Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Healthcare companies profits according to yahoo finance.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 01:20 PM
Original message
Healthcare companies profits according to yahoo finance.
Edited on Mon Aug-10-09 01:25 PM by Joanne98
I put the companies in a portfolio and then pulled up maximum charts. I took the first price and calculated the profits. Here's what I got......

Symbol Last Trade Change Volume Shrs Holdings Value Day's Value Change Price Paid Gain/Loss Related Info
- -

HUM 1:56pm ET 34.35 0.85 1,621,847 100 3436.000000$3,435.00 86.000061 $85.00 2.54% 9.41 2495.000000 $2,494.00 265.04%
-

AET 1:56pm ET 27.08 0.11 1,742,976 100 2708.000000$2,708.00 -11.000061 $11.00 0.40% 2.74 2434.000000 $2,434.00 888.32%
- -

CAH 1:56pm ET 33.78 0.21 681,462 100 3378.000000$3,378.00 20.999908 $21.00 0.63% 1.28 3250.000000 $3,250.00 2,539.06%
- -

WLP 1:56pm ET 51.52 0.12 1,913,333 100 5153.000000$5,152.00 12.999725 $12.00 0.23% 21.00 3053.000000 $3,052.00 145.33%
- -

AMGN 1:56pm ET 60.35 0.14 3,363,768 100 6036.000000$6,035.00 -13.000107 $14.00 0.23% 0.11 6025.000000 $6,024.00 54,763.64%
- -

CVH 1:56PM ET 22.00 0.14 865,831 100 2200.000000$2,200.00 -13.999939 $14.00 0.63% 3.33 1867.000000 $1,867.00 560.66%
- -

UNH 1:56pm ET 27.02 0.51 4,689,767 100 2702.000000$2,702.00 51.000023 $51.00 1.92% 0.30 2672.000000 $2,672.00 8,906.67%


Wellpoint










Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. And the bastards claim that their costs are bankrupting them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Amgn is really hurting they only made 54,763.64%
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
2. All of that trading and profit is blood money on the American People's health,
profiting on our illness and injury, contributing nothing to health care; while actually taking money from it. That system is corrupt and dysfunctional.

Thanks for the thread, Joanne.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
4. Here's United Health Group


UNH 2:16PM ET 26.91 0.40 4,892,227 100 2691.000000$2,691.00 39.999962 $40.00 1.49% 0.30 2661.000000 $2,661.00 8,870.00%
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
melm00se Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
5. Confused
Edited on Mon Aug-10-09 02:14 PM by melm00se
it looks like you are tracking stock price and deriving the cost to the health care system from there.

wouldn't it be easier to do this:

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=HUM&annual
HUM
net profit for 2008 = $647,154,000 with a net profit margin of: 2.2%

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=AET&annual
AET
net profit: 1,384,100,000, net profit margin: 3.85%

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=CAH&annual
CAH
net profit $1,300,600,000, net profit margin: 1.23%

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=WLP&annual
WLP
net profit: $2,490,700,000, net profit: 4.00%

etc.

if you are looking for the actual cost to the actual health care system (IOW, how much bloat do they add to the system and what the savings would be if they were cut out), you would be better served if you look at their gross (pre-cost) profit and their net profits. Somewhere between the 2 is the true impact.

Take Wellpoint as an example (using their income statement: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=WLP&annual ):

their total top line revenue for 2008 was $61,251,100,000, from their you subtract $57,658,900,000 or the total costs to run the business: claims paid (which is going to be the bulk of that), employee costs, benefits, facilities costs, infrastructure costs and the like. This leaves a gross profit of $3,592,200,000 out of which you deduct Interest expense ($469,800,000) and income taxes ($631,700,000), leaving a net profit of $2,490,700,000.

now, of course, come of these costs are redundant, company to company, which a public option would, if I fully understand the public option correctly, eliminate but the vast majority of the costs would still be in paying claims so eliminating Wellpoint out of the mix would net the health care system somewhere in the $3-4 billion range and (because I don't have that much time at lunch) assuming that you stretch that across the 7 companies you have listed, that would be an annual savings of between $21-28 billion to the system.

How much would that impact the system? the total impact would be between 0.9% and 1.2% savings per year. (US health care expenditure in 2008 was forecast to be $2.4 trillion). those savings would disappear in less than 1 year with the projected growth rates of health care costs.

I am not certain that the insurance companies are the central problem here (sorry Senator Schumer). Hospitals (IIRC ~30% of the expenditure) and doctors (IIRC 15% of the total expenditure) are a lot larger than the insurance companies.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
orwell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Great post...
...I have been seeing similar numbers myself.

Gross profits at the drug companies far exceed those of the health insurance industry. Some of those numbers are rather eye popping. There are definitely significant savings to be had by pooling drug purchases and looking at drug patent laws that are essentially giveaways to the pharmaceutical industry.

I think people get confused because the top line sales of health insurance companies are so large. These companies take in tens of billions of dollars a year. So if they report billions in profits, it sounds large unless you look at the profits as a percentage of sales.

We have all been made aware that some pretty exorbitant salaries are hidden in the health insurance companies' costs. But that being said, even if the top executives worked for more modest compensation the total effect on health care costs would be negligible.

Some real costs come from the need to manage chronic conditions like diabetes and heart disease which are in many cases entirely preventable with lifestyle changes. There is also a lot of defensive medicine practiced in this country where tests or procedures are ordered more to protect the doctor's liability than the patient's health. And unfortunately, even though we are loathe to mention it, a significant portion of your total health care dollar will be spent in the last 6 months of your life. This is another issue that needs to be addressed.

This is a very complex problem that does not have simple answers. That is why it is so easy to demagogue.

Thanks again for your post.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. That's only for a three year period.
Edited on Mon Aug-10-09 02:44 PM by Joanne98
I wanted to see how much the stock price went up since listed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
melm00se Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. I am not sure what valid conclusion
you would draw from that.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Give me a break already, posted profit is a farce
There is no doubt much being hidden in the books. Board members and upper managements total benefits package would be interesting :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
melm00se Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. executive compensation
for Wellpoint is here:
http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/snaps...

you can get detailed info by reading the proxy statements.

http://ir.wellpoint.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=130104&p=irol-s...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
abumbyanyothername Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Fail
Providers indicate that around 15-30% of their costs are insurance claims related.

Insurers costs include not only profit, but exorbitant executive salaries, advertising, something called, uh . . .governmental affairs (loosely translates as "bribes"), etc. all of which would fall away under single payer.

I could go on.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
melm00se Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. looking at WLP's detailed financial statements
(to stay consistent here and which can be viewed here: http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/irol/13/13010... )

their "benefit expense" is 77% of their total operating revenue. their SGA (sales, general and administration costs - this is where salaries are accounted for) is 14% of their total operating revenue.

So I am not sure where you are getting 15-30% number. Can you share a link that shows to make sure that I am not misreading their financial statements?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
abumbyanyothername Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-10-09 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. You are reading the wrong set of statements
Doctors and hospitals claim that their payment processing departments are 15% of costs. Also, I am not sure that front line salaries go into SGA .. .I'm not sure they don't, I just know that in manufacturing line labor is a part of CGS.

Look here:

http://www.timesnews.net/article.php?id=9015187


"In the past year, they have endorsed single-payer as a legitimate, if not preferable option. I estimate that my overhead would drop 15 percent immediately with single-payer. Doctors and hospitals commit substantial overhead costs to keep up with multiple carriers and their denials and varying benefit packages. It seems hospitals employ more billing clerks than registered nurses. On the insurance side, Medicare spends three percent on administrative overhead while private insurers spend from 15-27 percent additionally on marketing, shareholder profits, and salaries and bonuses that can individually exceed $10 million a year for each of their executives. It is estimated that over $350 billion would be saved by moving from our current system to an improved Medicare-for-all system."

That's 15% out of the Dr. bill and 15% out of the insurance cost.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Jul 22nd 2014, 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC