People of Montana must be pretty embarrassed...

[27inCali]

That A-hole Baucus practically looked ashamed of himself in that presser. He looked like someone who had been carrying on an elaborate lie and was sheepishly preparing for it to become obvious to everyone around just what a corporate slut he really is.

He just had that sheepish look of "you-caught-me." Max Baucus should stop wasting our time calling himself a Democrat, he should put a C next to his name instead of D (C for Corporatist Party).

This needs to go to the vote. I'd like to see Obama threaten to campaign for any primary challengers against ALL Dem Senators that vote against Public Option. I know he probably wont and will try something slicker, but we're fighting for people's lives here LITERALLY. Sometimes the ends DO justify the means.

I just think the people of Montana should be ashamed for failing themselves and the American people in electing this piece of shit.

Same goes for Conrad, Nelson, Fienstein, Bayh and all the other soulless corporate whores: the people who voted for them should be ashamed. Progressive coalitions like MoveOn and others should start fundraising now to help primary challengers against these fucks, let them know that we REAL Dems are coming for them "and Hell's coming with us", even if it gets us Republican in that seat -at least we will have an open enemy and not these double agent scum bags.

If we had any self-respect as Democrats, we'd show these hucksters the door and kick them the fuck out of the party.

If the people of this country had any concept of how to punish the epic betrayal perpetrated against them, they would tie these fuckers to a tree and set them on fire. Let's see how many wannabe corporate sell-outs run for office after that.

It really is amazing the incredible insult and betrayal the people of this country will endure.

[gateley]

1. I thought he seemed kind of nervous when he was delivering the "good news" nt

[AuntPatsy]

3. I noticed the same and wondered at his nervousness?

The only thing that I could think of is that he is on he payroll of someone other than the people and was not sure his message was going to be received well..kept going on that the bill will pass...over and over again as if he was reassuring someone other than ourselves?

[DrDan]

2. ou seem to be impying that obama is willing to fight for the PO

[tridim]

4. You never fail to prove my point about you.

You obviously aren't interested in listening to what Obama has already stated over and over and over. The President is indeed fighting for a strong PO or better, along with the majority in Congress. He has never strayed from that goal since day one.

Keep it up though, you're my favorite chicken little pessimist on DU.

[DrDan]

6. glad to see you are still lurking about

fighting?. . . . well, I suppose most apologists would think that

[tridim]

9. Yea, I've just been lurking here since 2001 with 28000 posts.

Are you going to address my point, or are you going to ignore it like you ignore what the President says?

[DrDan]

11. yeah - 2001 for me also -

I don't have 28K posts - is that supposed to have some meaning? Like some extra wisdom to pass on?

I guess I must have missed any point worth addressing.

Perhaps you mean "I support the PO"? - Is that the "fighting for a strong PO, or better" to which you were referring? I guess it might be "strong" compared to making it available to 3% or 4% rather than the 5% as advertised.

[tridim]

13. I didn't call you a lurker.

I called you a pessimist.

The PRESIDENT supports the PO or better for people who can't afford private insurance. You'd know that if you listened to one of his speeches.

[DrDan]

16. as do I

So what makes you think I do not listen to his speeches? I think I catch most of them.

His PO support is for that 5%. Not a universal option. Do you support that? or do you think that might be a bit lacking. Even that limited PO seems to be stretch right now, doesn't it.

What about the mandate? Are you a supporter of that?

[27inCali]

7. we don't really know for sure

because we aren't in the back rooms hearing the discussions. He's out there campaigning like he's running for office -is he supposed to set himself on fire like a Buddhist monk?
I think he's trying to get the best thing through that he can, even if it's incomplete. Its the argument we've been having here about do we want the perfect or an imperfect something. I get the passion on both sides because both arguments make some sense. People are just waaaaay too invested to their preconceived narratives and need to accept that they really don't know what's happening and that the future is FLUID......

I think of this as a big war with a lot of tactical decisions to be made. I think maybe pres. sees conference as the best battleground to wage the ultimate fight for PO -it sure is going that way. But I really think the relentless negativity and attacks towards the pres from some here isn't really doing anything to advance the cause of PO. It's just sounds like bitter I-told-you-soism before the heart of the matter has even been decided. Even the people willing to settle for something less in their heart of hearts would prefer PO - So we all want the same thing as far as that's concerned and any argument is either semantic or tactical -again to attack or ridicule people on either side, hurts our chances of getting PO, doesn't help. We all want PO, so unite, get vocal and give the Senators the political cover to vote for PO -if they don't there will be no question who they work for.

I guess most people have made up their mind about Obama -one way or other. I haven't. I think this is the big test to see if he will stand up against the corporations or just fold and accept the bullshit. But we don't know yet and the people digging in like ideologues on either side of that question reveal a bit of their own naivety (and in some cases, shitty motives).

[DrDan]

10. no - it is not about perfect vs imperfect

it is about imperfect vs imperfect. Perfect has already been cast aside.

But I agree that none of us here know everything that is going on behind the scenes. perhaps we know NOTHING about the behind-the-scenes bartaring.

"attacks toward the president . . .isn't really doing anything to advance the cause" - nor are the constant apologies on his behalf.

[27inCali]

15. yeah I would agree that it's more of a middle ground

you have to PUSH for what you want. It's always a perilous grey area to be in, when the passion for an idea is so intense that it risks becoming a bitter frustration that expresses itself in pessimism and negative self-fullfilling prophecy -or on the other side, when you instinct to unite behind a charismatic leader is close to becoming a psychological dependence and a dangerous short-cut to critical thinking.

[tridim]

5. There are people in Montana?

[keithjx]

12. I'm one of them

And, of course, Max just got reelected, so he's looking at another 5 years before he has to campaign again. He has not responded to my correspondence, and it looks like I'll be sending another letter soon. Ugh.

KJ

[Uben]

8. Baucus failed.

There may have been no way to negotiate with the republicans on the committee about a PO, so he should have just said a consensus is not possible. We use reconcilliation, pass the PO, and shove it right up the republicans ass! Do you think for one minute they would not do it to us? They would have bypassed all this cooperation BS and just did it. That's what we should do, and I am sure that is the only way it will ever get done, so why waste time and energy letting the republicans blow smoke up our ass?

Somebody in this party has to grow a set of balls!

[Generator]

14. They don't get paid to have chutzpah

They get paid to act like Republicans, apparently it pays very well and they keep getting elected and acting more and more like Republicans. This bill is a travesty and it dirties everyone that is a Democrat.