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As Joe Kennedy considers run, Chávez ties loom

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Bushknew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 09:56 AM
Original message
As Joe Kennedy considers run, Chávez ties loom
Edited on Sun Sep-06-09 10:06 AM by Bushknew
Source: The Boston Globe

As Joseph P. Kennedy II contemplates a race to reclaim the Senate seat held by his family for nearly half a century, his most formidable obstacle may not be a Massachusetts politician but a political leader some 2,000 miles away: President Hugo Chávez of Venezuela.

Over the past four years, Citizens Energy Corp., the signature nonprofit founded by Kennedy in 1979 as a political launching pad, has grown from a local charity serving 10,000 Massachusetts homes a year into a national effort delivering free fuel to 200,000 households in 23 states.

Since 2005, Citizens’ 877-JOE-4-OIL campaign has been sustained by the oil fields of Venezuela. Chávez, who controls the industry there, has delivered crude oil at no charge to a Citizens affiliate, which has resold it and used the money to pay for oil deliveries to America’s poor. In the past two years, Citizens has been given 83 million gallons of crude by Chávez and sold it for $164 million - money used to fund almost its entire philanthropic mission.

*** There are many in politics who believe that in a state as liberal as Massachusetts, with a philanthropy as respected as Citizens, that the Chávez connection would not amount to a significant obstacle for Kennedy. ***

Read more: http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/09/06/as_joe_kennedy_considers_run_chvez_ties_loom/?page=1



What a backward country we are if it did.


It really says something when a foreign country can afford to give crude oil to the poor in the US while we can not.
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
1. It wouldn't matter at ALL. People LOVE him for the oil program. It would be a help!

The usual reaction to the 'Joe for Oil Program'.

'God bless him'...

'Those Kennedys...we are so lucky to have them'...

Kennedy will win. Massachusetts LOVES the Kennedys, and they will want to honor Ted with another Kennedy. This runs VERY deep.
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Dennis Donovan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
2. What utter horseshit...
A man who gets heating oil to poor people? They're going to criticize him for THIS???

The Repiglican Party is OUT OF CONTROL. Enough is enough, for God's sake...:eyes::mad:
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d_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
3. oh noz
he has better ask president beck what he thinks of all this =/
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
4. That is one of his good points. There are a lot of us who are poor these days.
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Bushknew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
5. I don't know why this was moved to the General discussion when the article
just came out today.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. I'd like to know the answer, as well. It concerns an American politican.
It's under 12 hours old.

Doesn't add up. Not one bit.
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Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. Surprised it wasn't kicked over to the Latin America forum.
Funny how more stories about the goings-on in Florida's banana republic, Miami, are ending up there. ;)


-

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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. It's a real shame Miami politicians & their Congressional allies control US Latin American policy.
It's no small matter when you learn how far their reach is from South Florida. As has been pointed out in many places, that group of anti-Castro Cubans has a disproportionate power in US relations toward countries south of our border.

Very much US political business, very much relative to the LBN forum. Sad to see this discrimination.
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Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I guess we can get down to Kennedy/Chavez bashing in LBN if and when he announces.
For now, the mudslinging must take place on DU's other forums - unless Chavez does something outrageous. ;)

:hi:



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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. His "outrageous" moves have been stories the opposition has spun, which always fade away
almost as quickly as they get shoved onto the front pages, almost as quickly as the story disappeared about the Bush-backed armed kidnapping and coup against Hugo Chavez, but the mudslinging here goes on forever, and keeps resurfacing long after it has been examined, disproven, and defanged.

Still, never expected to see a Kennedy story moved to another forum when it's under 12 hours old.

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Bushknew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. I'm not a Marxist & certainty not a Batista but the hatred Batista's have ...
Edited on Sun Sep-06-09 01:43 PM by Bushknew
against Castro only punishes the Cuban people and not Castro.

Forget about the embargo, these Miami Batista's even try to ban musical groups from
playing in Cuba. Depriving the Cuban people even of entertainment.

They don't give a shit about their own people. Batistas never did, they
just want their land back.
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Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. It's not the Batistano's embargo and sanctions. It is the US's embargo/sanctions.
Edited on Sun Sep-06-09 03:43 PM by Billy Burnett
They do make an easy foil though.

It is the US "democratic" system that isn't functional at all when it comes to making progress on this issue.

It really is this simple ...

The Cuba policy platform campaign funding for politicians on both con and pro sides of the sanctions stand to lose funding streams if the sanctions were to be lifted.

Few American politicians give a whit about the Cuban people (or the American people, for that matter).




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Bushknew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. It still boggles my mind how some people could even think of equating ...


political contributions as part of "freedom of speech."
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
6. People in Massachusetts like to be warm in the winter and Chavez
has helped them do so. It won't be an impediment to Joe at all. The sorry truth is, Hugo Chavez was there when LIHEAP wasn't.
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
8. While this may be "controversial" on Fox News, I'm sure the good people of
Massachusetts appreciate Kennedy's efforts to keep them warm with affordable heat in the winter.
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Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
9. A net + in that state. Not to worry.
A possible LT drawback if he decides to run nationally at some point. ( Which isn't very likely since he's already 56.)
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. So he'd be good to go, for many years, following his uncle's example. n/t
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
10. Bless Joe & Chavez for this.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
15. This article is a good example of the utter horseshit in our corpo/fascist press about Chavez.
The Reichwing lies, constantly, about everything. The corp/fascist press trumpets their lies as if they were reliable information or rational opinion. This becomes the brick wall against which progressives, who represent the vast majority, must bang their heads to justify even the mildest of decent policies, like providing free heating oil to the poor in the dead of winter--or providing health care to all.

Having poor people die from cold and exposure in their hovels in the dead of winter, and having pandemics of tuberculosis and other preventable diseases, because the poor can't afford medical care, are not even good for rich people. This is what progressive policy--the overwhelming and positive trend in human history--is all about --dragging rich people, kicking and screaming, to the common sense realization that, if there are no roads, if there are no public hospitals, if there are no public schools, if there are no fire and other emergency services, if there were no Social Security and Medicare, if there were no environmental regulation of air and water quality, if there is no regulation of banks and financial institutions, if poor and middle class people cannot afford medical care, if there are no laws about product safety, etc.--that is, if a society fails to provide commonly funded "common good" programs, that society is unlivable, even for the rich.

Against this RATIONAL and DECENT notion, the Reichwing in this country--funded by global corporate predators and war profiteers, and given a Big Trumpet by the corpo/fascist media--pose the IRRATIONAL and INDECENT idea that the well-off have no responsibility for society at all. Thus the parameters of public debate become, not which progressive "common good" projects are best, or how best to organize them, or how to pay for them in the fairest way, but rather, whether or not to entirely abandon human decency and the "common good" --a completely irrational and anti-democratic position.

The Chavez government has its viewpoint on the "common good"--supported by consistently high approval ratings of nearly 60% from the people of Venezuela, in polls and elections. It is a mixed capitalist/socialist system that produced a sizzling economic growth rate over the last five years (2003 to 2008) of nearly 10%, with the most growth in the private sector (not including oil), while accumulating a $43 billion international cash reserve ("rainy day" fund), based on two main principles: social justice (decent schools and medical care for all; pensions for the elderly; decent wages; help to small business; maximum citizen participation in politics and government, etc.) and use of the country's resources to help the people who live there and also to help create viable trading partners among the country's neighbors (thus, Venezuela, for instance, helped bail Argentina out of World Bank/IMF ruination, with low cost loans and barter trades).

While the Chavez government are aggressive socialists, a close ally like Brazil, led by Lula da Silva, has goals that are increasingly similar to those of the Bolivarian Revolution, but have a much bigger portion of capitalism in their economic mix. Each country is different, but the trend is overwhelmingly toward the "common good"--rather like our society once was (from the 1930s and FDR through the 1970s and Jimmy Carter).

The best thing for the people of the U.S. would be to join with these countries in adjusting capitalist/socialist policies to achieve the greatest good. We should be partners and cooperators with the great leftist democracy movement that has swept South America and half of Central America. Instead, what are we talking about here? Consider this section of the Boston Globe article:

---

"There are many in politics who believe that in a state as liberal as Massachusetts, with a philanthropy as respected as Citizens, that the Chávez connection would not amount to a significant obstacle for Kennedy.

“'I don’t think you’re going to persuade the public that Citizens Energy and delivering free oil to people who can’t afford it is a bad thing. I really don’t think that’s going to stick,’ said William F. Weld, a Republican and a former governor of Massachusetts. “(Kennedy’s) not loony left at all, and I think he could be very good in office.'

"But in a taste of what Kennedy might expect from a Republican opponent in a general election, or even a conservative Democrat in a primary, one operative said the issue could be pivotal in a campaign.

“'If Joe were to become a candidate, he would have to answer some very uncomfortable questions about his personal and business relationships with Hugo Chávez,’ said Eric Fehrnstrom, a Republican political consultant and adviser to Mitt Romney, the state’s former governor. 'Chávez is not a friend to the United States, and he has used his PR machinery and oil to spread anti-American propaganda - and played Joe Kennedy for a very convenient stooge.'’’
--Boston Globe

------

Consider that "but," first of all. Despite the utter unreasonableness of the right, the nutball rightwing position is treated as a reasonable position. Guess why? Cuz when the campaign gets going, the Boston Globe and the rest of the corpo/fascist press are NOT going to ask the corpo/fascist tool candidate any common sense questions about it--like, WHY is Chavez "not a friend of the United States"?, or, WHAT EXACTLY has Chavez done to harm the United States?--but instead they are going to unquestioningly repeat and promulgate those Reichwing views, as if that were a reasonable political discussion.

Now, ask yourself those questions--WHY is Chavez "not a friend of the United States"?, or, WHAT EXACTLY has Chavez done to harm the United States?

Is it not true that all the harm has gone the other way? The US and its "free trade for the rich" policies harming the people of Venezuela, who give Chavez a 60% approval rating for, among other things, fighting back? And is it not true that the US (Bushwhacks) supported the Reichwing military coup against Chavez's elected government in 2002? And is it not true that this has been typical behavior by the US over the last forty years?

And still Latin Americans are extending a hand of friendship to the US--including the Citgo program--after all this bullshit we have done to them. Of course it's P.R. No question about it. But it is also REAL. Real, material help to the poor, here. To call it "P.R." is to call it bullshit. George Bush bringing "freedom" to Iraq is bullshit. The Chavez government providing free heating oil to the poor of the US is not bullshit.

The Boston Globe then drags out one of their on-call "experts"--a member of the Reichwing Venezuelan government prior to Chavez--to say the following:

"But that comes at a cost to his own people, who earn an average of $8,300 per year, said Ricardo Hausmann, a minister in the Venezuelan government before Chávez took power.

“'It would be very awkward to imagine that in a democratic society, the average Venezuelan would vote to subsidize somebody significantly richer than they are,' said Hausmann, who now directs Harvard’s Center for International Development."
--Boston Globe

It would be "very awkward to imagine"? Venezuela IS a democratic society! Provably so! Their elections are not only internationally certified as transparent and aboveboard, their elections are far, FAR more transparent than our own! And their levels of citizen participation put us to shame! The "average Venezuelan" strongly supports the Chavez government. Provably so! So what is this bullshit--from the Venezuelan Reichwing--that these things "would be very awkward to imagine"?

The Boston Globe assembles all the bullshit they can find, from all the bullshit sources we see used time and again, to promulgate and trumpet a pack of goddamn lies about Chavez that we have not seen since the WMDs that weren't in Iraq.

I am not objecting to the Boston Globe reporting what the Reichwing will try to throw at Joseph Kennedy. But that is not what they are doing here, in the subtext.

Did you notice that they didn't quote ANYBODY rebutting these bogeyman charges against Chavez?

They let a member of the former Reichwing opposition government of Venezuela--a government that open fired on protestors, slaughtering hundreds of people; a government that destroyed Venezuela's economy and couldn't give a fuck about most Venezuelans--questioning Venezuela's democracy now that the Left is successfully running the government--and presuming that the "average Venezuelan" is too stupid to understand Chavez government foreign policy, and NOT PROVIDING ANY REBUTTAL.

The subtext of this article is that the Reichwing (corpo/fascist) position on Chavez is reasonable. It is not. The Boston Globe is arguing for it. They present no evidence to the contrary--and, believe me, there is plenty of it. They therefore help the Reichwing here push Joseph Kennedy into a defensive position on one of the best "help the poor" projects in the country, and the best--in fact, the only--example of what our government should be doing to create friendly and cooperative relations with Latin American democracies. Working together. Solving common problems. Discussing ways of serving the "common good." Instead of demonizing Latin America's elected leaders and trying to overthrow their democratic governments!

Here's what Lula da Silva, president of Brazil, said about Chavez: "They can invent a lot of things to criticize Chavez, but not on democracy!"

How come that viewpoint is not in this article?



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Bushknew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. Ha ha, I'll address the "P.R charge" ......
It is always said that the ulterior motive of Chavez's humanitarian work is for the PR.

Come on, has his standing in the media improved because of his humanitarian? LOL!!!!! Give me a break.

Besides, the US never does anything in its own interest or with ulterior motives.
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
17. Dick and Rummy's ties to Saddam did not matter..
so why should Kennedy's to Chavez?
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-06-09 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
18. Heating oil keeps people warm against severe cold.
Edited on Sun Sep-06-09 01:07 PM by saltpoint
Joe Kennedy's organization provides said oil to the poor.

Good on Joe Kennedy.
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