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jmondine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 01:21 PM
Original message
I can choose to not drive. I can't choose to not be mortal.
This fundamental difference is why a health insurance mandate is completely different from an auto insurance mandate.
Quality health care is a basic human right that should be guaranteed for all citizens, not an obligation for which we should be threatened with punishment.
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Burma Jones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. If we had a Public Option, you would be taxed for it, like you are for police and fire fighting
This is more like having to pay Protection Money to some thug.
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DesertFlower Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. i agree. nt
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. I am reminded of 'Gangs of New York' -
when competing fire companies fought over the rights to fires, and ignored fires in buildings whose owners didn't pay for protection.

The Republican ideal.
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lysosome Donating Member (205 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. Wish we could do that now.
Just leave the "paying taxes is tyranny" types to burn. See where free market services get them.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
3. If I own property, I must pay annual property taxes or lose my property.
I have nothing against paying for health care as such; it's the idea of being forced to purchase insurance from a private, profit making company that's the problem. What makes it worse, I think about 20% of my premiums go to "administration" and another 20% to the company's profit.
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. No person is forced to own real property.
The individual mandate to purchase health insurance is very different.

:dem:

-Laelth
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. I was thinking of property taxes as an automatic penalty for having a place to sleep.
That's the closest I could come to a health insurance mandate, since even renters pay a hidden property tax.
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Well, you're right to say that renters pay property taxes indirectly.
I wouldn't mind paying for health care indirectly, either. I suppose homeless people don't have to pay any property taxes, but they are the only people who I can think of who don't pay some kind of property taxes, either directly or indirectly except for members of religious orders, perhaps, who live on property that is tax exempt.

Either way, I know of no Federal action that is truly comparable to the individual mandate. It's unprecedented and probably unconstitutional, despite being just a very bad idea.

:dem:

-Laelth
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
4. We need a health warranty, not insurance.
100 years, unlimited mileage bumper to bumper body warranty.

Well, if we're using car analogies...
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Xenotime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
6. It's a human right guaranteed to all individuals.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
7. but you make the choice of whether you are educated. you make the choice of what you contribute to
Edited on Wed Sep-16-09 01:32 PM by seabeyond
society. you do have responsibilities too.

society does not demand. cannot control. but are dependent on another's choice

do i want to see mandated health care? absolutely not. it cannot be done by some, many. but each person that takes free medical care is part of my problem with ridiculously escalating prices in both health care cost and insurance.

there is a problem.... for all of us, that must be answered.
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. "each person that takes free medical care is part of my problem with ridiculously escalating prices"
Edited on Wed Sep-16-09 02:12 PM by Oregone
The cost of the uninsured adds 8% to the cost of insurance premiums (which can be eliminated with Medicare for All). Profit, exec pay, and various overhead expenses adds at least 31% to the cost of health care back in 1999 (15.6% of which can be saved with Medicare for All). Medical on-site billing or outsourcing on the delivery end adds an estimated 10% to the costs of health care (which can also be eliminated with Medicare for All).

Regardless, the cost of the uninsured is part, but a rather small part of the problem, and there are other areas where real definite cost control can be applied. And besides, mandates will still leave 17 million uninsured, which will continue to impact private premiums.

Is the cost (some which gets written of as tax deductions) of the uninsured a reasonable price to pay to avoid becoming a full Corporatocracy? The government should first prove that affordable medical coverage is available to everyone before they have any business mandating the purchase of it. Just as schools are mandated, they are so, but are also provided free. Without providing free access for all, it is absurd to require it.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. i argue nothing of what you say. i agree totally, understand and know.
i just didnt want to go thru all of it since i was addressing only a part of it.

the mandated insurance is one of the biggest problems i have with all this. as i said in my post, i know so many that cannot afford another bill.

but my concern is this bill will end up being mandatory inusurance, and we get nothing. windfall for the insurance co

but i was addressing th op... hence my post

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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
8. k&r
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
9. knr nt
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
12. I was very disappointed to hear Obama compare the two.
He's smart enough that they are very different in very significant ways.

:dem:

-Laelth
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
14. The problem is that the uninsured will show up at the ER
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
15. K&R
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
16. It is a basic human right. And the DLC'ers and their
Edited on Wed Sep-16-09 03:06 PM by truedelphi
Double Speak really really disgust me.

We need an Emanicpation Proclamation for real reform, not the "bipartisan," watered down and Corporate Friendly drivel that is coming from Baucus today.
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Ruby the Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-16-09 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
18. Like homeowners, some people can go an entire lifetime without filing a claim
Can the same be said for needing to see a Doctor or taking a prescription?

"Insurance" is a total misnomer when it comes to health coverage.
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