"Close friends" - this thread will sink like a stone

[PCIntern]

but I don't care at this hour of the AM...

I watched the Kennedy Memorial last night, moved to tears at times, laughing out loud at others, just as many others here did, and inspired by each (other than that shit McCain), I got to thinking about my close friends many years ago...

When I was a young dentist, most if not all of my friends were dentists or dental personnel, such as laboratory folk, or even young-lady-staff members of other offices (it was an 'exciting time' in my life) simply because it was easiest to have a working discussion about the day's events, have people understand the context of an incident, interaction, or event, or just plain gossip about the resident population of dental folk (not as dull as it sounds).

This of course is not unusual for anyone....but I'm allowed my narcissism at this age and stage...

I counted among my acquaintances many whose personal, professional, and especially political personae would revolt me now: RWers, marital cheats, anti-intellectuals (!), brazen hucksters, and in retrospect, I almost can't believe that I even had a polite conversation with several of these, much less communed, socialized extensively, went on Convention Trips with, and even 'dated' (to be polite). But the one aspect of their existence which was critical/pivotal was that they understood the daily 'process' in which they and I were immersed, and no one, and I mean NO ONE outside mine or anyone's particular business, profession, marital status, etc., can REALLY REALLY comprehend, and that of course explains 90% of why there was the 'bond' which allowed such disparate folk to get along.

In addition, many of us were, despite differences in attributes, extroverted feeling people, who enjoyed the repartee, stories, advice-giving, whatever.

And so I saw this in last night's remarkable service. Senator Hatch is still a sanctimonious schmuck, probably wound tight as a drum, but had much in common with Kennedy as well as a probable longing to be as adventurous and downright behaviorally-insane - in a good way - as Teddy was...Orrin certainly looks repressed to me. I don't really care if Hatch's behavior truly emanates from a belief-system or not: the net effect is that he successfully has managed to keep a good portion of America down, all the while having a rousing time with his buddy Teddy whilst he votes against aid to the poor, against veterans benefits, against the Democratic President's nomination to the Supreme Court, and has the temerity to get up on the dais, weep openly and legitimately for his best friend in the whole world, and stand against every principle which the now-deceased Senator ever worked for, and we're supposed to accept this as 'business-as-usual'. Wink wink; nod nod.

But in the context of the Senate, and for the idiosyncratic individuals who make up this august but peculiar body of people, they were truly connected - you could see that in Hatch's demeanor, and his staccato laugh of a nervous, frightened man will forever be my vision of him now. I used to think of him as the inspiration (I know it wasn't really) for the Senator from Nevada in the Godfather: unctuous, warm in public, vicious and cold and bigoted in private, and very creepy with peculiar overtones which don't bear discussion at this time. But now, I'll always visualize this overwhelmed, emotional, inadequate persona who was deemed an effective tool by his masters a long time ago, and used effectively. My Pittsburgh-born father of blessed memory once said in referring to some outrageous position taken by Hatch: "What else do you expect from a Mormon born in Pittsburgh?"

I'm deeply moved by the loss of Senator Kennedy - it dredged up all the upset which I felt that Friday Afternoon in 1963 and that morning when I awakened to Bobby's death, having gone to sleep the night before thinking that he probably would be the next President, rescuing us from the Vietnam War and internal turmoil resulting from that and from the death of Dr. King. I grieve for America, for we have lost a champion, a powerful, extraordinary champion, for the ordinary man and woman.

[Kahuna]

1. I turned it off when McInsane was up. I couldn't stomach his hypocrisy and

I'm glad that I missed old Orrin's. I never want to have warm feelings of any sort for either. I did record the wake on my DVD recorder. I will watch later and fast forward those two.

[PCIntern]

2. you should watch Orrin's,,,

it was very good, it really was. I can't stand him...but watching him was quite the experience - a real lesson in psychodynamics, and it was very funny at times...almost like watching Bob Newhart's act...

McCain's off the charts weird and effed up...

[Kahuna]

3. Okay....okay...I'll watch... But only because...

I generally respect your opinion and usually see eye to eye with you. And...

[PCIntern]

4. Do let me know what you think...

I respect your opinions here too...

[DemReadingDU]

13. I noticed the same thing about Orrin too

It was quite the contrast that two seemingly opposite people, were such good friends. Orrin was genuinely moved about Teddy's passing. I wish Orrin would take that back to the Senate, but he won't. He's such a tool.

[BrklynLiberal]

21. Perfect comparison of Hatch to Newhart!!! It was just like one of Newhart's routines!!!

[lunatica]

19. You can tell he loves Ted Kennedy and you'll be glad you watched

He was one of the few who actually teared up while he talked.

I also heard that he has a painting that Ted painted hanging in his office.

[ConnorMarc]

5. You're Right Orrin Was DEFINITELY Repressed

And how could you bring yourself to date (to put it politely) a Right-Winger?

[PCIntern]

6. The sex was great beyond belief...

need I say more?

[rucognizant]

35. How?

Could a repressed Rep. be free enough to have good sex?

[PCIntern]

38. Use your imagination and square the quantity ...

and add 3 zeroes...that's the number...

[Kahuna]

7. The (to be polite) part cracked me up too. Ugh! I shudder to think...

[PCIntern]

8. If you saw her pic,

you would agree with my friends and even my wife later (she found the pic, I'm not crazy enough to show it around!) that you could EASILY overlook her politics...

[Kahuna]

11. So, that means you would "date" Michelle Bachman? She's pretty.

What about Sarah Palin? Would you "date" her? I'm just busting your chops. I don't really care who you "date."

[RoccoR5955]

12. BAAAARRRRRFFFFFF!

Those two are NOT pretty... Thanks... I just lost my breakfast!

[PCIntern]

14. eye no that...

and it was 34 years ago...things were different back then...sort of...

[Obamanaut]

9. It might sink, but it certainly should not. This is an "eye-specker" nt

[malaise]

10. Nice OP

As I watched Hatch I shared your thoughts and did wonder how you can praise a man who fought and shared with others while having no intention of changing. Human beings are really strange.

Thanks

add

[Mira]

15. Two observations other than that I was fascinated to read it.

In years past, in my life, though I was always interested and involved in politics, I can remember a time when I did not always know the political persuasions of all the people my life touched. The stark partisanship that came about with our "Uniter" pRresident *GWB* was not evident in the country or in my life to that degree in the decades before.
I might even be close to a few people before I realized that we philosophically and politically could never connect.
Now though, it's almost like a radar, and I know in the first famous four minutes......

And about your observations of Orrin Hatch last night, I think you are so beautifully describing what I saw and felt, I must recommend this post a few times
He knew he was an inferior last night and I sensed the repression and the longing to be free of his own self.
He as always reminded me of the narrator in "The Rocky Horror picture show" who also has not effing neck.
Very good post - thank you for writing it.

[DemReadingDU]

16. Second reading

I never really paid much attention to politics, until Kerry 'lost' in 2004. Now I watch and read a lot, and see a stark contrast in the cult-like followers of right wing compared to the research-for-facts left wing. While I still speak to my Republican acquaintances, spouse refuses to have anything to do with any Republicans. Truly, he has isolated himself to speaking with only a handful of people (thankfully I am one of them).

I am deeply saddened by the loss of Senator Kennedy, he was an icon and a true friend to everyone. His loss will be felt by many.

[Kaleva]

17. I wonder if Sen. Kennedy truly liked Sen. Hatch....

and thought of him as friend? If so, is there a lesson in that for the rest of us? I have friends across the political spectrum and there are people whose views are similar to mine but I do not associate with them.

[lib_wit_it]

18. My relationships with Rs have ended because after freely spamming me with their political views, I d

dared to respond with mine.

Many people I know note the same scenario. Rs seem to just assume that everyone agrees with them or just don't care who they offend. Even my mom has started responding to the emails with, "We obviously disagree on politics. I voted for President Obama and I support him. Please don't send any more emails disparaging him."

She's nicer than me.

[Kaleva]

34. I haven't lost a friendship soley because of politics

There are numerous people here who just assume most every other member agrees with them and get highly upset when that doesn't happen. Look at the threads complaining loudly about the unrec feature or the snarky responses and personal attacks launched against someone who posted an unpopular view. To be sure, there are trolls here who just want to cause trouble but many old timers have said they've been treated like a troll when they voiced an opinion that was outside what some others believed to be acceptable for a progressive or liberal.

Intolerance crosses the political spectrum just a tolerance does.

The people you describe in your post may well have behaviors that probably would have made me think twice about becoming friends with them in the first place. If they are asses when it comes to politics, they're most likely all around asses.

[lib_wit_it]

37. Agreed, intolerance isn't limited to Conservatives, but it is part of their popular platform. Oh,

and gee, if only I'd had you there to judge people for me before I'd made the mistake of befriending them.

[BrklynLiberal]

20. Beautiifully written post. I share most of the same memories and observations that you do.

Your eloquence on the matters is much better than I could have done.

[bertman]

22. I didn't see the memorial service last night, so I can't comment on Hatch, but I thank you

for your interesting and spot-on assessments of how various types of individuals can bond despite deep political differences.

As Mira pointed out, there was a time when politics was not so rife with strife, so it was possible and likely that one would have friends and close acquaintances of many political stripes.

Excellent post. Recommend.

P.S. I know what you mean about the hottie right-winger. Sometimes physical attraction transcends all else. At least temporarily.

[DesertFlower]

23. i too am at an age (almost 68) when

i remember jack and bobby. i have not been able to watch the last few days. every time i try, i start to cry and i can't stop.

[calimary]

25. I know how you feel. I remember them too. I've spent the last couple of days

crying.

And yeah, some of that was crying over what Orrin Hatch said. Couldn't believe that lovely stuff would come out of a republi-CON's mouth. I find myself hoping there'll be some miraculous change-of-heart from one or two republi-CONS - who will come around on the health care debate - because they decided, after all, "to do it for Teddy." Can their hearts be softened? Do most of them even HAVE hearts?

[DesertFlower]

26. i still cry when i see

pictures of jack and bobby.

[calimary]

28. I don't cry. I just hurt.

There's a deep ache that swells in my heart when I think of them and what might have been. Our poor country. Lord, what we've lost. And the bad guys live on and on and on and multiply and scourge the earth with their selfishness and greed and shortsightedness. When I think what might have been, had JFK lived... Or had Bobby not been shot... Just heartbreaking to ponder. Most of the time it's too painful even to think about.

[DeadEyeDyck]

24. I am pretty young in that

I was even a bayby when th OK city bombing happwsed. Hard for to relate.

[Hardrada]

30. Lots of books and DVD's on the topic.

[Overseas]

27. Love your descriptions of Hatch.

Thank you because he's made me so uneasy over the years.

[newtothegame]

29. God, desperation. n/t

[BobTheSubgenius]

31. Not sinking like a stone, my friend.

I can't believe how much the world has changed since those days of which you speak.....and how long the Kennedy family was a big part of the landscape.

It's hard to believe and harder to bear that that unbroken line might well have finally ended.

[Prism]

32. There are no "others"

People are people, flawed, human, confusing, different, impossible to understand. But people, nonetheless. Our society, our culture, our psychology drives us to categorize, to dismiss, to create classes of others and treat them accordingly.

There are no others. There are only people.

Every single person I've met in my life has taught me something. All of them. Right-wingers and liberals, gay, straight, black, white, male, female. Every single person I've ever met is exactly who they are through their own unique history, and how they get where they are and think as they do is down to so many factors that I could never hope to untangle it all.

But no matter who they are, I never hate them. I listen, I learn, I try to understand. Sometimes I succeed, sometimes not. But I know there is something of value in just about every person breathing, there's something that needs to be heard, thought about, contemplated.

We're taught to hate difference. It's our great cultural failing. We see it every single day. Only in death do we occasionally acknowledge that, yes, despite all those differences, there are actual, breathing people there who aren't an actual archetypal evil who deserve our scorn. They have their reasons, the same as us, and those reasons aren't always purely horrible and easily categorized.

But all of that takes work, understanding, patience, and an outward attention.

It is never ever easy, but in my experience, it is always always worth it.

[Joe Chi Minh]

33. It's an odd thought but your far-right sometimes seem more humane

than ours in the UK. I'm thinking particularly of our press: wall-to-wall, right-wing shysters, bar the Guardian and doubtless the Daily Worker, if it's still going. They're all livid - having a fit with their leg up, about the royal honour being shown to the memory of Edward.

He obviously moved mountains for the people of America, and I think it's also satisfying an overwhelming need to "spit in the eye" of his brothers' killers.

[rucognizant]

36. WHich leads to the speculation..........

WHY didn't g h w bush attend the funeral service ???????????
He can't be too infirm, he just jumped out of a plane 2 1/2 months ago...
DId he NOT receive an invitation from the Kennedy Family?

[Joe Chi Minh]

39. Yes, indeed; a puzzle.

[PCIntern]

40. Perhaps something's about to happen...

perhaps it's something interesting...something which will be made public now...

[Joe Chi Minh]

41. You intrigue me, Doc...

[Are_grits_groceries]

42. When Kennedy was going through that bad time

after the Palm Beach incident, a lot of people were worried about him. Hatch was one of the Senators he was close to and tried to help him. I believe he and Hatch were true friends, and Hatch seemed to have a connection with Teddy's family. I don't know if he ever went sailing, but he seems to have been a friend beyond the Senate floor. He was somewhat nervous at the ceremony, but all in all, he did fit in.

Now if you want to talk about repressed, if John McCain was wound any tighter, he'd fly apart. I know being a POW had to have had some effect. However, he seems to have a real problem expressing any real emotion except anger. I'm trying to remember when I've seen a real smile from him. I think he was very uncomfortable at the service because of all the emotion. If he ever let go, I think he believes he couldn't put himself back together again.

[PCIntern]

43. someday,

we're going to hear the real story about McCain...