Obama Goes Golfing on Martha's Vineyard as "TOO BIG TO FAIL" Banks Get Bigger

[Orwellian_Ghost]

MORAL HAZARD INDEED -- U.S. President Barack Obama (R) walks alongside Robert Wolf, Chairman and CEO of UBS Group Americas, as the play golf at Farm Neck Golf Course at Oak Bluffs on Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts, August 24, 2009. On the first day of his vacation in Martha’s Vineyard, President Obama spent five hours golfing with UBS executive Robert Wolf, an early financial backer of Obama’s presidential campaign. As the pair teed off, another UBS banker, Bradley Birkenfeld, had just been handed a forty-month prison sentence after pleading guilty to assisting a client evade taxes. It was the first sentence in a wider scandal that has seen UBS admit to helping wealthy Americans dodge their tax obligations. On his own initiative, Birkenfeld blew the whistle on UBS. His disclosure and cooperation with US authorities provided inside information into the bank’s conduct and sparked the massive federal investigation. REUTERS/Jason Reed

Banks ‘Too Big to Fail’ Have Grown Even Bigger
Behemoths Born of the Bailout Reduce Consumer Choice, Tempt Corporate Moral Hazard

by David Cho

When the credit crisis struck last year, federal regulators pumped tens of billions of dollars into the nation's leading financial institutions because the banks were so big that officials feared their failure would ruin the entire financial system.


Today, the biggest of those banks are even bigger.

The crisis may be turning out very well for many of the behemoths that dominate U.S. finance. A series of federally arranged mergers safely landed troubled banks on the decks of more stable firms. And it allowed the survivors to emerge from the turmoil with strengthened market positions, giving them even greater control over consumer lending and more potential to profit.

J.P. Morgan Chase, an amalgam of some of Wall Street's most storied institutions, now holds more than $1 of every $10 on deposit in this country. So does Bank of America, scarred by its acquisition of Merrill Lynch and partly government-owned as a result of the crisis, as does Wells Fargo, the biggest West Coast bank. Those three banks, plus government-rescued and -owned Citigroup, now issue one of every two mortgages and about two of every three credit cards, federal data show.

...

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2009/08/28

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. You must think he's very uppity.

[omega minimo]

127. The Banksters probably do.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

139. Maybe.

But at least they didn't write this stupid racist article.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

162. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

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[omega minimo]

204. .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Please also address now the linking/posting from one thread/forum to another for abusive purposes


Skinner
I think it is one of the major contributors to making people feel victimized on DU. For both the people who are doing the linking, and for the people who are being linked to. It's against the rules, but we don't usually step in unless it starts causing an obvious problem.

To be honest, recently I've been thinking we should go back to the zero-tolerance approach. This behavior is toxic. Of course, if we did, I suspect the most determined offenders would either move the behavior to private messages, or off-board.

[Hannah Bell]

185. where? be specific. paste the race-baiting passages from the washington post article, please.

[Name removed]

190. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

210. Deleted message

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[Swede]

2. Too bad they didn't fail and plunge the world into a depression.

[yurbud]

13. are you sure that would have happened or was even a risk?

We just have to take their word for it, or the word of those at Fed and Treasury who all come from the same handful of firms.

I would feel better about giving them money if every company that got it had to fire all their top execs, and the heads of their CEOs were displayed on the pikes of the White House fence--or they at least went to prison.

[ddeclue]

3. Un-recced for cheapshot headline. nt

[omega minimo]

126. Kicked for Petty UnReccers

[Drunken Irishman]

4. Orwellian_Ghost sits on his ass, doing absolutely nothing while throwing stones...

[HughMoran]

40. ...just another day in the life ...

Guy's a cheap-shot artist. Never provided a single productive post - just hit and run.

[SidDithers]

45. +1...nt

Sid

[Spazito]

5. Geez, you are really reaching now....

Pathetic, truly pathetic.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

20. Sounds like this is okay

to a lot of folks here.

Guess even the tepid Common Dreams has become too radical eh?



Maybe we could get a pairing with smoe anti-war folks or some single-payer advocates or ...

There's no reach here. Just a simple article which if you are paying attention informs your thinking about who has the prez' ear and who doesn't.

[Spazito]

34. Your posts leave the distinct impression only YOUR take on issues...

is true, all else is unacceptable. You merely have an opinion, nothing more. I have an opinion, nothing more. This OP is crap, imo.

[omega minimo]

132. "President spent five hours golfing with UBS executives" "Banks ‘Too Big to Fail’ Have Grown Bigger"

"President Obama spent five hours golfing with UBS executives" - "Banks ‘Too Big to Fail’ Have Grown Even Bigger"

Yep, that's "really a stretch............."

That's what you get for connecting the dots, OG!!

[defendandprotect]

214. "Reaching" because we all know that golf/business have never been profitable for the players????

[lpbk2713]

6. "Tunnel Vision" Award of the Day nominee.

[omega minimo]

134. That would be all those on this topic who object to the stories being connected.

and object to thinking about or discussing the possibilities.

"Tunnel vision" = hiding your head in the sand.

[polichick]

7. Guess he's an American politician to the tee! lol nt

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[polichick]

29. Stick to the issue (corporate influence) - personal attacks are against DU rules...

"Treat other members with respect. Do not post personal attacks against other members of this discussion forum."

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

8. Oh, shut up. n/t

[jonnyblitz]

9. NICE golf buddies. nt

[LanternWaste]

178. The last I went golfing with my boss and some of his "NICE gold buddies"...

The last I went golfing with my boss and some of his "NICE gold buddies", he wound up buying out their company two months later-- they weren't very happy about it.



I guess a lot of people think golf is the same as a knitting-club.

[katandmoon]

11. K&R because while Obama fiddles, we get burned.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

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[Neecy]

16. I don't think the issue was his vacation

It was his choice of golfing buddies. Personally I think it shows a bit of a tin ear.

[Drunken Irishman]

18. You know that isn't it at all.

Some people just like to bitch for the sake of bitching. This poster has not said one positive thing about Pres. Obama.

[Neecy]

22. I know that? Really?

I don't know anything about the history of the OP.

I read the point of this as his choice of golfing budding, not his choice to go on vacation. If you interpret it differently, fine, but don't bully me but telling me what I "know". Get a grip.

[polichick]

39. Of course it's his choice of buddies - it brings up the question of corporate influence...

...how silly to pretend any queries are about his vacation or his color.

[Hannah Bell]

41. why are you injecting race into it? it has nothing to do with race.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

42. Author's calling a black guy both lazy and uppity.

Clear racism.

[Neecy]

46. Where? Please be specific.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

56. The part where he attacks Obama for vacationing on Martha's Vineyard.

[Neecy]

62. Where is the attack?

I don't see an attack for either the vacation or the location. I see questioning his choice of UBS golfing partner, but that's it.

[Hannah Bell]

71. according to the apologists, it's "racist" to say obama is vacationing

at the vinyard.

because the vinyard was the traditional vacationspot of rich white people.

so if you mention a rich black person vacationing there, you're subtly implying he doesn't belong there.

such is the convoluted logic of the apologists.

simply put - any criticism of obama's policies can & will be labeled "racist", & any petty detail, such as noting he's on vacation in power broker land (traditionally white, now integrated) will be used to fling the race bullshit.

[dionysus]

73. your last sentence, nice fail;

simply put - any criticism of obama's policies can & will be labeled "racist", & any petty detail, such as noting he's on vacation in power broker land (traditionally white, now integrated) will be used to fling the race bullshit.

reverse race-card huh... did you know that's the EXACT same thing the repukes say? you're in great company with the likes of rush and glenn beck, comrade.

[Hannah Bell]

86. truth is truth. these things are used specifically to promote division on BOTH sides,

& if you don't like the accusation, don't pretend saying "obama is on vacation at the vinyard" when he IS on vacation at the vinyard = "racism".

the fact that you & your buddies are pulling out this crap in response to the criticism that obama is too close to the banksters pretty much discredits anything else you say.

[dionysus]

102. well, pardon me if i could care less what you think about my credibility, comreade bell.

[Hannah Bell]

111. nor do i care what people who use phoney accusations of racism to deflect legitimate

political criticism think of mine, comprador dionysus.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

137. "legitimate political criticism"

[Hannah Bell]

147. the op's criticism is over-close ties to banksters. your attempts to spin it

aen't working.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

155. Playing golf is not a close tie.

Your attempt to spin this as "legitimate" is fucking hilarious.

[Hannah Bell]

166. playing golf, in concert with billions to banksters, in the face of overwhelming opposition

from the public - is.

your attempts to label it "racism" = hilarious.


Expressing disbelief, Senator Snowe also cited the interwoven relationship of UBS and AIG. UBS has paid $782 million in taxes and penalties for its criminal offenses. Over the weekend, AIG disclosed that it has transferred billions of dollars to financial institutions with which it had a trading relationship in credit default swaps, including $800 million to UBS. Further, AIG paid $1.7 billion of taxpayer dollars to UBS under its securities lending program.

"The Treasury Department needs to take a close look at its cash flows," Senator Snowe continued. "If the Swiss government does not start cooperating on bank secrecy, I see no reason why American taxpayers should be laundering money back to banks that promote tax evasion."

http://snowe.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Pre... .

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

170. Overwhelming opposition?

Obama beat your boy John McCain in a fucking landslide.

Oh, and btw, Obama's turned the economy around, thanks in part to bailing out banks.

Suck on that.

[Hannah Bell]

184. on the bank bailout. on which public calls & letters overwhelmed the white house

& which reportedly ran something like 100 to 1 in opposition.

"turned the economy around" - for WHO?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

189. For whom? For you, silly.

You'd be shit out of luck right now if the banks had failed.

[Hannah Bell]

199. two people on my block = still laid off, silly. unemployment in my town = 15%.

no "recovery" here.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

206. Ooo, lah dee dah.

Anecdotal evidence isn't evidence of shit.

[Hannah Bell]

211. let's see - last time i checked, national unemployment = 9.4% with +10% predicted for 2010.

is that "anecdotal"?

detroit area = over 25%.

michigan & cali = over 10%.

recovery for WHO?

oh, that's right, for the banksters.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

218. New unemployment claims way down.

Numbers are improving exactly as one would expect in a recession, and well ahead of the predictions from when Obama took office.

Sucks to be you people.

[Hannah Bell]

221. uh - that recent claim = for one week, four-week moving average, reflecting

nothing but variation in layoff timing.

since the economy is still contracting, there's no reason to see any trend toward increased employment, & indeed, no one, from CBO to the white house itself, is predicting anything but increased UN-employment into 2010.


"The government announced that the jobless rate had fallen one-tenth of a point to 9.4 per cent in July on narrowing job losses but analysts say the rate could soar to about 10 per cent by year end even with an improving economy.

The latest data showed the US economy contracted 1.0 per cent in the second quarter from a 6.4 per cent contraction in the first quarter and a drop of 5.4 per cent in the fourth quarter of 2008. -- AFP"

http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNews/Money/Story...

sucks to be *you*, trying to defend bullshit.

[omega minimo]

182. "Playing golf is not a close tie."

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

197. You're expecting a game of ultimate frisbee with Circle-K cashiers out on Martha's Vineyard?

[omega minimo]

198. You know golf ain't about the balls, it's about the walking around.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

207. It's about conspiracy theories, right?

And this is your latest one.

[omega minimo]

215. Slimeball

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

217. What phase of the moon are we in, Omega Minimo?

[Hannah Bell]

201. straw.

[inna]

106. patently untrue.

author has NOT called the President neither "lazy" nor "uppity". why do you make things up?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

108. Because that's exactly what he's doing in this hit piece.

You can pretend otherwise all you want, you're just digging the hole deeper.

[omega minimo]

145. "You can pretend otherwise all you want, you're just digging the hole deeper."

[omega minimo]

146. because he can.

[omega minimo]

143. What a false claim. Cuz YOU say it, it's so? Your post is race-baiting

[omega minimo]

161. misogynist slurs don't belong here.

[dionysus]

31. absurd.

[Doctor_J]

14. No vacation until every problem in the country is solved!

[Drunken Irishman]

15. Hell, I don't want him taking a shit and wiping his ass until every problem is solved.

No sex, either.

And dinner? Fuck that! A luxury some don't have.

Obama needs to lock himself in the Oval Office and actually work until he drops dead from a heart attack.

That's just how it should be!



So many fucking morons on this site.

[lapfog_1]

17. Obama goes golfing

meantime, a Gamma Ray Burst (in a far distant Galaxy) takes direct aim at the EARTH!!!

Oh why didn't he DO SOMETHING???

We are all going to DIE!!!!

btw,

[dflprincess]

19. I do think the points Common Dreams makes about the

"too big to fail" banks getting bigger are reasonable and we should wonder why that is being allowed.

Slamming Obama for taking a vacation and playing some golf? Not so much (well, really, not at all).

[Orwellian_Ghost]

23. Oh please

If you can't see the connection between the article and the picture you are blind or worse. The picture accompanies the article at Common Dreams, they didn't make it difficult to figure out.

Golfing with a fat cat bankster during this recession isn't okay. If you think it is you may wish to recalibrate. When is O-Man scheduled to pair up with a homeless advocate?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

24. Stop ranting about the man's vacation.

He's on fucking vacation. Deal. With. It.

[dionysus]

35. for christ's sake, if he went golfing with cindy sheehan you'd still manufacture a reason to howl.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

61. A homeless advocate would still be too rich for you.

Why not just go for a real homeless person?

[dflprincess]

87. I generally do agree with you

and I have major concerns about how corporate friendly Obama has become and he should be paying more attention to what the people, not CEOs need. I wish that once he got this particular crook out of ear shot of others on the golf course, he'd lay down the law to him, but I'm not delusional enough to think that will happen.

Sorry, I think everyone deserves to relax - not only deserves to, but everyone needs some down time for the sake of their health (physical and mental). One of the injustices in the U.S. is how little vacation time we get compared to the rest of the western nations.

We're not talking about a George Bush, month long, don't bother me with details vacation here. Obama is only 11 days and I'll bet he's still reading the PDBs.

[subcomhd]

135. Do you think it might be possible

he is getting concessions from them? Why do you assume they are manipulating him and not the other way around? Do you believe FDR never met with "banksters?"

[Hannah Bell]

150. fdr *was* a bankster.

[subcomhd]

180. You think FDR was a bad president? eom

[Hannah Bell]

186. nice straw. roll in it.

[subcomhd]

191. I assume you mean "bankster" pejoratively.

And you called him one. So what is your opinion of his presidency?

[Hannah Bell]

205. "bankster" = well-connected in the financial industry.

roosevelts = founders of chemical bank & bank of ny.

fdr = 3rd cousin of jp morgan (via lymans), cousin of brown brothers banksters (via delanos), cousin of numerous other banksters, & a former wall streeter himself at carter ledyard.

fact: the roosevelts' history is intertwined with the history of the us financial sector for over 200 years.

those are *facts*.

[Greyhound]

21. "Now, watch this drive" n/t

Edited for accuracy.

[Binka]

26. Not To Quibble But The FuckFace Said "Now Watch This Drive." n/t

[Greyhound]

28. Oops. It's been a couple of years since I saw it.

[Binka]

37. No Worries Buddy I Remember Because It Just Chapped My Ass

Much like his looking under the table and declaring "No WMD under here." Fuckface is such a ruthless narcissistic asshole. I fucking loathe the asscarrot.

[dionysus]

49. wow, clever attempt to claim obama = bush... not.

[redqueen]

52. What galls me is that shit like that is somehow viewed as "constructive criticism".

Nice... real nice, DU.

[dionysus]

54. anything to the right of kucinich is a republican to them.

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

25. U.S. President Barack Obama (R)???

U.S. President Barack Obama (R)<<<<< Cute typo(?)

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

27. Perhaps it means that his name is a registered trademark.

But since it's from commondreams I'm just going to assume that it's bullshit.

[Hannah Bell]

57. photo & caption originally from reuters, & reprinted with the (R) by yahoo news & other outlets.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=President+Barack+O...


just as the article is original to the washington post.

msm sources all.

but continue pretending the content is something "common dreams" invented on their own.

[Prism]

120. The (R) means "right" in photo captions

(L) for left, (C) for center, etc. It's a photo description, not a political signifier.

Here's another photo from the same series that uses them:

Edit: Agh, DU won't let me post it. Anyway, I'll just post the caption. It's from 25 of 89 in the yahoo series.

Swiss President and Finance Minister Hans-Rudolf Merz (C), Swiss Justice Minister Eveline Widmer-Schlumpf (R) and Swiss Foreign Minister Micheline Calmy-Rey attend a news conference after the weekly meeting of the Federal Council to inform about details of a deal to settle a U.S. tax case against Swiss bank UBS AG in Bern August 19, 2009. REUTERS/Pascal Lauener</div>

[dionysus]

33. the clowns at commondreams seem to have soiled their pampers...

[Hannah Bell]

44. "common dreams" now run by "clowns"? interesting "democrats" here at du.

btw, the article was originally published in the washington post, if you want "clowns".

[dionysus]

47. i don't consider someone toting a karl marx avatar to represent Democrats either, comrade.

[Hannah Bell]

51. it's not about me, dio.

[CrownPrinceBandar]

70. and there's no (R) after his name at the link given.......

that's some typo indeed.

[Hannah Bell]

74. the caption isn't from the link given. it's original from reuters wire service & did indeed come

with the (R).


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=President+Barack+O...

2nd photo in this slideshow:

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Swiss-Bank-UBS/ss/events/...

[CrownPrinceBandar]

80. I see it now........

Thanks.

[dionysus]

30. oh noes... the president takes a few vaction days. the horror i tell you, the horror.

[SOS]

32. The two other golfers with Obama not mentioned:

1. Marvin Nicholson, personal assistant to Senator John Kerry during the 2004 U.S. presidential campaign. Featured in a New York Times article which praised his resourcefulness and preparedness for virtually anything on the campaign trail.

2. Eric Whitaker, a doctor who is frequently on the Obama campaign plane is the executive vice president for strategic affiliations and associate dean for community-based research at the University of Chicago Medical Center, where Michelle Obama worked before she took a leave for the campaign. Before that, Whitaker was the director of the Illinois Department of Public Health.

[Greyhound]

36. I see that the "fans of distraction" are out in force today.

"Pay no attention to that man behind the (man)." (He's our bloodsucking parasite)

It's all about the vacation! You hate blacks! Blah, blah, blah...

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

38. The new boss meets the real bosses.

[SidDithers]

43. OMFG!!! He's golfing!! On his vacation!!!...

The nerve, of the President of the Unites States, to golf on his vacation.

The perpetual outrage of some people around here is fucking hilarious.

Sid

[dionysus]

48. ELEVENS!!11!!11!!11!!

[SidDithers]

58. SERIESLY!!!11!!...

Sid

[SIMPLYB1980]

50. U.S. President Barack Obama (R)? WTF!

Common Dreams and some stupid people jumped the shark with that one.

[dionysus]

53. isn't it so clever to call Obama a republican or compare him to bush... all the hip kids do it.

[CrownPrinceBandar]

68. Check the link.............

there is no (R) after Obama's name there.

[dionysus]

72. are you saying it's a false comparison FAIL?

[CrownPrinceBandar]

82. No. Just Yahoo! editorializing.

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

116. Not just Yahoo!... Google "Barack Obama (R)" their are more like this...

Tho, I don't remember the MSM doing this to Bush (D).

[Hannah Bell]

121. pure racism. (sarcasm)

[Hannah Bell]

76. because the link is to the article common dreams excerpted from the washington post, which

didn't caption the photo.

reuters did, & the obama (r) is on the caption at other outlets:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22Barack+Obama+%2...


the OP DID NOT caption it.

[SIMPLYB1980]

125. So why is the OP using a different text than the one from the link?

Just curious. Seems very disingenuous imo.

Edited to add: Also seems very Orwellian but that's just my opinion as well.

[Hannah Bell]

187. the photo caption is labeled "reuters". read.

[Prism]

129. It doesn't mean Republican

It means he's the figure on the right in the photo. (L) and (C) mean left and center respectively. Go through yahoo news photos, and you'll see (R) (C) and (L) used regularly. They're not political signifiers.

[Hansel]

55. So how much TARP money did UBS get?

I believe UBS is a Swiss bank and didn't receive any bailout money. So I'm trying to figure out what the point of this is.

What is the issue with Obama golfing with someone just because he is a banker? Is someone trying to imply quid pro quo? Because if they are, UBS is getting the short end of the stick here. They have been investigated by the Feds almost from the day Obama became president. In fact, I believe a rather significant fine was levied against them by the U.S. government a couple of weeks ago. And legislation is in the works to stop them from hiding American's dollars in foreign banks.

The mergers discussed in the article happened during the Bush administration and Obama had nothing to do with them. So shouldn't the picture be of Bush if either of them need to be pictured?

Obama is entitled to a vacation and he is entitled to golf with anyone he wants to. I could see more of a point if he was golfing with the CEO of one of the banks mentioned in the article. The photo is meant just to gin up emotions that Obama isn't doing anything about the situation and is in cohoots with these banks. To make him look like a callous bad guy with a tin ear. UBS isn't even mentioned in the story so the photo is really stretching it.

[redqueen]

60. deleted

[polichick]

64. "while not a TARP recipient, got $5 billion in bailout funds...

...as an AIG "counterparty."

http://www.newsweek.com/id/190363

[Hansel]

75. They did not get any bailout money from TARP

They pay premiums to AIG and AIG paid them. I think your are stretching it here.

UBS has nothing to do with the story. It is about mergers that happened when Bush was president. The picture is inappropriate for the article.

Edited title for more clarity.

[polichick]

78. Just answered your question. nt

[Hansel]

79. They got an insurance payment on which they paid premiums.

It's not the same as getting TARP money no matter how hard to try to stretch it. They got no bailout money from TARP or from Obama and are not a part of the story. They also were not involved in the mergers discussed in the article. Again, Obama golfing with the CEO of UBS is irrelevant to the story.

[polichick]

81. Each person can glean what they want from Obama's associations...

Personally, I'm not comfortable with any of the corporate insiders he chooses as advisors and/or buddies, including Daschle. I don't trust them.

[Hansel]

83. You can glean what you want, but you are not entitled to your own facts. nt

[polichick]

84. Where have I claimed facts, other than a direct quote from Newsweek?? nt

[Hansel]

88. You said they got bailout funds. They got an insurance payment

which they were entitled to because they paid premiums on it. That is not a bailout.

[Hannah Bell]

92. aig got 70 billion in tarp funds. ubs got 7% of that from aig. the gov't gave

aig the money to pay ubs, & it was a big chunk of the funds.

[Hansel]

96. Again, UBS made a claim and got paid on it.

This is not the same as getting a bailout. AIG got TARP money and are responsible to pay it back. That's not UBS's problem.

Also, the article is not about banks that had claims paid by AIG. The article is about mergers that took place during the Bush administration. So again, the picture does not go with the story and says nothing about how Obama is dealing with the crisis. He is on vacation and golfing with a supporter who is a CEO of a bank which has been under heavy scrutiny since Obama has been president.

I think the effort of the OP to inflame unwarranted emotions among some of the posters here has worked. But I choose to keep my head on my shoulders and not connect dots where it doesn't make sense to. If you want to buy into the BS that both the OP and Commonwealth are trying to pull, you can glean whatever you want from it. But those of us who choose to think it through a little and can recognize when we are being played can do that as well.

[Hannah Bell]

98. ubs got paid with tarp money. aig would not have been able to pay without it.

spin it as you will, it's the simple fact.

[Hansel]

124. Probably AIG would not have been able to pay the claim without TARP.

Regardless, the end result is that UBS received payment on a claim and did not receive a bailout. That is a fact.

[Hannah Bell]

188. credit default swaps.

By Nov. 5, AIG had paid out $37 billion of their bailout funds to CDS counterparties including Goldman Sachs, Merrill Lynch, UBS AG, and Deutsche Bank AG.

As The Wall Street Journal reported in November, banks in the U.S. and abroad are among the biggest winners in the federal government's $170 billion bailout of American International Group Inc.

Banks in the U.S., Europe and Canada bought credit-default swaps on these securities from AIG, which in turn promised to compensate them if the securities defaulted. Defaults haven't been a major problem, but the market values of these CDOs fell sharply over the past year or so. That enabled the banks to pry roughly $35 billion in collateral from AIG as a result of those declines and downgrades in AIG's own credit ratings. The banks that have sought and received collateral from AIG include Goldman Sachs Group Inc., Merrill Lynch & Co., UBS AG, Deutsche Bank AG and others.

"It's like a home run for some of the banks,"says Carlos Mendez, a senior managing director at ICP Capital, a fixed-income investment firm in New York. "They bought insurance from a company that ran into trouble and still managed to get all, or most, of their money back."

Under the plan announced Monday, the banks will get to keep the collateral they received from AIG, much of which came when the government made funds available to AIG in September. The banks also will sell the CDOs to the new facility at market prices averaging 50 cents on the dollar. The banks that participate will be compensated for the securities' full, or par, value in exchange for allowing AIG to unwind the credit-default swaps it wrote.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/3/5/11129/31152/953/...


US Taxpayers have no obligation to pay off banksters' gambling debts.



From the Wall Street Journal:

Some of the billions of dollars that the U.S. government paid to bail out American International Group Inc. stand to benefit hedge funds that bet on a falling housing market, according to people familiar with the matter and documents reviewed by The Wall Street Journal.

The documents show how Wall Street banks were middlemen in trades with hedge funds and AIG that left the giant insurer holding the bag on billions of dollars of assets tied to souring mortgages....

The transactions worked like this: Investment banks such as Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Deutsche Bank sold financial instruments to hedge funds letting them bet that mortgage defaults would rise. These instruments were credit default swaps, a form of insurance that pays out in the event of a debt default.

Some of the U.S.-government exposure traces back to the hedge funds that spotted problems in the U.S. housing market in 2005. They wanted to "sell short" -- or bet against -- securities backed by mortgages to questionable borrowers.....

The banks that had sold credit default swaps to the hedge funds wanted to turn around and hedge their own risks. But finding that protection wasn't easy.

So at Deutsche, the German bank's securities arm created a handful of offshore companies known as collateralized debt obligations, or CDOs. These companies carried a series of exotic names, according to securities filings, mostly based around the moniker "START," short for STAtic ResidenTial CDO. They allowed Deutsche to neutralize its exposure to the hedge funds' bets by buying swaps from START on the same securities its clients were betting against.

START held assets from a hit parade of lenders closely linked to the subprime crisis, including Bear Stearns, Countrywide Financial and New Century Financial, according to documents reviewed by the Journal.

In 2005, Deutsche found a willing taker for a chunk of the mortgage risks held by START: AIG Financial Products....

Up until AIG exited the market in 2006, "AIG was by far the single largest ultimate taker of risk in the CDO space," says a senior investment banker whose firm bought credit protection from the insurer.

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2009/03/duh-hedge-funds-...


If you can't see the scam, you're blind.

[polichick]

93. That's a quote from the article - complain to them. nt

[Hansel]

97. The article is not worth quoting, but you chose it. nt

[polichick]

100. That's your opinion - I don't usually have a problem with Newsweek as a source. nt

[Hansel]

103. That's nice. nt

[Hannah Bell]

109. you don't have a real case, do you?

[Hansel]

113. No, I'm tired of trying to reason with you is all.

I'm not suckered in by the OP or the article and the source you are using to try to persuade me isn't impressing me. The article itself, not Newsweek as a whole, is what I'm questioning. The article is really an opinion piece.

[Hannah Bell]

95. certainly it's a bailout. the gov't gave aig 70 billion to pay its creditors, & ubs

was one of them.

[Hansel]

99. Again, UBS pays for AIG to insure it. It made a claim. The claim was paid.

It was a bailout to AIG, but it was not a bailout to UBS. What is so hard about this?

Wells Fargo was bailed out. They make a home mortgage loan. So is the person getting the home mortgage loan being bailed out? Because that would be the logical extension of this argument.

[polichick]

101. It was paid with bailout (taxpayer) funds. Simple as that, as the article said. nt

[Hansel]

105. In your mind it is. Enough said. nt

[polichick]

107. LOL - you can't seriously be arguing that it wasn't paid with bailout funds. nt

[Hansel]

122. I'm seriously arguing that it wasn't a bailout of UBS.

Just like people who have had insurance claimed paid by bank who received TARP money are not receiving a bail out. They are receiving claim money they're entitled to.

The bailout was of AIG and they are supposed to pay the money back. Good luck with that because we're never going to see it. But again, the article in the OP doesn't have anything to do with UBS and the picture does not go with the article. It's supposed to gin up emotions against Obama.

If the best you can do is say that AIG pay their bailout money to honor a claim UBS made, you are kind of stretching it in order to get riled up about Obama golfing with the CEO of UBS.

[polichick]

131. The article didn't say it was a bailout of UBS...

...and nobody else is saying that ~ but it's still a fact that UBS got "bailout funds," meaning taxpayer funds.

[Hansel]

148. Actually it does.

"UBS which, while not a TARP recipient, got $5 billion in bailout funds as an AIG "counterparty.""

[polichick]

193. You'll have to read more carefully. nt

[Hansel]

220. Or maybe you should. nt

[Hannah Bell]

195. it says it received bailout funds. which it did. because aig didn't have the money

to pay off their losing bets on cds's.


AIG's credit default swaps shows rescue skepticism: JPMorgan
Fri Oct 31, 2008

NEW YORK (Reuters) - A rise in credit default swaps on American International Group (AIG.N) debt indicates the market may be skeptical about a government program to support the insurer, JPMorgan said on Friday.

...AIG was extended an $85 billion bridge loan by the government on September 16 as margin calls threatened the firm's solvency. The government extended nearly $38 billion more in another lending agreement earlier this month.

"AIG is burdened by the high cost of the government loan and a difficult market to sell assets necessary to pay down that loan," JPMorgan said.

"The large insurance companies that are potential buyers of AIG's assets are themselves struggling with asset quality issues," the bank

UBS also raised concerns about AIG's ability to sell assets, saying potential buyers are facing capital pressures due to deterioration in the credit and equity markets.. UBS cut its price target on AIG's stock to $1.70 from $5.

AIG shares were up 7.4 percent at $1.75 on Thursday near midday.

(Reporting by Dena Aubin; Editing by Leslie Adler)

[Hannah Bell]

104. the claim was paid with tarp money & would not have been paid without it.

how hard is that?

person getting home mortgage not the same as person getting gov't bailout money to pay off their mortgage when they're effectively bankrupt, sorry.


aig = bankrupt person getting gov't bailout money to pay off their mortgage.

ubs = mortgage holder, receiving gov't bailout money second hand.

gov't bailout money saves both ubs & aig.

[Hansel]

110. Under you logic, yes it is.

Some of the home mortgage loans were made with TARP money. UBS's claim, which they were entitled to receive payment on, could have also been pay with TARP money. They are both customers and both receiving money the company got through TARP.

Another example would be if a person had life insurance policy through a bank that got TARP many which ended up keeping the bank from going under. If the person died after the bank got TARP money are his beneficiaries getting bailed out?

UBS is a customer of AIG. They paid premiums on insurance, they made a claim and they got the payment on the claim that they were entitled to. It is hyperbole to say that they were bailed out. They might not have received the money for their claim if AIG went under, but just because AIG got bailed out and were able to pay the claim that does not mean UBS was "bailed out".

Again, the main point is that the CEO of UBS is not nefarious in any way and has nothing to do with the article. This was a cheap attempt to draw suspicion on Obama and for some it worked.

[Hannah Bell]

112. the payment was made with tarp money, & it's widely acknowledged this is the case.

besides which, there's more dirt under the carpet on the bailout deals, & ubs = big player.

you're blowing smoke.



Senators Asks TARP To Probe AIG Use Of Bailout Cash

The leadership of the Senate Banking Committee urged overseers of the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) today to investigate why American International Group paid back investors in troubled AIG mortgage security offerings on a dollar-for-dollar basis even though the securities had not yet defaulted.

Mr. Dodd said he was very interested in determining why the counterparties to the AIG credit default swaps were paid 100 percent of the insurance AIG had provided to guarantee collateralized debt obligations.

The Goldman Sachs total includes $5.6 billion in payments relating to the company's role as a credit default swaps counterparty, $4.8 billion in payments relating to its role as a securities lending counterparty, and $2.5 billion in credit default swaps collateral postings, AIG has announced.

Deutsche Bank A.G., Frankfurt, Germany, received about $12 billion in support; Barclays P.L.C., London, $8.5 billion; Société Générale S.A., Paris, $7.8 billion; Merrill Lynch & Company Inc., New York, $6.8 billion; Bank of America Corp., Charlotte, N.C., $5.2 billion, and UBS A.G., Zurich, Switzerland, $5 billion.

Under ordinary circumstances, the issuer of a CDS only has to pony up more collateral when its credit rating deteriorates, as AIG was forced to do last September when its troubles began to grow.

AIG problems raising new capital to provide more backing to the counterparties whose collateralized debt obligations it had insured were what led the government to provide aid for the company last fall in exchange for an interest in the company.

Under the data disclosed Sunday, AIG had paid out $120 billion of the $173 billion it has received in federal bailout money to counterparties of its derivatives transactions, including its CDS counterparties, its securities lending operation counterparties, and to municipalities. This includes at least $20 billion to European banks.

[Hansel]

114. I think we're done here. nt

[Hannah Bell]

119. only because you have no case.

[Hansel]

128. LOL. nt

[Hannah Bell]

153. you were done?

Mark Patterson (AKA “the Enforcer”), Geithner’s Chief of Staff and formerly of Goldman-Sachs (see Rubin, Paulson). Patterson strong armed Sen. Dodd into taking out the restrictions on bonuses to AIG and allowed AIG to pay-off lenders at full price such as Goldman-Sachs (see Rubin, Paulson), Citigroup (see Rubin) and UBS (see Gramm).

Sen. Phil Gramm (AKA “The Assassin”): Along with Robert Rubin and Larry Summers, he spearheaded the Senate legislation to kill Glass-Steadman, regulations on trade and accounting and exempted derivatives. While Chairman of the Senate Banking Committee he exacted over 3 billion dollars of contributions to allies in the Government from Wall St. He was in a position to take over as “Don” but failed in the 2008 election. He has since become a lobbyist for… UBS, one of the firms AIG laundered TARP money to pay off.

http://fiegertime.wordpress.com/2009/07/20/record-profi... /

[Hansel]

174. You're quoting Geoffrey Fieger? Again: LOL nt

[Hannah Bell]

177. Senator Snowe also cited the interwoven relationship of UBS and AIG.

UBS has paid $782 million in taxes and penalties for its criminal offenses. Over the weekend, AIG disclosed that it has transferred billions of dollars to financial institutions with which it had a trading relationship in credit default swaps, including $800 million to UBS. Further, AIG paid $1.7 billion of taxpayer dollars to UBS under its securities lending program.

"The Treasury Department needs to take a close look at its cash flows," Senator Snowe continued. "If the Swiss government does not start cooperating on bank secrecy, I see no reason why American taxpayers should be laundering money back to banks that promote tax evasion."

http://snowe.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Pre... .



AIG credit default swaps--who is looking out for whom?
Naked Capitalism's guest poster, Tyler Durden, has an interesting short blurb on AIG's unwind of its credit default swaps (CDS), at "AIG CDS Unwind Goes From Waterfall to a Trickle," May 13, 2009.

Why is this interesting? AIG unwound a trillion or so of its swaps portfolio in an extraordinarily short time, resulting in huge cash drains from AIG that were paid for by good ole American taxpayer money. That money drained straight from AIG over to the big investment banks that were mostly AIG's counterparties on those swaps. So when we bailed out AIG, we were really bailing out big investment banks.

http://ataxingmatter.blogs.com/tax/2009/05/aig-credit-d...

[Hannah Bell]

66. they got 5 billion in payments from aig tarp money.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/190363 .

& payments by the fed = non-transparent.

[Hansel]

77. They did not get TARP money.

They got an insurance payment from AIG. Not the same.


Edited title for clarification.

[Hannah Bell]

90. which aig got from tarp.

[Hansel]

91. AIG is an insurance company.

Companies pay them premiums. The pay claims to companies who pay them premiums. That's what they do. Doesn't matter where the money came from. UBS paid their premiums and they were entitled to make a claim and have it paid.

[Hannah Bell]

94. the gov't gave aig 70 billion in tarp money so that aig had the wherewithall to give 5 billion

of it, 7%, to ubs.

ubs thus got tarp funds at one remove.

presumably aig wouldn't have been able to pay their "premium" without the gov't rescue.

[redqueen]

115. Do you *honestly* not know how much of a strech that is?

I'm gonna start calling you Armstrong FFS.

[Hannah Bell]

123. keep saying it, maybe someone will believe you.

"Under the data disclosed Sunday, AIG had paid out $120 billion of the $173 billion it has received in federal bailout money to counterparties of its derivatives transactions, including its CDS counterparties, its securities lending operation counterparties, and to municipalities. This includes at least $20 billion to European banks."

including 5 billion to ubs.

http://www.property-casualty.com/News/2009/3/Pages/Sena...

[redqueen]

130. That's like saying employers fund drug cartels...

when their employees buy drugs.

[Hannah Bell]

163. not unless the employers & employees are in collusion.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

168. You're accusing Obama of colluding with UBS?

To do what? Defraud the American taxpayer?

[Name removed]

202. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[redqueen]

216. !

[Hannah Bell]

222. not surprising.

[Spazito]

69. +1 n/t

[otohara]

59. Unrecommended Due to Made Up Headline

[redqueen]

63. I'm SHOCKED! SHOCKED that OG would do such a thing!

[omega minimo]

151. "Due to" it's made up like every other DU headline or "Due to" it's true?

It's amazing that people here attribute their own meaning to something -- like a "made up" headline (which is very close to the actual headlines in the OP) and pretend it's some offense or crime instead of it is what it is.

It's an OP headline -- it's not pretending to be an actual news headline. Hopefully your huffiness is not based on that assumption.

Why can't more here discuss these topics without trashing each other and COMPLETELY heading off the rails?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

158. Lulz.

You complain about "trashing each other" while supporting this hit piece.

[WI_DEM]

65. And your sitting in front of a computer.

I think he deserves a vacation.

[Hekate]

67. How dast he take a vacation? I'll bet nobody even gives him a PDB! I'll bet he eats cake!

Oy-yoy-yoy.

Hekate

[MercutioATC]

85. If China had just declared war on the U.S., I'd give you the outrage.

If Obama spent a lot of time on vacation, I'd give you the outrage.

If Congress wasn't on recess, I might even understand some criticism.


The fact is that China HASN'T declared war, Obama DOESN'T spend a lot of time on vacation, and with Congress on recess...coming back to work on health care...now is the MOST RESPONSIBLE time for him to take a break.


Had Obama not been golfing on Monday, what could he have done to prevent banks from "getting bigger"?

Pitiful attempt at "Nero fiddled while Rome burned".

[Egnever]

89. Um Nice hit job but....

Isn't UBS the swiss bank that is cooperating with the IRS and opening their books to expose the offshore accounts that have been used to avoid income taxes?

I would say the decision to do that warrants a round of golf for the president of that bank. Hardly an example of cavorting with bank fat cats IMHO. More like showing respect to a president of a bank that is trying to do the right thing maybe you are right though and Obama should be shunning him instead that would likely go a long way in helping to shed some more light on the abuses of the fat cats hiding their money from the american government to avoid paying their share of their taxes.

[omega minimo]

117. Post 117 - Rec +1 slides into the RecHole. Is any apparent criticism of BO or Banksters verboten?

This is an important story. Perception management is more crucial?

[redqueen]

133. You call this criticism? This is nothing but slime.

Worthy of Rush and his ilk.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

140. Consider the source.

[omega minimo]

152. We always do when you post.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

157. You and femrap, eh?

[omega minimo]

164. Your master baiting is irrelevant

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

165. That's the second or third time you've used the word "irrelevant" in this thread.

You need to expand your vocabulary.

Or at least work better with the one you've got.

[omega minimo]

171. Your posts are irrelevant. Always. No other word for it.

[Hannah Bell]

208. reuters & wa post =sources.

[omega minimo]

141. I am not threatened by the juxtaposition, the awareness or discussion. Suppressing it is scarier.

Are people unable to even handle the connections, the possibilities, the discussion?

I don't see knocking two headlines/articles and a photo into each other to start discussion as "slime" or an indictment, either.

[redqueen]

142. LOL... nobody is "threatened"... they're fucking annoyed.

This BS is garbage and it's embarrassing to see it here, that's it.

[omega minimo]

154. It's an invitation to discussion that devolves immediately into a pile on. That's embarrassing.

Let them go be annoyed somewhere else, if they can't handed news items, facts, informed discussion and openmindedness.

[redqueen]

156. "news"? "facts"? "informed discussion"?

Surely you jest!

[omega minimo]

167. Based on two articles? Sure, why not? If folks weren't threatened, they would discuss the topic

not distract and waste time being oh so offended.

[redqueen]

172. 1) It's been a very rough week. We all need a break.

2) It's Friday.

3) Same reason we toy with trolls... boredom/entertainment "mock the dumbassery" kinda stuff.

[omega minimo]

176. True and true

It's also an avoidance technique. Have a great weekend, redqueen

[redqueen]

179. You too...

slimer.

[omega minimo]

183. youbetcha

slitheryness itself

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

144. I like how you try to play both sides.

You support slime like this, but post maudlin threads about how you "support Barack Obama."

You can't have it both ways.

[omega minimo]

159. I do not "support slime." This OP is not "slime."

I do not "post maudlin threads about how you "support Barack Obama." "

I don't "have it both ways."

This is not a sports event. This is government. This is real life. I support informed discussion. I question the need of some here to prevent informed discussion with petty games and distractions.

Your fabrications are irrelevant.

[Name removed]

160. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

169. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

173. Also, you should probably watch less Star Trek.

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

[onenote]

118. and there is a direct causal relationship. every time Obama gets a birdie

JP Morgan gets bigger.

[scheming daemons]

136. FAIL

not even an especially good fail.

Weak.

[bullwinkle428]

138. HOLY SHIT! I didn't know Obama played left-handed!

[Hansel]

149. What else do you expect from a socialist?

Move over, I'm hiding with you.

[LanternWaste]

181. a lot of people think golf is the same as a knitting-club...

The last I went golfing with my boss and some of his "NICE golf buddies", he wound up buying out their company two months later-- they weren't very happy about it.



I guess a lot of people think golf is the same as a knitting-club.

ed: bizarre typo

[earth mom]

192. Get Real People! Why in the hell is Obama golfing with a bunch of fucking crooks?!

That's what's at the heart of this OP!

Making this about race is just smoke and mirrors.

Wake up DU! We are in a class war!

[AntiFascist]

196. Obama must be in self-preservation mode...

this is his way of showing mainstream Republicans "I'm really one of you", marginalizing the fringe that wants him killed.

[Deja Q]

209. If President Obama told the nation and world to STOP, what might happen?

What if * did that instead?

Then again, if there is to be a new world order*, why drag it out with all the suffering going on?



* just one of many tinfoil idiot theories I learned about on this site...

[defendandprotect]

212. We must have re-regulation of capitalism/financial markets --- Glass Steagall --!!!

[defendandprotect]

213. Vacations and golf are fine --- but 5 hours with UBS . . . ???? Not so good . .!!

[leftofthedial]

219. That's pretty much the problem with America's economy, right in one picture.

"...that's what I have to say about the concentration of wealth. Now watch me drive."



Change.

[pinto]

223. We're locking this.

Thread has gone off the track.