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IMSA Donating Member (87 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 08:58 PM
Original message
Where can I debunk this at?
Page 16: States that if you have insurance at the time of the bill becoming law and change, you will be required to take a similar plan. If that is not available, you will be required to take the gov option!
Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!
Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!
Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)
Page 42: The "Health Choices Commissioner" will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.
Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.
Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.
Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.
Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (example: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)
Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.
Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)
Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens
Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.
Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.
Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No "judicial review" is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.
Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.
Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.
Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.
Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll <>BR Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll
Page 167: Any individual who doesnt' have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.
Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).
Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.
Page 203: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." Yes, it really says that.
Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected."
Page 241: Doctors: no matter what speciality you have, you'll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)
Page 253: Government sets value of doctors' time, their professional judgment, etc.
Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.
Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.
Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!
Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.
Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.
Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited for owning and investing in healthcare companies!
Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.
Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on "community" input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.
Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.
Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc.
Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.
Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).
Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?
Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.
Page 425: Goverment provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.
Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.
Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient's health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.
Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.
Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.
Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.
Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.
Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services.


Thanks

IMSA
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. In the pages of the bill it's referencing, maybe? n/t
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LisaLynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. But that only works if you read it in English,
as John Stewart noted. If you read it in the language of crazed racist idiots, then YMMV. ;)
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'd start with the text of the legislation
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.3200 :

I'm guessing that stuff you posted is some very loose interpretations and just outright lies.

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WorseBeforeBetter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
4. You forgot yer page 432. (n/t)
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lame54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #4
24. that's cause Jon Stewart ripped it out
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yewberry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
5. Check:
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
6. Are you kidding me? Sigh...
Find the text of the bill HR3200 using google, text version.

Use the control-F or "find" feature of your browser to find keywords.

Those words or phrases, ie "advance care planning" will be among passages that will debunk each item.

Debunk one good lie and then tell whomever that if that one item is bullshit then the rest probably is, too.

AND, tell them to send the text, not just meaningless page numbers.

They won't be able to show you the actual language.

Because IT IS NOT THERE.

:patriot:
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we can do it Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:04 PM
Original message
Check Out Please Cut the Crap
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WorseBeforeBetter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
10. If the OP wants to play on DU, s/he is *really* going to have to do better. (n/t)
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
7. here
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
8. Where is this from?
Edited on Sun Aug-23-09 09:08 PM by baldguy
The Insurance Marketplace Standards Association?

Maybe?
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IMSA Donating Member (87 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Ongoing debate on another site
A bunch of Limbaugh listeners and FOX viewers.

IMSA
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. provide a link to this other discussion please
let us know when you post the info provided to you in post #11, we can go over to the other site and see your work.
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IMSA Donating Member (87 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. Other site the argument is going on at.
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. OK, IMSA... Thank you for posting the origin... Now here's a link to the rebuttal.
It's all over, including at Free Republic, archenemy of DU.

It would have been better had you said in your OP where you got it.

I'm posting here the link you used in your rebuttal for others to use.

http://sites.google.com/site/healthcarereformbillanswer... /

:thumbsup:
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
11. Here is a full line-by-line rebuttal.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/ju... -/

It may be the longest chain e-mail we've ever received. A page-by-page analysis of the House health care bill argues that reform will end the health care system as we know it: "Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed! ... Page 42: The 'Health Choices Commissioner' will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. ... Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free health care services."

Most of what the e-mail says is wrong. In fact, it's a clearinghouse of bad information circulating around the Web about proposed health care changes, so we thought it would be helpful to address a bunch of its claims.

To check this e-mail, we read the health care bill ourselves. Yes, it's over 1,000 pages long, but that's not as long as you might think: The document has large margins, so the text only takes up about one third of each page.

We also read the bill's legislative summary, a report published by the House that explains the bill in greater detail.

MUCH MUCH MORE AT THE LINK
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. thanks
they do awesome work over there at the St. Pete times. :toast:
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Mister Ed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. Link didn't work for me but I think this one will:
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
12. Hey, you forgot a few ...
Page 76: Mandatory abortions for non-pregnant women
Page 103: Employers who refuse to sign-on for public option will be waterboarded until they recant their position
Page 218: All patients admitted to hospital more than twice in a lifetime will be sold as galley-slaves
Page 273: Everyone over the age of 30 who seeks medical attention will be euthanized - personally by Obama!
Page 367: Doctors: you are now prohibited from playing at a golf course that is out of your government-approved "network"
Page 399: Death panels, death panels, death panels!

And you might want to take a closer look at Page 494:

People stupid enough to believe this kind of crapola will be deemed mentally incompetent and institutionalized forthwith.
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. *choke*
:rofl:

DU reading rule #1.

No food or beverage in mouth while reading comments to a request to debunk...
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
16. The text in your OP is IDENTICAL to the text in this Free Republic Post by Freeper "BloodOfTyrants".
It is line by line identical.

Right down to the fact that second lines of text occur after the same items Pages 16, 124, 129, and 429 (in my browser).

It is, I believe, identical.

I find that curious.

http://www.freerepublic.com/~bloodoftyrants /

:patriot:

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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Har!

BUSTED.

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WorseBeforeBetter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #16
21. I see that the spiller of tyrannical blood had time to take a Superhero quiz.
I'm actually happy the OP posted this -- it helps to see how these loons "think."
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-24-09 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. I'm glad it was posted, too, but...
I'd prefer that a link had been provided rather than the vague explanation provided.

I'm curious about the Superhero quiz...might have to take it.

It could have some "killer" questions...
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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-23-09 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
18. Have you tried the internet?
I've found that useful for debunking bullshit like that contained in the OP.
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