Mom Sues After Son With Autism Voted Out Of Kindergarten Class

[The Straight Story]

Mom Sues After Son With Autism Voted Out Of Kindergarten Class
By Michelle Diament
August 27, 2009

The mother of a boy with autism whose kindergarten classmates voted him out of class is now suing the boy’s school district and his former teacher.

In May 2008, 5-year old Alex Barton, who has autism, was voted out of his Port St. Lucie, Fla. kindergarten classroom by his fellow students after the boy exhibited behavior problems. The boy’s teacher, Wendy Portillo, proposed the vote and was suspended from teaching for one year without pay as a result of the incident.

But now Alex’s mom, Melissa Barton, has filed suit in federal court claiming that the incident caused her son emotional and mental distress and violated his civil rights. Further, the suit says Alex now has a poor self image and is often found alone repeatedly calling himself an “idiot” or “stupid.”

The lawsuit, which names Portillo, the St. Lucie County School Board and other school officials, seeks an undisclosed sum of money as compensation for the alleged harm, reports reports WPTV, the West Palm Beach, Fla. NBC affiliate.

http://www.disabilityscoop.com/2009/08/27/autism-vote-lawsuit/4771/

[roody]

1. Where did that teacher get training???

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. Seriously!

[SoCalDem]

3. Survivor Auditions? n/t

[Clintonista2]

143. LOL!

She's the next Jeff Probst!

[baldguy]

4. Does Liberty Univ have an education program?

[johnfunk]

69. Probably from the Barbara Bush School of Republican Compassion

:evilgrin:

[mmonk]

76. Michael Savage

[roguevalley]

93. box tops. I would kick her sorry ass. I would refuse, as the rights

person, to defend her. This makes me furious.

rv, 27 years a teacher, old school.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

102. Probably the television show Survivor.

[Common Sense Party]

137. The kids should vote the teacher out.

What is WRONG with our schools today that a teacher would even think of such a "solution"?

[TahitiNut]

5. Wendy Portillo should NEVER be trusted with the welfare and development of young children.

Appalling. :puke:

It's not a question of "training" ... it's a question of basic humanity.

[CoffeeCat]

10. It's surreal...

...any kindergarten teacher understands that developmentally, five and six-year olds have a long way to go. There
are still so young--just out of the toddler stages.

They barely have any attention span, and they're just starting to learn about following rules and how to behave in formal settings.
After all, this is their first year of full-time school!

There has to be a lot of understanding and compassion to teach children this age. What gets me is that this teacher seems to
lack those things--and in addition, is a hurtful, spiteful, ignorant jerk.

Like you said, this person should not be near children. Suspending her for one year is a joke.

[liberalhistorian]

13. And for autistic and Asperger's children it's even worse,

they perseverate on these things and it's even harder for them to deal with. That was one of the first clues regarding my aspie son when he was that age, that, even though he was and is extremely intelligent, he was like that.

[JCMach1]

94. My aspie daughter still sticks on the bullying she received in 3rd and 4th grade

even though she is now in 9th and left the school that was the problem... she has major trust issues with boys because of this.

[Odin2005]

150. I have trouble socializing with other guys and prefer the company of women because of bullying.

The girls in my class were some of the few people that stood up for me.

[PassingFair]

22. My oldest daughter was "voted" off the playground in third grade...

back when Survivor was popular.

She was the first kid voted off.

I went ballistic when I heard about it,
and went to the Principal, who had no
idea that this cute "game" was going on.

To his credit, he arranged for her to
work with the kindergarten kids during
lunch instead of having to deal with the
witches and trolls on the playground.

[TahitiNut]

23. Any one of us subjected to the cruelty of other kids, especially facilitated by an adult, ...

... remember it for the rest of our lives. The emotional trauma of some of the more egregious of these events are very difficult to overcome.

The idea that "The Lord Of The Flies" is some 'how-to' manual appalls me.

[PassingFair]

28. That "teacher" shouldn't be allowed anywhere NEAR kids...

let alone be in charge.

Jeez.

[Odin2005]

71. I have PTSD from that crap.

It's unforgivable. I have trouble holding down a job because of of the psychological damage from such crap.

[Chemisse]

33. It's not surprising that kids would do such a thing

But to have an adult involved in it is just despicable.

[janx]

32. We agree again!

It's a question of ethics! You don't have to have "educational training" to know how to treat fellow human beings and how to connect with them.

[CoffeeCat]

6. A kindergarten teacher did that?

There are no words.

I hope mother and son recoup truckloads of money from the school district that employed that monster (and only suspended
her for a year) and also from the individuals involved.

There are some really sick people in the world. It's a shame that one of them decided to teach kindergarten. Unreal.

[WillyT]

8. Yep... There Are No Words...

:banghead:

[TexasObserver]

7. Recommend

[sandnsea]

9. A parent would be charged with mental abuse

and have to go to court and adhere to whatever rehabilitative regiment they ordered.

Good the teacher got suspended, but it doesn't begin to address what she did.

And teachers wonder why parents don't just send junior to school and never question their superior wisdom.

The teacher who held up dresses to check for thongs, the teacher who brought puppies to disect in science class, the numerous teachers who write on kids' heads, no this is not an isolated incident.

[John Q. Citizen]

Yes, millions of teachers nationwide and you give three widely reported incidences to condemn them

all.

Classy!

[vadawg]

19. welcome to the wonderful world of DU, try being a cop, all you get is negative on DU

i know if i died today on a traffic stop or warrant service, people on DU would be celebrating that another pig died serving the fascist overlords...

[John Q. Citizen]

34. Yeah, our country has a big problem with the way law enforcement is run.

So it leads to a lot of unnecessary friction.

It's bad for cops and it's bad for citizens.

[janx]

40. Hey, that's not true.

I like and respect cops very much, with only one exception.

[Chemisse]

42. I don't think that is true

Although discussions I have seen in my months here might lead one to believe that.

[Orrex]

52. Shouldn't you be out tasering somebody?

Last I heard, every cop in the land is a corrupt, racist, donut-munching power-tripping agent of the patriarchy.


Don't tell me that the DU zeitgeist is wrong?!?

[vadawg]

53. nah not today, too busy working a malicious wounding case

joy oh joy, though i will get some doughnuts later and mayby get the chance to taze some wildlife...

[Orrex]

54. This thread is useless without pics

If you taze some wildlife, make sure it's the cute, fluffy kind. Nobody cares if you taze an alligator.

[vadawg]

58. trust me the pics of stumpy as we are now affectionally calling him after the machete attack

are not for public viewing, though they should be, mayby kids will get teh message if they see this kinda shit..

[SmileyRose]

80. LOL

[renate]

68. I don't understand that way of thinking... cops put their lives on the line for us

I know there have been many well-publicized cases of bad apples in the barrel, and of course a betrayal of the public trust is a terrible thing when people we ought to trust abuse that power, but cops will run into a dangerous situation when everybody else is running out. What would your honest guess be of the percentage of cops that are truly dedicated to the public good? I don't want to be naive but I would guess upwards of 98%. And that percentage of cops, whatever the actual number is, are willing to risk and even give their lives to protect the rest of us. I don't understand the criticism of a profession that, by and large, keeps us safe and would make the ultimate sacrifice to do so.

:hug:

[Ignis]

120. That's because authority carries with it responsibility.

And we should hold those in authority to a higher standard. That's how the social contract works, and citizens are absolutely fucking right to be angry when LEOs abuse their authority by tazing the elderly, the infirm, those in wheelchairs, those who are already handcuffed, etc.

But don't let reason get in the way of a good "poor, persecuted me" whine. :hi:

[proud2BlibKansan]

92. Amen

This happened over a year ago. Why rehash it all now?

[liberalhistorian]

24. I'm sorry, but my parents spent their working lives as teachers,

and were as far from doing things like that as anyone could get, as were most of their colleagues wherever they taught, as were most of my teachers. And they would have been, and often were, the first to report and condemn any of their fellow teachers who did such things. Yes, there are bad apples in the profession, (and I had some of them, having a severe learning disability that some teachers just made no effort to understand), just like in any other, and you cannot broadbrush them all. My parents gave their working lives to teaching and improving the lives of youngsters, all for little compensation and even less appreciation. You can't paint with a broad brush like that.

[Chemisse]

41. Are you kidding?

This is a very isolated incident!

I have been a teacher for 14 years and have never seen or heard of a teacher behaving like any of your examples.

I guess it's human nature to take a few facts about individuals then generalize them to a group (racism ring a bell?), but I think we at DU need to try and rise above that.

[rucky]

101. Most teachers don't want parents to be unquestioning.

They want parents to get more involved.

[imdjh]

11. Here's a news version of the story.

It's reads a little differently.

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2008/may/24/30gtteacher-lets-students-vote-out-classmate-5/

[CoffeeCat]

14. What do you mean it reads differently?

I read the article, and that teacher's behavior is even more disgusting than ever.

No child deserves to be abused in school like that.

This teacher's behavior was appalling.

[Robb]

15. Agreed on those points.

Here's what jumped out:

"By a 14 to 2 margin, the students voted Alex — who is in the process of being diagnosed with autism — out of the class."

This does not excuse the teacher. It is merely a different story. I agree with you 100%.

[imdjh]

20. For starters, he hasn't been diagnosed with autism.

There is a difference between writing that a child with established autism is a behavior problem (in which case no teacher in her right mind would have disciplined him in this fashion) and writing that a child with behavior problems is being examined for autism.

[liberalhistorian]

29. No teacher in her right mind? REALLY? That's absolute nonsense

and I can tick off several examples just off the top of my head. In fact, there are some teachers who seem to have a special bee in their bonnet for any child who's "different", no matter the reason. Been there, done that, in both my own school years and my son's. Fortunately, my parents are also teachers and were advocates for both my son and I.

And as far as "being in the process" of being diagnosed, he's already had IEP meetings THAT THE TEACHER ATTENDED and it's pretty much clear that that's what his "issue" is.

[imdjh]

31. IEP probably doesn't mean the same thing in Florida as it does where you live.

Every child in Florida theoretically has an IEP starting not too long ago, as part of the FCAT and NCLB thing. It's killing teachers.

[liberalhistorian]

39. Yeah, it's really too bad that all kids just aren't exactly

alike and do things all exactly the same way.

My teacher parents and I call those the "Flowers are Red" teachers from Harry Chapin's song Flowers are Red. Look it up and learn something.

[imdjh]

60. What's your diagnosis?

[gatorboy]

154. For you?

Off the deep end.

[MissMarple]

43. Diagnosis is irrelevant. That should happen to no child. As I'm sure you agree.

I'm aghast at the stupidity and callousness. There really is no excusing it. :nuke:

And where are the other parents in this? The other children in the class are victims, as well. If my child was exposed to such cruelty I would be irate.

[Orrex]

65. While you're correct, I don't think it's relevant.

The fact that the teacher subjected the child to is pretty horrible.


One thing puzzles me, though:

Barton said her son is in the process of being diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome...

What does that mean, exactly? That phrasing--in particular the use of the word "diagnosed"--suggests that they've already concluded that he has Asperger's. That's like saying "we've already discovered 2/3 of the world's oil," which implies that we know how much oil there is and can therefore assess how much we've discovered so far.

It seems to me that a better phrasing would be "her son is in the process of being evaluated to determine whether has Asperger's syndrome."


Maybe it's not a big deal, but the phrasing bothered me.

[CoffeeCat]

78. i agree that there is a distinction...

...between a child that has been officially diagnosed with autism and a child who is being evaluated for probable autism.

Understood.

However, it's the teachers deplorable behavior that is in question here. She had the child voted out class. I wouldn't
care if this was a special-needs child or her star student. You don't haul a student in front of the class, shame them,
have all of the students verbalize what they hate about that student and then take a vote that results in the student
being humiliated and kicked out of class.

That is shameful behavior from a teacher that should have never happened---to any student.

[imdjh]

79. I've been hauled in front of a class and paddled.

At first I thought it was a terrible injustice and I was very upset. Then another student pointed out to me the efficiency of the form of punishment. When you don't get paddled, then the teacher carries a grudge or writes something in your permanent record file. When you get paddled, it's two whacks or six (whatever the infraction warrants) and then it's over. I came to respect paddling, especially considering my teacher the year before was a Unitarian peacenik who would never have dreamed of paddling a kid, but who was a vindictive bitch who _did_ go back and change grades downward in retribution.

Give me the honest path any day. And let's not pretend that all this allegedly enlightened way of dealing with children is necessarily more noble and superior to the old ways. It isn't. A lot of it is manipulative. I deal with younger people all the time that I basically have to break of manipulation and handling. There are young people that I actually have to sit down and say, "OK , we need to get something clear. You can say anything you want to me, really you can. You don't have to butter me up, play nice in hopes I will agree with you, or anything like that. DON'T HANDLE ME. " The look of shock is generally priceless. I don't know who is teaching these people to be this way, but it's not sophisticated or charming, it's almost slimy.

[CoffeeCat]

81. Sounds like you've been surrounded by shitty teachers.

First off, the notion that a teacher would physically abuse and hurt a student is SICK. Doing it in front of the
class is even more inhumane, and it's wrong. So, you had a crappy teacher who hit their students.

Onto the second bad teacher, "the unitarian peacnik' that you described. This one sounds like a complete psycho who graded based on her need to retaliate against students who misbehaved.

I'm sorry you had shitty teachers. I'm sorry that you learned from one horrible teacher that if you aren't punished--you'll get
grades docked out of revenge.

It's too bad you learned such twisted logic---from teachers of all people.

However, let's not take too many lessons from these inhumane people. Let's not glean too much insight about life and learning--from
monsters. Let's just call their debased, shameful behavior what it is---SHAMEFUL.

Your teachers were wrong--and so is this piece of work who had the class vote out a student.

Cruelty comes in so many forms. Let's learn from these horrible examples and fight to stop this so we can protect children and
get the bad teachers out of our schools.

The majority of teachers are wise, caring, empathetic and patient. There is not a bad teacher at my child's elementary school.
I've loved them all, and have had great relationships with each one. Every teacher I know would decry the injustice that
has happened to this student who was voted out of class.

[imdjh]

84. I don't think that paddling is monstrous.

And I'm not likely to change my position on that. I think it's a very honest form of punishment and one which is very clear and easy to understand. Moreover as many people who remember being children are likely to tell you, there are times when a child wishes a teacher or parental figure would just shut the hell up, and that a paddling would be better.

Of course, there are actual monsters out there. Those would be the ones who paddle AND won't shut up AND carry a grudge. Those are the horrors.

I see parents all the time who think they are being evolved with their kids, and they really aren't. Punishing Johnny by saying that he can't go to the dance on Saturday night, is not more evolved than paddling his stupid little ass for going to the beach without permission or not doing his homework. First off, it's dragging out something which could be settled immediately. Secondly, it's teaching him that commitments aren't integrity issues.

[tblue37]

105. It's worse than just having the child voted out of class.

She also had Alex stand in front of the class while each child told what they didn't like about him.

In other words, the humiliation of being voted out of class is just a culmination of even worse humiliation of being forced to stand there and listen while each member of the class was encouraged to say nasty things about him. Also, that is certainly not a positive activity for the other children, to be told gang up on one child and pile on with the badmouthing.

[Recursion]

113. Hmm

What if he's not autistic, and just an asshole? There are a lot of kids I went to school with that I wish the teacher had forced to listen to the ways they were pissing us off.

[tblue37]

124. He is 5 years old. Even a misbehaving child at that age needs to

be handled more humanely than that. I was a pretty strict mother and daycare provider, and I have also always been strict with my college students, but you can be strict and require good behavior without being emotionally abusive.

BTW, one child I took care of had Asperger's and was, at first, rather difficult to handle. But he soon responded to my techniques. He is 13 now, and an absolute delight. His parents told me after his first week with me (when he was 8) that they had never seen him so happy in his life. He had been kicked out of daycares and had been refused by babysitters, but I found him no problem at all to deal with. It's how you handle them that makes the difference!

[liberalhistorian]

17. And how does it "read differently"? That teacher should

never, ever have even proposed such a vote, let alone allow it. Especially after attending IEP meetings with admins and specialists and knowing the problem the kid had. As a mother of an aspie son, you'd better believe that teacher would be sued from here to kingdom come if she'd done that to my son. Period. There is NO EXCUSE. And she should never teach again, no matter what age. My mother, as a long-time and now-retired teacher, not only was truly appalled but totally agrees. My stepdad, also a retired teacher, would have agreed as well, but is now in a nursing home with dementia.

[vadawg]

18. kinda wondering how far a class should go if there is a disruptive force in the class

not sure how it works here, but do people in general believe that even disruptive kids no matter the cause should be in the same class as so called normal kids or is it better to educate seperately.

[WillyT]

21. It's Called Mainstreaming, And It's The Law !!!

<snip>

What the Law Requires of Your School District

If you live in the United States, the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA) requires that your district provide the "Least Restrictive Environment" for your child's education. That means that they must consider such options as mainstreaming before deciding (with your involvement) on a more specialized setting.

You may, of course, decide that your child is better off in a specialized setting -- but if you decide to work with public schools, you may have to prove that the mainstream setting is NOT working before seeking funding for a private or specialized setting.

<snip>

Link: http://autism.about.com/od/schoolandsummer/a/edoptionshub.htm

:shrug:

[vadawg]

25. okay but once again what if you decide to keep mainstreaming your child but

they are being so disruptive that the other children are suffering, is their any recource if you are adamant that your child stay in the mainstream class or can the school do what they deem best for the other students.

[liberalhistorian]

30. I don't know. Take them out and repeatedly

taser them, maybe? That oughta show the little devil's spawn, not being "normal" like the rest of us. :eyes:

[vadawg]

35. yeah great answer, once again whats your opinion on how far the so called normal part of the class

suffers before someone who is disruptive is moved to a different setting, or does the other kids in the class not matter, i think everyone has a story of someone during their education who ruined a class for them, but if they ruin the class for everyone how fair is that for the rest of the class...

[imdjh]

62. Doesn't have one.

It doesn't have the same effect.

Probably doesn't have an answer for the point at which a rational person says, "Wait a minute, aren't there an awful lot of kids being diagnosed with this or that?"

Same bunch of folks who called us all monsters when we objected to diagnosing every boy ADHD and medicating him, basically for being a boy. Isn't it interesting how suddenly girls started getting diagnosed and medicated? People are that vested in being right, that they will poison children rather than admit to the possibility of being wrong.

[WillyT]

38. I Guess That Would Depend On How Severe The Disruptions...

As a former teacher, let me assure you that there were plenty of non-autistic students in my classroom that were disruptive, and they weren't going anywhere.

So what's the diff?

:shrug:

[vadawg]

47. no difference to me, and probuably no differnce to the other kids in the class

but when does the good of the majority of the students out weigh the needs of one disruptive child, and i mean no matter the cause...

[WillyT]

49. Well... Hopefully You Reach Some Sort Of Concensus...

with all parties concerned as to what's best for everyone involved.

Sometimes it's just enough to inform the other parents as to the situation. Sometimes you provide resources for the family of the special needs student. And if the disability is too profound for a regular classroom, you make the necessary changes.

BUT... you'd better make sure that the autistic kid is way more disruptive than your most disruptive "normal" kid, because anything else would be considered discrimination under the law.

:shrug:

[vadawg]

51. seems then the law is discriminatory, if it protects an autistic child more than another child

i look at it as not who the kid is who is disturbing the class but at what level are they disturbing the class. Its unfair on the so called normal kids in the class if their education is being disturbed due to any child who upsets the class...

[WillyT]

56. That's Called A Normal Classroom...

EVERY classroom has one or three kids that disrupt the class.

That's why they invented detention. That's why they invented Parent\Teacher conferences. That's why they invented expulsion.

If you tried to get rid of every kid who disrupts a classroom, you'd certainly cut down on class size, but you'd better think about what you are going to do with those kids you drop.

And you'd better plan on spending money on an alarm system for your house.

BTW - You aren't perchance talking about "reverse discrimination" are you?

You know... those poor down trodden "normal" kids having their rights abused by the powerful disabled block.

:shrug:

[vadawg]

57. very witty i am sure, what im talking about is how bad does the disruption have to be before a kid

any kid is removed from the class, this was brought on by the discussion, and my wondering if a kid with a disability or learning issues can be removed from the class, you can look at it any way you want but again i was wondering if the so called normal kids have to just like it or lump it or does it ever get the level were the kid with the issues is removed from the class... as to having an alarm system for my house why would i need that i have guard dogs and a 12 gauge...

[WillyT]

61. Dude... There's No Precise Way to Know...

There is no magical formula. Like I said before, you have to get the "aggrieved" parties together and try to find a consensus for a solution.

But if I was king of the world, and determined that the parents did not give one damn about the autistic kid, and seemed to be put upon and creeped out by the disabled kid, I'd say tough shit, deal with it.

OTOH - If the autistic child has been placed in a classroom that was obviously inappropriate for their level of abilities, then yeah we'd have to pull the kid and find a place more suitable for the child.

But there is no mathematical equation that gets you there. You have to get agreement around the horn, or... you have to take it to court and take your chances.

:shrug:

[Progressive_In_NC]

89. My wife had kids who were BEH who told her flat out they knew they couldn't be expelled

This was middle school, and she had 4-5 BEH (beahvoirly and emotionally handicapped) kids who raised high-holy-heck in her classroom before she left to stay home with our kids. One stabbed another one with a pencil in his hand, and when she sent him to the principals office, the kid turned around and said, I'll be back, I'm BEH B***H, you can't do nothing to me.

Now my son finished Kindergarten with three Autistic Children in his class of 54 (team taught by 3 teachers). He only had minor incidents and really enjoyed two of the kids in his classroom when they sat together and talked (non were severely autistic obviously).

[treestar]

152. A school principal once told me

That is you did get rid of those 1-3 kids somehow, another 1-3 kids would start acting up and being the disruptors.

[lumberjack_jeff]

157. "so-called normal"

you're the only one in this thread calling it "so".

If you want to describe the children in the class who don't have developmental disabilities, the right term is "neurotypical".

Everyone in the class has a right to an education. No one's right transcends anothers.

[LeftishBrit]

112. Even if and when it does...

you take some sort of official action to remove the child from the class or to get extra classroom support for them, etc. - but you do NOT get the other kids to vote about it. And especially you do not tell them to say all the things they don't like about the child. That is not on;y cruel to the child in question; it is training the other children to be cruel.

[imkindofabigdeal]

140. The difference is that autistic or other SPED students

have more need for one-on-one interraction with teacher. And in a mainstream classroom, that is impossible, especially nowadays with close to 30 kids in a class sometimes!

One of the major problems is that it isn't until kids are in 2nd grade or older that a school district is mandated to test kids (who don't fall into the obvious SPED category like Down's, etc.). It's a money thing and parents sometimes really have to fight on their kids' behalf.

[lumberjack_jeff]

156. It's not impossible, just inconvenient.

The child with a disability has a right to a free and appropriate public education in the least restrictive environment. A general ed classroom is the least restrictive environment for most kids, and school districts *can* put additional classroom supports in place to enable it.

[marshall]

121. That happened in the school I used to teach at

One child was a constant worry and threat to teachers and students. He bit and hit and disrupted class. Because of his diagnosis he had to be mainstreamed, and at times when teachers had him on the other side of the room from the other children (who were afraid of him) the father intruded into the classroom and created a scene.

Through the years the school district seemed paraylyzed as to what to do. Teachers transferred back and forth between campuses to avoid him. Any effort to discipline him for fighting was fought tooth and nail by the parents. The administration seemed conviced that the district would be sued unless they gave in to him.

Finally at the end of his junior year he stabbed a boy in the bathroom who was a foster child and thus a ward of the state. The state stepped in and demanded that he be homebound with lessons sent to him. This after years and years of biting and hurting other students and teachers. I recall that the art teacher especially was afraid of him because her room had so many scissors and knives. He was always placed in the middle of the room with the biggest boys sitting around him as a first line of defense in case he went over the edge.

Even though the parents, as it turned out, had a lock on their bedroom door and locked themselves away from him when he had a violent tantrum as a teenager, they would not allow him to be isolated in school. They demanded he be mainstreamed into the presence of the other students.

Three years after graduation he shot and killed a city code compliance officer. He is now on Texas death row.

[imdjh]

26. Yes

Perhaps not all, but easily found is the parent who doesn't give a shit about the rest of the class or the teacher or anyone except that their child be shuffled gently through the public schools and be given a normal academic diploma at the end of 12 years.

I have known one parent of an autistic child who was completely different from any other I have met. She was not about denial or mainstreaming, she was about working with her kid to be what he could be. He turned out beautifully, and unless someone had told me, I would never know there was anything wrong with him. And no, he was not a "light case" or something like that. He was a classic full blown autistic, head knocking, rocking autistic. But the school didn't do it, mom did. She basically put everything else on hold and took personal responsibility for every waking moment with this child. She's not a saint, but she's a damned dedicated person.

[Strong Atheist]

44. As a special education teacher, I can say that there are procedures to follow

in removing disruptive students to a more restrictive environment; and believe me, the schools systems that are on the ball (like mine) are very careful about that...

[imdjh]

63. No politics involved in discipline there?

I was reading about one school system which was actually ordered to bring their suspension stats into statewide demographic compliance.

[Strong Atheist]

96. ROFLMAO!!!!!!!

Schools are nothing BUT politics. Politics between: teachers, students, parents, admins, higher admins in every possible combination therein.


You have NO freaking idea... (not a slam, just a bitter observation)...


ROFLMAO (in a bitter way)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Chemisse]

45. It really is a problem when one kid disrupts the whole class repeatedly

Sometimes the classroom is not the least restrictive environment for kids with severe issues.

Not that there is EVER an excuse to vote a kid out of the class.

[DarbyUSMC]

55. We had a disruptive boy in first grade. He had failed first grade twice and when

we went on to second grade, he was still in first grade. I don't know if he was ever diagnosed with anything. I don't know what you do about such a disruptive force in the classroom. What is fair for the majority when, everyday, the kids come home from school, not telling Mom and Dad about what they may have learned but reporting what "Charles" had done that day? (They may have the battle scars to go with the account.) So what to do? Obviously not what this teacher did, but what?

Charles finally made it to ninth grade and quit school. He never had a job. He pretended to "run" the bar/hotel that his mother and uncle managed. (His father had died a couple of years after giving seven year old Charles a horse.) He lived off of his mother and she didn't have much, just squeaking by and finally closing the business. Charles married and had five children. His wife was a teacher. How she was attracted to him, no one has ever understood. The wife and children left after being hit and kicked for too many years when they didn't please Charles.

I couldn't get away from Charles. He lived on my street and walked to school on the same route. One day he slapped my face because I picked up a pencil a new girl dropped (he wanted to pick it up.) My cousin convinced him that was the last time he'd ever hit me or anyone else while he was around or even when he wasn't around.

Could anyone ever have reached him? Were the kids who tried to get away from him doomed to be the outlet for his rage?

Times are different now but little kids deserve a half-way decent chance to learn. What should have been done with Charles?

He's dead now. He died alone and in his own misery.

[cap]

82. it's possible that Charles might have some sort of sensory processing disorder

eom

[LWolf]

109. How it works "here"

is not the same as how it works in the real world, of course.

In the real world, an autistic child, when diagnosed, has an IEP that, among other things, places him in the "least restrictive environment." That means in a regular class for as much time as possible while serving his needs.

Disruptive children, regardless of the sources of their disruptions, are not given more restricted placements without time, observation, and every intervention resources at the school can provide. Long-term removal from a regular classroom requires a set of lengthy procedures.

What kinds of resources are available at a school site, within a district or county, all depends on funding and focus. Some places will run out of options sooner than others.

That said, autistic children, in many cases, do not automatically need a different placement. They need support in functioning in the regular classroom.

I've taught for decades, across 2 states, 1100 miles, small and large schools and districts. That kind of abuse would not have been tolerated anywhere that I've worked.

[MissMarple]

37. It sounds like the state attorney's office is remiss, as well. Where do they find these people?

"Melissa Barton filed a complaint with Morningside's school resource officer, who investigated the matter, Port St. Lucie Department spokeswoman Michelle Steele said. But the state attorney's office concluded the matter did not meet the criteria for emotional child abuse, so no criminal charges will be filed, Steele said.

Port St. Lucie Police no longer are investigating, but police officials are documenting the complaint, she said."

[imdjh]

64. Oh please.

She didn't hurt the kid. She employed a fairly standard technique (group control) for teaching young children that their actions affect other people. That's all.

[liberalhistorian]

83. Holy shit, and you're actually a freaking teacher?

That's a damned scary thought that you have anything to do with kids if you think that what that teacher did was in ANY way acceptable even for a non-disabled child. Jesus Christ. You obviously have NO idea what effect that bullshit has on children. And how about teaching the other young children that you don't humiliate others because they're "different", that that is beyond cruel? Good God, it's a good thing you were never one of my son's teachers, because then you would never have taught again. I'd have made damned sure of it. You do NOT treat children that way, period. Especially at that age.

[WillyT]

85. Yes, You See... Since The Teacher In The OP Did Not Beat, Taze, Or Waterboard The Student...

No harm came to the child.

Group humiliation on the other hand, since it involves no physicality, is just good old standard operating procedures...

For teachers that taught 30, 40, or 50 years ago or more.

You take away their corporal punishment, you see, and you have to leave them with some way to destroy the child's psyche. Some way to show them who's boss!

Fucking :puke:

Some people should NEVER be allowed into a classroom.

[liberalhistorian]

86. Amen to that! I'm just in disbelief here that she could

even think that that is, in any way, acceptable or non-harmful to the child. Hell, it's extremely harmful to non-disabled children, let alone those on the autistic spectrum or many other conditions. I almost never put people here on ignore, don't believe in it, but I just might make an exception with this one. And children have got to learn to accept those who may think, perceive or act a bit "differently" from them. Children can be naturally cruel to the "different" and it's up to the adults around them to teach them otherwise, not to help them in their cruelty and demands that all act and think alike.

[TrogL]

128. You obviously haven't been around socializer teachers

Yes, I taught for three years then gave it up when I realized that I was do damn good at it, would never fit in and heeded the siren call of computers and changed occupations for the better.

There are some teachers for whom correct socialization is the be-all and end-all of education, subject matter be damned. They'll use every social trick in the book, especially downright bullying as in this case, to make students toe the line and turn into little please-everybody robots.

[lumberjack_jeff]

158. No. A "so called" teacher. n/t

[LeftishBrit]

136. And for teaching the children how to be bullies.

Look, this sort of 'group control' is NOT standard school practice, at least in British schools - and I doubt that it is anywhere else. Individual teachers can be bullies, influenced by nutty ideas, or just unsuited to work with children, of course - just like people in other professions; but a teacher who acted like this, especially with primary school children, would certainly not be engaging in approved or typical practice. A teacher MIGHT encourage a group discussion about why a particular form of behaviour is in general undesirable; or might organize a discussion between two children who had been fighting - but they would not encourage an entire group of children to 'say what they don't like about another child's behaviour' or to vote him out of the classroom.

[Hepburn]

138. I taught Continuation HS before I went to law school and....

...I got the classroom monsters that teachers like you created before they got to me.

They may have been bad to begin with, but humiliation and snark from people like you sure made them worse.

[NashVegas]

146. And the Teacher's and Other Students' Versions of Events

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2008/may/29/police-report-reveals-teachers-side-incident-which/

Morningside Elementary kindergarten teacher Wendy Portillo told police she wanted 5-year-old Alex Barton to hear how his behavior was affecting his classmates, according to a report released Thursday by the Port St. Lucie Police Department.

After students shared their view, she had them vote, but she said the vote was only to keep him out of class for the day, not for good.

“Portillo said she did this as she felt that if (Alex) heard from his classmates how his behavior affected them that it would make a bigger difference to him, rather than just hearing it from adults,” according to the report.
...
Alex was in the process of being tested for Asperger’s Syndrome, a type of high-functioning autism, at the time of the incident. Barton said a private psychologist officially diagnosed him Tuesday with an autism-spectrum disorder and Attention Deficit Disorder.

More at the link. The teacher's actions were inappropriate, but somehow I think having to rely on friends to help you buy food while you sit out on unpaid suspension is punishment enough.

It's a shame these little terrors are allowed to control classrooms. At some point I fully expect to see parents who yank their kids out of public schools, in order to not have to put up with this, start suing the parents of the alleged ASD kids.

[liberalhistorian]

12. My son has Asperger's Syndrome and I would have done

the same damned thing, believe me. In fact, I would have done a lot worse. I've had to be his advocate throughout his school years (he just started his senior year) and have been very fortunate that he's in a district that generally cares and has quality. caring teachers and admins. But there were a few over the years who just didn't get it and had no interest in getting it and who would actually escalate situations despite being directly advised on how not to do that and KNOWING not to do it. Pissed me off to no end.

[janx]

27. It's amazing that any teacher wouldn't "get it."

I teach college writing and have had at least two (I suspect) students with Asperger's. These students were so committed --they knew they had to work harder to achieve the desired results, and work they did. They were very well liked and respected by their classmates--but then I'm not teaching grade school and my students tend to be very bright, Asperger's or no.

I admire you as a parent, because your son will no doubt be like the Asperger's students I taught.

[liberalhistorian]

36. I sure hope so. He's very bright, but it's often a struggle

getting him to do work he doesn't want to do. The flip side of that is that, when it's something he's interested in and wants to do, he can really FOCUS for hours at a time. It's been quite difficult at times, and, as a single parent, I thank God for my teacher parents and their invaluable help and assistance. He's actually a fascinating, wonderful young man with a very interesting "think outside the box" perspective, he often stumps his own teachers with questions they didn't even think of. I really wouldn't have him any other way, as difficult as it's been.

His own father and stepmother had limited involvement because they refused to listen as to how to understand AS and how to best handle him and would deliberately cause problems. They thought yelling, screaming and spanking were the only things to do, which only causes a lot more problems with these kids. They were free to do that with their own son, but they sure as fuck weren't gonna do it with mine, especially if they weren't gonna even learn about AS or listen about how best to treat it and what worked in handling him.

[janx]

46. When I have students in my classes with disabilities, I'm not told

what the disability is; I'm only told what will benefit the student in terms of class time, tests, etc. I noticed two students in the past couple of years who behaved in somewhat the same way, and that's when I suspected that they were both Aspies; our faculty at one point included a woman whose sister was studying Aspie students, and the faculty member became interested in this as a result.

I don't have a degree in education. I teach at a university. But I did notice some similarities in these two students, and I liked both of them. Your description matches what I saw. The focus is amazing. The only difference I found between these two students was that one would smile and the other would not, but it didn't mean that the second one wasn't enjoying himself. These two students had to get everything right. They had to know they were getting it right; it was a matter of safety to them. A teacher doesn't need psych courses and colored pencils to figure that out.

These two students did not see the world as others saw it, but I was comfortable with that, because in another way, I don't either. So I recognized it and could appreciate it.

Why couldn't this grade school teacher recognize it, and why don't some of the teachers you have dealt with recognize it?

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[chrisa]

48. Teachers and students can both be bullies.

And bullies usually go after those they perceive as weak - eg. Those who are mentally disabled, or physically disabled. Sounds like this teacher has alot of issues.

[Liberal_in_LA]

50. who allows kids to 'vote' out another kid. stupid

[lpbk2713]

59. St Lucie County Schools website.

At the bottom of the first page see "Click to ask the Superintendent a question".

Link: http://www.stlucie.k12.fl.us/index.aspx


"Mr Superintendent, does your school system have an anti-bullying program? And are your teachers exempt from adhering to it?"

[AngryAmish]

66. Florida, again.

[imdjh]

67. Yeah, totally unlike Amish meth dealers, Amish kids getting shot for throwing tomatoes,...

... and that dreadful incident when the cop was living with that Amish family and the thugs started shooting up the barn all because the little kid witnessed a murder?

[JVS]

104. Was that cop played by Harrison Ford?

[gatorboy]

151. You do realize that last one is a movie, right?

:rofl:

[sakabatou]

73. There's a game on, I think, the Adam Corolla show

"Florida or Germany." They gave a piece of news and the audience would call in and guess if it was from Florida or Germany.

[sasquatch]

99. I was about to post the same thing

[Odin2005]

70. I have Asperger's (High Functioning Autism) and I think this is beyond the pale!!!

Poor kid, how traumatizing. :cry:

[sakabatou]

74. Yeah, this is high on the "WTF?!" scale.

[FourScore]

87. It's unconscionable.

[brettdale]

72. That teacher is beyond being an idiot

What she did was cruel and inhuman. She has bigger mental issues than just being a dumbass.

[mmonk]

75. .

[zoff]

77. YES! Sue the living crap out of them!

Make sure that that teacher works everyday in her life to pay the woman back. And attach any inheritances as well. Question is, how soon was the teacher suspended? And what did the Board do to rectify the situation? That would probably determine how much in damages they would pay.

[imdjh]

98. Them? You mean the taxpayers?

[LeftishBrit]

139. As a taxpayer...

I'd be happy to pay a bit more in my taxes, just to help to ensure that this sort of thing *doesn't* happen to kids.

Kids generally grow up better if they are neither bullied (like this boy) nor trained to be bullies (like his classmates), so I might end up saving a bit on taxes going to the criminal justice system.

[earth mom]

88. This kind of bullshit is what I hate about the school system in this country!

:grr:

There are a ton of vile sociopathic assholes in our schools-both young and old.

And people wonder why some parents choose to homeschool!

[Odin2005]

90. Yep, If I ever have kids, they ARE getting homeschooled.

Our public school system is broken beyond redemption.

[moriah]

116. My mother wished she'd homeschooled me sooner.

I certainly didn't have Asperger's, but I was a target for bullies and it continued to get worse as elementary school went on.

In 4th grade alone I had two concussions, a shattered left arm, and so many pairs of glasses broken I can't remember the exact count.

After the abuse migrated to the classroom in 7th grade (instigated by the bitch who broke my fucking arm, pardon my vituperation) and the vice-principal suggested I pray to God to give me the strength to put up with it, Mom homeschooled me for two years. I did four years worth of work in that time.

[proud2BlibKansan]

95. "a ton of vile sociopathic assholes"??

Dramatic much?

[earth mom]

131. Says you-a teacher who complains about the kids she teaches at her school.

In Denial Much? :eyes:

[imdjh]

97. Aren't British and European private schools the literary standard for abusive faculty and students?

[KamaAina]

91. If that had been me, there'd be one less post in this thread.

'Cause I would have never gotten an education, much less gone on to Yale, and would presently be languishing in a group home and/or day program. :grr: :banghead: :argh: :nuke:

[sasquatch]

100. Poor kid, I hope this doesn't scar him for life

[DFW]

103. Scary stuff, no matter how rare (if it is rare)

My children were born and raised in Germany (until ages 16 and 19). Both now live in America, but the
younger one (now 24) says that when she has children, she will have and raise them back in Europe.
Rather strong words from a young woman who is having a great and successful time in America right
now. But every time something like this comes out, it can only reinforce her decision, even though
she knows kids in Europe can be every bit as nasty as kids in America, and that European teachers
can be jerkoffs as much as American teachers can.

[Hugin]

106. Charming... A 'code red' on an autistic child.

Disgusting.

Revolting.

[liberalhistorian]

111. What's even more disgusting and revolting is the certain

teacher on this thread who not only heartily approves but insists that she "didn't hurt the kid, just employed method of group control." Bleh. You don't do that to even so-called "normal" children, period. She's lucky she was never one of my aspie son's teachers.

[Lance_Boyle]

115. NOT an autistic child - a misbehaving child who's mother wishes

for him to be diagnosed as autistic. Perhaps he is, perhaps he isn't. Seems mother is very eager to have an excuse for her child's behavioral problems. Maybe she should work on that.

[Odin2005]

127. So now us autistic people are just "Acting up?"

Fuck you!

[Lance_Boyle]

133. Has the misbehving child been diagnosed with autism? No?

Seems you're a bit overeager to welcome this one into the club - he is *not* at this point one of "us autistic people." He is a misbehaving child whose mother seeks to excuse his misbehavior by wishing onto him a medical diagnosis that has not been made.

[LeftishBrit]

134. Even if this were true, which I doubt....

NOTHING could justify what this teacher did. It would be one thing for the teacher or school to expel the child; it's another to make the other children verbally attack the child and vote him out of the room. As I said in another post, this is not only cruel to the child; it is teaching the other children to act in a cruel and immoral fashion.

This is of course not typical teacher behaviour. My theory is that this particular teacher may have been influenced by the more extreme forms of 'group therapy' and its offshoots. It sounds more like the sort of thing that might have happened in an 'encounter group' 20 years ago than in a school - especially as it ended with the teacher inviting the child to say how he felt.

[Odin2005]

144. I didn;t get diagnosed with Aspergers until I was 15, so does that justify all those teachers...

...and other adults that dismissed my problems as laziness and compulsive lying?

[Lance_Boyle]

145. Were you lazy and did you compulsively lie?

Teachers are not medical professionals. They don't exist to diagnose diseases or to treat them. If the student has behavioral problems, teachers (and more often adminsitrators) deal with that. If the student has a medical problem that CAUSES behavioral problems, then perhaps the child needs to be in an environment where someone with the training to treat that condition can treat it, instead of being foisted off on unprepared teachers under the guise of "mainstreaming." A parent's right to "mainstream" a handicapped child ends at the point that "mainstreaming" begins to interfere with the right of the rest of the class to an education.

[Odin2005]

147. I was no more lazy than anyone else, and I don't lie because I suck at lying, and because it's wrong

[Lance_Boyle]

153. I believe you.

My point is that teachers are not trained to diagnose medical problems, but they can spot behavioral problems. If a medical problem underlies the behavioral problems, it may be best to have someone trained to deal with it, deal with it. Not a teacher in a classroom full of other kids.

[LWolf]

107. Suspended a year without pay?

Who's going to hire her back?

How somebody who'd treat a kindergarten (or any) classroom like a round of survivor slipped through the licensing process puzzles me.

I'll step out on a limb for this prediction:

Her district isn't going to place her back in the classroom, and she's not going to get a referral that will get her hired anywhere else.

[Hannah Bell]

108. since when do kindergarteners get to vote on who's in their class?

[liberalhistorian]

110. Since they have a dipshit sadistic bitch of a teacher

who should not only be fired, but should never work with children again, that's when.

[Recursion]

114. Actually I like the idea

First: keep in mind the child has not been diagnosed with autism, Aspberger's or anything else.

If he's being disruptive, oblivious to the feelings of others, loud, disrespectful, etc., I don't see what's wrong with letting the other kids in the class have some say in whether he stays or goes. Nor of having the kids tell him what he is doing that is upsetting them.

[kiranon]

118. Then they can vote the fat kids out and kids who look different. Hmmm.

Sarcasm alert. Children voting other children in or out of class is not a good idea. It is a total abrogation of the school's responsibility. There are procedures to remove disruptive children from the classroom. I am a mom of 2 autistic children and neither one has been disruptive. My son is very smart and sometimes a bit odd but not disruptive. Parents who think other children are disruptive may be in denial about their own children's behavior/oddities. At some point, anyone's child could be voted out for ridiculous reasons or for good cause in the eyes of the other children. Life is not about sameness. Creativity and innovation do not come from children who seek to be just like everyone else.

[Recursion]

119. Look, it's being presented here as "voting the kid out"

My guess is, the teacher asked all the children if they were feeling bullied/harrassed by the kid in question, and most of them said yes, so she made him leave.

[JonLP24]

149. Many go years without being diagnosed

When I read the symptoms for ADHD it is something I strongly believe I've had and still have in many ways but never seen a doctor for in my lifetime. For example, Be easily distracted, miss details, forget things, and frequently switch from one activity to another. Yes. Have difficulty focusing on one thing. Yes. Become bored with a task after only a few minutes, unless they are doing something enjoyable. Yes. Have trouble completing or turning in homework assignments, often losing things (e.g., pencils, toys, assignments) needed to complete tasks or activities. Yes. Not seem to listen when spoken to. Yes. Have difficulty processing information as quickly and accurately as others and daydream, become easily confused, and move slowly. Yes and which is why I don't engage much in General Discussion and focus solely on the Sports forum.

However with all that I wasn't popular in elementary school and picked on and bullied quite a bit. The idea of having other kids especially at the age is just a popularity contest and a very bad idea. Adults who are aware of these things should be in charge of these type of decisions and not kids who think tigers are lions(actual argument I had when I was in kindegarton) and kids like me who totally spaced out on what the assignment was and I cheated off the female student sitting next to me. The topic? Write your own name over and over again. In actuality I was writing her name over and over again.

The symptoms I list I still got those and always had and always had bad grades in school mostly because of the forgetting things part of it. Though I never seen a doctor for the specific reason and no teacher recognized those symptoms and just assumed I was a bad student.

[mamaleah]

125. I was wondering about that too.

Turning a classroom into Survivor Island. Classy.

[One_Life_To_Give]

117. This isn't the Lottery!! WTF

Sure the Teacher was an idiot. Thats why the school took disaplinary action against her.

Doesn't give you some right to this version of MegaBucks.

[Regret My New Name]

122. What an idiot teacher...

I tried thinking of a way to defend her just to be different and annoying, but I really couldn't...

[dembotoz]

123. the dark side of mainstreaming everyone

schools can be (are) very cruel places.
just eternally gratefull my kids were all relatively normal.

[demodonkey]

126. My autistic (Asperger's) brother was yelled at by a minister at age 6...

...for crying because he didn't get a star on his head like everyone else in the Sunday School class.

Right before he died at age 49 Paul was STILL sometimes repeating the minister's exact words over and over and over from time to time... "Stop it boy! Stop it! Stop it! Stop it boy..."

He NEVER got over it.

[daedalus_dude]

129. On a broader note: "Direct democracy is like two wolves and a sheep voting what's for supper."

;)

Voting is the lesser important half of democracy. The more important half is to have a consensus on basic in-disputable values.

[CreekDog]

130. Even if you could justify removing the kid from the classroom, there is no cause to do it that way

My other pet peeve is how a lot of adults these days ask children to take on adult roles where it is clearly inappropriate. I'm not talking about the parent who asks the child to help them choose a healthy thing to eat for dinner. I'm talking about, this case for example.

The grown up in this case needs to be the grown up and handle an adult problem concerning a child in an adult way. This does not include having all the kids weigh in on that decision.

Oh and good parents, when in a public place and your kid comes up and grabs me, please don't negotiate with them to stop, especially when it takes 5 minutes for you to cajole them away. Please pick up your little one and take them away. Kids do that and it's fine, but when you ask nicely 10 times for them to leave the man alone or to come back here (perhaps with "please" interspersed) I suddenly have violent urges to smack the parent. The kid of course is in no danger and unlike the parent is acting more in accord with his/her age than the parent.

:rant:

That last comment might not go over well.

[marshall]

132. I agree that the situation, intolerable as it may have been, was not handled properly

The other children could have been traumatized and frightened on a daily basis by the behavior of this boy, perhaps no learning was going on in that classroom at all, and perhaps the teacher had tried every avenue she knew to deal with the situation, but calling on the children as a group to vote the boy out (if for no other reason than it couldn't possibly be enforced in and of itself) was extremely poor judgment on the part of this adult.

[Hepburn]

135. Suspended for one year?

GMAFB.....she needs to lose her fucking license PERMANENTLY! :grr:

[undeterred]

141. The Onion keeps being beat by reality.

[TexasObserver]

142. This story is so shocking to me. The teacher?!!

Kids will bully. But the teacher?!

[Odin2005]

148. I was bullied by teachers, I have PTSD from it. This doesn't shock me one bit.

[lumberjack_jeff]

155. All those in favor of voting Wendy Portillo out of the fucking country?

Aye!

Fireeeeeeeeee.... d.