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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) |
IDemo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-14-07 12:54 PM Original message |
Electric Vehicles: Setting the Record Straight (and long!) |
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robinlynne (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-14-07 01:06 PM Response to Original message |
1. I can't wait to have an EV. I saw who killed the electric car a year ago and have |
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pretzel4gore (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-14-07 01:21 PM Response to Original message |
2. and they were making e cars back in model t time! |
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Greyhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-14-07 04:10 PM Response to Reply #2 |
15. The history of America can be defined as a 150 year long corporate |
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pretzel4gore (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-14-07 07:45 PM Response to Reply #15 |
30. if bush can be credited with anything |
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Greyhound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 05:24 PM Response to Reply #30 |
79. Or at least a catalyst, if not a hero. His utter incompetence has placed a spotlight |
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Jonathan50 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-14-07 01:25 PM Response to Original message |
3. I've seen an EV1 once.. |
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IDemo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-14-07 01:34 PM Response to Reply #3 |
4. Wrong and wrong |
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Jonathan50 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-14-07 03:13 PM Response to Reply #4 |
10. Whoops, I stand corrected.. |
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IDemo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-14-07 04:12 PM Response to Reply #10 |
17. You started last week with some false statements |
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ret5hd (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-14-07 04:44 PM Response to Reply #17 |
25. Just tell 'im the seat-covers are... |
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Jonathan50 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-14-07 07:51 PM Response to Reply #25 |
32. I have a loved one doing hard time right now for a simple possession "drug crime" |
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ret5hd (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-14-07 08:43 PM Response to Reply #32 |
34. ...never mind |
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Jonathan50 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-14-07 07:50 PM Response to Reply #17 |
31. I pointed out normal driving conditions in the area I live in |
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IDemo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-14-07 09:55 PM Response to Reply #31 |
35. The 40% number for diesel efficiency is not end-to-end |
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Jonathan50 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-14-07 10:19 PM Response to Reply #35 |
37. Here's where I got the figure for diesel efficiency. |
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Jonathan50 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 08:08 AM Response to Reply #35 |
50. I think you quoted the well to pump efficiency at 82.5 % |
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muriel_volestrangler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 08:55 AM Response to Reply #50 |
51. Your 38% efficiency is for a diesel running at its most efficient |
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Jonathan50 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 10:04 AM Response to Reply #51 |
53. Diesels are most efficient at low power settings, such as in a cruise. |
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muriel_volestrangler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 11:39 AM Response to Reply #53 |
63. Who says they're most efficient at low power? |
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Jonathan50 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 11:44 AM Response to Reply #63 |
64. That doesn't necessarily speak to the efficiency of the diesel engine. |
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Jonathan50 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 12:02 PM Response to Reply #63 |
65. Audi says so.. |
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muriel_volestrangler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 01:44 PM Response to Reply #65 |
72. That's relative to a gasoline engine |
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Jonathan50 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-16-07 01:05 AM Response to Reply #72 |
84. That map is for full power, not idle fuel consumption. |
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muriel_volestrangler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-16-07 03:38 AM Response to Reply #84 |
85. And you have 0% efficiency when idling, by definition |
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Jonathan50 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-16-07 05:58 AM Response to Reply #85 |
88. And an EV is 0% efficient when it is sitting still with all the accessories going. |
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muriel_volestrangler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-16-07 07:00 AM Response to Reply #88 |
92. No, the lowest torque reading on the map is about 50 Nm |
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Jonathan50 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-16-07 07:41 AM Response to Reply #92 |
93. Still not an idle situation. |
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muriel_volestrangler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-16-07 09:00 AM Response to Reply #93 |
95. But we know the efficiency at idle - 0% |
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Jonathan50 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-16-07 09:53 AM Response to Reply #95 |
97. I already pointed out that the EV also has an efficiency of 0% at a standstill |
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muriel_volestrangler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-16-07 11:00 AM Response to Reply #97 |
99. Yes, I know you did |
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Jonathan50 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-16-07 11:32 AM Response to Reply #99 |
101. You repeated yourself first, why may I not do the same? |
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muriel_volestrangler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-16-07 12:15 PM Response to Reply #101 |
103. I repeated myself because you asked again about the efficiency at idle |
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IDemo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 12:19 PM Response to Reply #50 |
66. From the US Department of Energy |
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Jonathan50 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 12:56 PM Response to Reply #66 |
69. The Tesla has a driveline, just like an IC car. |
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Jonathan50 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-16-07 09:34 AM Response to Reply #66 |
96. Looking at your graphic above.. |
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muriel_volestrangler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-16-07 12:12 PM Response to Reply #96 |
102. I think you're using a few figures from the graphic incorrectly |
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Jonathan50 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-16-07 01:35 PM Response to Reply #102 |
107. I would really like to know what speed those figures were taken at. |
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IDemo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-16-07 12:37 PM Response to Reply #96 |
105. regenerative braking: your results may vary |
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Jonathan50 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-16-07 01:19 PM Response to Reply #105 |
106. Certainly regenerative braking will extend the range of the vehicle |
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wtmusic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 01:38 AM Response to Reply #31 |
44. Yes, there was an EV that could do the job |
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Jonathan50 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 07:44 AM Response to Reply #44 |
48. The EV1 wasn't even close to being capable of what I described. |
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wtmusic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 10:50 AM Response to Reply #48 |
58. You're getting desperate |
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Jonathan50 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 11:15 AM Response to Reply #58 |
60. Most apartments don't have garages. |
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DCKit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 02:33 PM Response to Reply #31 |
77. We get it. IT'S NOT FOR YOU |
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Jonathan50 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 08:13 PM Response to Reply #77 |
82. I know EVs will suit some people. |
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MindPilot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 01:14 PM Response to Reply #10 |
71. It's your refusal to look at the situation as anything but all or nothing. |
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Jonathan50 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 08:22 PM Response to Reply #71 |
83. I don't think that I have posted anything about EVs except in the last few weeks. |
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Touchdown (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-14-07 05:41 PM Response to Reply #3 |
28. Looks like it's got heat and A/C on the console to me. |
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chaska (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-14-07 01:47 PM Response to Original message |
5. I haven't read this yet (I will though), but I think it's a mistake..., |
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IDemo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-14-07 01:56 PM Response to Reply #5 |
6. I'm not saying we will 'continue on the way things are' |
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chaska (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-14-07 02:23 PM Response to Reply #6 |
7. I agree wholeheartedly... |
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muriel_volestrangler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 09:04 AM Response to Reply #6 |
52. Has anyone done any studies comparing light rail to a battery-powered bus? |
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wtmusic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 11:17 AM Response to Reply #52 |
61. And even when the infrastructure is already there |
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conscious evolution (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-14-07 02:50 PM Response to Original message |
8. Great post |
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chaska (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-14-07 03:06 PM Response to Original message |
9. Introducing Alice Friedemann.... |
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YankeyMCC (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-14-07 03:51 PM Response to Original message |
11. Good job |
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jbnow (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-14-07 03:58 PM Response to Original message |
12. Is it too late |
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IDemo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-14-07 04:06 PM Response to Reply #12 |
13. Apologies to all on the display of the post |
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druidity33 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-14-07 04:07 PM Response to Reply #12 |
14. agreed... i can't really read it. n/t |
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Gabi Hayes (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-14-07 04:16 PM Response to Reply #14 |
18. really...great stuff, but I'm not going to read it the way it's formatted. please start a new |
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gravity (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-14-07 04:11 PM Response to Original message |
16. The main problem with electric cars is the energy density of the batteries |
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IDemo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-14-07 04:17 PM Response to Reply #16 |
19. Five times 50 miles, actually |
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gravity (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-14-07 04:20 PM Response to Reply #19 |
21. That's if you spend $90k for a two seater |
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IDemo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-14-07 04:23 PM Response to Reply #21 |
22. See post #17 above |
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gravity (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-14-07 04:30 PM Response to Reply #22 |
23. I'll believe it when I see it. |
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IDemo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-14-07 04:20 PM Response to Original message |
20. Mods - is there anyway the edit window can be re-opened to fix this? |
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Duppers (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-14-07 04:40 PM Response to Original message |
24. K & R |
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Gregorian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-14-07 05:24 PM Response to Original message |
26. It's pretty simple. |
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IDemo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-14-07 06:18 PM Response to Reply #26 |
29. The GREET link works, but it may take a while to display |
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happydreams (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-14-07 05:35 PM Response to Original message |
27. Damn this is a weird bit of de-ja vu. .... |
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Jcrowley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-14-07 07:57 PM Response to Original message |
33. Good work |
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seasat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-14-07 10:10 PM Response to Original message |
36. Zapx Lotus designed EV SUV is what I want. |
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Jonathan50 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-14-07 11:25 PM Response to Reply #36 |
38. Recharge the batteries in ten minutes? |
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Jonathan50 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 12:29 AM Response to Reply #36 |
41. A couple of more points on the Lotus EV |
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skids (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-14-07 11:47 PM Response to Original message |
39. Which is why I upgraded my Prius... |
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Daedelus76 (133 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 12:18 AM Response to Original message |
40. How about cost? |
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Jonathan50 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 01:20 AM Response to Reply #40 |
43. I put 25,000 miles on a '82 Honda FT 500 and never spent a nickle on maintenance |
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wtmusic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 01:39 AM Response to Reply #43 |
45. What, no heater? |
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Dead_Parrot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 05:44 AM Response to Reply #45 |
46. No roof either, by the look of it... |
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Jonathan50 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 07:48 AM Response to Reply #46 |
49. None of them cost a fraction of $93,000 either |
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wtmusic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 12:45 AM Response to Original message |
42. Great work IDemo |
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razzleberry (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 06:53 AM Response to Original message |
47. why did Honda squish all their EV+s ...? |
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sendero (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 10:07 AM Response to Original message |
54. Very nice.. |
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ThomWV (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 10:14 AM Response to Original message |
55. Did Any of You People Actually Read The Article? |
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Jonathan50 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 10:44 AM Response to Reply #55 |
56. Which article are you referring to? |
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razzleberry (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 10:48 AM Response to Reply #55 |
57. the-electric-car cuts the petroleum pigs out of the deal |
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wtmusic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 11:03 AM Response to Reply #55 |
59. Where does it say that? |
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ThomWV (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 12:33 PM Response to Reply #59 |
67. Second Paragraph ... if you had bothered to look |
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Gregorian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 12:47 PM Response to Reply #67 |
68. Or in better power generation. |
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piedmont (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 12:57 PM Response to Reply #67 |
70. They didn't ignore it at all. |
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wtmusic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 01:56 PM Response to Reply #67 |
73. They ignore the loss from coal seam to electrical outlet? |
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muriel_volestrangler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 01:58 PM Response to Reply #67 |
74. No, you've misunderstood it |
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Jonathan50 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 03:20 PM Response to Reply #74 |
78. Over half of US generating capacity is coal fired. |
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piedmont (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 05:34 PM Response to Reply #78 |
81. Even if ALL U.S. electric production were coal-fired... |
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Jonathan50 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-16-07 06:02 AM Response to Reply #81 |
89. And your proof for that is what? |
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piedmont (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-16-07 10:10 AM Response to Reply #89 |
98. From the vehicle efficiencies in the OP. |
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Jonathan50 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-16-07 06:54 PM Response to Reply #98 |
110. I question the validity of that.. |
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piedmont (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Apr-17-07 02:11 PM Response to Reply #110 |
111. Such as??? |
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conscious evolution (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-16-07 06:42 AM Response to Reply #78 |
91. Probable true |
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Jonathan50 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-16-07 07:49 AM Response to Reply #91 |
94. Greenhouse emissions means CO2.. |
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IDemo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-16-07 11:07 AM Response to Reply #94 |
100. Pollutants, CO2, EVs, ICEs, and coal |
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Paulie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 11:37 AM Response to Original message |
62. I didn't see it, but these performance metrics are at what operating temperature? |
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Morereason (496 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 02:06 PM Response to Reply #62 |
75. Anyone discussing the health effects of EMFs? |
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MindPilot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 02:31 PM Response to Reply #75 |
76. Probably not significant |
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Rosemary2205 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-15-07 05:28 PM Response to Original message |
80. All I care is how far will it go in a day with a big payload. |
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muriel_volestrangler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-16-07 03:44 AM Response to Reply #80 |
86. Very few people cover 700 miles in one go |
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Jonathan50 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-16-07 06:04 AM Response to Reply #86 |
90. We live near Atlanta |
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and-justice-for-all (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-16-07 03:59 AM Response to Original message |
87. thanx IDemo for the post...That truck is Hot!! nt |
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Bushwick Bill (605 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-16-07 12:23 PM Response to Original message |
104. Problems... |
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EnviroBat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-16-07 01:36 PM Response to Original message |
108. Your post is fantastic! |
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IChing (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-16-07 02:37 PM Response to Original message |
109. Toyota Prius can't pass GEORGIA's emissions test(because the state is ignorant) |
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