Flame away.

[LeftyFingerPop]

I am going to get flamed here...badly....but I must get this off my chest.

Some pertinent history...I am of Italian descent. I have been called "wop" "greaseball" "dago", etc. my entire life. I have never used the "N" word. I have never called anyone a "ho". I try to treat people as I would want to be treated.

What I have to say...I think that Don Imus tends to act like an asshole. I think that what he said was wrong. But I also think that because someone acts like an asshole does not necessarily make them one. I think that people can say racist things without being a racist. I think that smart people can say dumb things.

I listened to the context in which his comments were made. He was making a joke. A nasty, hurtful, stupid joke. But, was his INTENT to hurt? I do not think so. I also do not believe he is a racist.

The man apologized. He needs to go further. He needs to speak personally to the Rutgers women. He needs to bare his soul to them, and then THEY need to decide if they can forgive him. THEY need to be given some air time to discuss how they feel about the his terrible insult.

AND THEN WE NEED TO MOVE ON. He should not have lost his job over this. After all, if we as a nation are truly outraged over what he said, this problem will be taken care of naturally...we will not listen to him (I do not), advertising dollars will fall as fast as his ratings, and he will eventually fade away anyway.

PEOPLE WILL ALWAYS SAY NASTY, STUPID THINGS. We cannot change that. What we can do is focus on what is important...like the horrible deaths and injuries being incurred by the minute in this war of aggression.

[soothsayer]

1. he needs to bare his soul to them? LOL. I'm already at 'time to move

on.'

[Wickerman]

2. when people say racist things they perpetuate racism

Being a carrier of racism would, in my mind, make one racist.

[Make7]

3. Welcome to DU. ( n/t )

[matt819]

4. Read Bob Herbert's column in the NYT for another take

It's one of their paid services, but try to track it down anyway. He addresses these issues - http://select.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/opinion/12herbert....

[VelmaD]

5. he has done this kind of shit repeatedly

This is not a first offense.

And actually how a person acts pretty muchs defines who and what they are. If you act like an asshole...you're an asshole. If you say racist and sexist things...guess what, that makes you a racist and a sexist.

And frankly, I don't think the women at Rutger's should meet with him. They are in no way required to be the vessels for his redemption.

As for Imus' intent...his intent was to make other assholes like him laugh at the expense of others. That right there pretty much defines asshole for me.

[Dhalgren]

6. The majority of his main advertisers did pull their accounts,

that's why he is in trouble. When the public began to express their disgust with his long history of racist and misogynist statements and "humor", his advertisers pull their support. This is how it is suppose to work. The public expresses itself and the advertisers respond.

[southpaw]

11. What I'd like to see...

is these same corporations that have pulled their advertising from Imus' shows do the same to BET, Comedy Central, MTV/VH1, rap and hip-hop radio and any other media outlet that plays music or comedy that features the 'N' word, 'ho' or 'bitch'...

but you know what? It ain't gonna happen.

[Dhalgren]

15. Because there is not enough public comment against those venues,

if there were then the advertisers would respond. That is why Rush the Pig Boy is still on the air. His right-wing advertisers cater to the ditto-heads and it works out fine for them. Imus had a more enlightened audience (for whatever reason) and they would not support his repeated racist and sexist blather. If the people who listen to or watched the various entities on your list began to complain and threaten to stop watching/listening/buying you'd see those get canned, too.

[southpaw]

30. Exactly...

The advertisers aren't running away from Imus because of what he said, but because of the public backlash to what he said.

All this sturm und drang could prove to be worthwhile if it leads to less tolerance for such bigoted, sexist language in other contexts... and it may yet. But I doubt it.

Imus may get his just desserts, but Fifty Cent, Snoop Dogg, Chris Rock et al will, doubtless, continue to grow fat at the racist/sexist trough.

[Dhalgren]

44. You are probably right. And as I said to my son last night as we were

discussing this, Imus isn't the worst offender, but he is an offender. We can't wait to deal with these people in order of their offensiveness; we have to deal with the ones we get the opportunity to deal with. Just because a murderer gets away doesn't mean you have to turn the pick-pockets loose. I wish that there was much more direct public/advertiser/media outlet interaction to regulate the hate on air. If a private individual wants to spend his/her own money to attend a show by hateful, racist, sexist miscreants, then fine, that his/her business; but if I want to picket the theater or form boycotts of the performers and their venue, then that is fine, too.

[illinoisprogressive]

7. As a frenchperson I have been called all names in the past 5 years

but, I see the Imus thing as the straw that broke the camel's back. However the media ignores the 800 pound elephant in the room. it's not Imus or rap. This all began as the rise of hate radio and the great polarizing effects came into being. The rise of the coulters who dare readers to murder democrats and the Hannity's and Limbaughs.
What about these people with Halfrican that they called Obama. That is just as racist as what Imus said.
I agree we need to move past this but, we also need to open up the discussion of race and hate and what has been the mark of this era. We began after katrina then swept it back under the rug.

[Lil Missy]

8. If anything, he has MORE of a responsibility as a public figure to watch what the fuck he says.

Racial slurs are just not funny. Period.

[tanyev]

9. Imus can say whatever outrageous crap he wants.

But no one is obligated to pay him to do so.

[mondo joe]

10. That's a lesson Bill Maher, the Dixie Chicks and a number of reporters critical of Bush

have learned in recent years.

[plasticsundance]

12. Imus is a good man

He does more for the community than does the self-serving Al Sharpton, who is a charlatan. I disagree with Imus on an array of issues, but I recognize that he has a good heart. Imus was a Bush supporter that started attacking the Bush Administration, and the Repug operatives used Sharpton to get him off the air. This is why you won't dare see Sharpton go after Rush, Hannity, Beck with the same zeal.

Those here who think this is a victory for race relations are seriously deluded. Imus even offered to do more on his show in the future to start a dialogue about race relations, but Sharpton has no interest in that, because it doesn't profit his bottom line.

[Buzz Clik]

14. "Imus does more for the community than does Al Sharpton." Fascinating

Sharpton is an opportunistic pop figure. His contribution to the "community" is bringing awareness to certain issues. I doubt that he ever solves any problems.

So, what does Imus contribute beyond that? Other than flapping his gums, does he do anything at all?

I have never heard Imus's show. I wouldn't know where or when to access it. But, he is a blight. If you want to keep him around, write your letters and hold your breath. But, pardon me while I puke.

[IronScorpio5]

21. nuff said?

1. Raised over $100 million for SIDs and kids with Cancer of all races

2. Controlled/Solved a serious personal problem, like his alcoholism, and went on to build a very successful career.

3. Singlehandedly stopped Santorum and other Repukes from passing legislation that would have held harmless drug companies against lawsuits related to children's vaccines of all races

4. Singlehandedly got congress to raise the death benefit for soldiers of all races from thousands to half a million

5. Had the bully pulpit and chose to raise awareness and held congressmen accountable for Walter Reed, where there were mistreated soldiers of all races

6. Created a line of environmental cleaning products where 100% of profit goes to kids with cancer - OF ALL RACES

7. Created a ranch where kids of all races with cancer can go and forget they have a disease

8. Offered to raise funds for sickle cell anemia - because the government only allotted a measly $20 million ? Did this yesterday AND had done it before this incident.

9. Had the bully pulpit and chose to raise awareness on the horrible treatment of Katrina victims of all races.


feel free to c/p this

[Saturday]

28. Thank you IronScorpio5. n/t

[Buzz Clik]

33. LOL!

Sure. Whatever.

I'm sorry that you can't listen to his bullshit and that we are forced to put up with you instead.

Seriously, dude, even you must think this is funny:

3. Singlehandedly stopped Santorum and other Repukes from passing legislation that would have held harmless drug companies against lawsuits related to children's vaccines of all races

4. Singlehandedly got congress to raise the death benefit for soldiers of all races from thousands to half a million

And your stuff about his race sensitivity is hilarious. If he's so open minded, why does he have to keep cycling through this crap? This isn't the first time he made horrible racial slurs, nor is it the second.

I hope for your sake and ours that Imus is accessible to you very, very soon.

[Firepit 462]

49. LOL!

What about the rest of the information in that post you are responding too? Way to pick and choose parts of a discussion to defend your position, without having to be bothered by the complete story.

You back up your response using approx 22% of the information given and then step up on your high horse, who is standing on a soap box and complain about having to put up with him/her?

Seriously "dude" you are the funny one.

[Buzz Clik]

54. If ANY of that post was bullshit, it isn't "picking and choosing"

Out of all those points that clearly demonstrate that Don Imus will be sitting on Jesus's lap in heaven someday, I nailed the two that were the most ridiculous. Really, the "singlehandedly" part was a laugh riot -- Don Imus sure has great Congressional clout for a recovering/lapsed/recovering/lapsed addict/alcoholic.

But, please, no more tales of what a hero Imus is. It's making me weep.

[Firepit 462]

66. Your attempt,

at justifing your CHERRY PICKED information in his/her post is obvious, even through your valliant effort at humor regarding "sitting on Jesus' lap"
I doubt seriously that you know anything about religious faith, other than how to poke a stick in other peoples eye for having faith.

You are able to attack the information that is as much opnion as it is fact. The only two items you refence are not able to be proven, so you cry foul at the whole premise of Imus being a person worthy of sharing your planet.

really "dude", the little smiley thing doesn't make you seem any more credible. I would ask again, "what about the rest of the information in that post" ? However you have left me little doubt as to WHAT you are capable of discussing, and HOW you are capable of discussing it.

saddle up that high horse, and ride sally ride.

[Buzz Clik]

67. Exactly

The only two items you refence are not able to be proven, so you cry foul at the whole premise of Imus being a person worthy of sharing your planet.

If they aren't true or cannot be documented, they should not have been stated. If you are willing to strike those two items from the list, I'll move on to the others. If you insist on carrying on your line of argument, then I'll accept your concession.

[Firepit 462]

91. You are guilty of your own hypocrisy,

When you can... as you say "clearly demonstrate Don Imus will be sitting on Jesus' lap in heaven" get back to me.
You never used your little "sarcasim" thingy so that tells me you believe it to be true, you also never used your favorite little smiley thingy either so I am to assume it is no joke.

If it is just your opnion, then you should be able to prove it. See how annoying an argument can be with someone who won't converse or discuss, just poke? Your NEED for a concession gives your maturity level away. You are a very poor person for me to converse with and I'll not waste either of our time further, move on with whatever cranks your shaft.

like I said...ride sally ride.

[Wednesdays]

95. All this is pretty moot, now...

Now that we've got word that Imus has been canned, everywhere.

So, after all the rhetoric about riding a horse...looks like you're whipping on a carcass.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

36. hey, you stole my post !

[Firepit 462]

43. Thanks,

Your post made my morning. I only jump in and out of Democratic Underground during the day, but I have to say your post regarding this "Imus racial shockwave" is the only post I've read that isn't trying to promote hatred of the man, while only looking at the issue through one eye.

Everybody says stupid things that they wished they hadn't, and I believe the ones here that are calling for the destruction of Imus, also have past events that would leave them burning at the stake in the eyes of others. Hypocracy, as well as the annonimity of the internet breeds the mob mentality very well. The absence of a responce to your post sent the "Imus mob" on to a less informed target in my opnion, it's hard to promote disgust when confronted with facts.

Good for you.

[partylessinOhio]

52. Thank you for posting positives about Imus

even though you have "low post totals."

[Saturday]

22. At this very moment on CBS radio

Imus is doing his 18th ANNUAL telethon for 3 charities. He almost single handedly raised the death benefit for our soldiers, he was an outstanding spokesman for Autism as well as raising large amounts of money for the new rehab center in Texas for our Iraq veterans. You should really get the facts before you ask what he contributes (as if he did nothing).

[IronScorpio5]

18. You took the words out of my mouth.

1. hes not a racist
2.gangsta rap played on another cable news outlet is far worse
3. rev al and jj seem to have a problem with forgiveness except when it comes to them
4. the line was not said in anger but was said as a joke....albiet lousy
5.maybe society should understand that burying racial insensitivity will only allow it to fester.
6.and he HAS done more for all people without regard to color than the holier than thou al anf jj.
7.he blasted schrub over his handling of katraina more than anyone on tv i know of.

[Epiphany4z]

13. I have mixed feelings on this

Imus thing...never liked him...didn't watch unless the channel was left on from the night before and he got left on as back ground noise. I think freedom of speech is a tough issue..we don't always like what gets said but that is the price we pay.

that said...Imus wasn't fired for exercising his freedom speech he was fired for loosing sponsors...

I must say it would be nice to see few others like him step in there own piles...savage, limbaugh,Coutler,..ect..they have said far worse things...and will continue to do so until it causes sponsors to pull out.

[Fleshdancer]

16. If you were face to face with the Rutgers b-ball players....

would you be able to look them in the eye and tell them they should move on from the nasty remarks said about them on national television? Could you tell them that since people will always say nasty, stupid things then they should be ok with this?

What if someone said these remarks to a national audience about your daughter? Wife? Mother? What would be their reaction if you're response was "eh, it happens so get over it"?

If we're expected to defend the honor of those we love and care about, why not extend this to concept to other people in our society? Why not get angered when someone like Imus says something disgusting toward a group of women who have done absolutely no harm to him?

[Buzz Clik]

17. Thank you. This Imus love fest was making me ill.

[Fleshdancer]

24. I don't get it either

The notion that I should be ok with racist and sexist remarks is insane.

The other thing that bothers me is that people are expressing far more compassion and concern toward the asshole who made the remark and saying nothing about the innocent women who were slammed and humiliated. Priorities anyone?

[LeftyFingerPop]

25. No, I didn't say that

Gloria,

I did not say that he should look them in the eye and tell them they should move on. I didn't say that they should be ok with this.

What I did say that he should bare his soul to them...essentially telling them whatever he felt he need ed to.

And if someone made those kind of remarks about a family member of mine, and the person apologized, I would be the one to decide whether I forgive him or not.

[pennylane100]

19. While Free Speech is a bedrock of our society

and he has the right to say whatever thoughts enter his muddled mind, he does not necessarily have the right to do so on publicly owned airwaves.

If the FCC can fine CBS thousands of dollars for showing a woman's breast in a half-time show of a football game because it offends decency standards, one would hope that the same standards would protect the young women of this country from the racist, sexist rantings of a addled brained shock jock.

He singled out an specific group of young women to harass and did it on the air waves we own, and for no other reason, he must go.

[Maine-ah]

20. I wonder why more people aren't calling for the heads of

more radio personalities that are like this. Why only Imus? (I've never really liked him anyway)BUT there's Howard Stern, who is seriously offensive... Rush Limpballs, someone here posted that he actually called someone a ni**er, I think he should have been canned on the whole MJF shit. Why-TF haven't people gone and picketed outside his office to get him canned? What about all the music out there that uses the same phrase that Imus used? There is even a song where the lyrics talk about urinating on a "ho". Whoopie Goldbergs production company is called One Ho Productions (she hung up on Opie and Anthony when they mentioned this, while they were discussing Imus)What about people like Carlos Mancia (not sure on spelling there)?

Why is it accepted that people can use racist phrases/words while talking about their own race? Mancia always calls Mexicans "beaners", for example.

and don't think that just because I'm white, I myself haven't been targeted. I lived a couple of years in South Florida, and I was called some pretty shitty stuff, and treated rather poorly as well, for no other reason than the fact that I am white and from the north.

I think that as long as all cultures/races see racism amongst themselves as acceptable, we will never rid ourselves of racism.

[annabanana]

23. He was fecklessly, heedlessly hurtful, There is no "joke" there.

To whom is this kind of name calling "funny"? Only to the insecure powerful. It is used to assert their power over the powerless. .(ok, less powerful) It is a move to subjugate. Nothing more, nothing less.

There is no "joke" there.

[LeftyFingerPop]

26. I agree, but

its kinda his right to make an ass of himself. and it concerns the Rutgers women, and no one else really.

[VelmaD]

27. a little education the right to free speech

Yes, Imus had the right to say what he said...but people who were offended have the right to say so as well. And his advertisers are under NO obligation to continue to pay for his offensive speech. This is how freedom of expression works. You can say whatever you want but you have to suck it up and take the consequences.

[LeftyFingerPop]

32. Thanks for the education

Thanks for the education Velma, but I have plenty of it already. My point is this...the consequences of his actions should be felt through a natural "culling of his herd" by people refusing to listen to him, and not by getting fired.

I would not feel this way if the man did not apologize, but he did. I think he is truly remorseful....and besides, he does more positive things in the helping of sick children than you or I will ever do.

So, let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

We tend to look at his words in a vacuum. Lets look at what this guy does before we judge so harshly.

[annabanana]

He has been talking like this (and apologizing) for years!

Does he get an infinite pass on this kind of speech?

[VelmaD]

38. yes, let's not look at his words in a vacuum...

but rather as a whole...you know, all the words he's said. This is not the first time he's made sexist or racist remarks on his show. It's not the second or the third or the fourth time. He has a long long history of being an insensitive horse's ass at best and a racist, sexist asshole at worst.

And why do you think the advertisers pulled out. Two reasons...people threastened not to buy their products, yes, but also because from the flack they were getting they knew these people would not be listening to Imus' show...hence decreasing the benefit from advertising on it. This is how "culling the herd" works.

You may think he's truly remorseful, but I'm reserving judgement given his history.

And you have no idea what I do so please don't compare my contribution to the world to Imus' without any facts. Thank you.

[LeftyFingerPop]

42. This is our problem.

THEY ARE WORDS!! We don't know his heart. But we can look at his actions, and they are largely honorable. We are judging a person over WORDS. So Velma, why don't you enlighten me on your charitable history then?

[VelmaD]

45. not that it's any of your business...

but I am a social worker and I have dedicated my working life to this point working in an agency that deals with the most at-risk kids in my state. And I can guaran-damn-tee you I've never called any of them what Imus called the women from Rutgers.

And words matter. Words are how we see the world. Words are how we shape the world. If words didn't matter our founders wouldn't have put freedom of speech FIRST in the Bill of Rights.

And words say a lot about what's in a person's heart. When someone says racist and sexist things and then claims they aren't that way in their heart...it's difficult to believe them.

[LeftyFingerPop]

46. Ok Velma

Here's my point...What you do is certainly honorable, and I commend you. BUT, IMUS has done more, probably because he has the resources to do so. What he does is more important to me than what he says, especially if he is truly remorseful.

Also Velma....you say words say a lot about what is in a persons heart?

OK....I am a stinky purple monkey with herpes. Do you think that is REALLY what is in my heart??

[VelmaD]

47. ok...you have descended to the level...

of the juvenile and idiotic...and that does say something about you.

One last comment and I'm done. Words are an action. They don't just magically happen. We chose to speak. What Imus did was insult a group of young women for not living up to his racist and sexist ideals of what women should look like.

I'm done.

[LeftyFingerPop]

48. Not idiotic at all

I am not a purple monkey, and I don't have herpes...even though I said so. And Imus is not a racist.

And while I'm at it, don't feel the need to initiate your discussion with me by providing me with some unsolicited "education".

[Neshanic]

61. I bet you hear "thats G**" fifty times a day, Very unPC.

[VelmaD]

64. not really...

because it's not tolerated

[iverglas]

93. words are deeds

THEY ARE WORDS!! We don't know his heart. But we can look at his actions, and they are largely honorable. We are judging a person over WORDS.

If I may paraphrase Redd Foxx, who 'we', philboy?

We don't know his heart? Who cares? Who's judging Imus? I don't even see VelmaD doing it; in response to your call for us to look at what this guy does before we judge so harshly, she did just that -- she looked at his history of doing -- of spewing filth -- not at what's in his heart. Seems to me it's the people piling up good deeds under his name, not the people objecting to his evil deeds, who are trying to make this about who he is.

We're not arguing here about whether Don Imus should eat (a) chocolates in heaven or (b) shovel coal in hell. And we're not talking about him or anyone being charged, tried and sentenced for saying something. We're talking about whether his words should continue to be broadcast.

Nothing else that Imus does, and nothing that he is, has the slightest relevance to that question. It might have to the gods, and it might have to a court deciding sentence, and it might have to someone deciding whether to divorce him or invite him to a party. But it is simply not relevant to the question of whether he should continue to have the very lucrative opportunity to occupy the public airwaves.

He is perfectly free to go on hosting sick kids and raising money for sick kids and whatever other charming things he does. He is also perfectly free to go on spouting misogyinist racist shit for the rest of his life, to anyone who wants to listen.

A lot of the public don't want to listen -- and don't want the airwaves they own and licence to corporations, which use them for the benefit of advertisers, to be used for this purpose.

The words spoken by a Don Imus and broadcast on TV and radio have effects. They have direct effects, like humiliating people who have done nothing to deserve humiliation from him or anyone else, and they have broader effects when they ripple out into the world and join up with the ripples created by all of the other misogyny and bigotry floating around out here.

If anyone is condemning him as a person, that is no more relevant to the issue at hand than anyone else's paeans of praise to him. Just one of those personal opinion thingies that people love to share.

If what Imus says doesn't violate laws or regulations, then it's up to the people who broadcast what he says to decide whether to keep doing it. No one is under any obligation to support the decision they make by continuing to buy the products of the advertisers who make the broadcasts possible. Boycotting those products, and calling publicly for the broadcasters to put an end to the filth, has nothing to do with free speech; it is in fact about the only way we members of the public consumers get to vote about a lot of really very important things in our societies.

I care what is in someone's heart only if it offers an explanation of what s/he did. If a child abuser was an abused child or is an abused spouse, or if a person who kills another person is suffering from delusions, I want to know before I "judge" him/her. Nothing that Imus has ever done offers me the slightest insight into why he said what he said, let alone any reason to excuse it. If the broadcasters who pay him impose no consequences for what he did, those ripples are just going to keep spreading and growing. Shaming Imus is necessary, just as taking away drunk drivers' licences is necessary, if we don't want people to do what they did, even if what they did didn't "hurt" anyone.

Imus is losing an opportunity that only a tiny fraction of the population ever has. Most bigots have to be content to spew their filth in their own living rooms, and the worst consequence they might suffer is losing the small audience of their friends and neighbours. Imus had the opportunity to do it continent-wide, and he used the opportunity he had. His wrongdoing was on a very large scale, and so is the consequence he has incurred.

He was given the opportunity, it was his choice what he did with it. Nobody owes him a bully pulpit and a big income, no matter what else he does and no matter what is in his heart.

And by the way, someone who says its kinda his right to make an ass of himself. and it concerns the Rutgers women, and no one else really in a discussion of whether someone's words should be broadcast really probably does need a little education about that free speech concept. Or maybe in logic, since someone's right to make an ass of him/herself has precisely nothing to do what the public should tolerate on radio and television.

And I do wonder how someone so anxious that we all consider what is in one person's heart could exhibit such supreme disinterest in what is in the hearts of the very many people who really were affected by what he said. Or how someone who lives in the US could purport to think that racism and misogyny on television are the concern of no one but the named victim in each instance ...

[cboy4]

29. You need to do a little more research on this man before you

come to such a broad level of forgiveness I believe.

He has a long, long history of toying with the proverbial cobra and he finally got bitten.

On the air today, he admitted he's "been running his mouth for 30 years."

You might read this article. It is an eye-opener: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18062462/site/newsweek/

[bluedog]

31. remember when Congress changed "French Fries"

to freedom fries?......The action insulted the entire county of France/////
why?....because France stood up the the US.


France has pressed the United Nations to give weapons inspectors more time in Iraq, saying the U.S. and British-led move to war is premature.

Its stance has angered some U.S. lawmakers.

********Imus also insulted a race......did Congress not do the same thing?

[LeftHander]

34. No we can't move on and stay the same....

We have too many problems to continue to tolerate and accept racial slurs as "jokes" and entertainment...

[LeftyFingerPop]

37. Then don't accept them.

Stop watching IMUS. Simple as that. In the meantime, go out and police everyone in the world to see if they ever made a racist comment. If they have, make sure you call them a racist, because you know what is in their heart.

In the meantime, the world turns to shit because we have lost the elephants by going after the peanuts.

[LeftHander]

41. Address all avenues of racism...

THe peanuts, the elephant, the elephant hunters, the multi-national corps taking away the habitat, educating people to like elephants and treat them fairly...

etc...etc...

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LeftyFingerPop]

58. Well...

I tend to concentrate on other things rather than my post totals. But thanks for the warm welcome anyway LOL.

[Buzz Clik]

63. You just happen to be very passionate about Imus.

How nice. At least you've found a calling.

[LeftyFingerPop]

65. Not at all

I could really care less about Imus at this point.

What does concern me greatly, however, is the larger issue that we tend to let mere words absorb our valuable time. And saying that words are more than mere words doesn't cut it with me.

What DOES cut it with me is people coming home in body bags, or with severe psychological problems, or with missing limbs.

That is the kind of stuff that bothers me...not the fact that Don Imus called someone a ho and now that is all that is on the news.

Edit: "more than mere words"

[Buzz Clik]

68. "I could really care less about Imus at this point."

That makes two of us. But that wasn't the point of this thread, was it.

[LeftyFingerPop]

73. No is was not

The point of the thread was to illustrate that we have much heavier things to worry about than an apologetic man who messed up badly.

[left is right]

77. Your sanctimony moves me (to puke)

How dare you infer that righteous indignation over hateful and bigoted words means that we are any less outraged over the injustices of a sham war. We have the capability of being sickened by unjust war, offensive radio talk, and growing repuke scandals all at the same time without a temporary focus on one diminishing our concern for the others.
For the past decade we have swallowed hard and tried to ignore the abuses or rightwing radio personalities, hoping that people would come to their sense and turn it off. That has not happened and quite frankly it would never work. With Imus' latest offense, a whole lot of people decided, seemingly independent of each other that they just weren't going to sit quietly by and listen to that offensive garbage anymore. And, miracles of miracles we caught the attention of corporate sponsors, who not known for altruistic natures, decided they had better listen for once because this uproar would affect their bottom lines. And of course, we sound a bit self-congratulatory over this, the causes of reason and sanity have had precious few victories over the last several years.
My personal hope--this is just the first of many contract cancellations; I am sick to death of the coulters, limbaughs, becks, and wieners and I vote with my pocket book.

[LeftyFingerPop]

81. Tell you what then

First, don't puke on your shoes.

Second, he has the fucking right to say whatever he wants, just as much as I have the right to call him an asshole for saying it...and I do.

Racism is NOT the issue. HATE is the issue. You can choose not to listen to him, as I choose to do. You can choose to educate on why it is wrong perhaps, instead of thinking that your outrage will solve anything.

Education, NOT OUTRAGE, will eventually reduce all the hate speech in the world to mere drivel. In the meantime, your "outrage" will just spawn more "outrage"...and nothing will get solved. Why do you think we still have a problem with hate speech since the beginning of time? Because we approach it wrong, that is why. We need to ignore it, live our lives kindly, do the right thing, and make it laughable.

Perhaps African-Americans have the right idea when using the N word with each other. Perhaps when I call my friend a "fat bastard"...he can take it light heartedly...especially when he knows I would give my life for him.

ACTION NOT WORDS ARE IMPORTANT...AND I LOOK AT IMUS' ACTIONS, NOT HIS WORDS. To think otherwise means we will be forever on internet chat boards bitching about what someone said...and nothing will change.

[IronScorpio5]

89. OUCH.

This topic does bring out the worst in people.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

40. Sorry, not me.

[Buzz Clik]

56. Eh. An outlier.

What's your excuse?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

74. What's yours?

for being so holier than thou ?

[Buzz Clik]

79. good gawd. I condemn a racist swine, and suddenly I'm "holier than thou"?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

82. There is no one that is "not condeming" his remarks. The difference

is you are missing the reconciliation and forgiveness part.

[Buzz Clik]

84. I didn't miss it.

How many apologies of his do we accept before we recognize that his words weren't simply jokes or misstatements. He's a racist pig. You want to forgive him, then go ahead.

By the way, this thread has nothing to do with whether or not Imus is truly sorry. Absolutely nothing.

[partylessinOhio]

51. Not me either.

What do "post totals" have to do with whether Imus should have lost his employment?

I am not an a$$hat!

[Buzz Clik]

59. You're arguing a different point.

Imus is suspended because his parent company was economically squeezed. It has nothing to do with your opinion or mine. Without pressure from the $pon$or$, Imus would continue to be his darling self and totally oblivious to criticism. And I would still never listen to him.

[Balbus]

53. You might want to stay away from the Imus threads for a while.

Every time you post something you have your ass handed to you. And I say this having no horse in this race whatsoever. Just trying to offer you some sound advise. Take it or leave it.

[Buzz Clik]

60. You flatter yourself, and undeservedly so.

This isn't about winning and losing. At least for the adults here.

[IronScorpio5]

76. Sad but true...

good advice

[americanstranger]

50. Oh, come on. He made his bed.

He gets to lie in it.

As has been pointed out ad infinitum, this is not his first brush with on-air racism. He's made a career of it.

Let him go back to his ranch and sit on the porch with Fred and Kinky and make his 'jokes' all day long.

He's been pushing the envelope for years, and he finally pushed it too far.

Words have consequences.

- as

[Spazito]

57. You might want to read up on the guy you are defending...

He is a despicable racist misogynist and always has been. The only difference is that, for once, he has been called to account for his reprehensible behavior. It is well past time, imo.

Out of Imus's Bigotry, a Zero Tolerance for Hate

snip

Imus is the one who said in 1995 of Gwen Ifill, an accomplished, award-winning black journalist of incredible dignity and grace: "Isn't the Times wonderful. . . . It lets the cleaning lady cover the White House."

It's Imus who called William C. Rhoden, the veteran Times sports columnist, "a quota hire." Of course, the work, accomplishments or stature of their targets do not matter to Imus and his stooges. He makes fun of former attorney general Janet Reno's Parkinson's disease.

So "nappy-headed hos" wasn't some weak moment of great exception on the Imus show. In 1997, during a "60 Minutes" profile, Mike Wallace confronted Imus and a former producer who quoted Imus as saying he'd hired a staffer to "do nigger jokes." When I mentioned that earlier this week on ESPN's Pardon the Interruption, Imus responded on his show that it simply did not happen -- though I see it in a 2000 issue of the Columbia Journalism Review and had a producer access it through a transcript (also the audio version) on National Public Radio.

Wallace: "You've told Tom Anderson, the producer, in your car coming home that Bernard McGuirk is there to do nigger jokes.'"

Imus: "Well, I've . . . I never use that word."

Wallace: "Tom?"

Tom Anderson: "I'm right here."

Imus: "Did I use that word?

Anderson: "I recall you using that word."

Imus: "Oh, okay, well then I used that word, but I mean . . . of course that was an off-the-record conversation . . ."

Wallace: "The hell it was."

more

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...

His "apology" isn't worth the spit it took to mouth it, imo.

[Buzz Clik]

62. Exactly. Excellent post.

[Horse with no Name]

69. Hate speech is a funny thing.

For some, they listen and then if they don't like it, they simply turn it off. No harm no foul. They can even justify it if asked and make excuses.
For others, it is a VALIDATION of their own stances that EMPOWERS them to go the next step...ie beat up the gay kid, rape the woman, burn crosses on lawns.
THAT is why this is important and why it matters.
Don Imus knows better. He really does. But he said it anyway.

[NoGOPZone]

70. You may be

'moving on' sooner than you think.

[LeftyFingerPop]

75. Meaning? n/t

[Booster]

71. Just my opinion, but a man who would say such a stupid, stupid

thing should not be talking to millions of people. There are thousands of smart people just waiting to take his job and I say give them a chance.

[Marr]

72. You don't get to tell other people what should offend them. By the way,

Rush, Savage, Hannity, O'Reilly, and all the other right-wing hate merchants should've been fired long before Imus. They've been doing much worse, daily, for years.

[Bluebear]

78. Good, when Imus makes Dago Wop jokes, we'll call on you to forgive him and move on

"AND THEN WE NEED TO MOVE ON.".... my favorite line from American Beauty: "You don't get to tell me what to do, ever again."

[LeftyFingerPop]

83. Well bluebear....

I guess he can call me a dago or wop all he wants and it would be water off a ducks back. Seriously...the terms do not bother me, and they have not since I was about 12 years old. So you see, there would be nothing to forgive. It is meaningless what Imus says about Italians...get my point? There where always be someone who doesn't like Italians, who doesn't like Blacks, Irish. whatever. If he he truly is racist, then he is just another in a long line. So what? Educate on why he is wrong, live your life well, and move on.

[Bluebear]

85. I get your point but I won't stand for it.

Nobody should be able to call 10 talented young women barely out of high school whores on national TV and get away with it.

Nobody should call you a wop or me a fag or her a whore. And finally a powerful media figure suffered the consequences of there actions and I am thrilled.

[LeftyFingerPop]

87. I understand where you are coming from.

Peace my friend.

[Bluebear]

88. Likewise

[IronScorpio5]

80. K & R

.

[iamthebandfanman]

86. indeed

free speech is a double edged sword.

if people dont want to listen to Imus ( i never have personally ) then they dont have to anymore.
i do think its appropriate to suspend him, but i dont think he should lose his job unless its simply because people dont want to listen to him anymore.
so many people have said way way worse things on the radio, TV, movies, and music but they arent being crucified for it.

Suspension = YES
Crucificion = NO

[pacalo]

90. Initially, I felt the same way as you.

For a little context, I was thin until the age of 30 when my metabolism slowed down, got married, then pregnant; I was thin at a time when it wasn't "in" to be thin. In fact, down here in South Louisiana where the food is so good it's literally beyond compare, you'll see a lot more overweight people than thin. I wouldn't relive my young school years for all the money in the world, yet surprisingly, I dated football players when I got to college. My self-esteem was so low that no compliment or attention from the greatest looking guy would affect how I felt about myself inside. I do know what black people must feel about the treatment they must get, but I had no organizations looking out for me when my feelings got hurt, my self-esteem shattered at a vulnerable period in my life. I learned to toughen up & it made me stronger. I'm more able than most people to let harmful words roll off my shoulders & I'm at my best under pressure.

That said, I agree with you that some things get blown way out of proportion, but the Imus situation has put a spotlight on hate talk in the media. It's an opportunity to shine a light on the Rush Limbaughs, Ann Coulters, Laura (Whatever-her-name-is), Sean Hannitys, Pat Robertsons, & those sponsors who pay for their time to turn neighbor against neighbor. It's wrong & I'm glad that Imus got fired because it sets a clear standard for those who urge people to pick up their torches & pitchforks against those who simply have different opinions, a different culture, or a different color or lifestyle.

Let common sense & common decency shine a gigantic light on these hatemongers.

[IronScorpio5]

92. wow...

"Let common sense & common decency shine a gigantic light on these hatemongers."

and imus is a HATEMONGER?? REALLY??

[pacalo]

96. I think you just did.

Here's what I wrote in regard to hatemongers:

"It's an opportunity to shine a light on the Rush Limbaughs, Ann Coulters, Laura (Whatever-her-name-is), Sean Hannitys, Pat Robertsons, & those sponsors who pay for their time to turn neighbor against neighbor. It's wrong & I'm glad that Imus got fired because it sets a clear standard for those who urge people to pick up their torches & pitchforks against those who simply have different opinions, a different culture, or a different color or lifestyle."

[youthere]

94. Imus has every right to say what he wants...

Just like I have a right to complain about it to his sponsors and employer.