Yeah, Yeah, Yeah...

[Me.]

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Something is better than nothing. These things take time. You've got to give a little to get a little, progressives should sit down and shut up. Innuendo points to progressives being immature, unrealistic, unaware of how the real world works and radical. And so it goes.

Yet progressives seem to be the only ones who don't have a seat at the table. The people who don't want it at all have 3 big seats and they have been courted, catered to and wooed all the while they slow walk heath care to death. Transparency never made it's way to Cspan.

70% of Americans want a public option, the only voice they have is the one progressives are giving them. This is not the time for silence.

[OHdem10]

1. Thanks--important post.

corrected spelling

[H2O Man]

2. Right.

I understand when people in Washington talk about that inside the halls of Congress. But they are going to have to answer for their willingness to "compromise."

When you compromise on social justice, you are left with anti-spocial injustice. We will not compromise our values.

Recommended.

[Me.]

3. When Does Compromise End?

It has given us a war of choice, a devastated economy and hungry people living in tents...if they're lucky. We've been subjected to warmongers, killers, lunatics, liars and religocrats. All because many democrats haven't stood up and held their ground. They're supposed to speak for us and they have left us voiceless.

You've often said H20 that it's up to us. Health care proves it.

[H2O Man]

4. Yes, more than ever.

In a very real sense, the death of Senator Kennedy should make that fact clear for everyone on DU. And if a large number of DUers worked in a coordinated way, at the grass roots level, we could make a difference.

I was reading a book today, that a few DUers recommended to me. And one of the most important messages in the book is that All Things Are Possible. When good people work together, good things are possible. When good people fail to work together, bad things are inevitable.

[cleveramerican]

8. compromise ends when consensus is reached

[Me.]

10. The Consensus Of The American People

is that they want the public option and that should be the end of it.

[valerief]

5. Well said. nt

[cleveramerican]

6. aim high( very high)

and accept your very likely to get something less.

the harsh arithmetic of politics means nobody gets all of what they want.

[Me.]

9. How About Someone Else

getting less for a change? I figure it's their turn to be on the 'less' end of things.

And I know that it may come to pass that the beltway trivialists who so adore the status quo may kick all the good out of the bill but lets not aid and abet. And if they're going to sell us out let's not make it easy for them, a price must be paid.

[cleveramerican]

11. Us and Them are very fluid terms

"Us" tends to shrink.
"them" tends to expand.
everybody wants to be "us"
nobody wants to be "them"

if you(us) want more,
you(us)simply must convince a majority of them to see it your way.
then you(us)will get more,and
They(them) will get less.

Politics is confusing.

[Jim Sagle]

12. If yer so damn clever, why are you pulling in five bucks an hour as a DLC hogwash dispenser?

[cleveramerican]

13. if its so cut a dried why is getting it done such a shitstorm?

the hard cold fact is change is hard
people like it till it comes up close
then they back away
liberals, "progressives" or anybody else are a lot more conservative(assumes the safe position)than you seem to accept.

"progressives" haven't done a very good job of selling this line your selling here.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cleveramerican]

15. you are the only one who sees it clearly

and I'm the BS'er

good luck with all of that

[Jim Sagle]

18. No, just about ALL of us here at DU see it clearly. I'm sure it's different at other sites.

[cleveramerican]

19. here's the truth and it hurts so be ready

its too easy to blame "them"
its too easy to blame "the media"
its too easy to think everyone who's unconvinced is bought or stupid.


we haven't even fully convinced us.
thats why you are seeing what you are seeing.

your attitude is a big part of why that is.

[Jim Sagle]

20. My attitude isn't ANY part of it, and you goddamn well know it.

Any reliable poll says 60-70 % of Americans want Medicare for all. Public Option IS the compromise. Get that through your cranium.

[cleveramerican]

31. The irony is that we agree

we view the opposition differently.
I don't view my fellow democrats as bought or stupid
just not yet fully convinced.

for me thats a call to do a better job of convincing them.

for you its makes them(and me I'm sad to say) crooked or freeperish or some other nasty description.


for me "your just a freeper" is very similar to "you just hate america" republicans threw at me a short time ago.

[kctim]

21. The opinions and views of most on DU

do NOT represent the opinions and views of the majority of Americans.
It's easier to blame EVERYTHING else rather than acknowledge that fact.

[Jim Sagle]

22. On healthcare, the opinions and views of most on DU

DO represent the opinions and views of the majority of Americans. Every major poll shows that.

[Me.]

23. Yes They Do

Even if some on DU gave a problem acknowledging that fact

[kctim]

25. Polls also show that less than half of Americans

do not want to pay more for a so-called public option, so how do you decide which polls to listen to? The one's that support your position?
CleverAmerican is right, change is hard. If it wasn't, and the majority of Americans wanted a govt system, this wouldn't be so hard.
So keep telling yourselves that people are too dumb to think for themselves, its worked so well so far hasn't it.

[Me.]

26. We Don't Know That They Will Have To Pay More

First of all, the final plan hasn't made an appearance so we don't know that the details would include a cost increase. Secondly, the public option presents the public with a choice, which is the operative word here. They can stay with the plan they have if they so choose. And finally, as to rising rates...the cost of insurance has risen drastically since '04 and experts are saying that if things stay as they are, the American people will soon be paying a third of their income for HC.

[kctim]

27. We also do not know that we won't have to pay more

Contrary to the prevailing thought on here, the American people are not dumb, they are well aware that govt programs cost money and that the way govt gets its money to pay for them is through taxes. So, while we can try to act like we don't know if the final bill will include a cost increase, there is no guarantee that it will not. Again, CleverAmerican nails it by saying ""progressives" haven't done a very good job of selling this."

If the operative word is choice, then President Obama has to start explaining better to ALL of us. Right now, most people are under the assumption that they will have to pay for the govt plan and can also pay for a second, private plan, if they so choose. That in no way offers one a choice. IF that is not how it is, then President Obama himself must tell the people.

Yes the cost of health insurance has risen and 99% of the American people want reform, but that does not mean we all want a govt plan. If it did, the issue would be resolved and we would have single payer.

[Me.]

28. You Are Showing Your Hand

Most here don't think the American people are dumb. We leave that type of thinking to right wingers and the party that lied to Americans for 8 years. Scoot.

[kctim]

29. Yeah, I didn't think you would like facts

and kind of figured you would go for deflection to avoid answering. I was only hoping for intelligent discourse rather than the normal mindless cheerleading.
Free thinkers who dare question your opinion and don't fall in line as told must be "right wingers," right?
Yeah yeah yeah...

[Me.]

30. Fallacious Generalizations About DUers -

Have nothing in common with intelligent discourse.

[cleveramerican]

32. its not a very far leap to assume..

extending coverage to 40 million people will come at considerable cost.

I do think if its explained better the public at large will get behind it with more enthusiasm than they have thus far.


We still don't have anything to unify behind
That is currently the biggest obstacle.
Its a huge problem and its not going away.

[Me.]

16. Pish

Tosh

[Edweird]

7. Yes. To hell with those selling us out.

[autorank]

17. A GIANT K AND R - Public option, public rights, public benefits

It tells you how dirty the polls are when you see the positives for the public option.

They say a majority doubt the health plan but well over that favor a public option. Who
are they kidding?

Rock on!

[Me.]

24. You Are One Of My Favorite Public Options

[autorank]

33. Honored to be selected!