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I have a feeling we have lost the Healthcare debate

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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:24 AM
Original message
I have a feeling we have lost the Healthcare debate
and it is the President and Rahm's fault. Rahm even shares more blame for the type of candidates he recruited over the past 4 years.

A man who so effectively marketed himself over 18 months couldn't market reform as effectively.

Shame, people will die and we will lose control of the house and senate in 2010 possibly.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
1. we will get exactly what was intended all along
it's a fucking dog and pony show
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Mystayya Donating Member (324 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yup- snowballed again
Except this time I was stupid enough to believe.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. I've never been snowballed
I've seen it from the beginning
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #4
20. neither have I. I have been a "hater", as they call me, from day
one and I feel vindicated more and more as each day passes. I wasn't expecting to to be so brazen though.
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #20
44. And likely a "racist" hater, at that.
Only the hardcore cheerleaders of The Game, and the conservative types, are really like that, though.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #44
64. pathetic
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LaydeeBug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
37. I've long thought this was the case, but I will take a "wait and see" approach, but we have already
compromised from "single payer" to "public option".

I think this is about Obama letting Big Health know he'll play ball.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #37
40. he's been playing ball with them all along
fuck, he is ON THEIR TEAM
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
3. I wish more of the "sky-is-falling" types like you would be willing to put their money where their
...mouth is.


I'd make a small fortune.... just in time for Christmas... when a sweeping Health Care Reform bill is signed.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. define sweeping Healthcare reform bill
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #5
14. you hearing crickets too? n/t
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #14
22. Jeesus... you might give me a little more than 4 minutes to respond... LOL...
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. why? you seem to have it all in hand -- can't define it that quickly?
n/t
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #25
31. A) post #27

B) Question was asked of me at 11:28am EDT. Not having a response by 11:32am EDT does not meet the definition of "crickets?". That's, frankly, retarded.

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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #31
42. and the response falls into the retarded group -- definitely NOT sweeping
:shrug:
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #5
27. Here's how I'd define it

- Coverage available to all. If not through an employer, then through a public mechanism.
- No one can be denied coverage because of pre-existing conditions
- No one can have their coverage terminated because they got sick


Those three things... would represent a revolution in Health Care reform in this country.


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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:42 AM
Original message
any price caps to go with that non-denial section?
Because frankly, unless there are, the insurance companies will just price those with pre-existing conditions out of the market. I know, my family has lived this horror show before.

I wouldn't hold my breath on a public anything. And backroom meetings with Big Pharma with NO transparency (remember THAT lost campaign promise?) means consumers will get NO help in forcing the pharma groups to stop profiting off our backs, while they sell their drugs for less elsewhere.

Ain't much of a *sweeping* reform. A tiddle here, a category name change there - and campaign contributions and lobbying still get carried on as usual... :shrug:
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
43. Pricing those with pre-existing conditions out of the market, to me, is "denying coverage"

Let me rephrase that point:

- Guaranteed affordable coverage, regardless of pre-existing conditions.



Better?
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #43
52. you obviousy have never had to deal with insurance companies directly
sure, they won't DENY it, but THEY set the prices. NOWHERE in any of the information coming out of all of this has there been any REAL mention of AFFORDABILITY.
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #52
56. Yes... a 42-yr-old married man with 2 children has NEVER dealt with an insurance company

You have me pegged.

:eyes:



My family and I are immortals. Never been sick. Never been to a hospital. In fact, my wife gave birth to our two kids in our kitchen. We just mopped up the mess and went back to watching American Idol.

:sarcasm:
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #56
61. And you have NEVER had an insurance company turn you down COLD for coverage
Again with the *my take on the grand scheme of things is the ONLY way I can comprehend this* -- nice blinkers dear. You should get matching pom poms for all the cheerleading you do here.

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placton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #27
51. Are you truly dulliwtted enough to buy that?
It's the old bait and switch.
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #51
53. +1
:thumbsup:
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #51
58. What was the bait? What in my post do you NOT think is a good idea?

...and each thing is a pretty revolutionary change from the status quo.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Oh to be a dreamer
I'm facing reality.

Obama's gonna throw everybody under the bus so he can say he got a bill passed and signed.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. and the bill will be absolute shit
and we won't have another bite at the apple for 15 years.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. And it will actually make matters WORSE
and the insurance companies will get RICHER.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #9
33. How do you know all this? Are you in the administration?
Can you cite any precedent? Do you have any pertainant information at all?

Or is it just a pessimistic guess? If so, why are you stating your guess as fact?
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. Yeah, because someone in the administration is going to go around calling what they'll pass shit
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #7
18. How do you know that? Can you cite precedent?
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #18
30. Hmmm
Iraq
Afghanistan
Bailouts for hte rich and diddly crap for the working class.

Nah, no precedent there.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:40 AM
Original message
All BushCo initiated plans. Try again.
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #7
38. You're so up-and-down with your optimism/pessimism that it's amazing you're not throwing up
..from the vertigo.


Wait. until. the. 9th. to. see. what. Obama. says.

And then.... wait until you see what the bill looks like that ends up on his desk.




Quit being a chicken little.
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Mystayya Donating Member (324 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. I think you would lose your shirt on a bet like that.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #8
19. It depends on how willing one is to call whatever ends up passed a sweeping reform
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Mystayya Donating Member (324 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. True
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. yeah that mandated health insurance will sure be a blessing to the insurance companies
Edited on Thu Sep-03-09 11:33 AM by Donnachaidh
And think of all the FINES the unemployed will get hit with, just in time to boost the budget so Tim Geithner and his pals can rev up the bank bailout for next year....
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #3
16. Define sweeping. I have little doubt that something will be passed, but a lot of doubt that it...
will be anything worth having passed.
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #16
21. it will be a bailout for the health insurance companies and price protection for Pharma
Consumers better go stock up on lubricant NOW. :sarcasm:
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Craftsman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #16
26. Agreed
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #16
28. So giving up and giving in is your advice?
That's just stupid.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. Is that what I fucking said?
You know what's stupid? Your post!
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #29
36. So, give us your advice, or get off the pot.
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #36
47. same back atcha dear
You seem to be rah rah -- what advice do YOU give, besides jumping on people who are voicing concerns?
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #47
50. My advice is the keep up the pressure on the President and your Reps..
For a strong public option. Which BTW has consistently been the position of the President, regardless of how the MSM reports it.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #36
62. How about I shit on plans that suck instead?
Edited on Thu Sep-03-09 01:37 PM by JVS
:hurts:

Ahhh, that's better
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #28
46. well, when the president still wants to play in the sandbox with pukes
and HIS responses to daily queries change like the weather -- you tell us HOW we're supposed to fight? Posting snotty comments to people who are on this board, calling them stupid and/or retarded?

This is NOT an Oprah gathering. Sorry if I forgot the pompoms. :eyes:
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #46
55. The President has been consistent RE the public option
It's the media and the GOP that are schizophrenic. I thought everyone here already knew that, guess not.

And no, I haven't called anyone "stupid and/or retarded", please quit making shit up.
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #55
68. really? Sure....
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #16
41. My response is in post #27

You can agree or disagree.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #41
63. Thanks, I'll take a look.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
6. It's a mystery.
A man who so effectively marketed himself over 18 months couldn't market reform as effectively. :thumbsup:
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Stevenmarc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
10. Lost the healthcare debate? You can't lose what never happened
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grassfed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
11. BIG PHARMA RAHM
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
15. Quitting at half-time is a sure way to lose
Just ask Sarah Palin.

Meanwhile, we're still fighting to win. You're welcome to join the celebration after you're done moping.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. I watched Joe Sestak get his ass kicked last night in a debate
because the way the debate is being framed by the democrats.

The score is 46-7 and their is 15 minutes to play
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #17
23. 70% of the people want a public option
The administration and congress have consistently stated that a bill will not pass without a public option.

You're a pessimist, that's fine, but please don't make up shit and call it fact. Where did you get that score?
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #23
32. And it's being reported consistently that the public option is dead
and that Obama will announce its demise on the 9th.
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. being "reported" by RW news outlets.... NOBODY in the White House has said that
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #34
49. that's the problem isn't it? The WH cannot seem to GROW A SET
can they? Seems to some of us that what NEEDS to be said and WHO it needs to be said BY - is NOT getting done.

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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #49
57. That's true, if you ignore everything the WH and Dems have said.
The media is really good at it, but I never thought DU trusted the freaking media.
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #49
60. They've only said they favor the Public Option about a million times

.... I guess it needs to be 2 million before they can be said to have "grown a set".
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #60
65. "Favor" is a demotion from "insist on"
This is what is bothering people.
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #60
69. suuuure they have
I wonder though -- this was just posted:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

a *million* times you say? :rofl:
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #32
39. Ahh, it's been reported huh?
Edited on Thu Sep-03-09 11:45 AM by tridim
It was also reported that Iraq had WMD's.

Why in the hell would you trust the MSM over what the Administration says? That's just nuts.
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deaniac21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #23
70. 70% is laughable. 70% of the people who don't have insurance?
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surrealAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
45. Despite the number of "news cycles" that have elapsed ...
... the health care debate is nowhere near over. Sure, we might not "win", but most of the country supports the idea of a public option. There is still hope.
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placton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
48. We WON the debate
with 78% of americans. But, silly us, we elected Mr. Obama. He begs to differ with us.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #48
59. Got a link for that assertion?
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
54. the people want it, the media wants a fight. i'll go with the people.
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grassfed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
66. No Public Option because hick bitch Palin will say mean things of facebook
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
67. How can you lose something you never had?
There was no debate, just what our politicians wanted us to talk about. No other voices were allowed equal access or equal voice in the issue to make their case.
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-03-09 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
71. We're going to get the biggest health reform bill ever passed by Obama. Kennedy and Clinton
never got anything near what Obama will get.
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