Are these screamers and gun nuts afraid of Obama or afraid of themselves?

[kentuck]

The last time they were this scared, Bill Clinton was President. And they blew up a Federal Building in Oklahoma City, killing over 150 people, many of them small children and babies.

Now they have gotten their guns out once again and they seem to be begging for us to stop them before they kill again? It's not that they are so afraid of Barack Obama or even, their government, as it is that they are afraid of their own judgement.

Their own political Party has let them down. They have disappointed immensely. After all, if George W Bush could not protect our country or our Constitution, how could a Democrat possibly do it?

They voted for George W Bush. They put their faith in him. And he let them down. Their judgement was terrible. Who can they trust if they cannot even trust themselves anymore? Certainly not the Democratic Party and certainly not Barack Obama.

So they withdraw into their own paranoia and fears. No one can save our country now. Since they and their Party failed so miserably, there is no hope that anyone else could do a better job. They turn to people like Sarah Palin for leadership. It is not that they are afraid of their government so much as it is they are afraid of themselves.

[Arctic Dave]

1. They turned to Sarah Palin and she sold them out faster then you can say "you betcha".

They are like cornered animals.

[villager]

2. the anonymous "un-rec" your thread initially received is, in its way, a confirmation of the OP

n/t

[kentuck]

5. Yep, I suppose you are right...

I get 3 or 4 almost every thread.

[villager]

6. and there've been more since I posted! They hate being called out!

Named and known, as it were....

[madamesilverspurs]

11. Putting anything "pro Obama" in the title

will get you unrecced into oblivion post haste.

That said, great piece, happy to rec.

[villager]

13. it didn't seem necessarily "pro-Obama," just anti rightwing gun nut!

:shrug:

[elocs]

3. Any act of terrible violence that is linked to Republicans and it's over for them. Over.

The vast majority of decent Americans will have had enough and that includes millions who traditionally identify with the Republican Party. Hell, with the increase of the minority population in this country the Republicans have already sealed their future demise by becoming the party of white males. They still kicking and dangerous now, but this may be their last gasp although we must remain vigilant and unafraid.

[SoCalDem]

4. They're not even really "afraid". They are MAD as hell

they have suddenly realized that things are changing.

They probably thought that republicans would rule forever, and now they are coming to grips that "their guy" let them down.. he had 8 long years to "fix all their problems", but he chose not to, and now "the other" folks are in power and with a black man at the top, too.

They are spiteful , little people.

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. That's exactly what Howard Dean said at Netroots last week.

Hey. Are YOU Howard Dean? LOL

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

7. The Oklahoma City bombing was revenge, can we not exploit it.

[kentuck]

8. Revenge for what? Waco?

You like your guns, too? Are you afraid of Obama or angry at him?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

9. This is common knowledge, do your research before posting ignorant shit.

The chief conspirators, Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols, met in 1988 at Fort Benning during basic training for the U.S. Army.<17> Michael Fortier, McVeigh's accomplice, was his Army roommate.<18> The three shared interests in survivalism and held anti-government views including opposition to gun control. They also expressed anger at the federal government's handling of the 1992 Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) standoff with Randy Weaver at Ruby Ridge as well as the Waco Siege—a 1993 51-day standoff between the FBI and Branch Davidian members which ended with the deaths of David Koresh and 75 others.<19> In March 1993, McVeigh visited the Waco site during the standoff, and then again after its conclusion.<20> McVeigh later decided to bomb a federal building as a response to the raids.<8><21><22><23>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing

[kentuck]

10. McVeigh had a lot of sympatizers...

don't you agree?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

12. Not a single mainstream one that I can recall.

[kentuck]

14. But maybe some of the same ones bringing guns to the townhalls?

Maybe? And what will they be looking to revenge?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

15. Unlikely that they would bring firearms out in the open and out of range of the President.

If they were a serious threat to the President the Secret Service they would be in custody as several are right now. I can't speak to the motives, affiliation, intelligence or sanity of those showing up at town halls openly carrying firearms, although I would question all four.

[kentuck]

16. I'm sure Ronald Reagan would back you up.

Hinckley was out in the open and out of range of the President. He was no serious threat. Of course, all gun owners are rational and sane individuals, who would do nothing like shoot the President.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

18. You think Hinckley was openly carrying a firearm? He shot Reagan, not out of range, duh.

[kentuck]

22. Are we to assume that all the weapons that were openly carried

were the only weapons these folks had on them? It would be naive for anyone to think they might also have a concealed weapon or that they might actually resort to violence, being that nothing like that has ever happened in our country before. It was one of the most stupid acts I have ever seen. What were they trying to say? What were they trying to prove? Surely they were trying to make a point? What do you think it was?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

25. How would we know if people were carrying concealed weapons? In regards to your other questions..

I already answered all of them.

[Statistical]

39. WTF? Conceal carry and open carry at the same time?

Really that is what you think the threat is. Look at this gun on my right side... <BLAM> "Fooled you I am left handed and shot you with this concealed weapon on my left".

Nothing like that has ever happen? Are you 9 years old? Are you really saying that nobody ever in the history of the United States ever brought weapons to a protest event?

[kentuck]

40. Emotions are high, people are screaming, calling others Nazis...

and you have no problem bringing an automatic weapon into that environment? Who has the mind of a 9-year old??

[Statistical]

41. I did say that and for the record there were no automatic weapons in the crowd. n/t

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

43. Who had an automatic weapon? Link please.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

20. Dupe.

[MercutioATC]

17. For clarification, who are the "they" you speak of?

Republicans?

Bush voters?

Gun owners?

Palin supporters?


If you're gonna demonize a group of people, at least have the cajones to be specific.

[kentuck]

21. "They" are all of the above but...

but it is usually clarified by the preceding sentence. For example, if the sentence says "they" voted for Bush then the following "they" will refer to the same people unless the subject is changed. I apologize that you had so much difficulty trying to figure out who "they" might have been? I certainly wasn't talking about Obama or his supporters, I can assure you of that. The truth hurts a lot sometimes.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

23. The truth hurts, eh. I guess you are talking about the cajones comment.

[kentuck]

24. Very funny.

Actually I was talking about the penis substitutes that these chicken shits have to carry to events where the President is speaking.

[MercutioATC]

27. You have the gall to call ANYBODY a "nut" while making statements like that???

You just equated any Republican who owns a gun, voted for Bush, and supports Palin with a man who bombed a federal building.

THAT'S nuts.

[kentuck]

28. How many of them have denounced the nuts who took the guns to the townhall?

Very, very few. Yes, I have the gall to say that and you have the gall to defend them??

[MercutioATC]

29. I may not agree with the method, but they were exercising their 2nd Amendment rights.

The fact that they weren't taken into custody (even by the Secret Service) should tell you that they weren't violating any law.


...and since when do reasonable people require others to denounce the actions of an unrelated third party as some test of purity?

[kentuck]

30. Why?

Would they feel the need to exercise their 2nd Amendment right at a townhall where the President is speaking about healthcare? What point were they trying to make? I stick with my original description: gun nuts.

[MercutioATC]

31. Because:

They view "national healthcare" as an example of a government overreaching its Constitutional authority and an attempt to deprive them of their liberties (and, contrary to "access to health care", "liberty" is enumerated as a right in the Constitution).

They respond by exercising two of their Constitutional rights...the right of free speech and the right to bear arms. And, as many believe, the right to bear arms was specified as much to protect us from our own government as to protect us from foreign threats...so a demonstration of this right is especially appropriate.

I'm not saying that I agree with either their views on "Obamacare" or their chosen method of protest...but it's narrow-minded and ignorant to equate them with McVeigh.

[kentuck]

32. That's your opinion.

I disagree. Threats and intimidation are no more free speech than yelling fire in a crowded theater when there is none. To show off your guns in a place where people have come to peaceably assemble is not an exercise of the 2nd Amendment, it is a disturbance of the peace and at worst, terroristic threatening. With each of our rights, 1st and 2nd Amendments included, comes responsibility. In my opinion, it was totally irresponsible and reckless. My freedom to swing my fists stops at the edge of the other person's nose...

[MercutioATC]

35. ...and that's YOUR opinion.

...and while I'll defend to the death your right to state it, I also have the right to express that it's my belief that your opinion is based in fear and ignorance.


These people haven't threatened anybody. To be relative to your "yelling fire in a crowded theater" analogy, they would have had to pointed their guns at somebody and actually threatened them...and they didn't.

Many firearm laws are state-determined. If the state in which a given person resides allows open carry, openly carrying a firearm is NOT inherently threatening. Period.


...which brings me back to my "fear and ignorance" statement. If you're afraid of the mere sight of a firearm and ignorant enough to believe that anybody who carries one legally is an implicit threat to your safety, you're both fearful AND ignorant.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

36. Your bedwetting aside, they didn't threaten anyone.

If some people are intimidated by the mere presence of a holstered firearm then they need to grow a set.

[kentuck]

37. Your name-calling aside...

When you are holding up a huge sign talking about the blood of patriots and tyrants and have a gun strapped to your leg and are standing in the middle of a screaming mob, yes, I think some folks might feel intimidated and threatened? If there had been a group of Arabs, all holding legal weapons, at the townhall, would you have felt threatened or intimidated?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

42. I didn't call you any names. Only a racist would be bothered by your scenario.

People legal carrying firearms doesn't bother me in the slightest.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

34. Well said.

[justinaforjustice]

26. They May Be Aimed At Destabilizing the Country.

The CIA used disruption techniques in Iran to bring down the democratically elected secularist Mossed in 1953, and used similar methods to bring down Allende in Chile in the 1973 coup. These techniques have been widely used by opposionists in Venezuela in the attempt to create chaos and show the Chavez government to be weak and unable to maintain order. It may be that the Birthers, death panelists and armed thugs are part of a similar plan to bring down Obama by right-wing Republicans and their corporate backers. The "functionally retarded" members of these groups are used as pawns by the high level planners.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[GoCubsGo]

38. They are afraid of EVERYTHING

They are afraid of ANYTHING changing. They are afraid of anything that is different: brown people, gays, liberals, Muslims, Jews, atheists, socialists, compact fluorescent light bulbs, recycling, you name it. They are all conservatives, and by definition, they like to keep things the way they are. The ARE afraid of President Obama and their government, as much as they are their own judgement and themselves. They are afraid of everything.