39% of Americans: "Keep Government out of Medicare."

[kpete]

39% of Americans: "Keep Government out of Medicare." w/Poll!
by Jbearlaw

Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 10:41:52 AM PDT

From the I-shit-you-not files comes this gem:

Public Policy Polling did a poll which included the following question:
(question #3)
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/PPP_Release_Nati...

"Do you think the Government should stay out of Medicare?"

The results: 39% said yes, 46% said no, and 15% said they were not sure. That means that a majority of those polled (54%) apparently do not understand that Medicare is in fact a government program.

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/PPP_Release_Nati...

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/8/19/769426/-39-...

[liberal N proud]

1. Goes to show that people have no idea what they are talking about

when it comes to Health care Reform.

[jasi2006]

95. This says it ALL about the US citizens.

Thanks Rush and others for helping dumb down the US to new lows.

[Joe Chi Minh]

131. It's not in the interest of governmetn to have even a half-educated populace. At least,

as they see it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. scratches head, do these idiots realize Medicare IS A GOVERNMENT PROGRAM?

Rhetorical, I know.

[katty]

60. NO, have NO CLUE even as their relatives RELY ON IT

Everyday--IDIOTS

[YOY]

3. Um...isn't Medicare a Governmental Program?

Are these folks that stupid or am I?

[Posteritatis]

7. Seeing that poll's results actually stripped IQ points away from me

So it could be both.

[Hugin]

10. Good thing I didn't read it then...

I have none to spare.

[bdamomma]

11. they just are allergic to facts.

[Canuckistanian]

4. That's a handy statistic

It means that 39% of the people have no fucking clue what's going on with health care in America.

Actually, you could add in the 15% who were "not sure".

[Lone_Star_Dem]

5. Just goes to show the level of ingnorance we're up against.

I wonder what exactly was Public Policy Polling's motivation behind such wording?

[Juche]

6. 56% have at least a bachelors degree

Q14 Which of these categories best describes your
education level? If you have some graduate or
professional schooling after college, press 1. If
you have a bachelor’s degree, press 2. If you
attended some college, including community
college, after high school press 3. If you are a
high school graduate, press 4. If you did not
graduate from high school, press 5.

Post-Graduate Education................................ 35%
Bachelor's Degree .......................................... 21%
Some College ................................................. 28%
High School Grad ........................................... 12%
Didn't graduate from High School ................... 4%

[me b zola]

59. Well cripes. It gets scarier.

No wonder the rest of the world points and laughs at the US.

[malletgirl02]

67. It gets worst

The first time I heard that "keep government off my Medicare" nonsense was when someone on DU posted that an economist, yes someone who is supposedly educated, say that.

[Jackpine Radical]

124. It just dawned on me that "post-gradate education"

may, in the minds of the Booboisie, refer to, like tech college--you know--education you got after you graduated high school.

[phantom power]

8. I think Obama should continue playing 37-dimensional chess...

because the public is clearly up for that.

[Zenlitened]

16. LOL. Yep... subtlety, nuance, a low-key approach. That's what works with Americans today.

[leftstreet]

52. LOL

[SammyWinstonJack]

119. +1

[LoZoccolo]

135. He is president.

You are not.

[LiberalAndProud]

9. I would acquiesce to the request of the 39%, just to see if

they would approve of the outcome. Of course, that would probably be descrimination against teh stupid, but would that be a bad thing? It would cut a few dollars off the deficit, wouldn't it?

I always thought my father was silly, constantly pointing out that we already have "socialized health care" with medicare. Now I understand why he finds that talking point so useful.

[doublethink]

12. I'd be worried about the 15% who said they were 'Not Sure' .....

okay guess you'd have to see the movie ...


Anyway this poll doesn't surprise me in the least bit, thanks for posting.

[anigbrowl]

13. Looks like the Onion was closer to the truth than anyone expected...again

http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/study_38_pe...

Life imitates art, I guess.

[TxRider]

14. Not really..

"That means that a majority of those polled (54%) apparently do not understand that Medicare is in fact a government program."

It means no such thing..

Anyone who would believe most Americans do not know medicare is a government program is a about as gullible as they come.

The only people that wouldn't know are young people not familiar with it.

What it does mean is that people are leary about the government messing with it.

[LeftyFingerPop]

15. Uh...

[doublethink]

17. Them is some twisting in the winds logc you got there Tx. n.t.

[LeftyFingerPop]

20. Have you ever seen the video(s) where...

many "average" people on the street cannot name the vice-President, cannot pick out Australia on a map, etc?

I have no problem believing that a large percentage of Americans do not know that Medicare is a Gov't program.

[Juche]

22. What is your logic that they understand what medicare is

"Do you think the government should stay out of medicare". Medicare is a government funded and administered program. I don't see how there is confusion on the issue.

At town hall meetings it is not uncommon for people over 65 to scream the loudest about socialism and government takeovers of healthcare.

Also, I most people can't name all 3 branches of government, name their senators or representatives, or know how many senators are serving in the senate. So the fact that most don't know what medicare is isn't too outlandish.

[onyourleft]

54. Really? Sixty-five and over? My age group?

Do you have any break down on what age group is screaming the loudest? Just curious.

[Juche]

55. I can give you info on fox news and talk radio listeners

The people who get info from right wing media outlets are going to be more likely to believe phony arguments against healthcare reform. However it is hard to find facts on the average age of the protesters, but if you look at youtube videos many seem fairly old, and even though there were some young ones most seemed over 50.

Average age of a fox news viewer - 65
Average age of a right wing talk radio listener - 67

http://www.pensitoreview.com/2009/05/05/average-age-of-... /

This isn't an attack on your generation or anything though. But the reality is the average listener to right wing propaganda on healthcare is old enough to have medicare. Rachel Maddow recently talked about a study where Fox News viewers were more likely to think Obama wanted a 'government takeover of healthcare' than viewers of CNN and MSNBC. However the fact that the average Fox viewer is old enough to qualify for medicare seems to go over these wingnuts heads.

[onyourleft]

57. Thank you.

I have looked for a break down on the average age of the dissenters at the health care meetings and could not find anything.

I really did not take it as an attack on my age group. I found your comment regarding naming the three branches of government disturbing as it is my age group that was required to take Civics, etc., in high school. My understanding is that Civics is no longer a requirement and would have thought your comment more applicable to a younger demographic.

[Juche]

62. I took civics in high school

It was still required, and I graduated high school in 1997.

Crystallized intelligence (as opposed to fluid intelligence which is about pattern recognition and learning abilities) is the intelligence that comes from age and experience (aka wisdom) and it grows with age. So it is very sad to see all these people in their 70s who are on medicare who don't want a government takeover of their healthcare.

[onyourleft]

66. It's not just sad...

...it is mind boggling.

Glad to hear that you still have to take a Civics class. My understanding is that Civics is now mostly combined with Social Studies, giving a watered-down version of what we took as a free-standing Civics class, complete with an end-of-year exam that bore heavily on whether or not one graduated (I did not attend any school in this state). But, be that as it may, it would seem a good portion of my demographic retained very little of what they learned.

I found it interesting that in 2001 the New Hampshire Senate voted down a bill that would require a mandatory Civics class in high school.

[malletgirl02]

69. Civics

High school Civics in my state, is called US government. It is a required class, and I graduated in 2002.

[Zix]

58. They might know that Medicare is a government programme and prefer it not to be.

Polls are a good way, sometimes, of finding out what people think, but a very bad way of finding out what people *know*.

[fasttense]

90. I'm nearing that magical age of 65.

I asked my mother the other day when do you wake up suddenly stupid because you're old? When do you get so old any scam artist on the phone can con you out of your money? When do you get so old and stupid that all you do is watch Fox Fake News? When do you get so dumb and old that you vote Republicon because they wont change anything? She said she didn't know but she's 78 and it hasn't happened to her yet.

[redqueen]

25. !

[dysfunctional press]

32. that's how i would interpret the results as well.

the vast majority understand that it's a government program- but they like it just how it is, thank-you very much- and don't want the government tinkering with it as part of the ongoing healthcare debate.

[anigbrowl]

79. 'keep govt out of medicare' =/= 'govt should leave medicare alone'

I agree it's open to interpretation, but you and the poster above seem to be in a distinct minority with this optimistic view. I'm sad to say I think people really are that stupid.

[dysfunctional press]

99. no- people on this side WANT them to be that stupid...

some of them are, but most of them aren't.

[gatorboy]

40. Yes, really...

There are two women that are currently working in my office that have no idea that Medicare is a government program.. And they use it!

[deep1]

77. Boy you look stupid...........

What a faulty logic. Stop trying to play it off, you look even more dumb.

"What it does mean is that people are leary about the government messing with it".

Wrong on all levels.

[mwb970]

85. Say what now?

Your silly comment makes no sense. Lots of Americans are extremely ignorant about every aspect of our government. It is no stretch at all to believe that Americans know nothing about Medicare. Have you ever seen "Jaywalking"?

Oh, and thanks for calling me "gullible".

[patrice]

104. I agree, it's indeterminant whether they know or not that Medicare = Government

[stanwyck]

117. MSNBC posted a poll showing that 76% of Republican

respondents did not realize that Medicare is a government program. (On Keith's show last night). I doubt that these were all "young people". The guy holding up the sign saying "Keep the Government out of my Medicate" at the town hall meeting was an old white guy. Big surprise.
The Republican Party really has become the party of the intellectually challenged.

[SammyWinstonJack]

122. Huh?

[Ikonoklast]

137. So, using your own logic, 54% of those polled were 'young people'.

Spinning like a top, you are.

[SPedigrees]

18. That's why health care reform advocates need to run tv ads.

They need to explain this in 20 second sound bites, over and over. Govt programs = roads, schools, medicare, police and fire services, social security. Adverts need to stress "These are programs that benefit YOU, the people, not some triple billionnaire CEO of a private insurance company."

A good analogy for the public option is this: If you like your private health insurance, keep it. If you dislike govt run institutions, keep your private insurance in place of the public option; and when you need to mail a package use private carriers UPS or Fed-Ex instead of the govt run postal service.

[Kansas Wyatt]

19. Further proof that 'Warning Signs' to protect stupid people from themselves...

Isn't such a great idea.

[blondeatlast]

21. That would be funny if it weren't so tragic. nt

[CTD]

23. If you dig into the crosstabs, 62% of Republicans said yes.

I'm not making this up.

[Solly Mack]

24. Allrighty then

damn

[olegramps]

26. It is hard to believe. But, given the demonstrations by the Repubs maybe it is understandable.

[phantom power]

38. When Team A shows up for the game, and Team B doesn't....

Team A wins by default, no matter how ridiculous their game is.

[berni_mccoy]

27. Sad.

[bullwinkle428]

28. Jesus, this country can show itself to be so fucking stupid at times.

If moving to another country wasn't such a virtual impossibility, I'd be packing my bags yesterday.

Maybe that's a blessing in disguise - a "virtual wall" of sorts, that forces that rational and sane to make their voices heard and prevent it from turning into a giant asylum.

[dysfunctional press]

29. the question as asked isn't exactly a fair one-

"Do you think the Government should stay out of Medicare?"

could be interpreted as "do you think that the government should leave medicare just as it is?", meaning that although someone is fully aware that medicare is a government program, they think that it should be left alone, and kept out of the current healthcare debate.

while i fully agree that there may be some people who don't fully understand it, i don't agree that it's anywhere near 54%.

[MannyGoldstein]

30. Time To Move To A First-World Country

Nothing this stupid can survive long.

[Altoid_Cyclist]

113. My sister left the US during Reagan's second term.

She has lived in Germany for about 22 years and even though it has it's faults, she says that it looks better every time she reads about or sees some of the things going on here. Luckily she lives in a small village and a lot of her neighbors have come to understand that a lot of Americans are like her and we're not all morons like the Bushes, Reagan, Birthers... etc.

[lazyriver]

31. Once again, I find myself weeping for my country. I wonder how

many of those polled would know who won whatever the latest reality tv fad show is.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[AlinPA]

34. America has more stupid people than anywhere on earth.

[CreekDog]

35. My congresswoman kept saying "Medicare is a SINGLE PAYER government run program" over and over again

during her telephone town hall on health care.

She's Jackie Speier CA-12 (San Francisco and San Mateo counties)

[seafan]

50. You are fortunate, because she is correct. n/t

[inna]

36. holy shit. bookmarked.

[Last Stand]

37. Figure 33% always say government should stay out of everything

and really only a small percentage of the rest voted stupid. It is actually a good showing for the Repukes considering it is a poll that is designed to strike at the heart of their anti-gov platform. This is the same 33% that clung to BushCo and tried to rationalize continued approval.

Am I the only one who sees this as possibly a good sign, or have I just dropped my expectations that much?

Ask these same people if the government should have intervened when Dick Cheney increased administrative costs of Medicare exponentially when he privatized it a few years ago. Ask these same tax-hating Americans if they know how much of a drain on their budget Medicare has become since the Repukes reformed it. Ask them if they know where all their Medicare money went.

Go 'head. Ask 'em.

[RainDog]

39. The same percentage shows all the time with "I'm too stupid to vote" answers

Honestly.

[Kerrytravelers]

41. I had to read that headline a couple of times to wrap my brain around it.

Oy... my head hurts.

[wroberts189]

42. knr

[KansDem]

43. This is why our democracy is so fragile...

I might suggest this question be asked of everyone before entering the voting booth each election:

True or False: Medicare is a government program

If the "voter" answers "false," then show them the door...

This isn't about political parties or philosophies; it's about gross ignorance and has no place in a democracy...

[yurbud]

44. vote this up on digg, reddit (already posted there, just needs votes) so more see it LINKS

http://digg.com/political_opinion/54_don_t_seem_to_know...

reddit is getting hit with down votes and GOP spinners:

http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/9c60o/54_of_a... /

Climbing fast on buzzflash!

http://buzzflash.net/story.php?id=1031049

[Kaleko]

71. Dugg. Thanks for the links!

[Zynx]

45. Bwah?!

Goddamn it.

[FarCenter]

46. Medicare's branding as a US Government program is pathetically weak

I've just reviewed correspondence with Medicare.

The most frequent communication is the "Medicare Summary Notice". This is identified as coming from CMS Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. There is no mention of either the US Government or Health and Human Services. The Medicare Summary notice explains how they processed your care giver's claim. It does say that if you have a change of address, contact Social Security and an 800 number.

I think that the CMSs are not government operations, but are instead outsourced to private companies, some of which may be insurance companies with claims processing expertise and systems. To dispute how they processed a claim, mine says to contact Highmark Medicare Services.

Other pieces of correspondence do mention the United States Government and/or the Health and Human Service. For example, one piece says "This information is being collected under contract with the United States Department of Health and Human Services ...".

All Medicare, Medicaid and Social Services correpondence should be identified clearly with the US government by use of prominent logos and text. Otherwise, why would people know?

---

http://www.highmarkmedicareservices.com/index.html
Highmark Medicare Services is the Part A Medicare Administrative Contractor (MAC) for Delaware (DE), New Jersey (NJ), Pennsylvania (PA), Maryland (MD) and the District of Columbia (DC), and the Part B MAC for Pennsylvania (PA), New Jersey (NJ), Maryland (MD), Delaware (DE) and the District of Columbia Metropolitan Area (DCMA). For Part B services, A/B MAC Jurisdiction 12 includes the Counties of Arlington and Fairfax in Virginia and the City of Alexandria in Virginia. Services for the remainder of the state of Virginia will be covered under A/B MAC Jurisdiction 11. Learn more about us.

They are the Blue Cross Blue Shield company for much of Pennsylvania
https://www.highmark.com/hmk2/about/corpprofile/index.s...

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

47. It is official, America has been dumbed down.

[Parker CA]

48. Idiocracy, here we come!! Un. Freakin. Believable. Teh stupid is strong in these fools.

[DefenseLawyer]

101. Brawndo is our only hope.

President Comacho: So you smart, eh?
Joe: (mutters)
President Comacho: I thought your head would be bigger.

[colinmom71]

107. "It's got electrolytes."

http://www.brawndo.com/

[HughBeaumont]

49. Real Life Celebrity Jeopardy contestants, hosted by Will Ferrell.

"Tell you what, just write a number. ANY number, and you WIN."

[Gormy Cuss]

51. Perfect example of people not listening to the question.

As someone who has conducted public polling surveys this doesn't surprise me at all. That's one of the many reasons why single, terse question polling especially with self-administered surveys can produce such off the wall results.

This question was designed to test knowledge or attention to the term Medicare, not to test attitudes about health care reform, and it performed well in that regard.


Oh and Q. 14

(Which of these categories best describes your
education level? If you have some graduate or
professional schooling after college, press 1. If
you have a bachelor’s degree, press 2. If you
attended some college, including community
college, after high school press 3. If you are a
high school graduate, press 4. If you did not
graduate from high school, press 5.)

elicited a response that 35% had post-bachelor's level school because the term "professional schooling" was used without giving examples like "law school." I've tested enough educational attainment questions to suspect that at least half of the people choosing this answer thought it meant trade and technical school training that didn't require prior college degrees as a prerequisite.

eta: to understand how out of whack that 35% claiming post-bachelor's number is, the most recent census estimate released earlier this year shows only 29% of adults over age 25 have completed college.

[Speck Tater]

53. I've said it before: The human race is collectively too stupid to survive extinction. nt

[Altoid_Cyclist]

115. Human race.....doomed.

Whenever something like this arises, I call out.. Human Race and she replies..Doomed. Sad, but all too true I believe.

[xocet]

136. Interesting...

In your statement, the level of intelligence doesn't matter: extinction by definition is a finalized process. Your post is ironically funny in a broken sort of way.

Did you write for Steven Wright? Either way, thanks for the amusing remark.

[LaPera]

56. Now these are the true "morans"!!

[neverforget]

61. To the 39%:

[CanonRay]

63. Serously. How are we going to survive as a nation with these dimwits.

I mean, 39%!!!! I don't see how we can make it pulling these fools along.

[mnhtnbb]

64. Americans are stupid. Really stupid. Remember the headline in 2004?

How could so many people be so stupid? (Bush voters)

[mwb970]

86. This one?

[mnhtnbb]

110. That's the one!

[Deja Q]

65. Well, it's a government program, but if they say "keep out of medicare" but otherwise hate socialism

then they need to take the appropriate drug to restore the ability to think.

[Jennicut]

68. this is clearly a facepalm moment. Why so stupid, some American people?

[tj2001]

70. They think it's "like some kind of federal program"???

WTF.

[MellowDem]

72. It's a bad question...

that tells us nothing at all. The question should have been... "is Medicare a government program?"

This question allows you to use your opinion on it. If you don't like Medicare, you might put yes, even though you know its a government program (and that is in fact why you oppose it). It also probably confused a lot of people, considering the question is in and of itself false and there is no answer choice that would be a "correct" answer. It's a horribly stupid question and I would expect better of PPP.

[PerpetuallyDazed]

82. I completely agree...

Really bad question. You certainly have those "starve the beast" conservatives out there who know fully well what Medicare is and might snarkily answer this poll question that way.

[and-justice-for-all]

73. Is this from the Onion? Because if that is true, that is really fucking sad..nt

[and-justice-for-all]

74. I am going to pose this same poll question on my local papers forum..

it will be Hilarius to see how many dip shits select YES!

[dysfunctional press]

100. you should at least ask the question fairly-

"is medicare a government-run program?" would be the honest and straightforward way of asking.

"should goverment stay out of medicare" can easily be interpreted to mean- "although medicare is a government progam, should it be included as part of the healthcare overhaul"

[and-justice-for-all]

139. Oh no, I wanna see how much stupid there is...

its a trick question.

I know the it is a Government ran program and I want to see how stupid they are.

[dysfunctional press]

142. but it doesn't demonstrate any such thing...

the way that the question is phrased- it can easily be interpreted in different ways by different people, and doesn't demonstrate at all that people aren't aware of medicare being a government program.
the only stupid people are the ones who think that it's a legitimate question as worded.

[Octafish]

75. Fox viewers.

Limbaugh listeners.

Sorry, Charlies.

[progressoid]

76. ...

[Sirveri]

78. This question doesn't even make sense. I might answer yes to it.

Do I want the government to currently overhaul medicare? Not really, though I'm not 100% familiar with it. That said, because I KNOW that medicare is a government run health care program, what the heck is the question actually asking me? Is it asking me if the government should change how medicare currently operates, or is it simply asking me if I'm an idiot who doesn't know the government runs medicare?

[andym]

80. Someone should do a more direct survey: Is medicare a government program? n/t

[cleverusername]

81. Ya can't cure stupid

Understanding FAIL

Ya can't cure stupid

[Mithreal]

83. Sad. nt

[WVRICK13]

84. I Now Know How It Feels

to live in the worlds most ignorant country. Please tell me Americans are not this dumb. PLEASE!

[Vinca]

87. Has such a large chunk of our country always been this stupid?

There's a real nation of Jaywalkers out there.

[PADemD]

94. Fools

Yes

http://www.twainquotes.com/Fool.html

[Libertas1776]

88. Let me get

this straight, 54% of people do not realize Medicare is a government program?
Hmm, let me try and comprehend that
























































Well...I tried.

[ShortnFiery]

89. The Corporate Media Whores have turned some vulnerable people into IMBECILES.

[malaise]

93. Ding ding

We have a winner

[4dsc]

91. Looks like they polled the GOP base...

To funny..

[joshdawg]

97. Yeah, I was about to say the same thing

Those 39 percenters are all republicans.

[malaise]

92. Question 3 is part of the problem

Medicare is government run so it's an asinine question. Apparently the people who wrote the questions are as uninformed as those who answered. Why would you deliberately set out to seek an answer to a lie?

[theHandpuppet]

96. Yes, Virginia, 39% of Americans really ARE that dumb

Home of the free, the brave and the embarrassingly stupid.

[DailyGrind51]

98. "We" assume too much about the knowledge of others when we frame our issues.

The average American is clueless concerning those things affecting them. I live in a city that cares more about its sports teams than how their city is run.

[barbtries]

102. lol

the dumbing down of america has been quite successful i see.

[seabeckind]

103. This poll tells us nothing about the intelligence

of the people who took the poll. To think otherwise is foolish. The questions in the poll are flawed and the reason they are flawed is the same reason the results are flawed. Does that make sense? Probably not.

The person doing the questions has a bias that was apparent in the question and elicited a response that reinforced that bias. For example, there was question "Do you support or oppose President Obama’s health care plan"? Ignoring the elicited bias in the question by using the name, the question was asked at a time when there was an indication that Obama was backing off the public option. Because I am in favor of single payer foremost and accepting of a STRONG public option as a compromise, my response would have been oppose -- for entirely a different reason behind the purpose for the question but still putting me in that category.

The same response I have when you ask if I approve of his handling of the issue. I want a stronger, more firm handling.

A very large percentage of repubs believe in small gov't -- no matter how misinformed they are. That bias would come out in the framing of the question.

Doing polls is very difficult. Everybody has a bias. And that 3.3% MOE? Bullshit...that's a statistical margin only. Poll framers are primarily statisticians and do not consider implications or complications.

Then again, as a confirmed paranoid, perhaps the poll was meant as a way to reinforce the mistaken belief that 39% of people are stupid? Make that 39% think the elites think they are stupid. Half the reason they hate liberals is because liberals think they're smarter than everyone else. Maybe the result is exactly what the framer wanted and he didn't care about the numbers. Especially when you take the questions in totality. And then doing the fancy charts and graphs? Smoke screen.

(on edit) Not all push polls are obvious push polls. And not all polls have a purpose of finding opinions but rather forcing them.

[paparush]

105. Keep Morans out of Polls nt

[Echo In Light]

106. Embarrassed to be American n/t

[kentuck]

108. And 38.7% of them are the birthers, deathers, and the gun nuts...

Nobody knows where the other .03 percent is coming from??

[WI_DEM]

109. There are a lot of dumb people in this country.

[LynnTheDem]

111. How is it possible for so many Americans to be so deeply stupid???

I truly thought the george w. bush shit was a one-off. An unfortunate fluke.

Apparently not.


I wish these 39% stupid MFers would realize how the entire rest of the world is standing with dropped jaws, stunned at the amazingly deep stupidity of so many Americans.

It's fuckin' embarrassing.

[harun]

112. I think a lot of it is because of the Corporate Media on telivision.

But people watch that crap voluntarily, so the real fault is there own.

[panzerfaust]

114. That is why they will win in the end

[tclambert]

116. It reminds me of George W. Bush on Social Security:

"They want the federal government controlling the Social Security like it’s some kind of federal program."

[Piewhacket]

118. LOL. You got 'em kpete, with a swift kick to the nits! n/t

[Javaman]

120. Never underestimate the stupidity of the general public. nt

[moriah]

121. I think our nation has the dumb. n/t

[Politicub]

123. OMG - that is insane

Where does the 39% think medicare comes from? Just nuts.

[ramapo]

125. And you are surprised?

Just more proof that the United States is home to a majority of the world's idiots and morons.

[sarge43]

126. Can you say push poll? Sure you can. n/t

[ProgressiveFool]

127. ouch, I almost hurt myself with that facepalm /nt

[tomm2thumbs]

128. this oughta be a T-shirt - make Congress wear it

[Overseas]

129. Also shows how foolish it was not to start with Single Payer-- Medicare for All

as the Democrats' preferred plan.

How much stronger would their argument had been if they'd said we are committed to opening up Medicare to All. That's the public option we will not give up.

People who are satisfied with their current plans can keep them. But since we know privatized companies need to serve their shareholders first, we'll regulate the insurance companies so they will all have to provide better service. They'll all be required to cover everyone who applies, without pre-existing condition exclusions or dropping people who get ill.

Medicare for All who want it -- that's our public option. No fifty pages of plans to wade through. We like Medicare because it is a MIXTURE of public and private systems. Medical services are PRIVATELY owned and delivered-- between you and your doctors of choice. The payment and cost controls are publicly administered, as Medicare and the Single Payer system in Canada have been doing for decades.

We have a moral imperative to cover the 47 million uninsured and make sure no one goes bankrupt due to medical bills.

Sorry Republicans, we gave the private Pay-to-Play medical care over a decade to prove its case and it has failed miserably.

We can no longer ignore the millions of people who need help.

[GinaMaria]

130. How do you reach people like this?

Maybe reasonable statements are not getting through because they don't share the same reality as the rest of us

[sheldon]

132. The percentage of republicans asked that said yes

Was a lot higher.
Among Republicans, 62% say the government should stay out of Medicare
Democrats: 24%

[Rottenmac]

133. ***facepalm*** followed by a ***headdesk*** (n/t)

[Alcibiades]

134. These sorts of questions really measure the extent to which

folks have little information. To be fair, folks assume that a question has a legitimate premise, the premise of this being that the government is somehow not involved in Medicare already. Political scientists have years of data showing that folks know little about politics to begin with: this kind of question taxes their already scarce informational resources, which is also why you have such a high "don't know" response.

The instrument seems to be nothing more than a measure of the ignorance of the respondents. There are also a number of problems in interpreting the data from a question on who you voted for in the last presidential election that does not include the option "nobody, I didn't vote." You're also going to get more measurement error with an instrument administered in this way, rather than one administered by an actual person. Anyway, if you look at the crosstabs on the 2008 vote v the medicare question, you see that folks answered in a way that appears to conform to their ideological preferences. Even 20% of Obama voters were confused by this question, whereas the 62% of McCain respondents who answered "yes" are simply acting on a cue that is triggered by the words "government" and "stay out of." It may even be that some of these folks oppose Medicare itself.

While I think it's great to soak and poke, this really seems valid only as a measure of ignorance, not the actual policy preferences of respondents.

[seabeckind]

138. Good luck on trying to make this point

Around 10 people, me included, have tried to make the point that the poll is flawed. Most would rather believe their bias that all who oppose the issue are ignorant rather than they believe a nuance that isn't possible to express using the question that is asked.

And talking to a human in the poll doesn't help if there's no way to indicate it in the answer.

[Alcibiades]

141. If you're trying to measure ignorance

it's best to use a question that does not rely on ideological cues. People who have very little knowledge about politics are capable of responding to ideological questions in a coherent way, not because they actually know anything, but because elites have effectively told them what to say. If anything, this question actually understates the level of political ignorance of the American people.

One question I happen to like is from the Annenberg Public Policy Center:

"Do you know if it was the intention of the “founding fathers” to have the president, Congress, and the Supreme Court have different but equal powers, or was it that the founding fathers intended each branch to have a lot of power, but the president to have the final say?"

This question actually goes to a number of important political issues today, so if you don't understand it, you cannot make informed choices about public policy. The answer is not obvious: the answer is either that the branches are equal, or that the framers intended Congress to be the "first branch" of government with the greatest power (the answer I think is actually right but not even given as an option in the question). The response that the President is intended to have the "final say" is simply wrong, given the framers' skepticism regarding executive authority and their desire to avoid creating an elected king. That this answer is wrong should be obvious to anyone with any understanding of the Constitution, or even a rudimentary understanding of the concerns that animated the political debate during and after the Revolutionary War. It also is fairly low salience ideologically: you cannot simply give the response you have heard Glenn Beck give, because he never addresses this question in these terms, rendering knee-jerk responses to ideological language cues useless.

35% of Americans say that the President should have "the final say." Another 7% admit that they don't know, and 1% refuse to answer the question, which brings us to 43%. That's the problem with ideological questions in measuring ignorance: most people use ideology as a heuristic method to correctly guess answers to political questions in a way they think comports with their own values. Without this crutch, we see that an alarming proportion of the American people are incapable of thinking about politics at all, even when it comes to something that they probably did learn in 9th grade civics.

[Nikki Stone1]

140. OK, Bill Maher is right. Americans ARE stupid.

At least a good portion of them.

[tclambert]

144. "Plan 9 from Outer Space" got it right. Earth humans are stupid.

The actual quote from the alien commander: "You of Earth are stupid! STUPID!"

Why pick on only Americans? In fact, this may really scare you, Americans are smarter than the average Earth human. Face it, your planet is infested with talking monkeys.

[RagAss]

143. Fucktard America !