Help me to understand the race issue....

[BooScout]

A little background.......I'm living abroad (the UK), so while I do watch the US Evening Newscasts on satellite, read the blogs, read online news sources, make the rounds of the political forums and websites, etc........I'm still not there in the middle of things. So I ask the following questions sincerely. I want your opinions on why or if those who oppose Universal Health Care are racist. I can understand some may be opposing it because they don't like President Obama because he's black......but not everyone surely? It just seems to me that more dislike him because he's a Democrat.....but more and more I keep hearing it said that race is the underlying issue. Now I'm hearing Wilson is a racist. Well I know he's an ass, but is he a racist? How? I really feel sort of removed from it all and I'm hoping someone can bring me up to speed here. Thanks.

[Kutjara]

1. Healthcare opponents are using race as a lever.

They're making a big thing about "illegal immigrants" (read: brown people) and "welfare cases" (which has always been a handy pseudonym for black people) gaming the system, to convince the bigoted heart of white America that their tax dollars would be given away to "undeserving" minorities. While nobody can come out and say, "we don't want our money spent on keeping (insert racial epithet here) healthy," it's apparently perfectly acceptable to use alternative terms that mean basically the same thing.

[BooScout]

6. Thanks,.....

That makes sense.....and I just saw the picture of the nutty woman with her homemade 'African' sign. It's makes me incredibly sad to see such hatred put on blatent display.

[customerserviceguy]

24. She's news because of that sign

and something of a more benign sentiment is not news. That's why you saw her.

[ecstatic]

2. Kick for someone else to better explain things

But in a nutshell, racism isn't a cause for their views, it's just in addition to their views. If Clinton had won the presidency, there would still be a huge fight against healthcare for all; it's just that there wouldn't also be guns at the townhalls, and derogatory signs with racist overtones.

[HopeHoops]

12. See post #11 - did I do okay?

I would appreciate commentary if not.

[NightWatcher]

3. Wilson, from the enchanted land of South Carolina.......hmmm

Here's my preface, I've from Georgia, and I see a ton of people around me who are SCARED of Obama. They fear a black man in power. They hate him because they do not know of any other way to express their confusion about what he represents (a moderate Dem).

I've driven through Louisiana and seen David Duke billboards, I work with people who will come right out in pleasant conversation and say that Obama needs to be killed, I try to ask them about what they thought of GWB and they were not paying attention enough to know or care, but they know they hate Obama.

Racism is easy and even the dumbest of morans :) can hate Obama and make a racial slur without having to string together a complicate string of sylables to make a complete sentance or valid point.

Racism is big, dumb, and ugly, and my thoughts are with those whose job it is to protect him from the likes of the Jamer Earl Ray's out there.

[BooScout]

10. Thanks....

I'm originally from Georgia too.....but I never had a conversation like you have had with a co-worker........but then again I'm from very Liberal Decatur.

I know a friend of mine from back home emailed me a week or so ago, so disgusted that he seriously asked me for any advice I could give him about moving abroad. I think I may be starting to understand what is going on over there.........and it really is disturbing as hell.

[NightWatcher]

14. I'm from Sav and now working in North Jax.

I deal with blue collar types and I think they are scared. They talk about the few African Americans that they know or have worked with as "a good one"....but the rest of them are (n-words).

They are scared, whoa Nelly are they scared. They dont know why, but they are scared

[Chemisse]

18. I think you are totally right

And the hate is a way to alleviate the fear.

[Chemisse]

16. Wow.

I could not bear to live in the south. Of course there are racists here in New Hampshire. But it's officially frowned upon and they usually know better than to talk about it freely.

[tekisui]

4. It is an honest question to consider.

IMO, it is the level of vitriol for things that have very little to no effect on people. Their has been hatred of all things Obama from some groups since he started running. These groups have group and come together. There anger has nothing to do with policy. If you talk to most of them they are woefully ignorant or don't care. It is about hating a personality. Obama has done nothing to earn their hate.

Watch. It is continue to escalate, as is has with each issue. It doesn't matter what the issue or position will be.

He was hated for being a Muslim(racist). He has been challenged on 'being an American citizen(racist). He has been accused of being a Black President instead of The President(racist). He is a secret terrorist(racist). The 'protesters' are against Obama, not his policies. The same people will be at the rallies, regardless of the issue. Sure, there may be a few who really oppose reigning in the insurance companies, they are called lobbyists. Theses protesters want blood. It is personal and it is racist.

[Hello_Kitty]

5. They don't want to be in the waiting room with "those people"

They see universal health care as taking from hard working upstanding (re: white) people and giving a benefit to undeserving lazy brown people. Oh yeah, about resentment over having a black President too but there's a buttload of generic racism and class warfare in evidence too.

Wilson is a racist. He defended the Confederate flag being used as a symbol for SC and denounced Strom Thurmond's biracial daughter for "bringing shame" to his family by revealing her existence.

[JustAnotherGen]

25. Good job Hello_Kitty

Adding on - he was an aide to Strom Thurmond.

For the OP - Google: Strom Thurmond Filibuster 1957 Civil Rights Act.

I'm also of the the strong belief that Strom raped that 16 year old black 'servant' in his house. Go back 50-60 years - understand that a black girl in the South at that time had NO rights and no power.

Fast forward today - if it walks like a duck, and talks . . . Wilson is indeed THAT duck.

[kenny blankenship]

7. This can help explain

Uninsured Like Me Michael Lind, Salon

(Better to read the whole thing, but these excerpts contain valuable background.)

From the beginning, attempts to create a universal welfare state in
the U.S. have been thwarted by the fears of voters that they will be taxed to subsidize other Americans who are unlike them in race or ethnicity or culture. The original Social Security Act passed only after domestic workers and farmworkers -- the majority of black Americans, in the 1930s -- were left out of its coverage, at the insistence of white Southern politicians. Aid to Families With Dependent Children, a New Deal antipoverty program that became identified in the public mind with nonwhite "welfare queens," was a target of popular resentment for half a century before it was finally abolished by the Republican Congress and President Bill Clinton in the 1990s.

Racial resentments undoubtedly explain the use of "redistribution" and "socialism" as code words by John McCain, Sarah Palin and Republican working-class mascot "Joe the Plumber" during the 2008 presidential campaign. Similar themes have surfaced during the healthcare debate. Among the many popular fears that conservative opponents of healthcare reform play upon is the anxiety that elderly working Americans will have their Medicare benefits cut, or might even be encouraged to volunteer for euthanasia, to subsidize healthcare for the country's 12 million or so permanently resident illegal immigrants: "Kill Grandma to pay for Pedro."

Since the 1964 Civil Rights Act destroyed formal white supremacy in the U.S., every attempt to expand traditional social insurance in America has failed. Meanwhile, there has been a massive expansion in government-sponsored welfare going disproportionately to the white and affluent. What the political scientist Christopher Howard calls the hidden welfare state includes the tax-favored employer-provided health insurance that most working-age Americans depend on, as well as the home mortgage interest deduction and the childcare and child tax credits. Affluent and educated workers are more likely to work for employers who provide private health benefits than are low-skilled workers and employees of small businesses. Personal tax benefits like the home mortgage interest deduction are available only to the top half of households who pay federal income taxes, and are unavailable to lower-income workers who pay payroll taxes but no income taxes. In many cases, the benefits of this tax-credit welfare state increase with income.

[On the Road]

8. I Think Racism is Thrown Around Too Liberally

and used as a rationale for all kinds of opposing opinions.

However, I belive what the charges of racism are based on is a set of racial stereotypes and feelings of personal injury. There is a large element of the populist right wing who believes black people are lazy, avoid work, incur health problems due to vices like drug addiction, and in general are a burden on the rest of society. Any form of government support or subsidy, including welfare, unemployment, and government health care is perceived as a kind of theft by taking from the hard-working (ie, white) portion of soceity and giving to the indolent underserving darker races.

Those are the sterotypes that are being invoked. There are legitimate reasons people might oppose, say, a single payer system, higer deficits, or more taxes, but by observing behavior and reading protest signs it is easy to conclude that many of the most vocal opponents of Obama's health plan are buying into those stereotypes and that way of thinking.

[AuntPatsy]

9. Race is definitely the underlying issue which has escalated the amount of "well funded"

so called protests to any and all things that President Obama attempts to do...its more about not only ensuring he becomes what they call a lame duck president but that he also receives embarressment...case in point the "you lie" episode..those funding these protests are well aware that though unspoken racism has some deeply held roots inside the underbelly of the supposed melting pot of the world..

Now you say you are apparently well informed after watching the way the media handles issues here in the states also that you read many blogs..so to be honest..I am a bit shocked that you appear to be somewhat ignorant about what is now in play regarding our present government being in power..

To be honest I question your sincereity...because for me. Living here..hearing what I have heard from many americans I don't find an attempt to see this very real problem facing this country to be something to be taken so lightly...

[BooScout]

17. No,.... I'm sincere.....

It's hard to describe.......but to a big extent when you live abroad your are somewhat detached from it all. I don't go to an office or work in the States and hear what's being discussed. I'm not socializing with my friends stateside and discussing the current state of affairs. When I talk to my family we tend to avoid politics since it's a bone of contention........I'm a far left liberal...my brother is generally a slack ass politically until he spouts his right wing ideas without a lot of thought behind them so we avoid politics genrally.

I read a lot of things on the internet & can usually catch the NBC Nightly News on the satellite, but CBS News is generally too late for me, ABC News is spotty at best and CNN International is nothing like CNN stateside is.... but it's sometimes hard to understand whether an incident has been overblown, etc. That's why I asked the questions here. I need to have a 'conversation' to understand what people are talking about, what is going on, etc. It helps me understand is all.

[me b zola]

29. Living abroad....

...could one assume that you are from the States and you are familiar with our history and current culture? You say that you are watching CBS & ABC, but are you reading the wonderful links provided by DU to many very good sources of news?

Did you follow the election here, from primary to national? If you did, did you not witness how politicos race-baited to manipulate non-too-educated people's fears on race?

What do you think about all of the racist signs and statements since President Obama has been elected? Have you seen them? They are everywhere--posted widely at this website.

[BooScout]

39. I didn't say.....

That I watched CBS and ABC News.....I said I watched NBC news fairly regularly.......CBS sometimes (It's on much later here) and ABC is very spotty at best (in other words it's not on very often).

Yes, I'm from the States and familiar with it's history and culture....but I'm also familiar with those aruing politics slinging everything but the kitchen sink at the opposition.

I have seen a few racist signs posted here, but to be honest, I'm not a daily visitor. I get here when time allows which is sometimes a couple of days a week sometimes more, sometimes less. I also am trying to allow that I may be seeing the extremes in the situation. I wanted a feel for what people were seeing in their day to day lives, not what they could go out and google on bring up.

[HopeHoops]

11. It is an unfortunate fact that the Civil War never ended.

We have two types of racism in the US. Only the latter is a problem of significance.

The first type is simple ignorance. That can be cured by experience. In rural Pennsylvania, a black friend of mine actually had a guy say to him, "Golly, I ain't never met a black man before." He and I opened a lot of eyes together. This isn't the "racism" in question.

The second type is the problem, the one FOX is feeding. For these people, anyone who isn't white is a threat to "Amurka". As I'm sure you have noticed, English isn't their first language. I'm not even sure what to call it, but it isn't English. These people are driven by fear and hate. All of their problems are caused by "other kinds". FOX is fueling that hate, feeding them lies such as "Obama is Muslim", "Obama was born in Kenya", "Obama wants to kill Granny", and all the other silly shit you see on their signs.

The sad irony is that they are the ones who most need the changes Obama wants to institute. The least served areas in health care are the areas that feed the buses for the so called "grass roots" protests. They don't even understand what they are protesting. He's a black man in the "white" house. That's all FOX needs to keep them afraid.

Some regions of our country have evolved, but large areas have not. The solution is obviously education, but that's something the GOP opposes. Stupid people are easy to control. They are the GOP base.

I hope that helps.

[Zoeisright]

30. +1

[LuvNewcastle]

13. It isn't easy to explain.

The people who are against health care are against it because of the extra taxes to fund it and because they distrust the federal government. These people try to make the cause for health care seem illegitimate by questioning the status of Barack Obama's birth and calling Obama a communist or a Nazi. They also hold up racist signs in their protests. It isn't racist to be against health care reform, of course, but it is racist to protest it in the manner they do.

As for Joe Wilson, he's a member of a crypto-racist organization called the Sons of Confederate Veterans. That's why he's considered a racist.

[TheKentuckian]

15. They feel their traditional views on multiple levels being assaulted

race, political/economic ideology, region, education and its value, religion, being in the 21st rather than the 17th or 18th century, and it goes on and on.

American conservatism (regardless of which party it was inhabiting at a given time) has long and deep ties with institutionalized racism which makes the entire movement susceptible to both engaging and being accused of racism and to a large extent it is impossible to separate their general bigotry, class warfare, and greedy stupidity for either observers or participants anymore.

The general "oh fuck no" mentality certainly would be in full effect no matter who the Democrat was but the strident xenophobic batshittiness is almost exclusively race against blacks, Arabs, or both. They attempt to deflect from being racist by making it about Arabs/being from Africa/immigration policy violators to deflect from being racist but are so far gone they fail to get they are still be racist despite turning from a more traditional target.

[noiretextatique]

19. you say you are originally from georgia?

and you don't know anything about american racism? odd.

[BooScout]

20. I did not say that!

I'm well aware of racism thank you very much. And if you haven't bothered to read my posts in this discussion and only want to come in here insinuating bullshit then forget about it. Jeeeeeeeze.

[noiretextatique]

42. right..you know nothing about racism and you are from georgia

here's an example of racism from georgia. if you don't want to be insulted, don't insult.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4062423

[MadMaddie]

21. They claim that they oppose the high cost of a plan

to improve healthcare, yet they had no problem with the previous administration cooking the books and lying about the cost of the wars.

They claim that they care about freedom, yet they stood by while the previous administration stomped on the constitution.

They continually attempt to make President Obama a non-US citizen by various methods. The hoopla over his birth certificate, his birth place etc.

The posters from this weekends hate fest were a clear indication of the protestors intent, they cannot tolerate that a black man is president.

Sometimes it's not that complicated, they are not too smart and they feel superior to anyone that is not in their tribe. If a person of color, woman or gay raises above them then they hate them even more. It's pretty pathetic isn't it?

[Travis_0004]

26. I think the media is wrong on this

The fact is people are divided politically. There are some people who are racist, but it doesn't represent the majority. There were people who didn't like bush, there were people who didn't like Clinton and there are people who don't like Obama. These people opposed Clinton's health care, and there are people who oppose Obama's health care. If Hilary, or another White man was in office, we would still be see people opposed to these ideas.

[Hansel]

22. Here is a great blog if you really want to get into understanding it

http://www.redroom.com/blog/tim-wise

Tim Wise does a good job of dissecting the right wing media and how they are using racism to gin up opposition to Obama.

As far as the Tea Bag Party in Washington DC last weekend, Glenn Beck did a lot to promote that rally. One of his major talking points is that Obama is trying to get health care reform (among other programs like green jobs) passed as a method of introducing "stealth reparations" for America's Blacks. Nothing riles up the racists like the idea that Black might get reparations for enduring slavery in this country.

They have been made to believe by the Republican party and other corporatist that the reason that they are in the situations they are in and the reason that the government is in such huge debt is because we give all of the money they work so hard to earn to the "lazy Blacks". The idea of Obama being president absolutely infuriates them because they truly believe; thanks to idiots like Beck, Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh blowing racist dog whistles, that he is going to take all of their money and give it to the Blacks.

Their fuming about the money that Obama is spending is mostly due to the idea that they have been brain washed since Reagan into believing that Democrats take their money and give it away to the poor and undeserving. This is hogwash, of course, because the Democrats are too timid to spend the money on the people and the money is disproportionately given to corporations and their rich supporters by Republicans. I call this Reagans "look down not up" strategy and it's been working with these folks for over 35 years.

The little fairy tale about the big bad Dems giving all of the money to the poor (read Blacks or illegal immigrants) keeps these fools from recognizing what is really going on and keeps too many Republicans in power. When Glenn Beck tells the gullible that Obama's programs are "stealth reparations" they bite hard and easily. That is why the vast majority of the vitriol opposition you are seeing to health care reform from the right is largely based in racism. They will cut off their noses to spite their faces to keep Blacks and illegal aliens from "stealing their hard earned money" and the corporatist and RW politicians know this and laugh all the way to the bank.

[customerserviceguy]

23. Boo, you ask some good questions

I saw the race card finally played on ABC News tonight. I feel it's going to backfire on those using it. ABC did say that President Obama was trying to avoid being dragged into it, though.

Quite a bit of white America was willing to vote for Barack Obama because they felt he could take the country past the old racial divides that have been going on for centuries. They admired his deft handling of the Rev. Wright controversy, and figured that he was indeed an agent of change for racial reconciliation.

Those who look for racism in every possible opposition to the President from those to his right risk sending the folks in the middle into the arms of the right wing.

[tekisui]

28. You think his supporters in the middle will choose the RW

because the rabid right is accused of being racist? I don't see that happening. They would be joining potential racists because they didn't like those potential racists being called out for their racist tendencies.

[customerserviceguy]

31. There's that idea of "If I'm going to be called a racist anyway..."

Plus, there were a lot of Americans in rural or suburban areas who had misgivings about Barack Obama, but they just didn't really want a third Bush term with McLame. They knew that he had a progressive voting record in Congress, but they were hoping that Republicans and Blue Dogs they had elected down the ballot would keep some of his ideas in check.

Even Barack Obama must have always known that he would never get most of what he wanted. Now, you have people who are opposed to an Obama idea for traditional conservative reasons being called racist over it, I figure that is going to anger them.

President Obama has taken the moral high ground on this, just for that reason. He wants to acknowledge that not everybody will agree with every idea he articulates, and that like all Presidents, he needs to "sell" those ideas. He's gotta know that if the economy recovers, he'll be given more trust, and if it continues to falter, he will not have earned it.

He's stressed forgiveness and reconciliation in his messages, at some point I fear that he will have to come out and disavow the people who are flinging the race card at everyone who disagrees with him.

[tekisui]

32. There are plenty who don't oppose Obama for the policies,

but because of the personality. They have hated him since he was campaigning. These are the groups that are racist in there opposition and hate of all things Obama. Honest critics are few and far between. I rarely hear an intelligent conversation about policies. I hear a lot of ignorant hate about Obama, the person.

[customerserviceguy]

33. And I heard it about Hillary Clinton, too

The thing is, the really stupid people are the ones the media likes to cover.

Ever watch Jay Leno's "Jaywalking" sketches? You know that anyone who gives intelligent answers doesn't get on TV, only the people who are wrong, and ridiculously so. That's why we see so much of the worst of the teabaggers.

There are loads of conservative arguments against President Obama and his policies and appointments that have no basis in racism. They may be wrong, but that doesn't make them racist.

[tekisui]

34. You are spot on about the media loving an idiot.

They foment the hate with ever-increasing levels of stupidity. The conservative arguments are not being heard due to the idiots.

You would think that moderate conservatives would be just as outraged at the levels of vitriol because it drowns out the message they may be trying to get out. But, they don't stand up and denounce it. Why? I think they don't mind at all that racist rage is stealing the spot light. They encourage it, whether they are racist or not. They think that is is benefiting them, but I think they miscalculated.

[customerserviceguy]

35. They loved Joe Wilson, didn't they?

It's a way to dismiss the legitimate conservative arguments. I say that we let them play that game, and just stay high-minded about the whole thing, like the President does.

If it is seen that only the right is doing the irrational screeching, then our side looks like the reasonable ones. If we get down in the mud with them, then they have succeeded in bringing us down to their level. Barack Obama understands this perfectly. You don't go from being an unknown, unelected community organizer to being President of the United States in a relatively short time without having some seriously sharp people skills.

[tekisui]

36. I don't disagree with you.

I have a hard time, though, not calling out racist hate when I see it. I am not for generalizing or making a blanket statement. I think it is approaching a dangerous level. I am not sure what to do about it, but I think ignoring for the higher path, perhaps the nobler thing to do, is done at serious risk.

Honestly, I am not sure how to deal with rising hate. On the one hand, a strong reaction could exacerbate the problem. On the other, ignoring could allow it to grow.

[customerserviceguy]

38. When you call someone who is a low level nobody out

you give him a platform. There are all kinds of assclowns out there waiting for their fifteen minutes of fame. They're hoping to incite a violent reaction, or at least some sort of legal sanction that they can offer as proof of victimhood.

It's not ignoring it to say, "Most people who disagree with me are not racist." That's pretty much what the President has done. It acknowledges the existence, without painting everyone with the broad brush.

[BooScout]

40. I managed to catch CBS News....

and caught an interview with Jimmy Carter. I can see it escalating from my perspective 4500 miles away and appreciate all the feedback I am getting here to help me see what's going on.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

27. If you don't understand by now, I don't think you'll get it.

"I can understand some may be opposing it because they don't like President Obama because he's black......but not everyone surely?"

Just about. When was the last time you heard a legitimate complaint against Obama that made sense. A signficant majority of Obama's opposition thinks he wasn't born in America.

"Now I'm hearing Wilson is a racist. Well I know he's an ass, but is he a racist?"

Certainly. If his unprecedented mistreatment of the first black president doesn't do it for you, his defense of the Confederate flag and his support for white supremacist Strom Thurmond should.

[BooScout]

41. FYI.....

I didn't know anything about Wilson and the Confederate flag until this thread. Forgive me, but I do not live, eact, shit and breath politics 24/7. I asked my questions because I wanted to know. Instead I get condescending replys like yours. And yes, I may be a bit wary of those leveling racism charges against anyone who opposes President Obama......I certainly saw it done often enough in the primaries with no foundation.

[omega minimo]

37. (Healthcare) Issue + HateMedia + KoolAid Drinkers = Mindless Sloganeering + Race = AmeriKKKa