion you've expressed in your posts. It is not persuasive any longer. Your attitude regarding testing is unnecessarily hostile and thus of no concern to me.

And I will continue to go with my own doc's recommendations on the subject of vitamin D and testing. As should we all.

[MichaelHarris]

72. I'm wondering

which post did I condemn testing?

[omega minimo]

42. Important and helpful post. Prevention works!! Thank you. Rec ++++++++++

[kickysnana]

74. Thanks for the post. n/t

[Prometheus Bound]

83. The headline says swine flu is rampant. The post says no one really knows if it's swine flu.

[maddezmom]

85. locking

DU members are not qualified to provide medical advice, and if you have any symptoms of the flu please seek appropriate medical attention.