Look... the final bill WILL have a public option

[scheming daemons]

Don't pay much attention to what comes out of the senate... the house bill will have a public option.


What REALLY matters is what comes out of the committee that merges the senate and house bills.


And Howard Dean is 100% correct in saying that THAT bill WILL have a public option.


...then the only question is getting enough Senators to pass it. If it is done in reconciliation, then we only need 50. If not, we'll need 60.

When Harry Reid does a whip count in the Senate, if he doesn't think there's 60, they'll do the bill as part of reconciliation and go for the 50 (with Biden as tie-breaker).


Then... before Christmas... Obama will sign it.

Merry Christmas, America.

[fulllib]

1. Thank you!

This is the summary that I have seen in a few places, but far too few believe it yet.

The House bill will have it; the Senate is gathering votes, but as long as it is in the House bill when it goes to Committee, then it has a good chance. Then we will find out exactly what Obama had in mind for Rahm!

[natrat]

2. hpefully it does and hopefully they don't pull a fast one, but if history is the judge...

[scheming daemons]

5. If "history was the judge".... A mixed-race man with a muslim name would never have been elected

We're in uncharted waters here.

[scheming daemons]

6. Dupe

[Winterblues]

3. It is a bit more complicated than that

Reconciliation is about the Budget. Anything that isn't specifically Budget Related will be excluded as it would take a sixty vote count to allow it, so the Bill would be stripped of most things in it.

[scheming daemons]

7. Since the start-up costs for created a public option ARE budget related, it will be in

[WeDidIt]

4. I'm certainly feeling more optimistic about it now

Sebelius withdrew her comments from Sunday.

:thumbsup:

[scheming daemons]

9. 30 minutes ago you were "DONE WITH OBAMA"..... you're a freaking yoyo, dude

Wait until there's a final bill.


If it isn't what you want, *THEN* throw Obama under the bus in '12.


You're getting hung up in the sausage-making process and letting each step along the way piss you off.

[WeDidIt]

11. If everybody just sat back without outrage

the public option would already be dead.

On Sunday it was in ICU on life support and it didn't look good.

Today, it's once again conscious and may make a recovery.

The truth shall set you free, but first it shall piss you off.

The truth of the matter is, if we don't get outraged, the fuckers who stand up talkign shit about "death panels" are going to have their way. They already proved that by getting a good provision about end of life planning removed from the bill over a bullshit lie.

Get outraged, or get the fuck out of the way of those who do get outraged because it will only be via outrage that we win this thing.

[scheming daemons]

13. There's a difference between getting "outraged" and "Dump Obama in 2012!!111!!!!"

The difference, to me, is in the maturity level displayed in each case.

[WeDidIt]

15. You learned nothing from 2002 and 2004

Reward politicians for failure and they will continue to fail.

Demonstrate you are willing to punish politicians for failure and you will get results.

The primary is the strongest tool in the activist's arsenal, made incredibly powerful via internet organization. Lieberman was a first step and a flexing of muscles. That was not entirely successful, but it put the fear of activists into EVERY Democratic politician.

The Obama adminsitration was feeling the heat. They sent out "administration officials" to walk back the trial balloon. That failed. They have now sent out Sebelius to walk it back.

PErsonally, I hope that fails too. I WANT Obama to declare any HCR bill without a public option DOA.

[scheming daemons]

16. You learned nothing from 1994.

Punishing politicians who are WITH YOU in 80% of the cases results in ending up with government run by those who are with you 0% of the time.

[WeDidIt]

17. I damned well did learn from 94!

Those who stabbed the base in the back by killing HCR in 94 were not punished by the Democratic base.

That opened the way for REpublicans.

[scheming daemons]

19. Democrats were abandoned in droves.....

... and that led to Newt's "revolution".


Thanks... but I'm sticking with the mostly-good guys this time.

[WeDidIt]

21. BINGO!

The Democrats who stabbed Clinton in the back faced no possibility of primary challenges to hold them in check on HCR. Instead, they backed their corporate masters

Many of them lost in the GE, opening up a Republcian Congress leading to every Democratic debacle all the way to 2006 when it was turned around. Those who were in favor of HCR also lost because the insruance companies backed their GE opponents.

IT TOOK 12 YEARS TO TURN IT AROUND!

Now fast forward to 2006.

Small donations from vast numbers of real people started making a real difference.

Real progressives competed in previosly impossible districts.

One odiously corporate owned Democratic Senator was actually defeated in a primary by a Netroots candidate!

Real consequences for failing to do the bidding of the people began to be faced by politicians.

Now is nto the time to stop that. In fact, it's time to ratchet up the heat!

[Laelth]

25. You make a very good argument, WeDidIt.

Cheers! :toast:

:dem:

-Laelth

[dionysus]

18. i am certain your tantrum OP on DU is what will make the public option succeed.

:rofl:

[Winterblues]

23. What is the purpose you post on DU?

Just to make fun of people or to affect the Debate?

[dionysus]

24. when someone posts "i am voting for someone else in 2012!!1!!1" to

"boy how relieved i am" in about 30 minutes... then yes, i am making fun of them.

there is nothing to "debate" here. there is no actual bill yet. yet people are wailing and gnashing and whining to a ridiculous point. chicken little shit.

[kath]

8. A "public option" that covers maybe 9 or 10 million people by TWENTY-NINETEEN??

Such an "option" is a pitiful joke...

[scheming daemons]

10. Wow... a time-traveler who actually seen the final bill....

Can you tell me the score of the next Super Bowl?

[bertman]

12. Save your sarcasm, scheming daemons. The implementation of the elusive public option

is now incremental and wouldn't even start until 2013. If you can assure us that will change to immediate implementation (say by the end of 2010) we'll feel much better.

Perhaps you haven't noticed that the "reform" is being sliced, diced, pruned, and whacked on an almost daily basis since the committees started putting together their versions. There is not a single version that has not suffered from the surgical scalpel. And, of course, the surgery is being performed by skilled Republican AND Democratic surgeons.

[scheming daemons]

14. Starting in 2013 is fine with me. We've been waiting 65 years for this.

If we have to wait 3 more, that beats the hell out of what we've had the past several decades.

[slipslidingaway]

22. Truman - November 19, 1945

All of these baby steps have led to the build up huge insurance companies which now get prominent seats at the table in all discussions.

Timeline of Health Care
http://www.pbs.org/healthcarecrisis/history.htm

Current estimates are that Maybe 10 million people will be enrolled in a public option plan by 2019, most of the subsidies paid for with tax dollars will go to the For Profit Insurance companies and the plan will still leave millions without health insurance.

So the tax payers will contribute to the profits of insurance companies who then turn around and use the money to lobby against a national system.

:crazy:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6319002&mesg_id=6319002

"FOURTH: PREPAYMENT OF MEDICAL COSTS

Everyone should have ready access to all necessary medical, hospital and related services.

I recommend solving the basic problem by distributing the costs through expansion of our existing compulsory social insurance system. This is not socialized medicine.


...A system of required prepayment would not only spread the costs of medical care, it would also prevent much serious disease. Since medical bills would be paid by the insurance fund, doctors would more often be consulted when the first signs of disease occur instead of when the disease has become serious. Modern hospital, specialist and laboratory services, as needed, would also become available to all, and would improve the quality and adequacy of care. Prepayment of medical care would go a long way toward furnishing insurance against disease itself, as well as against medical bills.

Such a system of prepayment should cover medical, hospital, nursing and laboratory services. It should also cover dental care--as fully and for as many of the population as the available professional personnel and the financial resources of the system permit...

...People should remain free to choose their own physicians and hospitals. The removal of financial barriers between patient and doctor would enlarge the present freedom of choice. The legal requirement on the population to contribute involves no compulsion over the doctor's freedom to decide what services his patient needs. People will remain free to obtain and pay for medical service outside of the health insurance system if they desire, even though they are members of the system; just as they are free to send their children to private instead of to public schools, although they must pay taxes for public schools...

We are a rich nation and can afford many things. But ill-health which can be prevented or cured is one thing we cannot afford..."

[JaneQPublic]

20. I appreciate your optimistic, can-do attitude, however...

...I still plan to call my elected reps over my lunch hour today and urge them to (continue to) support the Public Option.

They're certainly getting an earful from the RW; we need to make sure they hear from the LW,too.